Is/Was/Would Earth be Heaven?

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GreekGameManiac

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#1 GreekGameManiac
Member since 2010 • 6439 Posts

So,was Earth,ever some kind of "heaven"?

I.e. bfr we polluted it.

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undergroundLPx

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#2 undergroundLPx
Member since 2003 • 710 Posts

Interesting proposition. Also why do we think the after life involves an spiritual dimension? This may be hell for all we know and we could be preparing for the "real life" as more advanced beings - I mean, think about it, we're pretty **** limited mind and ability wise.

I just went on a little journey there but I like to talk about possibiities like those. I don't know what else to say really.

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Kevlar101

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#3 Kevlar101
Member since 2011 • 6316 Posts
Is/was/would there be a way to make people stop making these fvcking stupid religion threads?
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GreekGameManiac

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#4 GreekGameManiac
Member since 2010 • 6439 Posts

Is/was/would there be a way to make people stop making these fvcking stupid religion threads?Kevlar101

Good job Kevlar,you can apparently read ppl's minds!

>_>

Damnit man,i hate religions!

I never said ANYTHING about religions.

Don't just assume!

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mindstorm

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#5 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts
Ever heard of the Garden of Eden? Many within Christianity put such a distinguishment between earth and heaven that they think of eternal life as being an ethereal existence in an unimaginable place. However, I am very much of the conviction that the good news of Christianity is less about going to heaven but is more about the restoration of this earth. What should have been in the Garden of Eden will be true of all of the earth after the return of Jesus Christ.
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soulless4now

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#6 soulless4now
Member since 2003 • 41388 Posts

There's no such thing.

It's really Candyland.

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Blue-Sky

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#7 Blue-Sky
Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

Heaven is cultural construct and doesn't exist.

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Kevlar101

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#8 Kevlar101
Member since 2011 • 6316 Posts

Heaven doesn't exist.

Blue-Sky
you cannot prove that, so why are you saying "It does not exist" as if you know if for a fact? You dont know it for a fact. I am an Agnostic-Atheist, that means that I dont personally believe in god but I accept that idea that a god might exist because the existence of Heaven or a god cannot be proven nor disproven.
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supa_badman

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#9 supa_badman
Member since 2008 • 16714 Posts

No.

If we define heaven as painless and harmonious and perpetually happiness and figure if Earth was ever this way? Whatever man, tell it to the dinosaurs.

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tocool340

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#11 tocool340
Member since 2004 • 21591 Posts
It always seemed closer to hell than a heaven....
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konvikt_17

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#12 konvikt_17
Member since 2008 • 22378 Posts

Kevlar

Is/was/would there be a way to make people stop making these fvcking stupid religion threads?Kevlar101

what are you doing?

Kevlar

you cannot prove that, so why are you saying "It does not exist" as if you know if for a fact? You dont know it for a fact. I am an Agnostic-Atheist, that means that I dont personally believe in god but I accept that idea that a god might exist because the existence of Heaven or a god cannot be proven nor disproven.Kevlar101

Stahp!!

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wis3boi

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#13 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

Kevlar

[QUOTE="Kevlar101"]Is/was/would there be a way to make people stop making these fvcking stupid religion threads?konvikt_17

what are you doing?

Kevlar

you cannot prove that, so why are you saying "It does not exist" as if you know if for a fact? You dont know it for a fact. I am an Agnostic-Atheist, that means that I dont personally believe in god but I accept that idea that a god might exist because the existence of Heaven or a god cannot be proven nor disproven.Kevlar101

Stahp!!

tumblr_mapw63HsU71rya6c4o1_1280.jpg

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Kevlar101

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#14 Kevlar101
Member since 2011 • 6316 Posts

[QUOTE="konvikt_17"]

Kevlar

[QUOTE="Kevlar101"]

what are you doing?

Kevlar

[QUOTE="Kevlar101"] you cannot prove that, so why are you saying "It does not exist" as if you know if for a fact? You dont know it for a fact. I am an Agnostic-Atheist, that means that I dont personally believe in god but I accept that idea that a god might exist because the existence of Heaven or a god cannot be proven nor disproven.wis3boi

Stahp!!

tumblr_mapw63HsU71rya6c4o1_1280.jpg

Smartasses :P
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Agent-Zero

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#15 Agent-Zero
Member since 2009 • 6198 Posts
no
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MirkoS77

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#16 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 16761 Posts

Interesting proposition. Also why do we think the after life involves an spiritual dimension? This may be hell for all we know and we could be preparing for the "real life" as more advanced beings - I mean, think about it, we're pretty **** limited mind and ability wise.

I just went on a little journey there but I like to talk about possibiities like those. I don't know what else to say really.

undergroundLPx

This is kind of along the lines of what I believe. I think life is pretty much for growth and evolution of the soul, and that each evolution is of higher standing than our previous existence. Our bodies are just vessels that we require to accrue the necessary experiences to grow. For all we know, we may be on a spiritual journey to becoming Gods ourselves over many lifetimes. But I believe that pain and suffering never cease to exist in all forms, as they are just as (if not more so) important than anything else is to progress.

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MirkoS77

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#17 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 16761 Posts

On a side note:

I don't get how people view Heaven as a place of eternal bliss. Pain and suffering is required to be able to know joy and happiness. They're separate sides of the same coin and are integral pieces of one another.

Besides, being in eternal bliss all the time strikes me as incredibly boring.

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SilentFireX

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#18 SilentFireX
Member since 2005 • 1956 Posts
No.
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PernicioEnigma

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#19 PernicioEnigma
Member since 2010 • 6661 Posts
So far it's the most heavenly planet we have discovered.
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tenaka2

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#20 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

Ever heard of the Garden of Eden? Many within Christianity put such a distinguishment between earth and heaven that they think of eternal life as being an ethereal existence in an unimaginable place. However, I am very much of the conviction that the good news of Christianity is less about going to heaven but is more about the restoration of this earth. What should have been in the Garden of Eden will be true of all of the earth after the return of Jesus Christ.mindstorm

Wouldn't the return of jesus result in religious wars across the globe?

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l4dak47

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#21 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts

On a side note:

I don't get how people view Heaven as a place of eternal bliss. Pain and suffering is required to be able to know joy and happiness. They're separate sides of the same coin and are integral pieces of one another.

Besides, being in eternal bliss all the time strikes me as incredibly boring.

MirkoS77
I used to believe that, but that simply isn't true. And being in a state of pure euphoria/bliss does not get boring. As for the tc, we could introduce a hedonistic paradise here, but it would require serious change in society.
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sune_Gem

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#22 sune_Gem
Member since 2006 • 12463 Posts

In christianity they used to believe in the Garden of Eden. A place much like heaven that was here on Earth. So in that sense, the belief is Heaven used to be on Earth in some form.

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sune_Gem

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#23 sune_Gem
Member since 2006 • 12463 Posts

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

On a side note:

I don't get how people view Heaven as a place of eternal bliss. Pain and suffering is required to be able to know joy and happiness. They're separate sides of the same coin and are integral pieces of one another.

Besides, being in eternal bliss all the time strikes me as incredibly boring.

l4dak47

I used to believe that, but that simply isn't true. And being in a state of pure euphoria/bliss does not get boring. As for the tc, we could introduce a hedonistic paradise here, but it would require serious change in society.

I think of it like boredom wouldn't exist. Laws of reality change and all we would ever feel for eternity is positive emotion. An ultimate reward.

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Blue-Sky

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#24 Blue-Sky
Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

Heaven doesn't exist.

Kevlar101

you cannot prove that, so why are you saying "It does not exist" as if you know if for a fact? You dont know it for a fact. I am an Agnostic-Atheist, that means that I dont personally believe in god but I accept that idea that a god might exist because the existence of Heaven or a god cannot be proven nor disproven.

Facts are things that proven.

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Angie7F

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#25 Angie7F
Member since 2011 • 1175 Posts

The idea of heaven is so loosely coined, so, no.

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comp_atkins

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#26 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 37796 Posts
it's still some kind of heaven...
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wis3boi

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#27 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Ever heard of the Garden of Eden? Many within Christianity put such a distinguishment between earth and heaven that they think of eternal life as being an ethereal existence in an unimaginable place. However, I am very much of the conviction that the good news of Christianity is less about going to heaven but is more about the restoration of this earth. What should have been in the Garden of Eden will be true of all of the earth after the return of Jesus Christ.tenaka2

Wouldn't the return of jesus result in religious wars across the globe?

I can't imagine the death toll

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AtlanticRock

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#28 AtlanticRock
Member since 2007 • 8131 Posts

Earth is hell. Mars is Utopia. And Jupiter is heaven.

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MacBoomStick

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#29 MacBoomStick
Member since 2011 • 1822 Posts

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

Heaven doesn't exist.

Kevlar101

you cannot prove that, so why are you saying "It does not exist" as if you know if for a fact? You dont know it for a fact. I am an Agnostic-Atheist, that means that I dont personally believe in god but I accept that idea that a god might exist because the existence of Heaven or a god cannot be proven nor disproven.

Keep sitting on your fence like a b*tch

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gamerguru100

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#30 gamerguru100
Member since 2009 • 12718 Posts

Earth is light years closer to being a hell rather than heaven. There's magma underneath us all the time! :o

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mindstorm

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#31 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Ever heard of the Garden of Eden? Many within Christianity put such a distinguishment between earth and heaven that they think of eternal life as being an ethereal existence in an unimaginable place. However, I am very much of the conviction that the good news of Christianity is less about going to heaven but is more about the restoration of this earth. What should have been in the Garden of Eden will be true of all of the earth after the return of Jesus Christ.tenaka2

Wouldn't the return of jesus result in religious wars across the globe?

It wouldn't be a war in the traditional sense. "From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty" (Rev. 19:15). I will say that this is not a pretty picture. However, out of the destruction God will create a new heavens and a new earth, one where there will be no more pain, no more sadness, and no more tears, only love for one another. It's an interesting concept but very often God's salvation is brought about through a form of judgment.
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FMAB_GTO

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#32 FMAB_GTO
Member since 2010 • 14385 Posts
No No No.
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deactivated-58061ea11c905

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#33 deactivated-58061ea11c905
Member since 2011 • 999 Posts

Earth will never be Heaven because humans are greedy and will do everything in their power to make life a living Hell for each other. In fact Earth as it is now is as close to Hell as it gets.

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comp_atkins

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#34 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 37796 Posts

Earth will never be Heaven because humans are greedy and will do everything in their power to make life a living Hell for each other. In fact Earth as it is now is as close to Hell as it gets.

pariah3

Io would like to have a word with you...

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#35 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Ever heard of the Garden of Eden? Many within Christianity put such a distinguishment between earth and heaven that they think of eternal life as being an ethereal existence in an unimaginable place. However, I am very much of the conviction that the good news of Christianity is less about going to heaven but is more about the restoration of this earth. What should have been in the Garden of Eden will be true of all of the earth after the return of Jesus Christ.mindstorm

Wouldn't the return of jesus result in religious wars across the globe?

It wouldn't be a war in the traditional sense. "From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty" (Rev. 19:15). I will say that this is not a pretty picture. However, out of the destruction God will create a new heavens and a new earth, one where there will be no more pain, no more sadness, and no more tears, only love for one another. It's an interesting concept but very often God's salvation is brought about through a form of judgment.

And what about the large population of earth that are not christian?

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mindstorm

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#36 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Wouldn't the return of jesus result in religious wars across the globe?

tenaka2

It wouldn't be a war in the traditional sense. "From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty" (Rev. 19:15). I will say that this is not a pretty picture. However, out of the destruction God will create a new heavens and a new earth, one where there will be no more pain, no more sadness, and no more tears, only love for one another. It's an interesting concept but very often God's salvation is brought about through a form of judgment.

And what about the large population of earth that are not christian?

That's why we who are Christians do evangelism and missions - so that the world will not perish.
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tenaka2

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#37 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"] It wouldn't be a war in the traditional sense. "From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty" (Rev. 19:15). I will say that this is not a pretty picture. However, out of the destruction God will create a new heavens and a new earth, one where there will be no more pain, no more sadness, and no more tears, only love for one another. It's an interesting concept but very often God's salvation is brought about through a form of judgment.mindstorm

And what about the large population of earth that are not christian?

That's why we who are Christians do evangelism and missions - so that the world will not perish.

Evangelism is currently responsible for the 'kill the gays' act in uganda. I'm not so sure I'd like to live in that world.

Fact remains that most of the world will perish if your dreams come true, i'd hope for the worlds sake they do not.

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wis3boi

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#39 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

And what about the large population of earth that are not christian?

tenaka2

That's why we who are Christians do evangelism and missions - so that the world will not perish.

Evangelism is currently responsible for the 'kill the gays' act in uganda. I'm not so sure I'd like to live in that world.

Fact remains that most of the world will perish if your dreams come true, i'd hope for the worlds sake they do not.

Such is the case when people do not analyze the costs of pushing their belief systems on people around the world.

Giving 3rd world countries Christianity doesn't help them. Prayer doesn't help them Giving them food, water, education, and power will. I'm not the type who will hold those basic needs ransom in the name of Jesus.

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harashawn

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#40 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. - Luke 17:21 Heaven is/was not a place. One might say the ancient world before man was the Garden of Eden.
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MirkoS77

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#41 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 16761 Posts

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

On a side note:

I don't get how people view Heaven as a place of eternal bliss. Pain and suffering is required to be able to know joy and happiness. They're separate sides of the same coin and are integral pieces of one another.

Besides, being in eternal bliss all the time strikes me as incredibly boring.

l4dak47

I used to believe that, but that simply isn't true. And being in a state of pure euphoria/bliss does not get boring. As for the tc, we could introduce a hedonistic paradise here, but it would require serious change in society.

How's it not true? How can you have light without darkness? And any constant would get exceptionally boring, especially for eternity...

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l4dak47

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#42 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

On a side note:

I don't get how people view Heaven as a place of eternal bliss. Pain and suffering is required to be able to know joy and happiness. They're separate sides of the same coin and are integral pieces of one another.

Besides, being in eternal bliss all the time strikes me as incredibly boring.

MirkoS77

I used to believe that, but that simply isn't true. And being in a state of pure euphoria/bliss does not get boring. As for the tc, we could introduce a hedonistic paradise here, but it would require serious change in society.

How's it not true? How can you have light without darkness? And any constant would get exceptionally boring, especially for eternity...

Not at all. Pain is pain. Pleasure is pleasure. You do not need one to have the existence of the other. If you're sincerely curious, you might want to check this out since this guy does a much better job of explaining it than me. http://hedweb.com/hedethic/hedonist.htm
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MirkoS77

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#43 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 16761 Posts

Not at all. Pain is pain. Pleasure is pleasure. You do not need one to have the existence of the other. If you're sincerely curious, you might want to check this out since this guy does a much better job of explaining it than me. http://hedweb.com/hedethic/hedonist.html4dak47

A nice link and a good read. Can't say I agree though. Perhaps they can exist independently but man.....still, what an ultimate bore.

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l4dak47

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#44 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]Not at all. Pain is pain. Pleasure is pleasure. You do not need one to have the existence of the other. If you're sincerely curious, you might want to check this out since this guy does a much better job of explaining it than me. http://hedweb.com/hedethic/hedonist.htmMirkoS77

A nice link and a good read. Can't say I agree though. Perhaps they can exist independently but man.....still, what an ultimate bore.

Ehhhh. Better than cycles of sadness and/or boredom before dying. I'm very much a hedonistic person so this kind of stuff really interests me. Unfortunately, I won't be able to have that type of existence in my lifetime
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GreekGameManiac

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#45 GreekGameManiac
Member since 2010 • 6439 Posts

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]Not at all. Pain is pain. Pleasure is pleasure. You do not need one to have the existence of the other. If you're sincerely curious, you might want to check this out since this guy does a much better job of explaining it than me. http://hedweb.com/hedethic/hedonist.htmMirkoS77

A nice link and a good read. Can't say I agree though. Perhaps they can exist independently but man.....still, what an ultimate bore.

Let me ask you this.........

Say you've lived your entire life sheltered,in a huge magical place with lots of green,mountains,rivers,with a bunch of other ppl,never really doing anything other than eating,f*cking,sleeping,talking,having fun and loving each other..supplies are provided magically,and there's a barrier to make both sides(outside & inside)oblivious to each other.

One day,you somehow learn the ENTIRE truth about the world.

Can you honestly say that you'd be FULLY willing to come to a world of pain?

The answer is obvious,i believe.

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MirkoS77

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#46 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 16761 Posts

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]Not at all. Pain is pain. Pleasure is pleasure. You do not need one to have the existence of the other. If you're sincerely curious, you might want to check this out since this guy does a much better job of explaining it than me. http://hedweb.com/hedethic/hedonist.htmGreekGameManiac

A nice link and a good read. Can't say I agree though. Perhaps they can exist independently but man.....still, what an ultimate bore.

Let me ask you this.........

Say you've lived your entire life sheltered,in a huge magical place with lots of green,mountains,rivers,with a bunch of other ppl,never really doing anything other than eating,f*cking,sleeping,talking,having fun and loving each other..supplies are provided magically,and there's a barrier to make both sides(outside & inside)oblivious to each other.

One day,you somehow learn the ENTIRE truth about the world.

Can you honestly say that you'd be FULLY willing to come to a world of pain?

The answer is obvious,i believe.

Well I could tell you this much: I'd be much better equipped to appreciate what I was enjoying far more having learned about what the opposite entails. So yes, I'd be absolutely willing, because your scenario is not as grand as you proclaim without something to contrast it against. I had cancer years back. There was tremendous suffering with chemo, radiation, etc. for years. Was I happy to have my health before I lost it? Sure. Am I happier now to have it back after going through immense pain than I ever could be if I hadn't? I think the answer IS obvious.
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GreekGameManiac

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#47 GreekGameManiac
Member since 2010 • 6439 Posts

Well I could tell you this much: I'd be much better equipped to appreciate what I was enjoying far more having learned about what the opposite entails. So yes, I'd be absolutely willing, because your scenario is not as grand as you proclaim without something to contrast it against. I had cancer years back. There was tremendous suffering with chemo, radiation, etc. for years. Was I happy to have my health before I lost it? Sure. Am I happier now to have it back after going through immense pain than I ever could be if I hadn't? I think the answer IS obvious. MirkoS77

I'm not too sure i'd do that.

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MirkoS77

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#48 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 16761 Posts

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Well I could tell you this much: I'd be much better equipped to appreciate what I was enjoying far more having learned about what the opposite entails. So yes, I'd be absolutely willing, because your scenario is not as grand as you proclaim without something to contrast it against. I had cancer years back. There was tremendous suffering with chemo, radiation, etc. for years. Was I happy to have my health before I lost it? Sure. Am I happier now to have it back after going through immense pain than I ever could be if I hadn't? I think the answer IS obvious. GreekGameManiac

I'm not too sure i'd do that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say I desire to be in pain and suffer but I do think it's something that everyone must be intimately familiar with to truly understand gratefullness and happiness to its fullest potential. That's all.