Is Ultra Instinct Gokus Peak?

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PetterJhon

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#1  Edited By PetterJhon
Member since 2019 • 4 Posts

Hello everyone,,

When it comes to mastering Ultra Instinct that is where DragonBall Super ends but will it be where DragonBall ultimately ends when it comes to Goku? Ultra Instinct appears at first to be the absolute peak of Gokus abilities. He can’t get any stronger or faster...or can he?

An interesting question to think about is just how much further beyond his current form can Goku possibly go if the show were to continue in the future? If things go down in the closing episodes of Super where Goku is seemingly unstoppable can he really push beyond that https://showbox.bio/?

Yes we do have the Gods Of Destruction, Angels and Grand Priest to think about when it comes to really pushing towards that next level. However it was stated that Ultra Instinct was not easy for even as God Of Destruction to obtain and Goku has done so. If this places him on the level of the angels that leaves only the Grand Priest and perhaps even Zeno to surpass and both are seemingly unsurpassable https://tutuapp.uno/.

Is there an ascended form of Ultra Instinct? Should there be? How would that possibly differ from the current silver haired form where everything is at its absolute peak? Has Goku actually found his limit by ironically breaking through his most recent limits? It’s interesting to think about https://vidmate.vet/.

Many people criticised Super for too many transformations. When it comes to Goku could this be his final ever transformation? Is all that’s left for him to possibly increase is his power since everything is basically reacting on its own? Is there a level beyond Ultra Instinct?

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Zaryia

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#2  Edited By Zaryia  Online
Member since 2016 • 10472 Posts

It's not only his peak, but so bad it feels like the peak of anime parody. Like straight out of One Punch Man, only not intentional.

That's just really really bad writing. Worse than some Filler.

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uninspiredcup

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#3  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 36527 Posts

As far as i'm concerned the series ended, right about... here.

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Everything afterwords is fan-fiction.

Originally it was suppose to be end here, and then later was suppose to move to Gohan being the lead character.

Akira Toriyama himself became fatigued, and it shows in the later work. The only reason Super exists from what I read is because he was pissed off at what America did to tarnish the brand, that and stuff like Kai basically helped sell merch.

The later stuff is still enjoyable and has it's moments, but Raditz -Frieza Saga is the series peak point.

@zaryia said:

It's not only his peak, but so bad it feels like the peak of anime parody. Like straight out of One Punch Man, only not intentional.

That's just really really bad writing. Worse than some Filler.

There are many reasons to criticise Super, including poor writing with huge illogical fallacies, but this was alluded to from the very start, with the characters naturally progressing towards fitting thematically with the shows central themes and appeal.

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VagrantSnow

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#4 VagrantSnow
Member since 2018 • 412 Posts

Just have to wait for super saiyan god super saiyan ultra instinct super saiyan kaioken form.

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Jag85

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#5  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 13938 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

As far as i'm concerned the series ended, right about... here.

Everything afterwords is fan-fiction.

Originally it was suppose to be end here, and then later was suppose to move to Gohan being the lead character.

Akira Toriyama himself became fatigued, and it shows in the later work. The only reason Super exists from what I read is because he was pissed off at what America did to tarnish the brand, that and stuff like Kai basically helped sell merch.

The later stuff is still enjoyable and has it's moments, but Raditz -Frieza Saga is the series peak point.

Disagree. Android-Cell Saga was peak Dragon Ball for me. That was where the individual story arcs all came to full fruition. It's the saga where we see Gohan, Piccolo and Vegeta all finally get a proper conclusion to their story arcs. By taking the focus away from Goku for once, that allowed the other characters to shine and develop.

Also, unlike the Saiyan and Namek sagas which have very little connection to the original Dragon Ball, the Android-Cell Saga feels like a true continuation of the original Dragon Ball. The Red Ribbon Saga was actually my introduction to the franchise, so it was cool to see a continuation of that story with the Android-Cell Saga.

Toriyama changed his mind twice, first saying he wanted to end at the Freeza Saga, then the Cell Saga, and then finally the Buu Saga. I think it would've been best to end at the Cell Saga, as it ties up all the loose ends throughout the whole series, from DB to DBZ. The Cell Saga was pretty much the Endgame of Dragon Ball. There was no need for the Buu Saga after that.

BTW, what did Toriyama say about America tarnishing the brand?

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#6  Edited By Zaryia  Online
Member since 2016 • 10472 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

@zaryia said:

It's not only his peak, but so bad it feels like the peak of anime parody. Like straight out of One Punch Man, only not intentional.

That's just really really bad writing. Worse than some Filler.

Yes It was very slightly alluded to, but his explanation had nothing to do with the actual transformation which was absolutely stupid and worse than filler.

He explained reaction times and speed, not gaining all that beyond god-mode energy and power. What's with the aura lmao, it seems like it was designed to sell t-shirts and toys. It made even less sense after watching that Whis video you linked. Very random power up, gained directly through an extremely random method/scene. SSJ1 made sense as was very very well done, this was worse than SSJ4.

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#7  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 36527 Posts

@zaryia said:
@uninspiredcup said:
@zaryia said:

It's not only his peak, but so bad it feels like the peak of anime parody. Like straight out of One Punch Man, only not intentional.

That's just really really bad writing. Worse than some Filler.

Yes It was very slightly alluded to, but his explanation had nothing to do with the actual transformation which was absolutely stupid and worse than filler.

He explained reaction times and speed, not gaining all that beyond god-mode energy and power. What's with the aura lmao, it seems like it was designed to sell t-shirts and toys. It made even less sense after watching that Whis video you linked. Very random power up, gained directly through an extremely random method/scene. SSJ1 made sense as was very very well done, this was worse than SSJ4.

The idea isn't anything exclusive to Dragonball, it fairly common in Wuxia movies where the protagonist has to learn a new style from a newly acquired master to beat a previously unbeatable foe. Shit like Monkey, Snake, Bird and Drunken style with an ethos of bettering yourself through struggle. Really simple plotlines more concerned with the fighting as many of the performers were trained in the physical aspect and not Shakespearean verbiage.

The point you were making though, wasn't some rando shit, it was built on from the start written decently.

The method in how its achieves is more interested in making speculator visuals than something that makes sense, and cheapen it to "he absorbed energy" like it's more of a fluke.

The manga does it differently.

Master Roshi (much to the chagrin of the fanbase) who demonstrates it. Which doesn't make sense given the series huge continuing problem of escalating power, but the entire point of it from the start was to demonstrate it was not explicitly dictated by strowgest and makes more sense in the series (and in line with Wuxia) of the old master showing the student.

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The manga generally is far better than the anime, Kaioken, Royal Blue, Trunks magically superman with "da powa of gud", all of it is done differently and better, with none of the filler.

Not that filler is inherently bad, some of Z's was very good. Pikkon was awesome. Kai loses a lot of the sense of scale and character investment in part due to cutting so much out.

The worst writing of Super by far imo was "tingly back" and the ending to Trunks (pointless) Saga, these were truly dreadful even if you do turn your logic switch off.

Again, just take it as fan-fiction, the series peaked with a start-end arc in it's first couple of seasons. The only expanded stuff that felt relevant was Broly, which directly relates to those original seasons, acting as something of a soft-reboot.

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uninspiredcup

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#8 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 36527 Posts

@Jag85 said:
.

BTW, what did Toriyama say about America tarnishing the brand?

He offered input but they completely ignored him, he wasn't happy about that or Supers animation. A new Dragonball series was being set up prior to the movie but at that time Toriyama wasn't into it. They released Kai to keep the brand relevant and steamline it and then from that Toriyama (only really giving a basic outline) had input Super.

Funny thing about Dragonball Evolution, it was produced by Stephen Chow, who actually makes some really, fantastic comedy martial arts movie, completely in line with the tone of Dragonball.

The series never really needs a live-action version (it will again because money), but I think if he had more involvement it would at least have not been such the disaster it turned out to be.

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#9 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 13938 Posts

@uninspiredcup: Oh, you mean Evolution. Yeah, that was steaming garbage. Almost forgot Stephen Chow produced that. The movie would've turned out a lot better if he actually directed it, in his own style, with a Hong Kong crew. A DB movie in a Kung Fu Hustle style would've been a great fit. But they tried to make it too Hollywood and failed.

Ironically, I thought Man of Steel was a better DBZ movie than DB Evolution. MoS was a weak Superman movie, but its action scenes felt more like DBZ than Evolution did.

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#10 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 44979 Posts

I know I'm on a video games website, but this is some nerdy ass shit

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#11 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 6527 Posts

They still havent show the big gorrila ultra instinct mode.

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#12 PCVirginRace
Member since 2017 • 190 Posts

"is ssj3 gokus peak?"

"Is ssj4 gokus peak?"

"Is ssjgod gokus peak?"

New dragon ball series goku turns to ssj god god almighty form*

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#13 PSP107
Member since 2007 • 17610 Posts

@uninspiredcup: "The only reason Super exists from what I read is because he was pissed off at what America did to tarnish the brand,"

What America did this time?