Hugo Chavez is Dead

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#301 Posted by thebest31406 (3775 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="thebest31406"] The thing is back in 2007 when Manuel Rosales was running for presidency he was winning the elections like by 73% (if I'm not mistaken) and when it was 10PM that night votes shifted and Chavez had 73% votes, how did that happen in just an hour and a half? Rumours were Chavez' people kidnapped Rosales' family and threatened him to give votes to Chavez. I'm not saying it happened but the shift votes is fishy.

Wut? Look at all the polls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2006 Chávez was always comfortably ahead. Look at the observers too. No one said the election was fraud.

I don't think 6 years later anyone would want to prove fraud.

But it's all you can go by. Anything else is just conspiracy theory.
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#302 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -

If anyone here would've lived in Venezuela while Chavez was in power you'd see why many left the country and hated him. Not hard to see when you live it.

DeadMan1290
Considering Venezuela was much worst before I probably would have left before that...
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#303 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15528 posts) -
[QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] He did a lot more than that. Really history will give him his place as one of the key figures for a complete change in the history of Latin America.

Only thing I ever agreed with Chavez was his hatred for the US. I don't hate the US but it was about time someone in South America stood up to them.

Good for most of Latin America. His presence and influence encouraged other Latin American countries to stop abiding by western rule and to make matters into their own hands.

Yep. Now, US will want to re-establish relations with Venezuela.
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#304 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"] You encourage what he did?

Eh I don't know. If you were a president will you not take measures against people who tried to use force to take your presidency? Latin America has a history of that, Allende was the chilean elected president a coup was done, he was murdered, a military dictatorship was installed for many years and thousands of people disappeared or got murdered. You can't blame Chávez for being cautious and taking strong measures.

In other words he didn't want anyone to do to him what he did to Carlos Andres Perez in '92. Sure it failed, but he did it.

That's true but in his defense when Perez was there the Caracazo happened where the army killed hundreds of people. Chávez never did anything as disgusting as that. And Chávez changed a lot you can find videos where he talks against socialism but he became a full blown socialist afterwards. He himself said that he changed a lot.
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#305 Posted by thebest31406 (3775 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"] Only thing I ever agreed with Chavez was his hatred for the US. I don't hate the US but it was about time someone in South America stood up to them.

Good for most of Latin America. His presence and influence encouraged other Latin American countries to stop abiding by western rule and to make matters into their own hands.

Yep. Now, US will want to re-establish relations with Venezuela.

Now that's the thing to mourn over.; the potential death of South American independence.
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#306 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15528 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"]

If anyone here would've lived in Venezuela while Chavez was in power you'd see why many left the country and hated him. Not hard to see when you live it.

kuraimen
Considering Venezuela was much worst before I probably would have left before that...

People older than you and me including my parents have told me that before Venezuela's Bolivar was worth much more than today, markets actually had products to sell, and you could go out without worrying about getting killed. Venezuela went more down than up.
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#307 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="thebest31406"] Good for most of Latin America. His presence and influence encouraged other Latin American countries to stop abiding by western rule and to make matters into their own hands.

Yep. Now, US will want to re-establish relations with Venezuela.

Now that's the thing to mourn over.; the potential death of South American independence.

Not gonna happen again. South America has finally learned to defend themselves thankfully.
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#308 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"]

If anyone here would've lived in Venezuela while Chavez was in power you'd see why many left the country and hated him. Not hard to see when you live it.

DeadMan1290
Considering Venezuela was much worst before I probably would have left before that...

People older than you and me including my parents have told me that before Venezuela's Bolivar was worth much more than today, markets actually had products to sell, and you could go out without worrying about getting killed. Venezuela went more down than up.

Is that why it was considered the poorest country in Latin America? And I was alive wayyy before Chávez came to power
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#309 Posted by LJS9502_basic (162426 posts) -

[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="thebest31406"] Good for most of Latin America. His presence and influence encouraged other Latin American countries to stop abiding by western rule and to make matters into their own hands.thebest31406
Yep. Now, US will want to re-establish relations with Venezuela.

Now that's the thing to mourn over.; the potential death of South American independence.

Establishing relations =/= being taken over. Honestly the hysteria of OT is ridiculous.

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#310 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15528 posts) -
[QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="thebest31406"] Good for most of Latin America. His presence and influence encouraged other Latin American countries to stop abiding by western rule and to make matters into their own hands.

Yep. Now, US will want to re-establish relations with Venezuela.

Now that's the thing to mourn over.; the potential death of South American independence.

I don't know, I don't think other Latin American leaders will fall for that seeing what Chavez did.
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#312 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15528 posts) -
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Considering Venezuela was much worst before I probably would have left before that...

People older than you and me including my parents have told me that before Venezuela's Bolivar was worth much more than today, markets actually had products to sell, and you could go out without worrying about getting killed. Venezuela went more down than up.

Is that why it was considered the poorest country in Latin America? And I was alive wayyy before Chávez came to power

Venezuela's potential to be one of the richest in the world is never fulfilled thanks to out leaders. Chavez at least raised the oil's price.... But, where's all that money?
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#313 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15528 posts) -

[QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"] Yep. Now, US will want to re-establish relations with Venezuela.LJS9502_basic

Now that's the thing to mourn over.; the potential death of South American independence.

Establishing relations =/= being taken over. Honestly the hysteria of OT is ridiculous.

I doubt they would want to take over honestly, not in this day and age.
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#314 Posted by LJS9502_basic (162426 posts) -
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="thebest31406"] Now that's the thing to mourn over.; the potential death of South American independence.DeadMan1290

Establishing relations =/= being taken over. Honestly the hysteria of OT is ridiculous.

I doubt they would want to take over honestly, not in this day and age.

I agree. I just think it's incredibly ignorant and/or naive when I see posts as such.
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#315 Posted by thebest31406 (3775 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"] People older than you and me including my parents have told me that before Venezuela's Bolivar was worth much more than today, markets actually had products to sell, and you could go out without worrying about getting killed. Venezuela went more down than up.

Is that why it was considered the poorest country in Latin America? And I was alive wayyy before Chávez came to power

Venezuela's potential to be one of the richest in the world is never fulfilled thanks to out leaders. Chavez at least raised the oil's price.... But, where's all that money?

Probably went to Chavez. Even though he's was one of the better heads of state out there by eliminating poverty and all, he was still a head of state so the majority of money goes to his regime.
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#316 Posted by DroidPhysX (17098 posts) -
Wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. was behind this purely based on their actions in other South American countries.
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#317 Posted by LJS9502_basic (162426 posts) -
Wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. was behind this purely based on their actions in other South American countries.DroidPhysX
I see you wear the same hat as hartsickdiscpl.:roll:
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#318 Posted by DroidPhysX (17098 posts) -
[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. was behind this purely based on their actions in other South American countries.LJS9502_basic
I see you wear the same hat as hartsickdiscpl.:roll:

I guess harts also knows the story of Los Pepes and Pablo Escobar.
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#319 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="thebest31406"] Now that's the thing to mourn over.; the potential death of South American independence.DeadMan1290

Establishing relations =/= being taken over. Honestly the hysteria of OT is ridiculous.

I doubt they would want to take over honestly, not in this day and age.

Well they had a role on the 2002 coup and considering their history on Latin America they really can't be trusted. That's why the new Latin American institutions left the US out, they don't want their interference.
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#320 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"] People older than you and me including my parents have told me that before Venezuela's Bolivar was worth much more than today, markets actually had products to sell, and you could go out without worrying about getting killed. Venezuela went more down than up.

Is that why it was considered the poorest country in Latin America? And I was alive wayyy before Chávez came to power

Venezuela's potential to be one of the richest in the world is never fulfilled thanks to out leaders. Chavez at least raised the oil's price.... But, where's all that money?

Where's the 30% more of poverty they had before or the illiteracy? There goes your answer...
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#321 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15528 posts) -
[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. was behind this purely based on their actions in other South American countries.LJS9502_basic
I see you wear the same hat as hartsickdiscpl.:roll:

Yeah, that's not a very smart thing to say. Just like blaming the US for Chavez' cancer. LOL.
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#322 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15528 posts) -
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Is that why it was considered the poorest country in Latin America? And I was alive wayyy before Chávez came to power

Venezuela's potential to be one of the richest in the world is never fulfilled thanks to out leaders. Chavez at least raised the oil's price.... But, where's all that money?

Where's the 30% more of poverty they had before or the illiteracy? There goes your answer...

Good point.
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#323 Posted by MrPraline (21351 posts) -
[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. was behind this purely based on their actions in other South American countries.LJS9502_basic
I see you wear the same hat as hartsickdiscpl.:roll:

It's a nice hat
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#324 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] Their economy collapses. Almost half of their oil exports are to the United States alone (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=venezuela+oil+exports+&go=&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=venezuela+oil+exports+&sc=5-21&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&id=7144DAE67FECE312C796349FEB07B68CAA35C4D5&selectedIndex=0) And oil exports make up about 20% of their economy. Foreign investment in Venezuela would also decrease significantly if Venezuela decided to stop exporting oil, even if only to the United States.

lo_Pine

Ok. Now do you want to answer the question I asked you?

lmao... you didn't even answer my question in the first place. And I answered you're question by saying the Venezuelan economy collapses if they stop selling oil. If you are talking about fuel prices going up, they would increase by very little because no matter how much Venezuela supplies to the US which is at most 10%. The US demand for oil is too high so other countries would not forgo the opportunity to capitalize on the US oil market by lowering their prices to remain competitive.

You have no idea how the oil market works do you?

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#325 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

@kuraimen

It's one thing to carry out policies intended to help the poor. For all I know, they may have been effective policies (I'm not too familiar with the economic conditions of Venezuela, past and present). It's another to fire thousands of middle class engineers because they do not agree with said policies. In fact, I'd call it outright oppressive.

kuraimen

Nationalizing =/= firing. Where do you get he fired so many people? And if firing people is such a crime then all big companies in the world should be prosecuted since they have fired thousands of people during the economic crisis. Some changes need drastic measures. In this case what Chávez did was crucial to a brighter future for the whole region.

It's funny, if a employer here in the US fired workers over political differences people here would be defending that employer. At-will employment and all.

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#326 Posted by DroidPhysX (17098 posts) -
Evo Morales best be sleeping with one eye open. U.S. will be after him next.
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#327 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

Evo Morales best be sleeping with one eye open. U.S. will be after him next.DroidPhysX
And yet Fidel still lives on

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#328 Posted by MrPraline (21351 posts) -
U.S. will be after him next.DroidPhysX
Hope for Barry O that it goes better than Ecuador 2010.
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#329 Posted by jetpower3 (11614 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="thebest31406"]one_plum

hitler was also loved...and he was a dictator

That's why the people took it to the streets to mourn Hitler's death after he shot himself...

To be fair, it's hard to mourn anyone when you have just been brutally defeated in war, your country is largely destroyed, and it is about to be essentially sliced up between competing powers. I would be interested in the possibilities of Hitler's death in the absence of WWII.

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#330 Posted by alim298 (2747 posts) -

:DLOL:D. I am not sure but my friends tell me that Ahmadinejad (Iran's pres.) has even sent a regard. What a funny :D man I love him.:D:D:D

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#331 Posted by MrPraline (21351 posts) -

:DLOL:D. I am not sure but my friends tell me that Ahmadinejad (Iran's pres.) has even sent a regard. What a funny :D man I love him.:D:D:D

alim298
Him and Ahmadinejad were on very good terms as far as I know.
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#332 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Evo Morales best be sleeping with one eye open. U.S. will be after him next.-Sun_Tzu-

And yet Fidel still lives on

"I love Fidel Castro ... I respect Fidel Castro. You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that motherf*cker is still here." - Ozzie Guillen

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#333 Posted by mmwmwmmwmwmm (620 posts) -

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Evo Morales best be sleeping with one eye open. U.S. will be after him next.worlock77

And yet Fidel still lives on

"I love Fidel Castro ... I respect Fidel Castro. You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that motherf*cker is still here." - Ozzie Guillen

Castro is communist scum.
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#334 Posted by thebest31406 (3775 posts) -

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Evo Morales best be sleeping with one eye open. U.S. will be after him next.worlock77

And yet Fidel still lives on

"I love Fidel Castro ... I respect Fidel Castro. You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that motherf*cker is still here." - Ozzie Guillen

word.
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#335 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] And yet Fidel still lives on

mmwmwmmwmwmm

"I love Fidel Castro ... I respect Fidel Castro. You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that motherf*cker is still here." - Ozzie Guillen

Castro is communist scum.

When I was growing up I really thought that communism wouldn't be such a boogieman by the year 2013.

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#336 Posted by mmwmwmmwmwmm (620 posts) -

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

"I love Fidel Castro ... I respect Fidel Castro. You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that motherf*cker is still here." - Ozzie Guillen

worlock77

Castro is communist scum.

When I was growing up I really thought that communism wouldn't be such a boogieman by the year 2013.

If you think there is anything good about a group of thugs with guns calling themselves the government and denying individuals the right to own property and their lives, then you still have some growing up to do.
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#337 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

"I love Fidel Castro ... I respect Fidel Castro. You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that motherf*cker is still here." - Ozzie Guillen

worlock77

Castro is communist scum.

When I was growing up I really thought that communism wouldn't be such a boogieman by the year 2013.

I heard they still eat babies sometimes.
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#338 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] Castro is communist scum.mmwmwmmwmwmm

When I was growing up I really thought that communism wouldn't be such a boogieman by the year 2013.

If you think there is anything good about a group of thugs with guns calling themselves the government and denying individuals the right to own property and their lives, then you still have some growing up to do.

:lol:

Some would argue that's exactly what the United States government does.

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#339 Posted by mmwmwmmwmwmm (620 posts) -

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

When I was growing up I really thought that communism wouldn't be such a boogieman by the year 2013.

worlock77

If you think there is anything good about a group of thugs with guns calling themselves the government and denying individuals the right to own property and their lives, then you still have some growing up to do.

:lol:

Some would argue that's exactly what the United States government does.

That is what the US has been doing for a while now, and that is not okay. There are a lot of criminals in the US government, but that does not change the fact that Castro is communist scum.
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#340 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] If you think there is anything good about a group of thugs with guns calling themselves the government and denying individuals the right to own property and their lives, then you still have some growing up to do.mmwmwmmwmwmm

:lol:

Some would argue that's exactly what the United States government does.

That is what the US has been doing for a while now, and that is not okay. There are a lot of criminals in the US government, but that does not change the fact that Castro is communist scum.

So then the U.S. governemt is full of "communist scum" as well?

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#341 Posted by GreySeal9 (28247 posts) -

Modern day McCarthys are pretty embarrasing.

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#342 Posted by MrPraline (21351 posts) -

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

When I was growing up I really thought that communism wouldn't be such a boogieman by the year 2013.

worlock77

If you think there is anything good about a group of thugs with guns calling themselves the government and denying individuals the right to own property and their lives, then you still have some growing up to do.

:lol:

Some would argue that's exactly what the United States government does.

lol i would
Avatar image for mmwmwmmwmwmm
#343 Posted by mmwmwmmwmwmm (620 posts) -

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

:lol:

Some would argue that's exactly what the United States government does.

worlock77

That is what the US has been doing for a while now, and that is not okay. There are a lot of criminals in the US government, but that does not change the fact that Castro is communist scum.

So then the U.S. governemt is full of "communist scum" as well?

Yes.
Avatar image for worlock77
#344 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] That is what the US has been doing for a while now, and that is not okay. There are a lot of criminals in the US government, but that does not change the fact that Castro is communist scum.mmwmwmmwmwmm

So then the U.S. governemt is full of "communist scum" as well?

Yes.

So what countries, in your view, have governments that are not full of communist scum?

Avatar image for mmwmwmmwmwmm
#345 Posted by mmwmwmmwmwmm (620 posts) -

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

So then the U.S. governemt is full of "communist scum" as well?

worlock77

Yes.

So what countries, in your view, have governments that are not full of communist scum?

I don't know of any that don't have at least some. Obviously not everyone within the US government is a communist, but many are.
Avatar image for worlock77
#346 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] Yes.mmwmwmmwmwmm

So what countries, in your view, have governments that are not full of communist scum?

I don't know of any that don't have at least some. Obviously not everyone within the US government is a communist, but many are.

Oh they don't have to be completely free of communist scum. Just not full of it.

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#347 Posted by GreySeal9 (28247 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] Yes.mmwmwmmwmwmm

So what countries, in your view, have governments that are not full of communist scum?

I don't know of any that don't have at least some. Obviously not everyone within the US government is a communist, but many are.

So who are the communists within the US government?

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#348 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30138 posts) -

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

So what countries, in your view, have governments that are not full of communist scum?

worlock77

I don't know of any that don't have at least some. Obviously not everyone within the US government is a communist, but many are.

Oh they don't have to be completely free of communist scum. Just not full of it.

I wonder whose alt that guy is.

Laihendi? Vuurk?

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#349 Posted by mmwmwmmwmwmm (620 posts) -

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

So what countries, in your view, have governments that are not full of communist scum?

GreySeal9

I don't know of any that don't have at least some. Obviously not everyone within the US government is a communist, but many are.

So who are the communists within the US government?

Obama and Elizabeth Warren come to mind.
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#350 Posted by GreySeal9 (28247 posts) -

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] I don't know of any that don't have at least some. Obviously not everyone within the US government is a communist, but many are.mmwmwmmwmwmm

So who are the communists within the US government?

Obama and Elizabeth Warren come to mind.

And what proof do you have they are communists?