Has Hamas Bought This On The Palestinians??

There is no "If Israel can show". They have already shown a number of times. Why don't you try to educate yourself a bit on the subject instead of forming an opinion based on ignorance.

The problem isn't how Israel handles the civilians, it is how Hamas handles the civilians. They are the one using them as human shields, not Israel.

Israel won much of its territory in wars of self-defense against surrounding Arab nations. However, while those events certainly shape the contemporary relations between Israel and the Palestinians, the primary cause of this current conflict is Hamas launching rockets.

Israel and the Palestinians are both at fault, Israel is turning rather genocidal as of late, while the various military groups in Gaza just don't cut it out. I mean they are literally constantly poking at Israel since it was created, I'm really not surprised they are going so batshit insane with the years.

Bit hyperbole there.....

Then you've either read wrong, or have been subjected to Zionist brainwashing propaganda. Palestinian land was never occupied "fair and square", but was occupied with the help of Western imperial powers, primarily Britain and America. Also, it was the Zionists (even before they became known as Israelis) who "started war" against the Palestinians, not the other way around. Here is a lengthy documentary from a former Israeli soldier explaining the history of the Zionist colonization of Palestine:

The Zionist Story

maybe Hamas should just get over it and stop poking the bear, and endangering the lives of Palestinian people.

Hamas is a Frankenstein monster raised and nurtured by Israel, in order to undermine Yasser Arafat's popular, secular PLO/Fatah movement...

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas

It's just an age-old colonialist policy of divide & conquer, dividing a colonized population along political and sectarian lines, creating a divide between Muslim and Christian Palestinians, and between secularists and Islamists, to prevent a united Palestinian uprising against the Israeli occupation. But like the CIA learned with the Taliban and Al Qaeda, Israel ended up creating their own worst enemy.

Do the actual Palestinian people even want to keep this old conflict going or is it just Hamas holding a grudge?

Palestinian people want freedom, something Israel has refused to give them, time and again, for over half a century. Also, it's Israel that clearly holds a grudge against its Frankenstein monster Hamas. It was Israel that started this current conflict over false allegations that Hamas was involved in the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers, in spite of audio evidence demonstrating the kidnappers conversing to each other in Hebrew rather than Arabic, something which Israel attempted to cover-up. Without a single shred of evidence of any Hamas involvement, Israel used the kidnappings of three Israeli teenagers as a false pretence to invade Gaza, arrest hundreds of Palestinians, bombard Gaza, and murder over a dozen Palestinians, including several children, in order to incite a reaction from Hamas, knowing full well that its primitive rockets would be useless against Israel's Iron Dome.

And even before the current conflict, Israel has been blockading Gaza into an open-air prison for seven years, an act of aggression that has heavily restricted the movement of food (counting calories to prevent any more food than the bare minimum required by a human), medicine, humanitarian aid, human movement, and even building materials. The main reason why the underground Gaza smuggling tunnel system even exists is to bypass Israel's aggressive prison blockade, which causes countless Palestinian deaths from deprivation every year.

Also it seems as though Isreal is being quite heavy handed in defending themselves, but then you have Hamas using schools and residential areas to store and launch rockets which is in turn endangering civilians.

Yet more Zionist propaganda. In the vast majority of homes, schools, UN shelters, cafes and beaches that have been destroyed by Israel, there has never been any evidence of rockets at most of those locations. With its almost impenetrable Iron Dome defense system, Israel has no reason to fear Hamas' primitive rockets, hence why Israel instigated a reaction out of Hamas in the first place. The rockets were never the main goal. Israel's goals are mainly to break down the Palestinian unity government, the destruction of its own Frankenstein monster Hamas, bombarding and terrorizing the Gazan population into submission, and to control Palestine through fear.

Maybe if Israel is so much more mighty than Palestine they should stop the Ariel assault and just send in ground troops to deal with suspected areas instead of bombing them surely that would reduce civilian casualties.

Why would Israel want to sacrifice its troops? Bombing Gazan civilians en masse lowers the number of combat deaths from its own Israeli side. After all, Jewish blood is more sacred than Gentile blood.

HAMAS continuing to fire rockets and deceiving civilians is obviously a big problem; I still believe Israel can be more selective in their attacks though.

The issue is far from black and white, if Palestine stops any resistance, can anyone guarantee that further land wouldn't be taken from them? HAMAS is a liability to Palestinians and its violent tendencies are not the solution for the people, but I wouldn't trust Israel in giving Palestinians a fair treatment.

I believe any leaders that Palestinians pick will result in a dead end for them: electing a militant party means hopelessly and foolishly clashing with a much superior military. Electing a pacifist party and Israel will "peacefully" absorb them.

It would seem to me that the only worthwhile strategy for the Palestinians to take is a path of self-reliance, they are in many ways a people that have been abandoned. The Israeli's aren't going to do much for them at this point, the Arab states haven't and won't do anything for them, the UN has done nothing for them. To make matters worse the entirety of Palestinian leadership oozes corruption. Even the namesake of their people, "Palestinian", derived from "Philistine," a people that have long since disappeared and have no real cultural connection to. It's a contrived identity that was imposed on them for political purposes by the other Arab states as part of a cynical chess game where they serve as the pawns (before 1948 Jews living in Mandatory Palestine were just as "Palestinian" as their Arab neighbors).

Hopefully the UN will find Israel guilty of war crimes, that way we can cut the retraded foreign aid they get.

lol, it's amazing that people still think there is a country called "palestine." there has never been a "palestinian" people with its own language, culture, leaders, government, etc.

it is an area of land mass.

one of the biggest scams in history.

@Jag85:

I see quite a lot of nonsense in that entire post, do you lie as a hobby or did you get a degree for it?

@Jag85 After reading your steaming pile of manure. I am literally wanting to give you a plane ticket to go live in the Shangrila of the Islamic states. I got the money. Get your passport, get ready to fight the good fight.

but i'm betting you'll be like the dumb hick American who defected from the Americans to the North Koreans then found out North Korea really is an Orwellian nightmare state.

Yes you like to speculate, I get that, but I would prefer to just stick to that facts if that is okay with you. That facts are this.

Israel has dropped hundreds of thousands of leaflets to warn the civilians to clear out. They prefer to listen to Hamas and not clear out (clear sign that they support what Hamas is doing)

Hama Uses these people as human shields and stores/fires their weapons from populated civilian sites.

You can speculate what would happen all you wish, you are entitles to your opinion, but the above sentences are facts, not my opinion.

Go on Youtube and you will find tons of videos of Israel calling off attacks due to civilians being in the same location as the target.

So you can blame Israel all you wish, but that facts are working against you

Fair and square..??? How about you watch this and learn something

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10154349697715545&set=vb.746105544&type=2&theater

@AmazonTreeBoa:

not sure Id agree with the fact that they "chose" to listen to Hamas, at the end of the day, Hamas runs Gaza as a pseudo dictatorship . A lot of them are afraid of retaliation from Hamas if they disobey (if somebody threatens you and has the power to do it, you would obey too most likely). what happens to those who did leave is a good question.

Thats not to say Hamas doesn't have a significant support base of course, nor is it done out of any liking of Israel or Jews.

Yet they voted them into office. Doesn't sound like people who are scared to me.

@AmazonTreeBoa:

that was 8 years ago , who knows what people think now. Although its also notable that Hamas didn't win a majority, they were the biggest party (some 45% of the vote I think) but not a majority.

At the same time, there is no denying that Hamas runs Gaza like a state (it has its borders, laws, government, basic arms industry) so Hamas is responsible for the citizens of Gaza whether they like it or not.

@LJS9502_basic:

What I said was from factual information learnt from non bias sources, I am on no ones side apart from the truth.

Wow. People don't get it.

Who is right / who is wrong ? What is this, a Disney movie? Nothing in life is ever that simple.

Also -- it's hypocritical to imply that citizens are culpable for the actions of those they elect. We've all been citizens of governments who have at times wronged others / committed crimes.

That rule doesn't apply when it is a terrorist group being voted in. They knew wtf they were doing voting them in. It's not like voting for somebody that blatantly lied to you (Obama). They knew what they were voting for and what Hamas stood for when they voted.

I think if you knowingly vote in an undesirable individual/group you have to shoulder some of the blame.

The ICJ found them guilty back in 04. It's 2014 and they're still at it. You won't find much justice as long as the Godfather enables their actions.

When you look at a given election there are a lot of reasons people vote one side or the other. The results of a given American election may be determined by the state of the economy, current events, televised debates, party, judgments on the character of candidates, which party best represents ones view of the integrity of the country, etc. A generally liberal individual may vote for a conservative president because they're concerned about the economy, or don't trust the democratic candidate. Foreign policy may not be a priority for everyone.

Currently, people in the West view Hamas as dangerous terrorists but that doesn't make us qualified to say how a rational Palestinian should have voted however many years ago. (And, of course, not everyone in Palestine voted the same.) When making these sorts of judgments it's important to do so from the perspective of someone from that country (i.e. whose great grandfather grew up in that country, whose children are in their school system, who sees that country's flag and actually feels something, etc.)

In part.

Also the whole " They voted them into office so they deserve it" statement, besides being rather cold I also can't help but think " Well..of course they supported them in the beginning." Now I am by no way supporting Hamas, frankly I think they and the Israeli government have just as much responsibility of the deaths that are happening. But I can understand why the Palestinians voted them into the office when they did.

Imagine this, the place you live is essentially under the control of a foreign state. They sieze land from the area you have to live so to build houses for their own citizens, they block trading and letting you leave. They refer to you as vermin and worse. Their citizens mock and attack you. And this goes on for years. Then a group forms to oppose them.

Throughout history if a foreign power holds control over another country or state then those living in that state will offer support to groups that oppose that power. Some examples to that. French Resistance, Norwegian Resistance, Ghandi, IRA, Castro. Actions aside, these are a few groups I can mention at the top of my head that opposed a more superior power, and that were very popular with the majority of the people living in the country that was being suppressed. But much like some of them, their actions also made the support drop much like Hamas's support is.

But I can see why they were supported in the first place.

@AmazonTreeBoa: "The problem isn't how Israel handles the civilians, it is how Hamas handles the civilians. They are the one using them as human shields, not Israel"

Israel has demonstrated they don't care about human shields, Hamas don't care about using human shields so what are you talking about? I don't think that anyone is in the right here.

If people really believe that, then it's no wonder Americans got the hate they got when they elected and re-elected Bush...

I'd say both sides have problems, it's just that HAMAS has shown to be more ruthless, I'll give you that.

Saudi? Damn you making that money bro? Haven't seen you in a minute.

@thebest31406: muslim countries and the laughably worthless and corrupt u.n. will find israel "guilty" of everything while they have the gall to exist.

Israel is a terrorist because it kills Filstusnsn whether they were children or elderly or Nsaoua

@achraf7: any evil group trying to hide their wicked deeds (and, attacks upon me) behind children and the elderly will gain no respite or justification. game on or get your cowardly butt out of my home and life.

Yeah sorry kid, but the facts override your opinion. And that facts are they dropped leaflets and made phone calls to try and prevent civilian deaths, which is more than any other country would do.

@AmazonTreeBoa: I hear ya, but if they're that concerned with civilians they would stop the Ariel assaults and just go in with their commandos.

No, what they have done is more than enough and no more is needed to be done. It isn't their fault (Israel) that the Palestinians want to listen to the lies Hamas tells them and stay put instead of leaving. It isn't their fault that Hamas stores and fires their rockets from civilian locations such as schools and hospitals. I also like how those supporting gaza keep bitching about all the deaths in gaza vs those in Israel. The iron dome defense Israel has is the only thing stopping Israel's civilian death from skyrocketing. At least Israel is making effort to target Hamas and not the Civilians. All the while Hamas is purposely targeting civilians and using civilians as shields.