@thebest31406 said:
That's false. The ANC conducted most of their bombing campaigns in civilian areas; including shopping centers, court structures, a bar, an arcade, a bank, a stadium and civilian street corners. As far as creating Palestinians deaths, I not sure what that means. If you're suggesting "human shields", then I'd like to see some proof because Amnesty, HRW and the BBC's ME editor Jeremy Bowen saw no evidence of human shields. .
It was never the official policy of the ANC that civilians were fair game. Yes, civilians died at the hands of the ANC but it was never the official policy of the ANC to kill civilians. It is the official policy of Hamas that targeting civilians is justified. And in terms of creating Palestinian deaths, I'm not just talking about Hamas concealing their movements among civilian populations, or using civil buildings to hide their rockets - they have given PSA's to ignore Israeli warnings about potential military strikes. They have executed Palestinians because they might've had the nerve to tell the IDF where civilian homes were locate, or warning fellow civilians to evacuate an area. Also where are all the bomb shelters in Gaza? Don't tell me it's because they lack the cement to make them, they had plenty of cement to build all those tunnels going into Israel. Where are their priorities? Are you really telling me that you don't have any opinion on these tactics? Is the morally superior position to disregard what Hamas does and says because it's "none of our business"? Hamas consistently treats their own people like cannon fodder, the ANC never had such a depraved view of human life.
@thebest31406 said:
You state that The "oppressor" is not always in the wrong nor is the "oppressed" always in the right. I don't know what you're saying with this "right" and "wrong." People have a right to fight against their occupation and annexation. It's a just fight irrespective of a relativist perception of right and wrong.I apply this logic universally and this logic would extend to Israelis' if Israelis' were being occupied and annexed. But they're not, so it doesn't.
"We are told that it is only people's objective actions that matter, and their subjective feelings are of no importance. Thus pacifists, by obstructing the war effort, are 'objectively' aiding the Nazis; and therefore the fact that they may be personally hostile to Fascism is irrelevant. I have been guilty of saying this myself more than once. The same argument is applied to Trotskyism…To criticize the Soviet Union helps Hitler: therefore "Trotskyism is Fascism". And when this has been established, the accusation of conscious treachery is usually repeated.
This is not only dishonest; it also carries a severe penalty with it. If you disregard people's motives, it becomes much harder to foresee their actions."
What Hamas says matters. What their intentions are matters. As a general principle Palestinians certainly are justified in resisting occupation and fighting for self-determination. But that doesn't give them carte blanche on everything they do. Hamas is a fascist organization. They have no regard for free speech, free press, freedom of religion, women's rights, minority rights, gay rights, ect. For liberal-minded people to sympathize, rationalize, and justify this type of organization is indefensible. I don't care how bad the occupation is - people have behaved better in the face of worse injustice.
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