Gov. shutdown who claims the lion's share of responsibility?

Now obviously all sides can claim some responsibility. The Tea Party for refusing to fund the government unless democrats gave them everything they want, establishment Republicans for being too cowardly to stand up to the minority faction of their party, and Democrats for refusing to go along with it.

So to me the Tea Party is largely the most responsible group. At least that is how I see it.

How do you view it OT?

anything that cannot be sustained will not be. you can deal with it today on your terms or lose complete control and collapse the dollar, and in that case everyone loses everything.


china and the EU signed a bilateral trade agreement, they will no longer be settling trade in dollars, as of a few days ago. obama does deserve 100% of the blame for shutting down free standing open air things, no other president has ever done that. democrats will not vote on any budget passed by the house, and neocons are still unwilling to cut back the daddy state as the progressives are ramping up the mommy state.

who is to blame? public education, because if people could add, none of this would be acceptable to the electorate.

Well for this particular tomfoolery I give the lion's share of the blame to the Republicans. But inasmuch as we are talking about what is causing our long-term debt issues, I think the Democrats are at least as much to blame as the Republicans, perhaps more.

Debt Ceiling: China Calls for World to Be 'De-Americanised'

the only thing the states have is the world reserve currency, that has allowed the US to increase their monetary base by 470% over the last five years. if the dollar were not used as 1/2 of all transactions world wide this would have caused crazy inflation, but because there has be ZERO recover, money velocity has been plummeting, because of these factors and a few others, the inflation (increase in the money supply) has not lead to high local price inflation. with that said increasing food costs around the world is mostly due to our debasement.

other economies want out of the dollar, and it is mostly because of how the government as a whole has acted since the 08' crash.

Both parties are to blame and with the Democrats wanting to move the goalposts as far as the sequestration law being the law of the land, they want to do away with it and will not negotiate unless it gets overturned (more or less and it was a White House deal to begin with). The Republicans keep coming up with budget proposals yet the left, especially Harry Reid, keeps saying that the will not negotiate.

Newsflash, neither party will always get what it wants, there has to be negotiations and with the left being stupidly stubborn over it shows that they do not care as much about the people or the country as they profess to be.

Spending Dispute Leaves a Senate Deal Elusive is the source for the above claim.

The core of the dispute is about spending, and how long a stopgap measure that would reopen the government should last. Democrats want the across-the-board cuts known as sequestration to last only through mid-November; Republicans want them to last as long as possible.

Republicans accused Democrats of accepting nothing short of capitulation without offering anything in return. “The Democrats keep moving the goal posts,” said Senator Susan Collins of Maine, one of the lead Republican negotiators. “Decisions within the Democratic conference are constantly changing.”

“You can’t just demand pure capitulation,” said Representative Tom Cole, Republican of Oklahoma. “Negotiations don’t work that way.”

Ah, yes, the party that shut down the government because they couldn't repeal Obamacare is acting like the Democrats are being unreasonable.

the shutdown itself? boehner for trying to save his job by appeasing tp republicans by holding fast to the delay/defund aca nonsense despite EVERYONE knowing that was going nowhere. ideally, he tells tp congressfolk to f-off, passes a cr to keep government running and ( maybe ) loses his speakership. one man's pride caused this mess.

The party that says Obamacare is the law of the land wants to end sequestration which is also the law of the land. Funny isn't it. The left just does not get it, a country cannot keep spending money it does not have, yet they keep wanting more and more. I could accept a tax increase, so long as it goes to pay off debt and not new programs that will just put the country further in the hole. The left really needs to look at Greece and a few other countries of the European Union and how spending and other problems got them into deep financial troubles.

As far as the shutdown is concerned, it's ridiculous to blame anybody but the Republicans.

Politicians....../thread

In their defense, if they find the country is going in a downward spiral, they have no choice but to intervene. The irony becomes that the intervention is going to further restrict growth for the country and is now in a situation where the whole nation is negatively affected.

It truly is a sad time for the US population right now. We Australians had a nightmare of an election recently but it pales in comparison to the problems you guys are amidst right now. I just hope this situation sorts itself out.

The last thing i want to happen is China's Policy of being De-Americanised. If that happens i cant imagine what state the world would be in.

Is it not entirely the fault of the republican party, seeing as they are literally the ones who are doing it? They could pass a budget tomorrow. But they refuse.

The precedent that will be set if Obama caves would be disastrous; basically, if you dont like a law - even if it was passed with the approval of the President, legislature, assessed as suitable by the Supreme Court and approved of by the people over the course of an election - you can just hold the entire nation hostage by refusing to pass a budget until the law is nullified.

It'll essentially become a new filibuster. If something looks likely to pass and you aren't happy with it, tell them not to bother - you wont pass a budget if it goes ahead.


It's not how democracy works. The house seriously needs to reform how budgets are passed, and do away with the debt ceiling entirely seeing as it serves literally no purpsose other than to afford extremists a means of holding a gun to the country's head.

Since fucking when? Sequestration is a desperate measure implemented in a recession (and an excuse to further shaft the poor while giving more money to the rich). More importantly, sequestration is *temporary.* Republicans want to keep it, which is bullshit and will cripple our social programs.

the house has passed a few budgets, the senate will not hold votes on them, that is hardly the fault of the house. granted i have never seen a government budget that did not make the next year worse for we the people than the prior, but to say the house has not passed a budget is a lie, no budget has been endorsed by the senate and the president in the last five years.


little history lesson for those derp derp slow folks out there, the house has the most members and the smallest cycles as well as the powers of the purse because it was designed to be the arm of the government closest to the people, in case the government ever stopped serving the people the house has the power by design to shut down the government. if no deal leads the government into a position where debt will be serviced but 70% of everything else will be cut to fit revenues, that is by design, that is how this system was made to work.

democrats want 110% of everything or else, and republicans want to give them 99% of everything they want and that is not good enough? ok, then you both get near nothing you want and the government turns to a cashflows operation.

The situation in America and in the PIGS countries are completely different.

Let me phrase it a certain way.

The American government is by the people, of the people, and for the people. Who do we blame when it fails?

All of them. Both parties suck ballz and neither of them care about America cause neither party is doing what needs to be done to fix our debt/spending crisis.

This is what many people do not understand. Local governments cannot run deficits, yet people expect the Feds to. The fact that the left constantly wants to give the people something for nothing is why the hole keeps getting deeper and deeper. Get the left to clean up the stuff they already have and cut out the fraud and waste (24,000 tax returns totaling $46.4 million in tax refunds to one address in Atlanta) as well as putting SS income tax money into interest bearing accounts without tapping into it to fund other programs would go a long way to ease the burden on everyone. Start restricting SSI disability payments to those who are really disabled and not those out of workman's comp insurance due to not being able to find a job. Start delving into the practices of law offices and their relationships with doctors who work closely with those lawyers or are even in the lawyer's offices (that should send up red flags all over the place) when someone goes to court to try and get their SSI. If those here in the US haven't seen those commercials from Binder & Binder, who are the biggest SSI law office with the most claims, then maybe one should watch a bit more TV.

Quit letting people game the system then maybe there will be extra money for the new programs that the left wants. Until then, keep out of the taxpayer's pocket.

For the current shutdown? Republicans easily, at least a part of the party. A clean bill has a chance of passing the house. The precedent of holding the country economically hostage is a pretty bad one, especially when the crux of it is trying to repeal something that was passed the correct way, up held by the SC, and having the dems win seats in the House, Senate, and the Presidency after both.

Do we need a long term debt reduction plan? Absolutely. However that's impossible when the economic lively hood of the country, something that directly affects our nations debt, is being held hostage by a group of individuals that want to systematically dismantle our entire entitlement system (and then some).

no facts or figures in this post

i have a feeling that if the government just stopped being so intrusive within the market raising the barriers of entry and up keep costs, the economy would turn over in 6 months, this would have to include allowing competition, major reform and repeals of IP and copyright laws as well as any mandates in OB care.

though welfare does promote stagnation, people do want to be productive, but with the overhead new risky businesses cant take risk they cant start. there is too much downward pressure from the machine as it were. i am personally indifferent if the system fails or turns to a sustainable course.

of course military intervention needs to be cut way back as well as foreign aid, and government pensions eat up close to all personal tax receipts.

a lot of the stuff i dont like and i know is bad can be saved for decades, but that wealth has to come from those who the future payments are collected from. if they cant create that wealth, they sure as heck cat pay it. that is where we are right now, the worst case is that we continue as we are and the world drops us as the reserve currency(it is in the process of happening ), at that point liquid cash will be dumped on the us and the dollar dies.

the fed has been fighting asset deflation with its bad asset purchases, so far that has totaled over a trillion dollars, those are direct bank bailouts, the too big to fails have to fail, the housing market will crash again, unless that hyper inflation happens when the process of dropping the dollar completes.

TLDR: the US has to stop the war on everything, from food choice job choice, from other countries to local idea policing in the form of current IP and patent enforcement , then it can keep its social programs for a few decades. IMHO

Seems like the sequestration bit is all politics. The dems can compromise and lose that part of the deal, so the republicans get to not lose and the dems would get the govt back.

Comparing Greece to the U.S is hilarious, the situations of both countries are not similar in pretty much any way.

85% of it is on Republicans, the remaining 15% goes to the democrats for being incompetent enough to end up in this situation.

If you had bothered to read said linked article, you would also have noticed that come January 1st, deeper automatic cuts go into effect if no deal is reached with regards to the coming up debt reduction talks. As it is right now, with the Democrats not wanting to compromise on anything, it would be them forcing those cuts. As it is now, they want to end sequestration though it is the law without actually doing anything to reduce spending.

Republicans (and by extension Tea Party)

Anybody trying to make it look like it's equally both parties fault is full of shit, there's only one party here that's sabotaging government just to say that government doesn't work. Hell, it's been their strategy nearly the last 5 years to obstruct.

Probably because the Dems have given in a ton on cutting spending... and all that does is make the Repub bolder in their demands and actions.

I totally forgot we're still in a government shutdown - so how is this a bad thing?

I blame Jesus

Whichever party that's celebrating the shutdown is the one to blame.

Clearly one of them wants it.

The Eurozone and the countries around it are experiencing economic problems because of the same retarded austerity policies that your beloved G.O.P is proposing, in addition to their own retarded monetary policy. Basic macroeconomics and math can tell you this.

In response to the O.P., House Republicans are pretty much the cause of the problem. Their proposal is to defund Obamacare - a signature policy of the Obama Administration, and passed by both the House and the Senate and ratified as constitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States - as well as perform more austerity measures in exchange for a six week extension of the debt ceiling. No politician or world leader in their right mind would take this kind of deal, because what it means is that the House Republicans would simply produce more and more economic hostage situations every three fortnights and continue to offer pittances in exchange for massive concessions, most of which would be damaging to the U.S. and harmful to the American people.

Let's flip this politically and see how it would look to right-wingers. Imagine if the Democrats held only the house and only so because of gerrymandering at the district level rather than having more popular support for their representatives. The U.S. is in a war, the G.O.P. has passed a bill banning abortion and same-sex marriage and the Democrats offer a six-week debt ceiling increase in exchange for a massive reduction in military spending, high levels of gun control, a retraction of the abortion ban and a legalization of same-sex marriage. Right-wingers would be crying foul and calling it bullsh!t and rightfully so. The only reasonable response for the President is to invalidate these kinds of tactics by telling the G.O.P. to go fvck themselves and let popular opinion wreck the Republicans, which is what he's already doing and how this situation is already playing out.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/14/shutdown-poll-no-winners-but-gop-bigger-loser-than-dems/?hpt=hp_t5

Not a whole lot of support for the GOP on this one. I tend to agree.

GOP has been planning for the shutdown for months. They had a written plan stemming from a think tank that they followed. The GOP (or influential members) seem to feel ACA is a threat to capitalism and the shutdown was/is a last effort to kill it. The dems are no better, but the GOP caused the shutdown intentionally.

While I think it's easy to blame the entirety of the Republican party, I think the focus should be on the Tea Party House Repubs with Sen. Cruz leading them. Next in line is Speaker Boehner for being completely spineless. Again.

I think it's very important to have discussions about the long term viability of social programs, education and global moetary policy, but pulling this kind of crybaby hostage taking isn't the way to do it.

The Tea Baggers are to blame.

There are enough votes to pass a bill to raise the debt ceiling, pass a budget and keep ObamaCare running. The Tea Baggers are just holding Boehner hostage and HE'S the one that has to bring the bill to the floor. He won't do it because he'll lose his seat if he does.

It's as simple as that.

So, until they give up on that lost cause, the Government will stay CLOSED.

QFT.

For the initial shutdown, it pretty much squarely falls on the GOP - mostly the Tea Party, but, to some extent, Boehner's self-preservation as Speaker. I really didn't think he'd let it go on for this long.

If we default, however, based on offers that the White House turned down by the Senate and House GOP, some of the blame would definitely fall on Obama, but I doubt that will happen.

I find it shocking that most Americans don't have a clue whats going on and just how bad the countries situation is.

I blame the Democrats.