Good video on feminism and "nice guys"

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Avatar image for dkdk999
#1 Posted by dkdk999 (6760 posts) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9XDb0nxSO4 What do you think ?
Avatar image for johnd13
#3 Posted by johnd13 (9256 posts) -

No way am I gonna watch 30 minutes of a woman talking about feminism or whatever.

Avatar image for TrainerCeleste
#4 Posted by TrainerCeleste (1633 posts) -
Too Long Do not want
Avatar image for CycleOfViolence
#5 Posted by CycleOfViolence (2813 posts) -

No way am I gonna watch 30 minutes of a woman talking about feminism or whatever.

johnd13

Avatar image for sune_Gem
#6 Posted by sune_Gem (12463 posts) -

I like girls.

Avatar image for -Toshy-
#7 Posted by -Toshy- (1376 posts) -
No way am I gonna watch 30 minutes of a woman talking about feminism or whatever.johnd13
If it helps any, she's arguing against the thought that nice guys are actually douchers hoping to get laid.
Avatar image for TrainerCeleste
#8 Posted by TrainerCeleste (1633 posts) -
[QUOTE="johnd13"]No way am I gonna watch 30 minutes of a woman talking about feminism or whatever.-Toshy-
If it helps any, she's arguing against the thought that nice guys are actually douchers hoping to get laid.

In that case maybe she's flattering herself thinking that any guy who opens a door for her instantly wants in her pants :P
Avatar image for Omni-Slash
#9 Posted by Omni-Slash (54450 posts) -
30 minute video on Feminism?...maybe I'll watch if she is hot...and naked.....
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#10 Posted by Stevo_the_gamer (44839 posts) -
I think that's too long.
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#11 Posted by SirWander (5176 posts) -

30 minute video on Feminism?...maybe I'll watch if she is hot...and naked.....Omni-Slash

ha, no

Thumbnail

but it's actually interesting, as it draws criticism on the unjustly harsh treatment "feminists" give to "nice guys."

Avatar image for CJL13
#12 Posted by CJL13 (19137 posts) -

I like girls.

sune_Gem

Sexist.

Avatar image for MonsieurX
#13 Posted by MonsieurX (36740 posts) -
I like boobs.
Avatar image for johnd13
#14 Posted by johnd13 (9256 posts) -

I like boobs.MonsieurX

You posting that just gave me a de ja vu.

Avatar image for TehFuneral
#15 Posted by TehFuneral (8237 posts) -

I like nice guys.

Avatar image for Michael0134567
#16 Posted by Michael0134567 (28651 posts) -

I'm a nice guy.

Avatar image for sune_Gem
#17 Posted by sune_Gem (12463 posts) -

[QUOTE="sune_Gem"]

I like girls.

CJL13

Sexist.

Neigh!

Avatar image for TrainerCeleste
#18 Posted by TrainerCeleste (1633 posts) -

[QUOTE="CJL13"]

[QUOTE="sune_Gem"]

I like girls.

sune_Gem

Sexist.

Neigh!

Obvious solution is to like both, that way you aren't sexist
Avatar image for sune_Gem
#19 Posted by sune_Gem (12463 posts) -

[QUOTE="sune_Gem"]

[QUOTE="CJL13"]

Sexist.

TrainerCeleste

Neigh!

Obvious solution is to like both, that way you aren't sexist

Men are icky.

Avatar image for ghoklebutter
#20 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

girlwriteswhat is an MRA who spews some of the most absurd and misogynistic bullsh!t I've ever heard. No thanks.

Fun fact: she thinks that domestic abuse can be beneficial for women.

Also, TC, if you want people to care about this thread, I suggest you summarize this woman's points in your OP or something.

Avatar image for TrainerCeleste
#21 Posted by TrainerCeleste (1633 posts) -

[QUOTE="TrainerCeleste"][QUOTE="sune_Gem"]

Neigh!

sune_Gem

Obvious solution is to like both, that way you aren't sexist

Men are icky.

I know right? JOIN ME MY SEXIST BROTHER OR SISTER
Avatar image for SirWander
#22 Posted by SirWander (5176 posts) -

girlwriteswhat is an MRA who spews some of the most absurd and misogynistic bullsh!t I've ever heard. No thanks.

Fun fact: she thinks that domestic abuse can be beneficial for women.

ghoklebutter

oh, that's appalling.

Avatar image for SaudiFury
#23 Posted by SaudiFury (8709 posts) -

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

girlwriteswhat is an MRA who spews some of the most absurd and misogynistic bullsh!t I've ever heard. No thanks.

Fun fact: she thinks that domestic abuse can be beneficial for women.

SirWander

oh, that's appalling.

can't say i agree with everything she writes, but every once in a while i think she nails it on the head.
Avatar image for sune_Gem
#24 Posted by sune_Gem (12463 posts) -

[QUOTE="sune_Gem"]

[QUOTE="TrainerCeleste"] Obvious solution is to like both, that way you aren't sexist TrainerCeleste

Men are icky.

I know right? JOIN ME MY SEXIST BROTHER OR SISTER

We should all be women.

Avatar image for TrainerCeleste
#25 Posted by TrainerCeleste (1633 posts) -

[QUOTE="TrainerCeleste"][QUOTE="sune_Gem"]

Men are icky.

sune_Gem

I know right? JOIN ME MY SEXIST BROTHER OR SISTER

We should all be women.

I agree, that way there will be no sexist remarks, we will only have one sex, and men won't be putting women down because we will all be women too :O
Avatar image for GazaAli
#26 Posted by GazaAli (25216 posts) -
[QUOTE="SirWander"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

girlwriteswhat is an MRA who spews some of the most absurd and misogynistic bullsh!t I've ever heard. No thanks.

Fun fact: she thinks that domestic abuse can be beneficial for women.

SaudiFury

oh, that's appalling.

can't say i agree with everything she writes, but every once in a while i think she nails it on the head.

You know what they say, even a broken clock is correct twice a day, or something along those lines. As for the video, did not watch and do not want, feminists can go blow themselves. Breaking news, the world does not revolve around you and your vaginas.
Avatar image for TrainerCeleste
#27 Posted by TrainerCeleste (1633 posts) -
Breaking news, the world does not revolve around you and your vaginas. GazaAli
Best quote I've ever seen
Avatar image for jim_shorts
#28 Posted by jim_shorts (7320 posts) -

The concepts of "nice guy" and "the friend zone" just seem like they come from people who are to scared to take the initiative and want to blame the woman for it.

Avatar image for BlackHawk340
#29 Posted by BlackHawk340 (4418 posts) -

Feamle gamers, not all are bad but some are making the stereotype

Hi I am a gurl gamer, I am just as good as a boy so treat me equally, yet they find the need to everytime they come into a gameserver to tell everyone that she is a girl.

When you trow logic in her face you get atleast 5 boys telling you are a jerk because they secretly hope she will like them, you will not get laid over the internet get over it.

My Girlfriend plays some MMO games but I met her in a bar. She also told me she just got free items if someone knew she was a gurl gamer just to brownnose.

yeah ofc she will be nice to you eveyone will if you give free items but you are not getting anything extra (unless its a girl with no class and those are not the ones worth chasing)

So final statement, its not wrong to be nice to girls on the internet, just eb nice as you would be nice to anyone else but dont whiteknight pleasee.(whiteknighting hurts your mancard)

Avatar image for TrainerCeleste
#30 Posted by TrainerCeleste (1633 posts) -

Feamle gamers, not all are bad but some are making the stereotype

Hi I am a gurl gamer, I am just as good as a bioy so treat me equally, yet they find the need to everytime they coem into a gamer server to tell everyone that she is a girl.

When you trow logic in her face you get atleast 5 boys telling you are a jerk because they secretly hope she will like them, you will not get laid over the internet get over it.

My Girlfriend plays some MMO games but I met her in a bar. She also told me she soemtimes just got free items if soemone knew she was a gurl gamers just to brownnose, yeah ofc she will be nice to you eveyone wuill if you give free items but you are not getting anything extra (unless its a girl with no class and those are not the ones worth chasing)

BlackHawk340
It's true I always play as a girl in MMOs I get items sometimes without even talking to people :P It's quite funny :lol: I don't even hide the fact that Im a guy which makes these online nerds seem even more desperate :lol:
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#31 Posted by BlackHawk340 (4418 posts) -

Btw sorry for my bad spelling its late and my native language is dutch :P

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#32 Posted by GazaAli (25216 posts) -

Btw sorry for my bad spelling its late and my native language is dutch :P

BlackHawk340
I stopped reading at "boiy" :lol:
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#33 Posted by TrainerCeleste (1633 posts) -
[QUOTE="BlackHawk340"]

Btw sorry for my bad spelling its late and my native language is dutch :P

GazaAli
I stopped reading at "boiy" :lol:

Urban Dictionary Meaning: boiy how a master gamer says hello to a fu*ktard .. almost spat out .. you are a fuc*tard boiy. male n00b gamer
Avatar image for SaudiFury
#34 Posted by SaudiFury (8709 posts) -

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="SirWander"]

oh, that's appalling.

GazaAli

can't say i agree with everything she writes, but every once in a while i think she nails it on the head.

You know what they say, even a broken clock is correct twice a day, or something along those lines. As for the video, did not watch and do not want, feminists can go blow themselves. Breaking news, the world does not revolve around you and your vaginas.

the thing is she's not a feminist, she's just talking about feminists. i've seen her stuff and other MRA people like Stardusk, Barbarrosa (sp?), and PineGrove (easily the worst of the bunch). As well as seeing the feminist side with like Anita Sarkessian's Feminist Frequency, the ladies and men articles countless video game sites (like right now on Gamespot), and women like Hana Roslin.

and frankly i think they got a point. at the same time though, these people, both groups, when being so fixated on this topic - BOTH of them - strike me as very bitter individuals, or pseudo-intellectuals espousing their view and philosophy. both of them, when given enough time to run their mouths, fall into the trap of villifiying the opposite sex. Or want to continue exsting old crumbling structure, or enable a new kind of chauvinism.

I used to watch all of them to get their perspectives and views, but i quickly grew sick of all of them.

besides personal anecdotal experiences, and from my own reading of the literature, these people are another reason why i do not associate with any of the terms or names.

I know to some people on here, they'll think i'm making a false equivalency. but that's not what i'm saying, most of these people talk about social, cultural aspects of life - most often specifically as it pertains to the Western world. where feminism is no long just about the political rights and opportunities, but now it's almost entirely about the personal being political. Any roadblock personally experienced is viewed within the lense of sexism, privilege, patriarchy, and/or rape culture.

double standards do exist for men, but from what i read from feminists is usually an argument invoking the patriarchy theory (that theory that answers apparently everything for feminists), or at the very least a tepid more or less saying "yeah you might have a point there" then moves on to be an almost entirely gynocentric article.

when on comments sections feminists say "if your for equal pay, and contraceptives and so on, then your a feminist like it or not" is not unlike when the Atheist (like Penn Jillette - who don't get me wrong, i really like the guy) wants to count all the non-religious and agnostics as Atheist, because they are - like it or not. It's like your being drafted even though you might have clear reasons why you might not want to associate or believe as the group.

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#35 Posted by BlackHawk340 (4418 posts) -

Well specially because I care so much about you I edited my post lmao, will you now go out with me?

Are you a archaeologist?

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#36 Posted by GazaAli (25216 posts) -
[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="SaudiFury"] can't say i agree with everything she writes, but every once in a while i think she nails it on the head.

You know what they say, even a broken clock is correct twice a day, or something along those lines. As for the video, did not watch and do not want, feminists can go blow themselves. Breaking news, the world does not revolve around you and your vaginas.

the thing is she's not a feminist, she's just talking about feminists. i've seen her stuff and other MRA people like Stardusk, Barbarrosa (sp?), and PineGrove. As well as seeing the feminist side with like Anita Sarkessian's Feminist Frequency, the ladies and men articles countless video game sites (like right now on Gamespot), and women like Hana Roslin. and frankly i think they got a point. at the same time though, these people, both of them, when being so fixated on this topic - BOTH of them - strike me as very bitter individuals, or pseudo-intellectuals espousing their view and philosophy. both of them, when given enough time to run their mouths, fall into the trap of villifiying the opposite sex. Or want to continue exsting old crumbling structure, or enable a new kind of chauvinism. I used to watch all of them to get their perspectives and views, but i quickly grew sick of all of them. besides personal anecdotal experiences, and from my own reading of the literature, these people are another reason why i do not associate with any of the terms or names. I know to some people on here, they'll think i'm making a false equivalency. but that's not what i'm saying, most of these people talk about social, cultural aspects of life - most often specifically as it pertains to the Western world. where feminism is no long just about the political rights and opportunities, but now it's almost entirely about the personal being political. Any roadblock personally experienced is viewed within the lense of sexism, privilege, patriarchy, and/or rape culture. double standards do exist for men, but from what i read from feminists is usually an argument invoking the patriarchy theory (that theory that answers apparently everything for feminists), or at the very least a tepid more or less saying "yeah you might have a point there" then moves on to be an almost entirely gynocentric article. when on comments sections feminists say "if your for equal pay, and contraceptives and so on, then your a feminist like it or not" is not unlike when the Atheist (like Penn Jillette - who don't get me wrong, i really like the guy) wants to count all the non-religious and agnostics as Atheist, because they are - like it or not. It's like your being drafted even though you might have clear reasons why you might not want to associate or believe as the group.

you hurt my eyes :P Personally, I really do not give two sh!ts about the whole sexism-feminism frenzy. All I want from the opposite sex is a wife of my dreams. I'll be very grateful if I managed to handle one female well enough and have a happy family with :P Though regarding your post, I recently started reading on anthropology and I'm picking some related terminologies and references. Should be interesting to keep it up.
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#37 Posted by SaudiFury (8709 posts) -
[QUOTE="GazaAli"] you hurt my eyes :P Personally, I really do not give two sh!ts about the whole sexism-feminism frenzy. All I want from the opposite sex is a wife of my dreams. I'll be very grateful if I managed to handle one female well enough and have a happy family with :P Though regarding your post, I recently started reading on anthropology and I'm picking some related terminologies and references. Should be interesting to keep it up.

i'm sorry about it being mashed together, i edited it to break it up some more. for some reason GS forums like to mash my broken sections into one giant mess. sometimes i can't even edit it :(
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#38 Posted by CKYguy25 (2087 posts) -

that video is way too long to sit through

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#39 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

I finally watched the video, and I wasn't impressed. And I certainly regret sitting through that for 30 minutes.

There are three main reasons so many women (not just feminist women, by the way, but also many men and non-feminist women) dislike "nice guys". First, "nice guys" assume that, by being nice, they should be rewarded with reciprocated romantic and/or sexual feelings. She obscures this point by saying that, because they make an effort to get the attention of women they like, they don't have feelings of entitlement. In truth, the feelings of entitlement are found in the assumption that sex/romance is the reward for being nice. Second, most "nice guys" do, in fact, see male-female friendship as something to be avoided, yet the woman in this video ignores this reality. Third, a large number of "nice guys" are, in fact, sexist.

The rest of her video consists of irrelevant facts about psychology, baseless stereotypes of feminist women that reek of misogyny, and straw man arguments against feminists. 0/10 would not watch again

"Nice guys" can easily solve their romantic and/or sexual woes by 1) being honest about their attraction to the women they like (by, you know, actually telling them about their feelings) 2) getting over rejection and 3) looking for other people who will actually share their feelings.

Avatar image for SaudiFury
#40 Posted by SaudiFury (8709 posts) -

I finally watched the video, and I wasn't impressed. And I certainly regret sitting through that for 30 minutes.

There are three main reasons so many women (not just feminist women, by the way, but also many men and non-feminist women) dislike "nice guys". First, "nice guys" assume that, by being nice, they should be rewarded with reciprocated romantic and/or sexual feelings. She obscures this point by saying that, because they make an effort to get the attention of women they like, they don't have feelings of entitlement. In truth, the feelings of entitlement are found in the assumption that sex/romance is the reward for being nice. Second, most "nice guys" do, in fact, see male-female friendship as something to be avoided, yet the woman in this video ignores this reality. Third, a large number of "nice guys" are, in fact, sexist.

The rest of her video consists of irrelevant facts about psychology, baseless stereotypes of feminist women that reek of misogyny, and straw man arguments against feminists. 0/10 would not watch again

"Nice guys" can easily solve their romantic and/or sexual woes by 1) being honest about their attraction to the women they like (by, you know, actually telling them about their feelings) 2) getting over rejection and 3) looking for other people who will actually share their feelings.

ghoklebutter
you kinda fall into the trap though, how do you know that most 'nice guys' are in fact merely snakes in the grass? Not to mention create your caricature of the 'nice guy'. honestly aside from her own stereotyping and strawmen, i think she brought up a different side of the coin. Like a lot of these things i tend to think of them as more nuanced and based around communication, fear of rejection (and who honestly wants that), and mutual expectations. it's not like every nice guy out there is just putting the face on whenever a lady they're interested in comes into the picture. and i don't think it's as clear cut as you say at the end. many of the relationships i've seen, and have had, developed first out of friendship and stumbled into relationship. Even with myself, it's not like i don't want female friendship, but sometimes with some of my good girl-friends in the back of my head is that thought of possibly more. It's not like your devoid of such thoughts and feelings.
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#41 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

you kinda fall into the trap though, how do you know that most 'nice guys' are in fact merely snakes in the grass? Not to mention create your caricature of the 'nice guy'. honestly aside from her own stereotyping and strawmen, i think she brought up a different side of the coin. Like a lot of these things i tend to think of them as more nuanced and based around communication, fear of rejection (and who honestly wants that), and mutual expectations. it's not like every nice guy out there is just putting the face on whenever a lady they're interested in comes into the picture. and i don't think it's as clear cut as you say at the end. many of the relationships i've seen, and have had, developed first out of friendship and stumbled into relationship. Even with myself, it's not like i don't want female friendship, but sometimes with some of my good girl-friends in the back of my head is that thought of possibly more. It's not like your devoid of such thoughts and feelings.SaudiFury

I'll qualify that by saying that I'm referring to the "nice guys" I know and the "nice guys" I've heard many women I know complain about. Nevertheless, the "nice guy" is well-defined, and, having understood the definition of "nice guy", I don't think highly of them even when they aren't sexist, creepy, etc. And that's because I'm not fond of people who think that being nice to the people they like is merely one way to be rewarded with intimacy of some kind. I have a little more sympathy for the well-intentioned ones, but not much more.

I understand that many of them have a fear of rejection - and I myself have that fear - but it's a crippling fear. Of course no one likes being rejected, but to literally have a strong fear of rejection is simply unhealthy. As for communication, sometimes being open by clearly telling them how you feel is an important part of that communication.

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#42 Posted by sune_Gem (12463 posts) -

[QUOTE="sune_Gem"]

[QUOTE="TrainerCeleste"] I know right? JOIN ME MY SEXIST BROTHER OR SISTERTrainerCeleste

We should all be women.

I agree, that way there will be no sexist remarks, we will only have one sex, and men won't be putting women down because we will all be women too :O

And we could all have showers together.

Avatar image for dkdk999
#43 Posted by dkdk999 (6760 posts) -

I finally watched the video, and I wasn't impressed. And I certainly regret sitting through that for 30 minutes.

There are three main reasons so many women (not just feminist women, by the way, but also many men and non-feminist women) dislike "nice guys". First, "nice guys" assume that, by being nice, they should be rewarded with reciprocated romantic and/or sexual feelings. She obscures this point by saying that, because they make an effort to get the attention of women they like, they don't have feelings of entitlement. In truth, the feelings of entitlement are found in the assumption that sex/romance is the reward for being nice. Second, most "nice guys" do, in fact, see male-female friendship as something to be avoided, yet the woman in this video ignores this reality. Third, a large number of "nice guys" are, in fact, sexist.

The rest of her video consists of irrelevant facts about psychology, baseless stereotypes of feminist women that reek of misogyny, and straw man arguments against feminists. 0/10 would not watch again

"Nice guys" can easily solve their romantic and/or sexual woes by 1) being honest about their attraction to the women they like (by, you know, actually telling them about their feelings) 2) getting over rejection and 3) looking for other people who will actually share their feelings.

ghoklebutter
How does the term "nice guy" imply their entitled to sex ? She didn't say that "because they make an effort to get the attention of the women they like, they don't have feelings of entitlement" at all. And I don't see how not wanting to be friends with women is even relevant.
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#44 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -
[QUOTE="dkdk999"][ How does the term "nice guy" imply their entitled to sex ? She didn't say that "because they make an effort to get the attention of the women they like, they don't have feelings of entitlement" at all. And I don't see how not wanting to be friends with women is even relevant.

She didn't say those exact words - that's why I paraphrased her. And the part about friends is relevant because she attempts to counter the notion that "nice guys" don't care about friendship. I'm saying that she's ignoring the fact that there are "nice guys" who do, in fact, dislike male-female friendship because all they care about is having intimacy of some kind. Being a "nice guy" doesn't merely mean that you think you're entitled to sex. It means that you think that, if you're nice enough to women, then you should get intimacy of some kind (sexual or otherwise) in return.
Avatar image for dkdk999
#45 Posted by dkdk999 (6760 posts) -
[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="dkdk999"][ How does the term "nice guy" imply their entitled to sex ? She didn't say that "because they make an effort to get the attention of the women they like, they don't have feelings of entitlement" at all. And I don't see how not wanting to be friends with women is even relevant.

She didn't say those exact words - that's why I paraphrased her. And the part about friends is relevant because she attempts to counter the notion that "nice guys" don't care about friendship. I'm saying that she's ignoring the fact that there are "nice guys" who do, in fact, dislike male-female friendship because all they care about is having intimacy of some kind. Being a "nice guy" doesn't merely mean that you think you're entitled to sex. It means that you think that, if you're nice enough to women, then you should get intimacy of some kind (sexual or otherwise) in return.

ok go on.
Avatar image for Lockedge
#46 Posted by Lockedge (16765 posts) -
Ah, GirlWritesWhat...an interesting person who manages to make decent points about 25% of the time, but usually wraps them in misogyny, or enforces her argument by cherrypicking events in history. I tend to shy away from the "nice guy" debate myself because I find the term entirely too static for the amount of variation within its supposed population. it ends up being more of a stereotype like "tomboy". In the end, anyone who feels entitled to another's affection is an idiot. Instead of using the term "nice guy" or whatever, why not just call people out when they use that excuse? "I'm not going to date him he's a 'nice guy'...ugh." Why not just say the dude's acting entitled? "Leona's a b****, I don't get why she's not interested in me. I'm a nice guy!" It's because she doesn't like you, she doesn't need any more reason than that. I just think the "nice guy" is a waste of time to talk about. It ties up a lot of social issues into a nice arbitrary package that ends up making the root causes, like how people call youth assault and harassment "Bullying".
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#47 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

Ah, GirlWritesWhat...an interesting person who manages to make decent points about 25% of the time, but usually wraps them in misogyny, or enforces her argument by cherrypicking events in history. I tend to shy away from the "nice guy" debate myself because I find the term entirely too static for the amount of variation within its supposed population. it ends up being more of a stereotype like "tomboy". In the end, anyone who feels entitled to another's affection is an idiot. Instead of using the term "nice guy" or whatever, why not just call people out when they use that excuse? "I'm not going to date him he's a 'nice guy'...ugh." Why not just say the dude's acting entitled? "Leona's a b****, I don't get why she's not interested in me. I'm a nice guy!" It's because she doesn't like you, she doesn't need any more reason than that. I just think the "nice guy" is a waste of time to talk about. It ties up a lot of social issues into a nice arbitrary package that ends up making the root causes, like how people call youth assault and harassment "Bullying".Lockedge

Heh, I thought I was the only person here who knew about GWW. :V

Anyway, you have a good point. Aside from what you've said about the label, another problem with the "nice guy" label in my view is that it gives others the impression that women who don't like "nice guys" only care about guys who are total jerks (thereby feeding some already nasty misogynistic stereotypes). The evidence for that consequence is how pick-up artists use the label in order to put forth their own theories about dating women (none of which I find very nice or egalitarian).

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#48 Posted by Lockedge (16765 posts) -

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]Ah, GirlWritesWhat...an interesting person who manages to make decent points about 25% of the time, but usually wraps them in misogyny, or enforces her argument by cherrypicking events in history. I tend to shy away from the "nice guy" debate myself because I find the term entirely too static for the amount of variation within its supposed population. it ends up being more of a stereotype like "tomboy". In the end, anyone who feels entitled to another's affection is an idiot. Instead of using the term "nice guy" or whatever, why not just call people out when they use that excuse? "I'm not going to date him he's a 'nice guy'...ugh." Why not just say the dude's acting entitled? "Leona's a b****, I don't get why she's not interested in me. I'm a nice guy!" It's because she doesn't like you, she doesn't need any more reason than that. I just think the "nice guy" is a waste of time to talk about. It ties up a lot of social issues into a nice arbitrary package that ends up making the root causes, like how people call youth assault and harassment "Bullying".ghoklebutter

Heh, I thought I was the only person here who knew about GWW. :V

Anyway, you have a good point. Aside from what you've said about the label, another problem with the "nice guy" label in my view is that it gives others the impression that women who don't like "nice guys" only care about guys who are total jerks (thereby feeding some already nasty misogynistic stereotypes). The evidence for that consequence is how pick-up artists use the label in order to put forth their own theories about dating women (none of which I find very nice or egalitarian).

Oh lawd, the PUA community is...rancid. But yeah, I hate the manufactured dichotomy. She doesn't like me, and I'm a nice guy, so she must like jerks. I heard that tripe all the time in high school. There was a girl I was friends with who I kept telling my friends was single and looking. She was really good looking, though, and they ended up not talking to her at all. A few months later she settles for this relatively average guy witha fairly abrasive personality, because no one else would ask her out, and she was pretty desperate at that point. And then my friends said she was a b**** and was proof that girls only date jerks. Just baffling logic. The option was clearly open, they had an in through me, and they didn't take it. So they use the "nice guy" trope to cover up their own inability to go up give it a shot, which isn't fair to her. I mean, she could have asked a guy out, but that's neither here nor there (it was taboo in my school and any girl who did it would be shamed as a lesbian, and there were some real consequences for any visible/assumed/known LBG people) . I don't think it's difficult to approach someone with the mindset that not everyone is compatible.
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#49 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

I don't think it's difficult to approach someone with the mindset that not everyone is compatible.Lockedge

I know, right? A related mindset that people need to adopt is that rejection does not imply the end of the world. And maybe people should, well, try to see if they can be friends with people they have a romantic/sexual interest in. I know it's not always easy, but it certainly is possible for many people.

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#50 Posted by SaudiFury (8709 posts) -

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]I don't think it's difficult to approach someone with the mindset that not everyone is compatible.ghoklebutter

I know, right? A related mindset that people need to adopt is that rejection does not imply the end of the world. And maybe people should, well, try to see if they can be friends with people they have a romantic/sexual interest in. I know it's not always easy, but it certainly is possible for many people.

I agree, and personally speaking i've tried managing friendships even with people i've at one point or another had strong feelings for. There was one where i had to distance myself, was an Arab girl i really liked, and i had known as a friend for years, i told her how i felt, and she turned me down. which sucked, took me a few days to get fully over it and out of my system, but those sad feelings just bubbled up again when she wanted someone to vent to about her bf. and i'm not kidding, i don't know, or think she took into account, that i still harbored some feelings even though i didn't count on any relationship or expect one. so it just made things a little depressing for me and distanced myself pretty greatly. and i didn't know if it was appropriate if i should tell her that i still had feelings, and it wasn't particularly 'cool; to vent to me about your lover. Just cause i didn't wanna come off as like desperate, or immature if i told her, or thinking of getting pity 'love'. blah, just figured i'd share.