German Court considers Vigilant Sharia Police broke no laws

Link

Better Source The Guardian

Guardian Update

A German court has ruled that a group of Islamists did not break the law in forming “sharia police” street patrols and telling people to stop drinking, gambling and listening to music.

The ultra-conservative Muslim group around the German Salafist convert Sven Lau sparked public outrage with their vigilante patrols in the western city of Wuppertal in 2014, but prosecutors have struggled to build a case against them.

The city’s district court ruled that the seven accused members of the group did not breach a ban on political uniforms when they approached people while wearing orange vests bearing the words “Sharia Police”.

Judges said there could only be a violation of the law – originally aimed against street movements such as the early Nazi party – if the uniforms were “suggestively militant or intimidating”, a court spokesman said.

In this case, they found that the vests were not threatening and noted that one witness said he thought the men were part of a bachelor party.

The same court had already thrown out the case last year, but was overruled on appeal by a higher court which agreed with prosecutors that the ban on uniforms could be applied in this case.

Monday’s verdict is not yet final and may still be appealed.

The “sharia police” members walked the streets of Wuppertal in September 2014, telling nightclub-goers to refrain from drinking alcohol and listening to music, and arcade customers not to play games for money.

Lau, the organiser, is one of Germany’s most controversial and best-known Islamist preachers. He is currently on trial in a separate case on charges of backing “a terrorist group” fighting in Syria.

So-called “sharia patrols” by sometimes violent radical young Salafists have also been seen in other European cities such as London, Copenhagen and Hamburg.

need a better source

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/germany-sharia-police-court-ruling

The headline is very misleading:

1. The decision was ground on them being able to present their beliefs. Much like Jehovah's witnesses, and street preachers, that is free speech and in so far as that it was okay... EXCEPT...

2. They go beyond just preaching. They wear uniforms and intimidate and harass. By German law they should not be allowed to wear those uniforms, and they definitely shouldn't be intimidating or harassing people.

However, I think the problem was chief problem with the case is it was grounded more on 1 rather than 2. Without a full idea of what facts were presented and such, can't really be sure whether it was a good decision or not.

Thank you! Will update the post in a jiffy

One would think Germany would have grown a spine by now.

Sven Lau is white too so I can say anything I want about him without being called racist.

Germany won't grow a spine until Mother Merkel is out of power next year.

Hmm, or one could think that Germany is still a land where law matters, so when we have people who are just using their freedom to speak their mind. it was not enough by law to convict and sentence them, and to be fair that is good.

You may disagree with them and dislike what they are doing, but law is law and the burden of proof have to be filled otherwise Germany will be a banana republic.

Merkel has said on multiple instances that she wants to see ethnic Germans be a thing of the past. This is what it looks like when a culture commits suicide.

Germany has always been big on groups intimidating others so it's no surprise with the ruling.

Here's to hoping that Mother Merkel is out of power next year after the Federal election

We don't know what evidence was presented in the courtroom. All we have are unreliable media reports to go on. If it's just number 1, then it's a non-story. But if it's number 2, then the victims should come forward and prosecute them for intimidation.

How great would it be to put on armor and troll them as the crusader police.

Maybe an orange vest over your chain mail with a big ass cross on the back.

Lol.

Anyway these guys suck, here is some video of them fucking with people in the UK.

They already exist, and they're just as obnoxious: Britain First, a Neo-Nazi organization that does "Christian patrols" in the UK.

For the record, both the "Sharia patrol" guys and a "Christian patrol" leader have been convicted of harassment in UK courts.

OP have you ever been to Germany? Or even Europe for that matter?

LOL good luck with that.

Germany is lost. Every single institution of power is infiltrated by leftist garbage. The entire media establishment is violently left wing. If you, as a private citizen, have right wing views on anything other than solely economic topics, then the Amadeus Antonio Foundation will track you down and add you to their list of "extremists". And guess what, the foundation's boss is a former STASI agent. You really couldn't make this shit up.

It's funny that for the THIRD time in a century, Germany has found a way to screw the rest of Europe.

Fear based policies is growing a spine?

Angela Merkel has been good to germany. Growing the economy by a fairly respectable margin. While she is running into some rather tough times as shown by declining approval ratings (though those are currently based on emotion caused by recent events). It is worth noting that statistically, refugees have similar crime rates compared to natives. While the average german (both refugee and native) have significantly lower than the USA. There is a reason Politifact rated Trump's statement on germany's crime rate as mostly false. The increase of crime has to do with the population surge.

That is something I see overlooked so often.

The worst is when they outright believe these sharia patrols are government sponsored.

Not an expert on German law though Germany should NOT allow non government entities to make their own laws no matter how peaceful it is. Also.....that borders on harassment.

Somebody should establish "hedonism enforcement patrols" by way of response. Everybody who looks too ascetic gets a beer, a spliff and some erotica thrust into his hands.

:-)

I thought Christian Patrols were made to counter the Sharia Patrols that started to harass non-muslim bystanders? Granted, that was a dumb move on their part.

But then, a lot of these are the kind of people who'd believe Obama is the "founder of ISIS". Boring things like "facts" and "statistics" just don't matter to them. Exciting conspiracy theories are what they find enticing.

"Sharia police" in western countries needs to f**k-off. These fools wants another Iran 1979 cultural revolution i.e. turning near-modern society into middle ages backwards society. The Islamic ideology is a problem.

Drinking alcohol is fine with moderation. In a western religious context, Jesus Christ's early miracle was to turn water into wine and my point is drinking beverages with alcohol is fine with moderation.

Wonder if the sharia police would/have tried their crap in the north/northeast of England. Imagine those morons trying to tell the cast of geordie shore not to drink or cover themselves up.

What pisses me off most is that these people are disrespectful of the native laws and traditions.

I have to agree with a statement I came across elsewhere. That radical islam, is not limited to terrorism.

The idea of a Sharia law police, not just attempting to enforcing Islamic law to delcared Muslims by birth or choice is frightening. And sharia law patrols do have police like powers in some countries like Malaysia. Where they raid apartments of unmarried Muslim couples. But harrasing and degrading people in public. Puts them in a league with Westboro baptist church. So as much as western leaders want to bring democracy to the middle east. There is a demand for sharia law.

It's not against the law... but damn I hate evangelical religious people. Get out of my face, I don't need you and I certainly didn't ask for your 'advise'. If I needed you I think I'm perfectly able to find you on my own. Mind your god damn own lives and leave me out of it. /rant

I'm confused. Are you agreeing with the decision or are you saying that the Westboro Baptist Church needs to be banned as well?

I agree that these people are bad, but I don't see how them being Muslim means it should be outlawed when non-muslim groups like Pegida and Britain First are allowed to operate.

@Riverwolf007: Very few things give me close to blind rage in wanting to pick a fight with some one.. This is definitely one of them.. These assholes need to be deported from the country if they do not desist from this crap.

I think what these guys are doing and what the WBC are doing are two completely different things.. The WBC operates within the realms of the law and pickets with signs.. They don't patrol areas and harass and possibly assault people like I have been hearing (if true) in Germany.

I don't ever think of this as a big American problem because here we are allowed to shoot someone that threatens your life but all these disarmed populations in Europe just have to take it, submit or run away. There is no defense for them, just submission or beatings or the threats of beatings.

The westboro baptists will never be any kind of real threat because they know the moment they want to stomp someones skull in they are rolling the dice.

Here is what happens when the population is safe from getting stomped on.

Except the court said they were operating within the law.

Do you have any evidence that the group that went to trial had harassed or assaulted anyone? I have no doubt that there have been some Muslim activists that do that, but you can't charge someone for a crime someone else committed simply because you both have the same religion.

@toast_burner: I'm somewhat neutral on the actual decision. As I am not familiar with German law. And I don't want to bother reading up the case in detail. In regards to my comment of "in the same league" as Westboro. I mean a group of people. That harass people well beyond the point of consent. And while that kinda sounds like a broad statement. I'll use the example of a Sharia patrol harrasing a stranger, for just wearing a skirt. As something I find troubling. But more so when such groups, want to force sharia law into legislation.

I don't want Westboro banned. As I understand the constitution significance of doing so. I do however, will not want a Malaysia like sharia police in America. That carries around a list of Muslims, who may not even be practicing Islam anymore. And arrests a couple, for simply living together unmarried.

You do realise that these "sharia police" and "sharia courts" have absolutely no legal power whatsoever? Nor is there any indication of there being any plans to give them power.

@toast_burner: In Malaysia, the sharia police have arrest powers for anyone declared a Muslim. And sharia courts can issue punishments, that include jail time and lashes.

"Fifty-two unmarried Muslim couples face charges of sexual misconduct and possible jail terms after being caught alone in hotel rooms by Malaysia's Islamic morality police."

"The detained, mostly students and young factory workers, are expected to be charged with 'khalwat,' or 'close proximity'."

"In Selangor, 'khalwat' carries a maximum penalty of two years in prison and a fine."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1240510/Malaysian-police-arrest-52-unmarried-Muslim-couples-hotel-rooms.html

And whats Malaysia got to do with Germany?

@toast_burner: By "these", I interpreted it as sharia police are powerless on an international scale. And I suppose you were intending to refer to Germany.

Well it doesn't make much sense to compare two things that have nothing in common except the name.

Especially since Malaysia is literally a theocracy lol.

Also, Muslims aren't the only religion that does this. Orthodox Jews for example have dumb "rules" in certain neighbourhoods.

@perfect_blue: I am actually very well aware of strict jewish sects. I used to do catering with them. And worked in a Synagogue. Along with knowing about the Shorim.

It should also be noted that jewish sects, particularly strict ones. Aren't really interested in converting people. Unless you can prove your family has a jewish background.

I've long believed that the Westboro Baptist Church did a great deal to advance the cause of LGBT rights in the US.

Absurd? Think about it for a moment: The church's views were always too extreme to be taken seriously. However, by highlighting the ugliness of anti-gay bigotry, they almost certainly galvanized public sentiment in favor of gay rights.

For me, the only question is whether that was an ironic outcome, or whether the church secretly wanted that outcome!

Again, before you dismiss that idea as absurd, just watch the confrontation between Pastor Fred Phelps and Michael Moore in Michael Moore's 1999 "Sodomobile" video. Look at Fred's face when he sees the bus! Listen to his wistful voice and look at his longing expression when he says: "You don't want me in there!" [in the bus]

Godammit man! Fred WANTED TO BE IN THAT BUS!

Here's the video. The moment Fred is introduced to the Sodomobile is as at 4:15.

@Stesilaus: Your probably right on the LGBT thing. Although I really was thinking about the protesting veterans funerals aspect. As that was likely the main reason the Supreme court took the case.

that's some good outside the box thinking.

Germany is becoming like Sweden.

In the UK they have already had people jailed for it.. Germany we have footage right on youtube of them harassing people, we aren't talking about picketing on a side of the road but patrolling and getting into peoples face, intimidating them. Furthermore Germany's government has a huge history currently in covering up this shit.. The Cologne mass sexual assault for the longest time had the police basically try to disavow that it wasn't the economic migrants what so ever.. There was also another horrible case in Sweden in which a woman in a wheel chair was gang raped by a group of men for 5 hours, in which the judge did not convict them because "she didn't struggle enough".. It's a false equivalency is my point in comparing these people to the WBC is my point.

Fact of the matter is there are numerous absolutely abhorrent cases in which judges and the system within the Europe give leeway towards migrants after doing something horrible..

If any of these groups harass me or anyone in my family I'll go predator on there ass or Oberon Martell the **** out them.

Germany is finished. In 20 years it will be an Islamic State.

Merkel called for banning the burqa and niqab a few days ago.

Yeah that wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that her party got their asses trounced last election.

... They got trounced by the left-wing. Merkel and her party (CDU) are right-wing in Germany.