Game of Thrones Season 8 Final discussion thread! (Spoilers discussion included)

Things went kind of how I would expected them to go: Since Cersei is ruler now and people are pretty uninformed, she can just lie about her attacker and make the people believe the usurper is just mad and is coming to kill everyone.

It would make a lousy first impression from Dany if she were to burn everyone, like the last mad targareayan. And I have to agree with the author of one article about the episode, that it feels a bit weird for Dany to rush everything like that. But hey, maybe she still has about 12 live service games to get to at home and she can't fall behind.

#witchhunt #nocollusion

That's what I mean: these people weren't informed by the digital webs like in these times were everyone can distinguish right from wrong easily.

yeah me too.

ep4 was really bad. was hoping / expecting they would explain some of the "unlikely" events from the last episode. but they didn't. instead they gave us a load more. and each with far less spectacle and visual aplomb than in the previous episode. seriously bad episode all round. booooooo

I really enjoyed Episode 4, its the best episode of this rushed season so far, and much better than the "Battle of Winterfell". I cannot forgive those responsible for episode 3 due to the lack of balls in failing to kill off major characters, particularly after that fireside chat in Episode 2. I was certain half of those in that room would be dead in a MAJOR battle with the NK and his wights. They decided to kill off a bunch of people whose arc was already finished. The only person I will miss from the dead is Lady Mormont, she steals every scene she is in. Episode 3 was a letdown. I miss George Martins books.

Sure, you did have to suspend your disbelief at times in Episode 4 (and then there was the Starbucks cup), but you know what? I was entertained and intrigued the entire episode. Everyone who has watched since season 7 should know these episodes would have to be unfortunately rushed to the finish line. It has to be done. What I didn't like was not seeing Bran explain that Jon is Targaryen/Stark mix and heir to the throne, and subsequently seeing the Stark girls reactions. They should have taken a moment there. I thought for sure Tyrion was a dead man walking up to Cersi like that. But overall, I enjoyed it.

Episode 1 = 8.0/10 (one of the best first episodes of any season and nice set up for the short season)

Episode 2 = 8.0/10 (great interactions and added depth in preparation for impending doom, Arya gets laid!)

Episode 3 = 7.5/10 (engaging enough, but the doom really didn't come despite major characters being covered in wights, Lyanna Mormont went out with a bang but Dothroki were slaughtered as fodder with no forethought or strategy, night king killed in one episode is ridiculous)

Episode 4 = 8.5/10 (many good moments, Tyrion and Varys had a great conversation, one of Dannys dragons dies, and the 2 major potential rulers bump heads at the end)

Unfortunately Season 8, like 7, is rushed, so I'm not as impressed as I was in earlier seasons. The scores I've given are good, but they are low for my 3rd favorite show all-time. This show won't likely pass Breaking Bad or The Wire for me unless the last 2 episodes are phenomenal, which without Martins books as a guide, is doubtful.

"Since the direwolves are kind of CG creations, we felt it best to keep it as simple as possible. And I think that it played out much more powerfully that way," he said.

"Keeping Ghost off to the side, I thought that played out better"

This is an actual quote from one of the writers.....I mean...lol

I seriously hope GRRM can finish the books.

This is how stupid they think we are.

Wow.

HBO has very smart people (executives, producers), I'm sure some are contemplating if they are in the middle of a disaster.

The thing is, I still find the show enjoyable. I'm just invested since I love it. The criticism is warranted IMO.

Dragon killed by invisible fleet that they knew about: Check.

Bron shows up out of no where and no one notices: Check.

Cersie has everyone with in 'magic ballista' range and decides not to kill them: Check.

It's absurd.

Thinking back at the shows that "went away" before doing the splitting the last in two (Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad) The Sopranos is the one that stand out for its controversial ending but that what circumscribed specifically to the literal ending (people didn't thought the last season what bad, they just didn't liked the ending specifically. And even then some, not all, but some have come around to appreciate that ending.

I thought The Sopranos ending was "ok" but since I didn't saw the series contemporaneously I had heard about the ending and had a notion of what it entails.

A bad ending to a highly acclaimed series, at least in my opinion, is the Seinfeld ending. But it doesn't hurt it because Seinfeld isn't an arc story that was moving toward a real conclusion. One can simply discard the ending and thoroughly enjoy the other 171 episodes. Game of Thrones won't have that benefit, if they **** up the ending it might hinder the "rewatchability" of the show as a whole.

Indeed, it seems like they're more interested in going for unexpected shocks at this point too rather than a logical conclusion to the show which we've all been watching for 8 years now. I dunno if they're keen on subverting expectations to spite fan theorists or leakers... who knows. I've been very disappointed with the last two episodes in particular though. Everyone is acting really dumb, and it seems like a few characters have had personality transplants. :(

Will be interesting to see how George Martin's ending compares with Dan and Dave's once the book finally comes out, sensing it will be more coherent and in tone with the previous material than Season 8 however. Yeah man, I share your frustrations. What really gets me is how they've spent 8 years hyping up the threat posed by the others/white walkers and how it's the greatest threat facing Westeros. Something so ominous that it makes the 'Game of Thrones' seem like a trivial petty squabble in comparison, and instead everyone should band together to have any hope of surviving the onslaught. In the book the way the last long night is described gives you goosebumps.

"Thousands of years ago, there came a night that lasted a generation. Kings froze to death in their castles, same as the shepherds in their huts; and women smothered their babies rather than see them starve, and wept, and felt the tears freeze on their cheeks... In that darkness the White Walkers came for the first time. They swept through cities and kingdoms, riding their dead horses, hunting with their packs of pale spiders big as hounds."

And in the show the long night lasts... 125 mins? So the Night King (who isn't even mentioned in the book) is turned into a textbook supervillain to be defeated in one episode like this is Scooby Doo or something, and Cersei is the true challenge to overcome? That's one heck of an anticlimax, and sorta kills my interest in watching the last couple of episodes. We know next to nothing about what the motivations of the white walkers were, the history or the impact and aftermath might have been across the different kingdoms across Westeros. Instead of 2 episodes of drinking games, hooking up, and fireplace conversations we could have had more time devoted to what I thought the whole point of the show was supposed to be about... the others! You're right, it is just a bunch of fan service at this point. RIP Game of Thrones.

Mhm, they just wanna be done and dusted so they can get started on their Star Wars trilogy. ?

They're making a star wars show? Actually, I don't mind that because they don't sub their customers like Disney+.

Game of thrones is going the same route of spinoffs, like how Walking Dead went. So, HBO is not entirely done with that. They recently revealed a new Watchmen show so I think that will be the new frontrunner, which is part of the DC universe. Superheros is the new trend now.

@watercrack445: Potentially, I think the contract's in the works. D&D have that other show they wanted to work on as well though - what would have happened if the south won the Civil War I think it was.

I think they're fed up with Game of Thrones now though, at least that's the impression I get watching this season.

Dungeons and Dragons?

@watercrack445: ?

Nah, David Benioff and Daniel Weiss I mean.

I saw Watchman trailer not to long ago for HBO and I think the Star Wars series is the Mandalorian series I do believe. I forgot all about Disney+ and I already have Netflix, HBO, & Amazon. I can't keep sub to these wannabe stream apps.

@davillain-: HBO is making a Watchmen series? Please be good, I love the comic! Read it twice and some parts countless times. The movie didn't do it justice at all.

Yes, but it isn't a re-telling of the comic. More of a sequel/re-imagining.

@Master_Live: Thanks for the link, it looks interesting. I like the idea of an original story in the same universe.

Is it too late to ask for a link?

@watercrack445: There are actually three spin offs in the making right now.

I rarely go to Reddit, but if you want a direct link, click here: Season 8 Episode 5 - Episode Threads

@davillain-: Thank you

YIKES! All those people that named their child Daenerys in real life... you made a BAD call.

@BenjaminBanklin: Haha, I can't wait for her to die!

Loved this episode. Only thing I didn't like was how easy the dragon dodged the scorpions after they had aim assist last week.

That was a bloodbath.

lol

was thinking that this morning...

all hail king gendry!

curious how much of a tantrum the internet is going to throw today.

agree on both counts.

the fact she just flew up on her dragon and killed all of the anti-dragon weapons was kinda ridiculous.

but it was the most exciting and surprising episode they've done in a while (which imo is a good thing), and the best ep so far this season. I know lots of Dany fans who are going to be very upset lol but I think they foreshadowed this enough to get away with it

that was utterly blockbusting tv. dany has well and truly burnt her bridges now ba dum tss. arya surely now nailed on to kill her and jon to take the throne and tame the dragon. the reddit post episode discussion has got some great quotes in there

Jon: I got 99 problems but a bitch ain’t-

Jon: 100 problems. I now have 100 problems.

This episode was much better. I'm on board with Dany's transformed persona as the mad queen...but it seems forced and rushed to me. Perhaps some more exposition and a lengthier season could have helped this. With that being said, the Euron/Jamie fight scene was lame and excessive. He's an awful character and his last line of the series is evidence of this. And while we're talking about Jaime, I just can't help but feel that they erased a lot of this character arc by having him return to Cersei.

With that being said, cinematography was great and I was pleasantly surprised after last weeks episode. Thank god they nerfed the OP scorpions and the Cleganebowl happened.

Best episode of the season by far. Surprisingly, there was never a battle. The dragon simply obliterated everything even though last episode showed that the scorpions would be a decent defense against it. But nope, not this time. Still, a satisfying ending for Varys, Jaime, Cercei, as well as the Cleganes.

@johnd13: agreed

don't agree with all that tbh. as a wordsmith it would've been more fitting for varys to have said something... anything, before he popped his clogs particularly as his instincts were ultimately proven right. jamie and cersei are probably not dead (so many times in the last few episodes we've seen the camera cut away from characters seemingly a moment away from imminent death, yet they somehow survive). the last i can agree with. what a way for sandor to go

I suspect Varys made preparations knowing that he didn't have much time left. His dialogue with the servant girl and, most prominently, the written messages could be proof that he took action against Dany. His role was then fulfilled - no need to say anything really. Plus, him saying goodbye to his "old friend" Tyrion was a sad and touching moment. They've been through a lot together.

I think Jamie and Cercei really died tbh. Regardless of everything they've done, with Jaime displaying the largest change of character during the show, they came together once again like they've always been. It will be hard to find their bodies under all that rubble and subsequently, tough to prove they're really dead but they've served their purpose.

maybe you're right... that's another good thing about the episode - the set up for the finale is fascinating. could go many different ways. can't wait to see how it ends!

I loved this episode.

For me, it didn't make sense after the Battle of Winterfell that Cersei was the be-all-end-all of this series. I wasn't really buying it when other people were saying, "Well yeah, it was about Cersei and the Iron Throne all along!" I knew there had to be some bigger point to the show, and clear up until this penultimate episode, the show did a good job of keeping us guessing what that was, exactly.

I think it's clever and makes more sense now, because GoT is basically the story of both the hero and the villain of Westeros, and makes it harder to hate the villain because you saw everything she went through. And the hero and villain fell in love and teamed up to take on other evils before their differences were clear!

I always said in the earlier seasons... Daenerys' story became the weakest part of the show at times, it seemed less interesting than whatever was going on at The Wall, or King's Landing, or Winterfell, or at the Faceless monastery. For like two or three seasons straight her story became hit-and-miss, with her more fixated on ruling Mareen than coming West. In the books, and I guess now just as sensibly in the show, Dany's story was most interesting because of the complicated discussions about ruling and being a good leader. It all played into her story and foreshadowed who she became as a character. It became painfully clear that the one thing keeping Dany in check was her many advisors and friends, who have completely been whittled away now - and also the love of the people she ruled, who have largely grown to love Jon Snow more as a leader.

I never thought I would actually be sad to see Cersei die, and this episode humanized her and her folly. She was a tyrant, and a horrible person. And maybe she got the ending she deserved all along. But it was tough to see her going out with her twin by her side, all the while being comforted by him in their dying.

Cleganebowl was spectacular, and also very melancholy because it's clear that the outcome doesn't matter anymore since King's Landing is falling and both brothers will likely die, but seeing them have it out on, as the showrunners put it, "A stairway that leads nowhere", was fantastic.

Jon Snow's character moment really set the tone for this episode, and came full-circle. He has a moral compass and has seen many instances in the series where other men did horrible things, but never thought he would reach this situation with his own men under Danaerys.

I do agree that Dany's renewed power with a single dragon was a bit ridiculous when last episode she lost Rhaegon right off the bat to a ballistae. But I chalk it up to renewed craziness after the death of Missandei. Euron's moments, too, were once again lousy, but he got the fate he deserved.

In all there were about 8 character deaths this episode, and all of them felt earned. (Yes, even if Jamie's character development was a bit disappointing.) And it's clear why this or that character stayed around for so long. In the next episode it really will be Westeros against the Dragon Queen.

The thing that's become really annoying in this show is the lack of logic in any of the battle scenes. It's become purely about shock entertainment value for the audience.

Drogon successfully dodging like 40 scorpions is just highly implausible, given their 100% accuracy in the previous episode. The point where he burns down the main gate to let the army through, he flies straight in front of 2 scorpions that are pointed right at him, and they just choose not to fire at that moment.

There would've been so many ways of reaching that same ending without so much inconsistency. They just don't seem to care that much about it. As with the winterfell battle.

I agree with this. Its been an issue for me since last season - where the Ice magically re-freezes overnight to be thicker than it was before when it had been frozen for god knows how long beforehand.

it seems like the showrunners brainstorm things like "oh this would be a cool shot" and then force the story events to allow those shots to happen even if they don't make any sense - like charging the Dothraki in in the Battle of Winterfell just so they could have that shot of their flaming swords getting snuffed out. Or the shot with Arya and the horse in the last episode.

In some ways, I think this should would have been off sticking to a more limited budget. that forced them to be cleverer in earlier seasons, like that battle from the perspective of Tyrion where we just see the initial charge and Tyrion getting knocked out, then waking up after everything had played out.

the show succeeded based on the acting and depth of characters, not on spectacle, and the last couple seasons have relied way more heavily on spectacle than interesting character development.

the last couple seasons, I've enjoyed the dialogue heavy episodes way more than the action heavy ones

I have a few friends who really like the show, and whenever we talk about the latest episodes they always enjoyed them so much that I feel bad raining on their parade, so end up keeping the criticisms to myself.

This has been a really disappointing season though, several characters arcs (e.g. Dany, Jaime, Tyrion and Jon) have been destroyed and the two biggest battles which were built up over the course of the show turned out to be extremely underwhelming. :/

Finally got to watch episode 5, life's been complicated for the past days.

I will say this about Cersei's death. I was disappointed when it first happened, but then, I asked myself, what's a satisfying way for her to die? To get stabbed with a sword? Get her throat cut? Beheaded? Poisoned? Strangled to death by Jaime? To me those are kinda extreme for a girl. For a warrior like Ramsay, yeah sure. For Cersei? Not sure I would have found those satisfying either.

Why does it take a miracle for many storytellers to finish a story on a satisfying note compared to starting off strong? In terms of ongoing series, not one-off books; although the latter, you can argue it can still be difficult to write an ending.

@Ovirew: Sums up my thoughts too, except for Jaime's arc. I thought his actions were very human. People very rarely stick to one path and never go back. He spent his entire life loving Cersei, he can't just flip a switch and change forever. The same can be said for people who relapse on addictions or exes. Even during his trial we saw that he didn't regret all his actions, he isn't the perfect hero that Brienne and fans want him to be.

Him going back to Cersei made sense because that's his lifelong love harboring his child. He sees Cersei very differently than others do, everybody has this bias to somebody in their lives. Humans are not objective beings. He knew she was going to lose so he wanted to save her.

I thought both their ends were touching and tragic, despite Cersei's terrible deeds. Game of thrones was never about pure evil or good, just moral grey areas. This showed Cersei's "good" side.

For Cersei? How about all of the above? Hopefully that happens to Dany too.

I am not sure lol, I guess they handicapped themselves by limiting the final season to only 6 episodes. With so many branching stories to conclude and epic scenes to convey, it seems almost impossible to wrap that all up in any meaningful way with such little screen time. The crazy thing is I heard that HBO were happy to sanction more episodes, could have easily been like a 10 x 1 and a half hour episode season and it would maybe not have felt so rushed then.

Not sure if it was due to budget constraints or Game of Thrones fatigue for the writers, however they haven't quite managed to do the show justice with their ending imo. If you look at the show as a whole in fact, the first 4 seasons are far stronger in terms of writing than the last 4, though of course that's when they had all of the source material to draw upon.

Anyway, as to your point about Cersei I agree that the manner of her death wasn't necessarily unsatisfying in itself. I'm not bloodthirsty or anything haha, I suppose I just imagined her putting up a bit more of a fight considering she was meant to be the true villain and threat after they Arya ninja'd the Night King. It all just felt a bit sudden and anti-climactic.

Oh, and hopefully your life's a bit less complicated now! ?

https://youtu.be/CpTZ-tC81yA

So tomorrow's the series finale already. :I

It's not a lot of time to wrap up all of these different plots, but I am thinking there has to be a little more to the story, a few secrets and twists.

I mean, why go to the trouble of showing a whole scene where Dany uses her dragon against the Night King and he is unfazed by its fire if that wasn't going to have some importance by the end? You know?

Expecting a packed episode tomorrow, so much to cover. Will be seeing it in theatres with friends so should be fun :).

Not sure how they will finish it all in 70-80 mins though. Definitely wish they had more episodes.

Just finished the episode. That was bad. This season has been bad.

Dragon dies easily by the giant arrows and now the dragon comes at a whole fleet that seems plenty prepared but simply gets whipped out because the story need it to.

Basically the dragons got de-powered and now supercharged.

The heel turn just happened too fast (everything has been rushed).

Ayra just keeps surviving, but I guess talking about plot armor at this point is useless.

Plus all this comic book like good guy vs. bad guys are ridiculous.

Euron has Jamie beaten but of course talks too much and dies.

And the white horse? Too much.

Things I liked: Everything Varys, Jamie/Tyrion's last embrace.

On the topic of the dragons and the scorpions: Honestly, I think that it always should have been this easy for the dragons to take out the scorpions. Dragons are highly maneuverable and it's not as if you can aim those giant scorpions as easily as you can aim a gun. Daenerys SHOULD have been able to take them out. The problem is the PREVIOUS episode, when Rhaegal was taken out like a chump with no logic behind it.

If Rhaegal really needed to die, what would have made more sense is if Drogon and Rhaegal were both in episode 5. Daenerys is already on the verge of burning everyone, but then the soldiers at King's Landing surrender and the bells are rung. If Rhaegal happens to be taken out by a lucky shot then, AFTER both dragons had proven to be good at evading scorpions, that would make more sense. That would establish that taking out the dragons with the scorpions does require a lucky shot, that it's not easy to get a hit. Furthermore, if that happened immediately before the massacre, that would make more sense too. Daenerys seeing her "child" die in that critical moment could be the thing that pushes her just slightly over the edge.

I know that Daenerys has been building up to such a massacre for the entire series, but the way it played out here just felt too abrupt.

Also, I hate Euron Greyjoy and every scene he is in. Even seeing him die isn't enjoyable. He's not like Joffrey or Ramsey, who I enjoyed seeing die. They were good. I LOVED to hate them. Whereas with Euron, I just plain hate him. I don't want to see him die, I just plain don't want to see him at all. What the hell was even the point of that scene? Getting a mortal strike against Jaime was completely pointless since it didn't stop Jaime from finding Cersei (and then Jaime quickly died anyway, from stuff that had nothing to do with his fight with Euron). And if they needed to kill Euron off, they could have easily done that during the scene when Euron's ship got torched. I actually mostly liked this episode, but I hated the Euron/Jaime scene.

@Master_Live: Yuup. I agree on tyrion and Jaime, that was well done