Don't Believe Any Poll Involving Trump

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Jaysonguy

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#1 Jaysonguy
Member since 2006 • 39454 Posts

I'm in a great mood so here's another tidbit (first one was how to win at life)

The media is going to go crazy showing how low Trump's numbers are for everything, it's all wrong.

Remember leading into the election the polls said he was going to lose? Remember exit polls had Clinton destroying him?

Trump supporters know how to win, those that oppose him know how to lose.

Trump supporters don't want someone crying on them so they avoid the president questions "how is he doing, does he have your support, how do you feel, etc"

Polls don't mean anything, what does telling some unwashed heap (who has been at a polling place for a week nonstop heckling all Republicans) your opinion do? Nothing.

Votes that shift cities and states matter.

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

Votes matter

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JustPlainLucas

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#2 JustPlainLucas
Member since 2002 • 80418 Posts

@Jaysonguy said:

I'm in a great mood so here's another tidbit (first one was how to win at life)

The media is going to go crazy showing how low Trump's numbers are for everything, it's all wrong.

Remember leading into the election the polls said he was going to lose? Remember exit polls had Clinton destroying him?

Trump supporters know how to win, those that oppose him know how to lose.

Trump supporters don't want someone crying on them so they avoid the president questions "how is he doing, does he have your support, how do you feel, etc"

Polls don't mean anything, what does telling some unwashed heap (who has been at a polling place for a week nonstop heckling all Republicans) your opinion do? Nothing.

Votes that shift cities and states matter.

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

Votes matter

Not if it's the popular vote...

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Solaryellow

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#3 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6431 Posts

According to how the E.C. is set up, votes do count.

Based on how badly the media swung and missed when it came to who would win and how she'd win, I don't place much faith in polls even if they were favorable to Trump.

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deactivated-5985f1128b98f

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#4 deactivated-5985f1128b98f
Member since 2007 • 1914 Posts

@JustPlainLucas said:
@Jaysonguy said:

I'm in a great mood so here's another tidbit (first one was how to win at life)

The media is going to go crazy showing how low Trump's numbers are for everything, it's all wrong.

Remember leading into the election the polls said he was going to lose? Remember exit polls had Clinton destroying him?

Trump supporters know how to win, those that oppose him know how to lose.

Trump supporters don't want someone crying on them so they avoid the president questions "how is he doing, does he have your support, how do you feel, etc"

Polls don't mean anything, what does telling some unwashed heap (who has been at a polling place for a week nonstop heckling all Republicans) your opinion do? Nothing.

Votes that shift cities and states matter.

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

Votes matter

Not if it's the popular vote...

I'm so sick of all this "she won the popular vote" crap.

There is no national popular vote to be won or lost in the US Presidential election. There are 50 popular votes. You have to win the right combinations of those 50 to win the seat.

Both sides knew the rules going in. Hillary lost. Get over it.

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Serraph105

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#5  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35462 Posts

@Jaysonguy said:

I'm in a great mood so here's another tidbit (first one was how to win at life)

The media is going to go crazy showing how low Trump's numbers are for everything, it's all wrong.

Remember leading into the election the polls said he was going to lose? Remember exit polls had Clinton destroying him?

Trump supporters know how to win, those that oppose him know how to lose.

Trump supporters don't want someone crying on them so they avoid the president questions "how is he doing, does he have your support, how do you feel, etc"

Polls don't mean anything, what does telling some unwashed heap (who has been at a polling place for a week nonstop heckling all Republicans) your opinion do? Nothing.

Votes that shift cities and states matter.

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

Votes matter

3 million more votes for Hillary didn't matter

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Serraph105

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#6 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35462 Posts

@collegeboy64: Sorry to tell you this, but Hillary won the popular vote. That's the truth which is not crap.

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super600

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#7 super600  Moderator  Online
Member since 2007 • 32748 Posts

His favourabilty rating is garbage right now. The only reason he won the election was he facing someone that's favourability rating was just as awful as his.

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Jaysonguy

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#8 Jaysonguy
Member since 2006 • 39454 Posts

@Serraph105 said:
@Jaysonguy said:

I'm in a great mood so here's another tidbit (first one was how to win at life)

The media is going to go crazy showing how low Trump's numbers are for everything, it's all wrong.

Remember leading into the election the polls said he was going to lose? Remember exit polls had Clinton destroying him?

Trump supporters know how to win, those that oppose him know how to lose.

Trump supporters don't want someone crying on them so they avoid the president questions "how is he doing, does he have your support, how do you feel, etc"

Polls don't mean anything, what does telling some unwashed heap (who has been at a polling place for a week nonstop heckling all Republicans) your opinion do? Nothing.

Votes that shift cities and states matter.

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

Votes matter

3 million more votes for Hillary didn't matter

You would want to do yourself a favor and visit the local library and read about how the president is elected.

It's not a popular vote, if it were it would be unfair because you would have people from one state speaking for those in another.

We have an electoral college. That gives each state a voice. A candidate cannot simply woo the most populated states and win, they must collect the votes from across the nation. People from all places and all walks of life.

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deactivated-5985f1128b98f

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#9  Edited By deactivated-5985f1128b98f
Member since 2007 • 1914 Posts

@Serraph105: You refuse to accept the fact that there is no national popular vote to be won or lost. It's like wanting to be declared the winner of a baseball game because you made the most hits, but didn't score as many runs.

Like I said. Both sides knew the rules going in. Hillary failed to win by the rules.

Pointing to 4 million more votes in one state, California, is meaningless, or to use my term, crap.

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mrbojangles25

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#10  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 52123 Posts

Going to be fun watching the Trump supports face their truth for the next few years. Not only did they shit the bed, but they'll have to sleep in it, too.

"Winning" lol

@Jaysonguy: concerning the EC, your points were valid, but it has been a contested issue for decades. The only reason we had the EC in the first place was to give the south a voice after the Civil War. It was, arguably, a temporary concession to the losers from the victors. Relying on the EC to "win" could, in fact, be deemed a strategy for losers.

In the modern era (the era we live in, but are currently regressing from due to the man we have elected) one person can equal one vote and that is fair. When it comes to electing a national president, there is no "tyranny of the majority" to be protected from, there is no need to represent states as a ratio; we are all Americans, and not Californians versus Minnesotans.

The EC essentially states that certain people have more of a right in determining the course of the nation than others, and that is very wrong in a democratic republic.

@collegeboy64 said:

@Serraph105: You refuse to accept the fact that there is no national popular vote to be won or lost. It's like wanting to be declared the winner of a baseball game because you made the most hits, but didn't score as many runs.

Like I said. Both sides knew the rules going in. Hillary failed to win by the rules.

Pointing to 4 million more votes in one state, California, is meaningless, or to use my term, crap.

Terrible analogy. No, it's not like saying she won because she made the most hits.

It's like saying Trump won because he made 3 runs in the sixth inning, which actually counts as 5 runs, even though he technically only made 6 runs overall while Clinton made 7 runs overall. Because apparently certain innings, for some stupid reason decided upon decades upon decades ago, are worth more than other innings.

So while Clinton should have won because she scored 7 times, since Trump got "bonus runs" in the sixth inning, he actually got 8 runs.

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Gaming-Planet

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#11 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 20902 Posts

They over sampled democrats again.

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Serraph105

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#12 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35462 Posts

@collegeboy64 said:

@Serraph105: You refuse to accept the fact that there is no national popular vote to be won or lost. It's like wanting to be declared the winner of a baseball game because you made the most hits, but didn't score as many runs.

Like I said. Both sides knew the rules going in. Hillary failed to win by the rules.

Pointing to 4 million more votes in one state, California, is meaningless, or to use my term, crap.

No I accept that it has no power regarding the electoral college vote, but calling it crap that Hillary won the popular vote is to deny that she won the popular vote.

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judaspete

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#13 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 5328 Posts

@Jaysonguy said:

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

I think Pepe the Frog might take issue with that statement.

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Megavideogamer

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#14 Megavideogamer
Member since 2004 • 6554 Posts

I will give President Trump a chance. He may do some times positive. I give him the chance to be a good president.

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nepu7supastar7

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#15 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6240 Posts

@Jaysonguy:

Basically all who oppose Lord Trump is wrong.

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ad1x2

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#16 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts

It is hard to take polls seriously when almost all media polls had Clinton beating Trump in a landslide. We could blame oversampling of Democrats, but we can also blame closet Trump supporters that were afraid of being called racist or stupid if they admitted they were voting for him.

Even to this day, many Trump supporters are afraid to admit that they support him. Celebrities that dared suggest we should at least try to work with the president are being called sellouts, Uncle Toms (in the case of black celebrities like Steve Harvey), and other insults I won't repeat here.

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super600

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#17  Edited By super600  Moderator  Online
Member since 2007 • 32748 Posts

@ad1x2 said:

It is hard to take polls seriously when almost all media polls had Clinton beating Trump in a landslide. We could blame oversampling of Democrats, but we can also blame closet Trump supporters that were afraid of being called racist or stupid if they admitted they were voting for him.

Even to this day, many Trump supporters are afraid to admit that they support him. Celebrities that dared suggest we should at least try to work with the president are being called sellouts, Uncle Toms (in the case of black celebrities like Steve Harvey), and other insults I won't repeat here.

The problem is that even if the polls that show trump's favourabilty rating is low are wrong they aren't really that far off whatever his true favourability rating may be.He's polling nowhere near what past POTUS were at this point in their presidency. There are not enough shy trump supporters to make it possible for him to have a decent favourability rating.

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#18  Edited By PraetorianMan
Member since 2011 • 2073 Posts

The people here who are dismissive of favorability polls because of the Clinton win-% polls apparently don't understand how probability and statistics work... or they just don't understand numbers in general.

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deactivated-5985f1128b98f

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#19  Edited By deactivated-5985f1128b98f
Member since 2007 • 1914 Posts

@Serraph105 said:
@collegeboy64 said:

@Serraph105: You refuse to accept the fact that there is no national popular vote to be won or lost. It's like wanting to be declared the winner of a baseball game because you made the most hits, but didn't score as many runs.

Like I said. Both sides knew the rules going in. Hillary failed to win by the rules.

Pointing to 4 million more votes in one state, California, is meaningless, or to use my term, crap.

No I accept that it has no power regarding the electoral college vote, but calling it crap that Hillary won the popular vote is to deny that she won the popular vote.

You keep saying "she won the popular vote". There is no nationwide popular vote to be won or lost. It is a meaningless statement. People's votes only count in the context of their state contest. Gathering up the vote counts from all 50 states and pointing to the result proves nothing.

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#20 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6240 Posts

@PraetorianMan:

It's nothing about that. They refuse to believe that many people don't like Trump from the get go. Look at how bad people reacted when he did win the election ! You don't need polls to know how much he's hated.

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#21 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts

@super600 said:
@ad1x2 said:

It is hard to take polls seriously when almost all media polls had Clinton beating Trump in a landslide. We could blame oversampling of Democrats, but we can also blame closet Trump supporters that were afraid of being called racist or stupid if they admitted they were voting for him.

Even to this day, many Trump supporters are afraid to admit that they support him. Celebrities that dared suggest we should at least try to work with the president are being called sellouts, Uncle Toms (in the case of black celebrities like Steve Harvey), and other insults I won't repeat here.

The problem is that even if the polls that show trump's favourabilty rating is low are wrong they aren't really that far off whatever his true favourability rating may be.He's polling nowhere near what past POTUS were at this point in their presidency. There are not enough shy trump supporters to make it possible for him to have a decent favourability rating.

I won't argue that he isn't as popular as previous presidents, especially when you consider that Obama got almost 70 million votes versus the 62 million President Trump got.

But we will never get an accurate representation of his true support when people are still demonizing Trump supporters regardless of how low or high it is.

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#22  Edited By HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 13359 Posts

Sure, some state polls were off, but that doesn't mean that polling in general is hocus pocus. That line of logic is completely moronic. This is even ignoring that national polls were still right as she won by 3 million votes.

What they need to do is find sampling errors that may have lead to over estimates in states that went the other way. You see that's what smart people do, they calibrate tools that are generally good at producing results in the event of errors. They don't throw everything away if a process doesn't predict every outcome 100% of the time.

Polling is a multi billion dollar industry that any corporation spends money on and for good reason, it works to gauge opinions, feelings, trends, of people.

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#23  Edited By KOD
Member since 2016 • 2754 Posts

@Jaysonguy said:

The media is going to go crazy showing how low Trump's numbers are for everything, it's all wrong.

Remember leading into the election the polls said he was going to lose? Remember exit polls had Clinton destroying him?

You are conflating two very different things and not being very honest.

For one the reason people said Trump was going to lose was because of previous voting records and trends, it was assumed that roughly the same people would support a democrat as they did with Obama. Of course, they assumed wrong but they only assumed wrong because of how disliked Hillary is.

Polling numbers on favorability is pretty black and white for the most part. There are no external contingencies being added.

@Jaysonguy said:

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

If you have a problem with marching and protecting, then move to another country. I hate to go that route, but its literally the foundation of our nation and to suggest it does not matter or make a difference is to be 100% ignorant of our history.

@Jaysonguy said:

You would want to do yourself a favor and visit the local library and read about how the president is elected.

While i dont harp on the issue too much, i do suspect that Trump'ers (who were just waiting for him to lose to freak out and blame everything) would be flipping shit if he won the popular vote but lost the EC.

@Jaysonguy said:

It's not a popular vote, if it were it would be unfair because you would have people from one state speaking for those in another.

Huh... are you unaware that we have the same results with the electoral college? Are you unaware that this is the outcome of ANY election?

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pyro1245

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#24  Edited By pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 8391 Posts

believe nothing, trust no one -_-

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#25 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 37546 Posts

@JustPlainLucas said:
@Jaysonguy said:

I'm in a great mood so here's another tidbit (first one was how to win at life)

The media is going to go crazy showing how low Trump's numbers are for everything, it's all wrong.

Remember leading into the election the polls said he was going to lose? Remember exit polls had Clinton destroying him?

Trump supporters know how to win, those that oppose him know how to lose.

Trump supporters don't want someone crying on them so they avoid the president questions "how is he doing, does he have your support, how do you feel, etc"

Polls don't mean anything, what does telling some unwashed heap (who has been at a polling place for a week nonstop heckling all Republicans) your opinion do? Nothing.

Votes that shift cities and states matter.

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

Votes matter

Not if it's the popular vote...

lol burn

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Maroxad

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#26 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18462 Posts

@PraetorianMan said:

The people here who are dismissive of favorability polls because of the Clinton win-% polls apparently don't understand how probability and statistics work... or they just don't understand numbers in general.

That is something I have noticed.

A surprising ammount of people dont understand mathematical statistics, margins of error and all that jazz. Any % lower than 100 means that there will be outcomes where Trump wins.

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#27 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 21278 Posts

@Maroxad: It's part of that whole "everything is a conspiracy by the elites" mentality.

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#28 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 174815 Posts

Hahaha......his favor-ability rating is in the toilet That's a fact. Deal with it.........

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#29 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18462 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@Maroxad: It's part of that whole "everything is a conspiracy by the elites" mentality.

Some creationist schools have actually done that. Essentially calling some fields of mathematics a hoax.

One field of mathematics that comes to mind is Set Theory which they shun so much. Not only do they shun these fields, but they also outright teach numerology instead.

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#30 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 39218 Posts

"Marching doesn't matter"?

By that logic, is there no point to the people of other places in the world, such as Hong Kong whenever China does something bad?

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#31 TotalRobot
Member since 2017 • 187 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

Going to be fun watching the Trump supports face their truth for the next few years. Not only did they shit the bed, but they'll have to sleep in it, too.

"Winning" lol

@Jaysonguy: concerning the EC, your points were valid, but it has been a contested issue for decades. The only reason we had the EC in the first place was to give the south a voice after the Civil War. It was, arguably, a temporary concession to the losers from the victors. Relying on the EC to "win" could, in fact, be deemed a strategy for losers.

In the modern era (the era we live in, but are currently regressing from due to the man we have elected) one person can equal one vote and that is fair. When it comes to electing a national president, there is no "tyranny of the majority" to be protected from, there is no need to represent states as a ratio; we are all Americans, and not Californians versus Minnesotans.

The EC essentially states that certain people have more of a right in determining the course of the nation than others, and that is very wrong in a democratic republic.

The Electoral College predates the Civil War by around 80 years. It has nothing to do with who won or lost that conflict.

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#32 HeadtripHippie
Member since 2013 • 109 Posts

@mrbojangles25:

Are you sure the E.C. was established after the Civil War as a concession to the southern states?

Also, while we are all Americans, we are also Texans, Californians, New Yorkers ect. Especially when we chose the head of the federal government. Everyone's vote counts for their state. If we went with the popular vote, we would be essentially removing the states ability to choose their only representative in federal government, changing us from a united republic of states to a single federal state.

I think a better analogy would be the world series. You could have more runs in a single game then the other team has in the whole series but if you don't win the most games you don't win the presidency.

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#33 TotalRobot
Member since 2017 • 187 Posts

@headtriphippie said:

@mrbojangles25:

Are you sure the E.C. was established after the Civil War as a concession to the southern states?

The EC was established as part of the Constitution in 1788 and was based on a plan from Virginia. The Twelfth Amendment, which modifies how it operates, was ratified in 1804. The Civil War started in 1861.

The concession the South got after the Civil War was Separate But Equal. And everyone knows how that turned out.

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#34 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 174815 Posts
@headtriphippie said:

@mrbojangles25:

Are you sure the E.C. was established after the Civil War as a concession to the southern states?

Also, while we are all Americans, we are also Texans, Californians, New Yorkers ect. Especially when we chose the head of the federal government. Everyone's vote counts for their state. If we went with the popular vote, we would be essentially removing the states ability to choose their only representative in federal government, changing us from a united republic of states to a single federal state.

I think a better analogy would be the world series. You could have more runs in a single game then the other team has in the whole series but if you don't win the most games you don't win the presidency.

And the EC prevents more parties.

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#35 HeadtripHippie
Member since 2013 • 109 Posts

@LJS9502_basic:

How so? There are at least 4 now, do you mean more than that?

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#36 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@Gaming-Planet said:

They over sampled democrats again.

Yup. The tears are glorius in the liberal meltdowns on this thread though.

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#37  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18462 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@headtriphippie said:

@mrbojangles25:

Are you sure the E.C. was established after the Civil War as a concession to the southern states?

Also, while we are all Americans, we are also Texans, Californians, New Yorkers ect. Especially when we chose the head of the federal government. Everyone's vote counts for their state. If we went with the popular vote, we would be essentially removing the states ability to choose their only representative in federal government, changing us from a united republic of states to a single federal state.

I think a better analogy would be the world series. You could have more runs in a single game then the other team has in the whole series but if you don't win the most games you don't win the presidency.

And the EC prevents more parties.

I would argue that that would be the First Past the Post system/Winner takes all that would be the culprit of that.

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#38 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18462 Posts

@headtriphippie said:

@LJS9502_basic:

How so? There are at least 4 now, do you mean more than that?

2 of which are considered to be a wasted vote.

Here in Sweden we have 8 parties with congressional powers and 2 independents. And most other countries that avoid having systems that encourage strategic voting are in a similar position.

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#39 HeadtripHippie
Member since 2013 • 109 Posts

@Maroxad:

The parties exist and hold seats in government. Their main problem is their platforms are too narrow and to far to one side or the other to convince independents and centrists to show up. Then you have the candidates they put up, coupled with the difficulty they have getting media attention and here we are.

I agree that an argument can be made for taking a look at the winner take all style of selecting electors, but that is a state issue and not really a failing of the electoral college.

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#40 IMAHAPYHIPPO
Member since 2004 • 4078 Posts

@Jaysonguy said:
@Serraph105 said:
@Jaysonguy said:

I'm in a great mood so here's another tidbit (first one was how to win at life)

The media is going to go crazy showing how low Trump's numbers are for everything, it's all wrong.

Remember leading into the election the polls said he was going to lose? Remember exit polls had Clinton destroying him?

Trump supporters know how to win, those that oppose him know how to lose.

Trump supporters don't want someone crying on them so they avoid the president questions "how is he doing, does he have your support, how do you feel, etc"

Polls don't mean anything, what does telling some unwashed heap (who has been at a polling place for a week nonstop heckling all Republicans) your opinion do? Nothing.

Votes that shift cities and states matter.

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

Votes matter

3 million more votes for Hillary didn't matter

You would want to do yourself a favor and visit the local library and read about how the president is elected.

It's not a popular vote, if it were it would be unfair because you would have people from one state speaking for those in another.

We have an electoral college. That gives each state a voice. A candidate cannot simply woo the most populated states and win, they must collect the votes from across the nation. People from all places and all walks of life.

Exactly. You can't have the people from California (which I'm from, btw), deciding every election (which they would if it went by popular votes). The President can't just cater to one state out of 50, they need to cater to all of them. Or in this case, himself, I guess.

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#41 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 13359 Posts

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:
@Jaysonguy said:
@Serraph105 said:

3 million more votes for Hillary didn't matter

You would want to do yourself a favor and visit the local library and read about how the president is elected.

It's not a popular vote, if it were it would be unfair because you would have people from one state speaking for those in another.

We have an electoral college. That gives each state a voice. A candidate cannot simply woo the most populated states and win, they must collect the votes from across the nation. People from all places and all walks of life.

Exactly. You can't have the people from California (which I'm from, btw), deciding every election (which they would if it went by popular votes). The President can't just cater to one state out of 50, they need to cater to all of them. Or in this case, himself, I guess.

lol we already have a system where a a few select states decide the winner.

This argument is growing tired. 'Don't let New York and California decide! Let it be Ohio and Florida!'.

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#42 IMAHAPYHIPPO
Member since 2004 • 4078 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:
@Jaysonguy said:
@Serraph105 said:

3 million more votes for Hillary didn't matter

You would want to do yourself a favor and visit the local library and read about how the president is elected.

It's not a popular vote, if it were it would be unfair because you would have people from one state speaking for those in another.

We have an electoral college. That gives each state a voice. A candidate cannot simply woo the most populated states and win, they must collect the votes from across the nation. People from all places and all walks of life.

Exactly. You can't have the people from California (which I'm from, btw), deciding every election (which they would if it went by popular votes). The President can't just cater to one state out of 50, they need to cater to all of them. Or in this case, himself, I guess.

lol we already have a system where a a few select states decide the winner.

This argument is growing tired. 'Don't let New York and California decide! Let it be Ohio and Florida!'.

A few states finalize the winner, but they don't outright grant them victory. Yes, Ohio and Florida are big influences, but they don't put a candidate over the edge without the support of other states. Hillary's popular vote victory was almost entirely from Cali.

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#43 intotheminx
Member since 2014 • 2608 Posts

You should have a decent understanding of the EC before rioting against it.

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#44  Edited By HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 13359 Posts

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

A few states finalize the winner, but they don't outright grant them victory. Yes, Ohio and Florida are big influences, but they don't put a candidate over the edge without the support of other states. Hillary's popular vote victory was almost entirely from Cali.

It's essentially possible to win the electoral college with only 30 percent of the popular vote (lowest of margins). Look, I'm not essentially saying dismantle the system in place for a straight popular vote, but this 'don't let Cali and New York' decide mantra is old and stupid. It's always a select few states that swing elections.

Hell, even the small states don't get candidates to visit them. You think anyone goes to Wyoming or Oklahoma? If we're going to use this line of reasoning that the small states need it in order to be heard you'd at least assume that they would be busier grounds for canvassing, they aren't though.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#45 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

Trump spent the entire Republican primary citing his high poll numbers but when all of a sudden they go the other way (and continue to go down), only then are they "rigged" lol. He has 0 credibility.

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deactivated-5985f1128b98f

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#46  Edited By deactivated-5985f1128b98f
Member since 2007 • 1914 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:
@Jaysonguy said:
@Serraph105 said:

3 million more votes for Hillary didn't matter

You would want to do yourself a favor and visit the local library and read about how the president is elected.

It's not a popular vote, if it were it would be unfair because you would have people from one state speaking for those in another.

We have an electoral college. That gives each state a voice. A candidate cannot simply woo the most populated states and win, they must collect the votes from across the nation. People from all places and all walks of life.

Exactly. You can't have the people from California (which I'm from, btw), deciding every election (which they would if it went by popular votes). The President can't just cater to one state out of 50, they need to cater to all of them. Or in this case, himself, I guess.

lol we already have a system where a a few select states decide the winner.

This argument is growing tired. 'Don't let New York and California decide! Let it be Ohio and Florida!'.

I believe you are drawing a false equivalency. As Hillary found out, you can't just figure on Ohio and Florida deciding the election. She took for granted "The Blue Wall" in the rust belt, and those states went for Trump. The old conventional wisdom that all the states are decided except Florida and Ohio was shown to not be untrue this time around.

The fact that a particular state is considered reliably D or reliably R does not mean the party/candidate can completely take that state for granted.

Without the EC, then a few of the most populace states would always decide the presidency and all the smaller states would not be taken for granted, they would be ignored.

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#47 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 13359 Posts

@collegeboy64 said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

lol we already have a system where a a few select states decide the winner.

This argument is growing tired. 'Don't let New York and California decide! Let it be Ohio and Florida!'.

I believe you are drawing a false equivalency. As Hillary found out, you can't just figure on Ohio and Florida deciding the election. She took for granted "The Blue Wall" in the rust belt, and those states went for Trump. The old conventional wisdom that all the states are decided except Florida and Ohio was shown to not be untrue this time around.

The fact that a particular state is considered reliably D or reliably R does not mean the party/candidate can completely take that state for granted.

Without the EC, then a few of the most populace states would always decide the presidency and all the smaller states would not be taken for granted, they would be ignored.

I completely agree that she took her firewall for granted.

However these 'small states' are still ignored. No one campaigns in these smaller states that are reliably blue or red. These populous states are still that, populous. You're essentially giving entitlement to smaller populations for the sake of being less populous. That is exactly why we have the Senate in the first place so that every state has equal representation in the upper house of Congress.

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deactivated-5985f1128b98f

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#48 deactivated-5985f1128b98f
Member since 2007 • 1914 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@collegeboy64 said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

lol we already have a system where a a few select states decide the winner.

This argument is growing tired. 'Don't let New York and California decide! Let it be Ohio and Florida!'.

I believe you are drawing a false equivalency. As Hillary found out, you can't just figure on Ohio and Florida deciding the election. She took for granted "The Blue Wall" in the rust belt, and those states went for Trump. The old conventional wisdom that all the states are decided except Florida and Ohio was shown to not be untrue this time around.

The fact that a particular state is considered reliably D or reliably R does not mean the party/candidate can completely take that state for granted.

Without the EC, then a few of the most populace states would always decide the presidency and all the smaller states would not be taken for granted, they would be ignored.

I completely agree that she took her firewall for granted.

However these 'small states' are still ignored. No one campaigns in these smaller states that are reliably blue or red. These populous states are still that, populous. You're essentially giving entitlement to smaller populations for the sake of being less populous. That is exactly why we have the Senate in the first place so that every state has equal representation in the upper house of Congress.

I'm glad to see in your reply to Hippo, that you are not advocating for a straight nationwide popular vote.

Understand that some of us are just as frustrated with this pointless argument that Hillary won the imaginary, irrelevant, "popular vote", as you are with the Don't let NY and Cali decide argument.

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#49 despa1r_fact0r
Member since 2008 • 24611 Posts

@Jaysonguy said:

I'm in a great mood so here's another tidbit (first one was how to win at life)

The media is going to go crazy showing how low Trump's numbers are for everything, it's all wrong.

Remember leading into the election the polls said he was going to lose? Remember exit polls had Clinton destroying him?

Trump supporters know how to win, those that oppose him know how to lose.

Trump supporters don't want someone crying on them so they avoid the president questions "how is he doing, does he have your support, how do you feel, etc"

Polls don't mean anything, what does telling some unwashed heap (who has been at a polling place for a week nonstop heckling all Republicans) your opinion do? Nothing.

Votes that shift cities and states matter.

People who oppose Trump think that marching matters, that making up memes matter, that polls matter.

Votes matter

Weren't you a huge Obama/Democrat fan years back?

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#50 Fairmonkey
Member since 2011 • 2057 Posts

@JustPlainLucas: Ok, first off, nobody said anything about the electoral college when Obama won twice and certainly Liberals wouldn't have said anything if trump won the popular vote but Hillary won the electoral. Second, Hillary knew the rules going in. Trump and Hillary had the same chance to win through the electoral college even though the media favored Hillary. They both had a chance at winning, she lost the same way he could have lost, deal with it. People are honestly being a bunch of sore losers about it. Third, only the popular vote is flawed because A. This is a much lower turnout rate compared to previous elections so the popular vote does not represent what the majority of america thinks. B. Metropolitan cities would control the votes. C. Electoral allows all states to have a voice instead of NYC completely dominating entire lower populated states