Do You Think Good And Bad People Have Different Eternal Destinies?

The Bible also says the not everyone who cries "lord, Lord" will be saved. I think it is an internal state of devotion and trust in God. Obviously that will have an effect on outward actions, though. However outward actions or good deeds can exist without this internal state of devotion to God. So it is is important for the individual wondering about salvation to look inward first. superheromonkey

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"]

God descending from Heaven and telling me, but again this is probably impossible but he is all powerful so...cowboymonkey21

Well, that's up to God and not humans, so that wouldn't fall under the realm of human possibility. But who knows? Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones.

That's not what I said. . . .I was saying your standards of proof are impossible to meet.

[QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"]

God descending from Heaven and telling me, but again this is probably impossible but he is all powerful so...Theokhoth

Well, that's up to God and not humans, so that wouldn't fall under the realm of human possibility. But who knows? Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones.

That's not what I said. . . .I was saying your standards of proof are impossible to meet.

Do I believe in destiny? Not really. zakkro

is that because she has high standards of proof, or because what you're arguing for is unprovable? (psst. it's the latter)Mr_sprinkles

God decides how He reveals Himself to His creation, not us. He has revealed Himself in His Word, in His creation, in Christ, and in the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives.

The Bible also says the not everyone who cries "lord, Lord" will be saved. I think it is an internal state of devotion and trust in God. Obviously that will have an effect on outward actions, though. However outward actions or good deeds can exist without this internal state of devotion to God. So it is is important for the individual wondering about salvation to look inward first. superheromonkey

The Bible reveals that it is only through the covering of our sins with the blood of Christ, through our faith in Him, that we are saved. Salvation is through Christ alone, not works.

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]

is that because she has high standards of proof, or because what you're arguing for is unprovable? (psst. it's the latter)blackregiment

God decides how He reveals Himself to His creation, not us. He has revealed Himself in His Word, in His creation, in Christ, and in the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives.

I voted "I don't believe in an afterlife". As much as I would love to believe that there's a loving, caring deity that hand-made me and loved me for all who I am, I just don't believe that Christianity or any religion in general is true.

-Jiggles-

Our beliefs do not determine truth. What matters is that our beliefs correspond to truth as it is in reality. What evidence do you base your disbelief on?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]

is that because she has high standards of proof, or because what you're arguing for is unprovable? (psst. it's the latter)Crushmaster

God decides how He reveals Himself to His creation, not us. He has revealed Himself in His Word, in His creation, in Christ, and in the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives.

Hi Crush!

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]

is that because she has high standards of proof, or because what you're arguing for is unprovable? (psst. it's the latter)blackregiment

God decides how He reveals Himself to His creation, not us. He has revealed Himself in His Word, in His creation, in Christ, and in the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives.

Hi Crush!

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"]

God descending from Heaven and telling me, but again this is probably impossible but he is all powerful so...cowboymonkey21

Well, that's up to God and not humans, so that wouldn't fall under the realm of human possibility. But who knows? Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the best evidenced events in all of ancient history.

I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Since it is slow, and even though I am not a non-believer, I will answer your questions.

No, I am not a good person. I am a fallen sinner. I have broken all of God's commandments as revealed by Jesus Christ. I am deserving of eternal separation from God and eternal punishment for my sin.

But there is Good News. I have a Savior, Jesus Christ, that died to pay the price of my sin. He paid the price that I deserve to pay and imputed to me His righteousness, something I do not deserve. As a result of His sacrifice and through my faith and trust in Him as my Lord and Savior, I have the promise and assurance of eternal life. My sins are forgiven, washed clean by the blood of Christ.

The Good News is that this gift from God is available to all that put their faith and trust in Christ as their Lord and Savior.

1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

is that because she has high standards of proof, or because what you're arguing for is unprovable? (psst. it's the latter)Mr_sprinkles

Its because it is arrogant to expect God to manifest himself specially on an individual basis. Moreover, it would be useless, as the total revealed presence of God would lead to irresistable conversion, which is not what He wants. Asking God to reveal Himself is not only arrogant, but ignorant. Anyone who says such snubs their nose at all of the existing evidence (changed lives, resurrection, creation, etc.) and asks for an unreasonable form of proof. Why? Because she thinks God won't specially reveal Himself, and as such, as long as she can ignore the sufficient evidence that already exists, she can resist conversion and service of Christ. There is unquestionably sufficient evidence for not only theism, but of the validity of Scripture and the divinity of Christ (especially in a world where people accept evolution based on artistic imaginations envisioned by means of a lone "pig" tooth or otherwise, or where people believe in extraterrestial life simply because there "has" to be life in our massive universe) If one demands more evidence for God (i.e. special revelation) they are simply looking for a way to avoid the plethura of existing evidence.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the best evidenced events in all of ancient history.

blackregiment

Amen to that.

Here are some interesting things on the afterlife:
(John 3:3) - "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
One's name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life when Jesus Christ comes into our heart.
And, once He is there, He will never leave us nor forsake us.:)
God's Word makes it clear, however, sin must be punished. That is why He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the Cross of Calvary for our sins.
If Jesus Christ lives in our heart, we will be saved from the lake of fire! However...
If He does not live in our heart, our home will be a devil's hell, a place of eternal pain and suffering.
(Matthew 13:49-50) - "So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, {50} And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Christ, and Christ alone, is what saves us.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?blackregiment

Since it is slow, and even though I am not a non-believer, I will answer your questions.

No, I am not a good person. I am a fallen sinner.

wether it be karma, the socalled "god" or a random, accidental trainwreck that kills me, I dont think I've been a bad or a good person per se.Deihjan

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]is that because she has high standards of proof, or because what you're arguing for is unprovable? (psst. it's the latter)mrcong

Its because it is arrogant to expect God to manifest himself specially on an individual basis. Moreover, it would be useless, as the total revealed presence of God would lead to irresistable conversion, which is not what He wants. Asking God to reveal Himself is not only arrogant, but ignorant. Anyone who says such snubs their nose at all of the existing evidence (changed lives, resurrection, creation, etc.) and asks for an unreasonable form of proof. Why? Because she thinks God won't specially reveal Himself, and as such, as long as she can ignore the sufficient evidence that already exists, she can resist conversion and service of Christ. There is unquestionably sufficient evidence for not only theism, but of the validity of Scripture and the divinity of Christ (especially in a world where people accept evolution based on artistic imaginations envisioned by means of a lone "pig" tooth or otherwise, or where people believe in extraterrestial life simply because there "has" to be life in our massive universe) If one demands more evidence for God (i.e. special revelation) they are simply looking for a way to avoid the plethura of existing evidence.

Well said!

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?blackregiment

Since it is slow, and even though I am not a non-believer, I will answer your questions.

No, I am not a good person. I am a fallen sinner. I have broken all of God's commandments as revealed by Jesus Christ. I am deserving of eternal separation from God and eternal punishment for my sin.

But there is Good News. I have a Savior, Jesus Christ, that died to pay the price of my sin. He paid the price that I deserve to pay and imputed to me His righteousness, something I do not deserve. As a result of His sacrifice and through my faith and trust in Him as my Lord and Savior, I have the promise and assurance of eternal life. My sins are forgiven, washed clean by the blood of Christ.

The Good News is that this gift from God is available to all that put their faith and trust in Christ as their Lord and Savior.

1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Since it is slow, and even though I am not a non-believer, I will answer your questions.

No, I am not a good person. I am a fallen sinner.

I am deserving of hell but the Good News is that through my repentance of sin, and faith and trust in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, I have assurance of eternal life in Heaven. Christ paid the price for my sins, a price I deserve to pay, and imputed to me His righteousness, something I do not deserve. My sins are washed away by the blood of Christ.I will be counted righteous in God's eyes at judgement. Praise God.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

I voted "I don't believe in an afterlife". As much as I would love to believe that there's a loving, caring deity that hand-made me and loved me for all who I am, I just don't believe that Christianity or any religion in general is true.

blackregiment

Our beliefs do not determine truth. What matters is that our beliefs correspond to truth as it is in reality. What evidence do you base your disbelief on?

The whole foundation of science is what I place my "disbelief" in. Biology, physics, chemistry, astronomy and many other branches of science is what I use to educate myself about the world around me.

Here are some interesting things on the afterlife:
(John 3:3) - "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
One's name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life when Jesus Christ comes into our heart.
And, once He is there, He will never leave us nor forsake us.:)
God's Word makes it clear, however, sin must be punished. That is why He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the Cross of Calvary for our sins.
If Jesus Christ lives in our heart, we will be saved from the lake of fire! However...
If He does not live in our heart, our home will be a devil's hell, a place of eternal pain and suffering.
(Matthew 13:49-50) - "So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, {50} And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Christ, and Christ alone, is what saves us.

Crushmaster

Well said.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?blackregiment

Since it is slow, and even though I am not a non-believer, I will answer your questions.

No, I am not a good person. I am a fallen sinner.

I am deserving of hell but the Good News is that through my repentance of sin, and faith and trust in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, I have assurance of eternal life in Heaven. Christ paid the price for my sins, a price I deserve to pay, and imputed to me His righteousness, something I do not deserve. My sins are washed away by the blood of Christ.I will be counted righteous in God's eyes at judgement. Praise God.

is that because she has high standards of proof, or because what you're arguing for is unprovable? Mr_sprinkles

Both, because if her standards are too high, then by rule what I believe is impossible to prove.;)

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

I voted "I don't believe in an afterlife". As much as I would love to believe that there's a loving, caring deity that hand-made me and loved me for all who I am, I just don't believe that Christianity or any religion in general is true.

-Jiggles-

Our beliefs do not determine truth. What matters is that our beliefs correspond to truth as it is in reality. What evidence do you base your disbelief on?

The whole foundation of science is what I place my "disbelief" in. Biology, physics, chemistry, astronomy and many other branches of science is what I use to educate myself about the world around me.

Science confirms God's truth. There is only one truth, God's truth and science is conforming to that truth. Take the origin of the universe. Science for centuries thought that the universe was eternal and now agrees with the Bible that it had a beginning.

"For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." Robert Jastrow God and the Astronomers

"The big bang theory requires a recent origin of the Universe that openly invites the concept of creation." Fred Hoyle
The Intelligent Universe New York: Holt, Rinehard, and Winston, 1983), p. 13

"If we accept the big bang theory, and most cosmologists now do, then a 'creation' of some sort is forced upon us." Barry Parker Creation—the Story of the Origin and Evolution of the Universe New York & London: Plenum Press, 1988, p. 202

Well, I have to go watch the debate. God bless.blackregiment

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

I voted "I don't believe in an afterlife". As much as I would love to believe that there's a loving, caring deity that hand-made me and loved me for all who I am, I just don't believe that Christianity or any religion in general is true.

blackregiment

Our beliefs do not determine truth. What matters is that our beliefs correspond to truth as it is in reality. What evidence do you base your disbelief on?

The whole foundation of science is what I place my "disbelief" in. Biology, physics, chemistry, astronomy and many other branches of science is what I use to educate myself about the world around me.

Science confirms God's truth. There is only one truth, God's truth and science is conforming to that truth. Take the origin of the universe. Science for centuries thought that the universe was eternal and now agrees with the Bible that it had a beginning.

"For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." Robert Jastrow God and the Astronomers

"The big bang theory requires a recent origin of the Universe that openly invites the concept of creation." Fred Hoyle
The Intelligent Universe New York: Holt, Rinehard, and Winston, 1983), p. 13

"If we accept the big bang theory, and most cosmologists now do, then a 'creation' of some sort is forced upon us." Barry Parker Creation—the Story of the Origin and Evolution of the Universe New York & London: Plenum Press, 1988, p. 202

Science does not support God because the entire nature of an omnipotent deity makes him impossible to prove. Science only revolves around what can be observed, studied and experimented with in the physical world, which is impossible to do with the Christian god; thus, science does not support Christianity or any other religion as well.

Oh, and quote mining isn't going to sway my opinion, especially considering that the quotes are not from an unbiased source.

I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Why yes, yes I do.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?domatron23

Why yes, yes I do.

Honeslty have no idea because I've never died. :P

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Why yes, yes I do.

Every person is good and bad, everyone lies, nobody is perfect.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Why yes, yes I do.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Why yes, yes I do.

Yep. And yes to the other q's. And I guess that makes me what ever it is that I do (liar , stealer , etc.) , and I guess I will go to hell if your beliefs are correct.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Why yes, yes I do.

Yes I have lied, stolen, adultered, blasphemed and hated.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?diped

Why yes, yes I do.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?domatron23

Why yes, yes I do.

Yes I have lied, stolen, adultered, blasphemed and hated.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?dave123321

Why yes, yes I do.

Yep. And yes to the other q's. And I guess that makes me what ever it is that I do (liar , stealer , etc.) , and I guess I will go to hell if your beliefs are correct.

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Why yes, yes I do.

Yes I have lied, stolen, adultered, blasphemed and hated.

A liar, a theif, an adulterer, a blasphemer and a murderer.

[QUOTE="dave123321"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Why yes, yes I do.

Yep. And yes to the other q's. And I guess that makes me what ever it is that I do (liar , stealer , etc.) , and I guess I will go to hell if your beliefs are correct.

So basically if you never had the opportunity to be 'saved by Jesus' and God then youll go to hell?

Does that mean that Ghandi went to hell?

You are correct, Dave.
Unless Jesus Christ lives in one's heart, when they die, they will spend eternity in the lake of fire.Crushmaster

Lake of fire actually sounds pretty cool.

But I do not believe that that will happen to be honest.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
I have a question for any non-believers who wish to answer: Do you consider yourself to be a good person?domatron23

Why yes, yes I do.

Yes I have lied, stolen, adultered, blasphemed and hated.

A liar, a theif, an adulterer, a blasphemer and a murderer.