Do you favor a particular Bible verse? Tell us.

 

I see this is just like the gamespot video on system wars...you are not defending your religion, you are defending your character.  You have intertwined your religion with your personality, and as such you think me criticising your theism is criticising your character.  And you still didn't answer my question...I'm guessing you don't know why you follow it.

 Nope.  I wasn't referring to myself at all.

Also, In this thread, i don't have a 'belief.'  Being an atheist is not a belief system.  I was hoping you'd understand that

Being atheist you believe there is no God.  You cannot prove you are correct.  Therefore, it's belief.

As for the barbaric book...well, then...

 

I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law (Luke 12:49-53).

 Jesus' proclamation of the kingdom is a refining and purifying fire.  Not a literal scripture text.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

 You cannot follow Jesus if you have hate in your heart. He is about love.

Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:21-22)

 Hint at what will happen to those that follow Him.  Hint..they are the victims. Those who stand firm in their faith will be saved.

He that is not with me is against me. (Matthew 12:30 and Luke 11:23)

Right.  You are either with or against someone.  You have chosen some very odd texts to disagree with it.

 

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:34-38).

 Same as above vis a vis His disciples not be accepted by their own people for following Him.

Acts 5 is also fun, where Ananias and Sapphira, who sold their property and gave only part of the proceeds to the new Christian community. Peter gets the Holy Spirit to strike them dead for holding some back from him.

 

 

wis3boi

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

 

I see this is just like the gamespot video on system wars...you are not defending your religion, you are defending your character.  You have intertwined your religion with your personality, and as such you think me criticising your theism is criticising your character.  And you still didn't answer my question...I'm guessing you don't know why you follow it.

 Nope.  I wasn't referring to myself at all.

Also, In this thread, i don't have a 'belief.'  Being an atheist is not a belief system.  I was hoping you'd understand that

Being atheist you believe there is no God.  You cannot prove you are correct.  Therefore, it's belief.

As for the barbaric book...well, then...

 

I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law (Luke 12:49-53).

 Jesus' proclamation of the kingdom is a refining and purifying fire.  Not a literal scripture text.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

 You cannot follow Jesus if you have hate in your heart. He is about love.

Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:21-22)

 Hint at what will happen to those that follow Him.  Hint..they are the victims. Those who stand firm in their faith will be saved.

He that is not with me is against me. (Matthew 12:30 and Luke 11:23)

Right.  You are either with or against someone.  You have chosen some very odd texts to disagree with it.

 

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:34-38).

 Same as above vis a vis His disciples not be accepted by their own people for following Him.

Acts 5 is also fun, where Ananias and Sapphira, who sold their property and gave only part of the proceeds to the new Christian community. Peter gets the Holy Spirit to strike them dead for holding some back from him.

 

 

LJS9502_basic

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

wis3boi

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

LJS9502_basic

You can study scripture for decades and not learn a thing.  There are millions of christians that disagree with YOUR own interpretations, too.  Again, justifying a book of murder, genocide, rape, and inhumane ideas.  And you keep drinking the koolaid.  Anyone who doesnt read into the texts the same things as you is 'ignorant.'  How adorable.  You can keep your dogma that you believe only because of accident of birth, I'm not thirsty for your ancient koolaid that was fed to you.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

wis3boi

You can study scripture for decades and not learn a thing.  There are millions of christians that disagree with YOUR own interpretations, too.  Again, justifying a book of murder, genocide, rape, and inhumane ideas.  And you keep drinking the koolaid.  Anyone who doesnt read into the texts the same things as you is 'ignorant.'  How adorable.  You can keep your dogma that you believe only because of accident of birth, I'm not thirsty for your ancient koolaid that was fed to you.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I haven't justified anything. You picked the scripture without understanding the meaning. Just another ignorant person that bashes what they don't understand. Kudos for upholding the stereotype.LJS9502_basic

You can study scripture for decades and not learn a thing.  There are millions of christians that disagree with YOUR own interpretations, too.  Again, justifying a book of murder, genocide, rape, and inhumane ideas.  And you keep drinking the koolaid.  Anyone who doesnt read into the texts the same things as you is 'ignorant.'  How adorable.  You can keep your dogma that you believe only because of accident of birth, I'm not thirsty for your ancient koolaid that was fed to you.

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You can study scripture for decades and not learn a thing.  There are millions of christians that disagree with YOUR own interpretations, too.  Again, justifying a book of murder, genocide, rape, and inhumane ideas.  And you keep drinking the koolaid.  Anyone who doesnt read into the texts the same things as you is 'ignorant.'  How adorable.  You can keep your dogma that you believe only because of accident of birth, I'm not thirsty for your ancient koolaid that was fed to you.

wis3boi

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] It's not MY interpretation. :|LJS9502_basic

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

You talk a lot but say nothing that adressed what I brought up.  You continue to brush everything over with vague statements that hold no value.  I can see you aren't interesting in discussing it, just saying things for the sake of saying something.  I really don't give a shit what your book says, as none of your christian brethren have been able to in the past 2000 years shown why anyone should consider what it says at all to begin with over a book like the Illiad or Alice in Wonderland.  It's just a sad, poorly written and immoral text from the ancient middle east and nothing more.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

 

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

wis3boi

You talk a lot but say nothing that adressed what I brought up.  You continue to brush everything over with vague statements that hold no value.  I can see you aren't interesting in discussing it, just saying things for the sake of saying something.  I really don't give a shit what your book says, as none of your christian brethren have been able to in the past 2000 years shown why anyone should consider what it says at all to begin with over a book like the Illiad or Alice in Wonderland.  It's just a sad, poorly written and immoral text from the ancient middle east and nothing more.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

 

Yea, you were fed it from the peanut gallery since birth, and if you were not raised as a christian, you came to it because nearly everyone around you is one too.  There are 41,000 Christian denominations, all with their own interpretations...yours just happens to be the correct one, hmm? How very very lucky for you, to have chosen the one correct one.

wis3boi

You talk a lot but say nothing that adressed what I brought up.  You continue to brush everything over with vague statements that hold no value.  I can see you aren't interesting in discussing it, just saying things for the sake of saying something.  I really don't give a shit what your book says, as none of your christian brethren have been able to in the past 2000 years shown why anyone should consider what it says at all to begin with over a book like the Illiad or Alice in Wonderland.  It's just a sad, poorly written and immoral text from the ancient middle east and nothing more.

The one about getting stoned.

theone86

Amen. 

*sparks up*

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

wis3boi

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

I would say Revelations 21.6

Specifically because Liam Neeson recited it to me.

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] In the NT...the answer would be that you shouldn't think any less of someone who is gay or a different religion. I guess it depends on what you are using for a barometer. Serraph105

I saw a great video called the Gay Debate where someone spent an hour going into great detail using the bible as an argument in favour of gay marriage. It's a great video that I recommend to anyone whether you're religious or not. It truly demonstrates that you can believe in the bible and its teaching and still promote gay marriage. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY

It's hard to say. Since the only passage in the bible that specifically states that homosexuality is wrong is in the OT then I would assume if God is against homosexuality then we're talking the OT God... And in that case, you're pretty much screwed if you talk back against him. Which sucks. I favour the NT interpretation who doesn't condemn homosexuality. But even if he didn't like it, he seems to be all about forgiveness and love now so he'd probably forgive you for talking back against him.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

Tropictrain

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

Please give it up and learn some respect.Tropictrain

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]Please give it up and learn some respect.foxhound_fox

LOL feel like a big man now fox?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

Tropictrain

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

it's the LACK of belief, not the assertion that there is no god.  That's taking things a whole step further.

If you and I came across a giant jar of gumballs, and you said there were an even number of gumballs in there, I'd not believe you.  If you said there were an odd number of gumballs, I'd also not believe you.  It's a rejection of the claims provided, not making a claim itself until it has enough reasonable evidence to.

Now, if you want to know about my personal postion...I am unsure of any possible gods that may exist.  I do not claim knowledge of them or their existence.  However, of all the major religions on Earth, especially the abrahamic god, I am positive that being does not exist.  It takes a theist to define their god before I can state my position.

ITT: 

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

You'll justify any act it seems, esepcially from a god that has a body count of 25 million in the bible, as long as you get to keep your faith.  And no, atheism is not the belief that there is no god...you made that up yourself.  I do understand these texts, I was in the catholic church and involved with it for 17 years.  It's really sad to see the only response you have to critcism of your myth book is to tell me im reading it wrong. 

wis3boi

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

it's the LACK of belief, not the assertion that there is no god.  That's taking things a whole step further.

If you and I came across a giant jar of gumballs, and you said there were an even number of gumballs in there, I'd not believe you.  If you said there were an odd number of gumballs, I'd also not believe you.  It's a rejection of the claims provided, not making a claim itself until it has enough reasonable evidence to.

Now, if you want to know about my personal postion...I am unsure of any possible gods that may exist.  I do not claim knowledge of them or their existence.  However, of all the major religions on Earth, especially the abrahamic god, I am positive that being does not exist.  It takes a theist to define their god before I can state my position.

It sounds like you're an agnostic, not an atheist. Atheists believe there is no God. It is therefore a belief.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

Atheism isn't the belief that there is no god? That's the reason I've been calling myself an atheist all these years...because I don't believe in god. That's what atheism meant when I was growing up. When did the word change? I'm always amazed at how fast words can change. 

Tropictrain

it's the LACK of belief, not the assertion that there is no god.  That's taking things a whole step further.

If you and I came across a giant jar of gumballs, and you said there were an even number of gumballs in there, I'd not believe you.  If you said there were an odd number of gumballs, I'd also not believe you.  It's a rejection of the claims provided, not making a claim itself until it has enough reasonable evidence to.

Now, if you want to know about my personal postion...I am unsure of any possible gods that may exist.  I do not claim knowledge of them or their existence.  However, of all the major religions on Earth, especially the abrahamic god, I am positive that being does not exist.  It takes a theist to define their god before I can state my position.

It sounds like you're an agnostic, not an atheist. Atheists believe there is no God. It is therefore a belief.

Learning the terms for your own positions helps...

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

it's the LACK of belief, not the assertion that there is no god.  That's taking things a whole step further.

 

If you and I came across a giant jar of gumballs, and you said there were an even number of gumballs in there, I'd not believe you.  If you said there were an odd number of gumballs, I'd also not believe you.  It's a rejection of the claims provided, not making a claim itself until it has enough reasonable evidence to.

 

Now, if you want to know about my personal postion...I am unsure of any possible gods that may exist.  I do not claim knowledge of them or their existence.  However, of all the major religions on Earth, especially the abrahamic god, I am positive that being does not exist.  It takes a theist to define their god before I can state my position.

wis3boi

It sounds like you're an agnostic, not an atheist. Atheists believe there is no God. It is therefore a belief.

Learning the terms for your own positions helps...

So where is the lack of belief here? Both agnostic and gnostic atheists clearly believe gods don't exist. 

You talk a lot but say nothingwis3boi

So where is the lack of belief here? Both agnostic and gnostic atheists clearly believe gods don't exist. Tropictrain

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]So where is the lack of belief here? Both agnostic and gnostic atheists clearly believe gods don't exist. Randolph

I'm being serious. I don't troll. "Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist." 

[QUOTE="Randolph"][QUOTE="Tropictrain"]So where is the lack of belief here? Both agnostic and gnostic atheists clearly believe gods don't exist. Tropictrain

I'm being serious. I don't troll. "Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist." 

Redefine it however you wish, that's the way it is, sorry.  Go into the philosophy department of any university and you'll get the same answer

Ezekiel 23:20: There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. It's like bad erotic fanfiction writing.XilePrincess

[QUOTE="XilePrincess"]Ezekiel 23:20: There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. It's like bad erotic fanfiction writing.MakeMeaSammitch

Fifty Shades of Ezekiel

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]You talk a lot but say nothingRandolph

[QUOTE="Randolph"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]You talk a lot but say nothingLJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No no I wasn't. Does it make you feel secure to believe that though? The scripture you selected wasn't even anything that required much knowledge to figure out. I could understand symbolism being difficult for you....but actual words? Kind of sad dude....LJS9502_basic

You talk a lot but say nothing that adressed what I brought up.  You continue to brush everything over with vague statements that hold no value.  I can see you aren't interesting in discussing it, just saying things for the sake of saying something.  I really don't give a shit what your book says, as none of your christian brethren have been able to in the past 2000 years shown why anyone should consider what it says at all to begin with over a book like the Illiad or Alice in Wonderland.  It's just a sad, poorly written and immoral text from the ancient middle east and nothing more.

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="Randolph"] Are you being dense on purpose to troll, or are you just an idiot? I can't honestly tell.wis3boi

I'm being serious. I don't troll. "Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist." 

Redefine it however you wish, that's the way it is, sorry.  Go into the philosophy department of any university and you'll get the same answer

Never was a big fan of philosophy. I'm a pre-service English teacher. And they clearly mean the same thing. Therefore, atheism is a belief. 

No. I haven't flipped through a Bible in probably 10 years, so I don't have a favorite verse.

"Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."Tropictrain

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]"Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."foxhound_fox

I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." 

Never was a big fan of philosophy. I'm a pre-service English teacher. And they clearly mean the same thing. Therefore, atheism is a belief. Tropictrain

I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." Tropictrain

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." foxhound_fox

I still don't think you understand what I'm asking. I don't care about the difference between an agnostic or gnostic atheist. My question has absolutely nothing to do with that. 

I find it moderately upsetting how often OT feels the need to debate the definition of atheism.

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]

[QUOTE="XilePrincess"]Ezekiel 23:20: There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. It's like bad erotic fanfiction writing.wis3boi

Fifty Shades of Ezekiel

I told you all the atheists were here to pick a fight.

"Peaceful discussion"... "debate"... bullshit. You can only have a debate if you're open to changing your mind on certain things, and it's clear that the "anti-God squad" shut the door on that a LONG time ago.

I don't push my beliefs or my faith on others... apparently, OT's atheists don't share my restraint.

I was brought up to respect other people's beliefs, even if I didn't agree with them. Such an open display of disrespect for the TC and his faith absolutely disgusts me, and degrades anyone who participates in it. It's sad that people have stooped so low.

Bran, I apologize for sidetracking this into a holy war. I have a temper, and I'm not afraid to admit it. However, if I hadn't stood up and pointed out that you were, indeed, being mocked, I would have blown an aneurysm.

I told you all the atheists were here to pick a fight.

"Peaceful discussion"... "debate"... bullshit. You can only have a debate if you're open to changing your mind on certain things, and it's clear that the "anti-God squad" shut the door on that a LONG time ago.

I don't push my beliefs or my faith on others... apparently, OT's atheists don't share my restraint.

 

I was brought up to respect other people's beliefs, even if I didn't agree with them. Such an open display of disrespect for the TC and his faith absolutely disgusts me, and degrades anyone who participates in it. It's sad that people have stooped so low.

Bran, I apologize for sidetracking this into a holy war. I have a temper, and I'm not afraid to admit it. However, if I hadn't stood up and pointed out that you were, indeed, being mocked, I would have blown an aneurysm.

OrkHammer007

Open to changing your mind is not the same thing as accepting anything and everything that people happen to suggest as true.  In order to change rational people's minds you have to make a rational argument, asnd the argument for god is anything but rational.

Define "push."

I think atheist srespect other people's beliefs, they respect them insofar as they're important to religious people, which is all they really deserve.  If you mean respect on an intellectual level with theological arguments being taken seriously despite the total and complete lack of evidence, despite all the evidence pointing in the opposite direction, despite better explanations for just about everything, then no they don't respect their beliefs, nor should they.  Beliefs do not automatically deserve unqualified respect just because they are beliefs.

You're right, perhaps we should stop mocking Bran and start mocking you.  "Derp, beliefs deserve to be respected just because they're beliefs, derp!  I have to respect Charles Manson because killing people was part of his belief system, derp!"  I get an aneurysm when stupid people act like we should respect anything that comes out of any idiot's mouth just because they could muster the breath to say it.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Tropictrain"]"Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."Tropictrain

I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." 

i would guess hardcore atheists would say it's not a belief but a fact that god does not exist.  They don't believe it, they know it

[QUOTE="Tropictrain"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] There is a subtle difference you are missing. An agnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, but do not know this for sure (i.e. 100%)". A gnostic atheist says "I do not believe in a God, and do know this for sure". Gnostic atheists are extremely rare and usually only occur in adolescence. Most atheists, when challenged, will only assert an agnostic stance ultimately. Even Christopher Hitchens was an agnostic atheist, he just rejected the idea that the Abrahamic God is "just, loving, benevolent, etc".lostrib

I didn't say agnostic and gnostic atheists are the same. I said ""Does not believe any gods exist." is the exact same thing as "Believes gods do not exist."" My argument was that atheism is a belief. "Does not believe any gods exist" was listed at the top in both categories. Therefore both believe gods don't exist. One claims to know they don't and the other doesn't. This I understand. But the fact remains that atheists "Do not believe any gods exist." And you refuse to tell me how that is different than "Believes gods do not exist." 

i would guess hardcore atheists would say it's not a belief but a fact that god does not exist.  They don't believe it, they know it

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