Do You Celebrate Christmas a religious holiday?

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#1 Posted by d_parker (2128 posts) -

Just curious, but do you celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday or not?

People have been celebrating this time of year long before there were Christians and I don't think you can say well if you celebrate Christmas, you have to be Christian.

Personally, it's nice to have at least one day of the year where we try to be nice to each other and go out of our way to spend time with our friends and family. The religious and gift giving parts of the holiday are not so important to me. Although I'll never turn down a Christmas present or cookie.

For whatever reason you celebrate and even if you don't, I hope you have a pleasant Christmas and the day finds all of your friends and family healthy and happy.

Edit: Yes, I know I spelled religious wrong. Doh.

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#2 Posted by Engrish_Major (17373 posts) -
Nope.
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#3 Posted by Artekus (15700 posts) -

Nah, more of a cultural holiday.

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#4 Posted by pygmahia5 (7428 posts) -
no. im glad my family doesnt either. well, my family in ecuador do, but not my fam FROM ecuador. thank god (pun intended) we just see it as a nice way to spend time with your family, like you said. its also very hard to NOT eat the desserts lol.
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#5 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -
Yes. And just to clarify...without the Christian Christmas you wouldn't be celebrating a holiday. The pagans proper...not the current wave of neo pagans died off a long time ago...and so without Christianity creating the new celebration then we'd just go about our business.
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#6 Posted by ferrari2001 (17772 posts) -
Yes I do.
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#7 Posted by Legit101 (25 posts) -
No, I don't really celebrate it much either.
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#8 Posted by tenaka2 (17226 posts) -

Yes. And just to clarify...without the Christian Christmas you wouldn't be celebrating a holiday. The pagans proper...not the current wave of neo pagans died off a long time ago...and so without Christianity creating the new celebration then we'd just go about our business.LJS9502_basic

no need to attempt to get a dig in, either way your wrong, if the christians didn't steal the pagan celebration it would still be celebrated.

Besides which didnt someone say jesus if born at all was born some timein aug? Strange that people still celebrate Valentines day or did the christians hi-jack that one also?

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#9 Posted by Krelian-co (13274 posts) -

christmas is famous because everyone gets to receive awesome presents and eat awesome stuff in family, whoever thinks other people are really celebrating a religious holiday are deluding themselves, thats why santa is mainly the figure of christmas.

i don't see holy week being nearly as important as christmas and s 10x times more important guess why,

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#10 Posted by CommanderShiro (21746 posts) -

No, I just celebrate the time with family/friends, gift giving, and decorations aspect of the holiday. I'm not Christian btw.

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#11 Posted by pygmahia5 (7428 posts) -
lol, and without religions we'd have less wars. although im sure we'd find other reasons to kill ourselves. #religiousthreadsFTW!
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#12 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yes. And just to clarify...without the Christian Christmas you wouldn't be celebrating a holiday. The pagans proper...not the current wave of neo pagans died off a long time ago...and so without Christianity creating the new celebration then we'd just go about our business.tenaka2

no need to attempt to get a dig in, either way your wrong, if the christians didn't steal the pagan celebration it would still be celebrated.

Besides which didnt someone say jesus if born at all was born some timein aug? Strange that people still celebrate Valentines day or did the christians hi-jack that one also?

Not actually a dig. Just a reality. The Christians were converting the pagans. As such the holidays would have disappeared as well. So without a new meaning for the holiday....the soltice would have just been something you might hear of in history cIass.

Aug? That would be a guess...I've heard spring as more likely. Nonetheless, picking a date for a celebration doesn't mean the celebration doesn't exist.

Valentine's Day? The day is named after one or more early Christian martyrs named Saint Valentine, and was established by Pope Gelasius I in 496 AD.

It's not a day celebrated other than being a day for a particular saint. The commercial holiday came much later and took his name.;)

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#13 Posted by kittensRjerks (3802 posts) -

nope

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#14 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -
lol, and without religions we'd have less wars. although im sure we'd find other reasons to kill ourselves. #religiousthreadsFTW!pygmahia5
A whole whopping 7% less....wow.
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#15 Posted by tenaka2 (17226 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yes. And just to clarify...without the Christian Christmas you wouldn't be celebrating a holiday. The pagans proper...not the current wave of neo pagans died off a long time ago...and so without Christianity creating the new celebration then we'd just go about our business.LJS9502_basic

no need to attempt to get a dig in, either way your wrong, if the christians didn't steal the pagan celebration it would still be celebrated.

Besides which didnt someone say jesus if born at all was born some timein aug? Strange that people still celebrate Valentines day or did the christians hi-jack that one also?

Not actually a dig. Just a reality. The Christians were converting the pagans. As such the holidays would have disappeared as well. So without a new meaning for the holiday....the soltice would have just been something you might hear of in history cIass.

Aug? That would be a guess...I've heard spring as more likely. Nonetheless, picking a date for a celebration doesn't mean the celebration doesn't exist.

What about valentines day? Do you think that is celebrated because of christinity or has it stayed true to its original pagan roots?

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#16 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -

i say my 40psalms and go on a shooting spree, because i want to give credence to the views found in OT

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#17 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

no need to attempt to get a dig in, either way your wrong, if the christians didn't steal the pagan celebration it would still be celebrated.

Besides which didnt someone say jesus if born at all was born some timein aug? Strange that people still celebrate Valentines day or did the christians hi-jack that one also?

tenaka2

Not actually a dig. Just a reality. The Christians were converting the pagans. As such the holidays would have disappeared as well. So without a new meaning for the holiday....the soltice would have just been something you might hear of in history cIass.

Aug? That would be a guess...I've heard spring as more likely. Nonetheless, picking a date for a celebration doesn't mean the celebration doesn't exist.

What about valentines day? Do you think that is celebrated because of christinity or has it stayed true to its original pagan roots?

Read my edit....
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#18 Posted by Jackc8 (8515 posts) -

We have a very Santa-based Christmas at our house. All the fun stuff and none of that wearisome "Jesus died for you sins" junk. I always feel sorry for the kids when the parents brag about reading chapters from the Bible on Christmas. I can just imagine what an awesome opportunity that must be for Bible-thumping dad to harshly castigate his giddily cheerful kids because they're not being morose enough.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#19 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -

We have a very Santa-based Christmas at our house. All the fun stuff and none of that wearisome "Jesus died for you sins" junk. I always feel sorry for the kids when the parents brag about reading chapters from the Bible on Christmas. I can just imagine what an awesome opportunity that must be for Bible-thumping dad to harshly castigate his giddily cheerful kids because they're not being morose enough.

Jackc8
You are confusing Christmas with Easter FYI....
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#20 Posted by Planet_Pluto (2235 posts) -

Yep

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#21 Posted by tenaka2 (17226 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yes. And just to clarify...without the Christian Christmas you wouldn't be celebrating a holiday. The pagans proper...not the current wave of neo pagans died off a long time ago...and so without Christianity creating the new celebration then we'd just go about our business.LJS9502_basic

no need to attempt to get a dig in, either way your wrong, if the christians didn't steal the pagan celebration it would still be celebrated.

Besides which didnt someone say jesus if born at all was born some timein aug? Strange that people still celebrate Valentines day or did the christians hi-jack that one also?

Not actually a dig. Just a reality. The Christians were converting the pagans. As such the holidays would have disappeared as well. So without a new meaning for the holiday....the soltice would have just been something you might hear of in history cIass.

Aug? That would be a guess...I've heard spring as more likely. Nonetheless, picking a date for a celebration doesn't mean the celebration doesn't exist.

Valentine's Day? The day is named after one or more early Christian martyrs named Saint Valentine, and was established by Pope Gelasius I in 496 AD.

It's not a day celebrated other than being a day for a particular saint. The commercial holiday came much later and took his name.;)

Valintines was also originally a pagan holiday, but I guess you already know that.

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#22 Posted by tenaka2 (17226 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jackc8"]

We have a very Santa-based Christmas at our house. All the fun stuff and none of that wearisome "Jesus died for you sins" junk. I always feel sorry for the kids when the parents brag about reading chapters from the Bible on Christmas. I can just imagine what an awesome opportunity that must be for Bible-thumping dad to harshly castigate his giddily cheerful kids because they're not being morose enough.

LJS9502_basic

You are confusing Christmas with Easter FYI....

Easter the other stolen pagan holiday :P

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#23 Posted by pygmahia5 (7428 posts) -
[QUOTE="pygmahia5"]lol, and without religions we'd have less wars. although im sure we'd find other reasons to kill ourselves. #religiousthreadsFTW!LJS9502_basic
A whole whopping 7% less....wow.

holocaust, spanish inquisition, the current "war" and other ones i am too lazy to type out. christians wouldnt bother me as much if they didnt try to "save" me all the damn time. respect other peoples beliefs. and leave it at that. GD
Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#24 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

no need to attempt to get a dig in, either way your wrong, if the christians didn't steal the pagan celebration it would still be celebrated.

Besides which didnt someone say jesus if born at all was born some timein aug? Strange that people still celebrate Valentines day or did the christians hi-jack that one also?

tenaka2

Not actually a dig. Just a reality. The Christians were converting the pagans. As such the holidays would have disappeared as well. So without a new meaning for the holiday....the soltice would have just been something you might hear of in history cIass.

Aug? That would be a guess...I've heard spring as more likely. Nonetheless, picking a date for a celebration doesn't mean the celebration doesn't exist.

Valentine's Day? The day is named after one or more early Christian martyrs named Saint Valentine, and was established by Pope Gelasius I in 496 AD.

It's not a day celebrated other than being a day for a particular saint. The commercial holiday came much later and took his name.;)

Valintines was also originally a pagan holiday, but I guess you already know that.

Valentine's isn't really a holiday for Christians. It's just another day. Specific saints have a day for said saint....but it's not a celebration and it's not a holiday. Not sure what you think about picking a random day for a saint equates to celebrating anything. Check Catholic calendars and you'll see many saints get a day. But it's not a holiday. Not sure what point you are making here.
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#25 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"]lol, and without religions we'd have less wars. although im sure we'd find other reasons to kill ourselves. #religiousthreadsFTW!pygmahia5
A whole whopping 7% less....wow.

holocaust, spanish inquisition, the current "war" and other ones i am too lazy to type out. christians wouldnt bother me as much if they didnt try to "save" me all the damn time. respect other peoples beliefs. and leave it at that. GD

According to the Encyclopedia of war....religion accounts for only 7% of wars throughout history. Current war? What current war is religious in nature?
Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#26 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jackc8"]

We have a very Santa-based Christmas at our house. All the fun stuff and none of that wearisome "Jesus died for you sins" junk. I always feel sorry for the kids when the parents brag about reading chapters from the Bible on Christmas. I can just imagine what an awesome opportunity that must be for Bible-thumping dad to harshly castigate his giddily cheerful kids because they're not being morose enough.

tenaka2

You are confusing Christmas with Easter FYI....

Easter the other stolen pagan holiday :P

Didn't know pagans celebrated Jesus' death and resurrection.
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#27 Posted by deactivated-5a9b3f32ef4e9 (7779 posts) -

Nope, it's just some time off.

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#28 Posted by pygmahia5 (7428 posts) -
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] A whole whopping 7% less....wow.

holocaust, spanish inquisition, the current "war" and other ones i am too lazy to type out. christians wouldnt bother me as much if they didnt try to "save" me all the damn time. respect other peoples beliefs. and leave it at that. GD

According to the Encyclopedia of war....religion accounts for only 7% of wars throughout history. Current war? What current war is religious in nature?

im talkin about the religious terrorists. "for allah" and all that.
Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#29 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -
[QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"] holocaust, spanish inquisition, the current "war" and other ones i am too lazy to type out. christians wouldnt bother me as much if they didnt try to "save" me all the damn time. respect other peoples beliefs. and leave it at that. GD

According to the Encyclopedia of war....religion accounts for only 7% of wars throughout history. Current war? What current war is religious in nature?

im talkin about the religious terrorists. "for allah" and all that.

That's a political war...not religious. What a naive view of current events.
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#30 Posted by ferrari2001 (17772 posts) -
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not actually a dig. Just a reality. The Christians were converting the pagans. As such the holidays would have disappeared as well. So without a new meaning for the holiday....the soltice would have just been something you might hear of in history cIass.

Aug? That would be a guess...I've heard spring as more likely. Nonetheless, picking a date for a celebration doesn't mean the celebration doesn't exist.

Valentine's Day? The day is named after one or more early Christian martyrs named Saint Valentine, and was established by Pope Gelasius I in 496 AD.

It's not a day celebrated other than being a day for a particular saint. The commercial holiday came much later and took his name.;)

LJS9502_basic

Valintines was also originally a pagan holiday, but I guess you already know that.

Valentine's isn't really a holiday for Christians. It's just another day. Specific saints have a day for said saint....but it's not a celebration and it's not a holiday. Not sure what you think about picking a random day for a saint equates to celebrating anything. Check Catholic calendars and you'll see many saints get a day. But it's not a holiday. Not sure what point you are making here.

Actually Feb 14, Valentines day, is the day that St. Valentine was buried, hence the reasons it's celebrated when it is. It wasn't a random date.
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#31 Posted by pygmahia5 (7428 posts) -
[QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]According to the Encyclopedia of war....religion accounts for only 7% of wars throughout history. Current war? What current war is religious in nature?LJS9502_basic
im talkin about the religious terrorists. "for allah" and all that.

That's a political war...not religious. What a naive view of current events.

you're right. i should believe that a man had strength in his hair, and that a talking snake said dont eat an apple. and that a man walked a water. and that all the animals in the entire world fit on an arc. how childish and immature of me!!! please forgive me.
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#32 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -
[QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"] im talkin about the religious terrorists. "for allah" and all that.

That's a political war...not religious. What a naive view of current events.

you're right. i should believe that a man had strength in his hair, and that a talking snake said dont eat an apple. and that a man walked a water. and that all the animals in the entire world fit on an arc. how childish and immature of me!!! please forgive me.

You seem to mix up symbolism. As for miracles....well I do believe they exist.
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#33 Posted by ferrari2001 (17772 posts) -
[QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"] im talkin about the religious terrorists. "for allah" and all that.

That's a political war...not religious. What a naive view of current events.

you're right. i should believe that a man had strength in his hair, and that a talking snake said dont eat an apple. and that a man walked a water. and that all the animals in the entire world fit on an arc. how childish and immature of me!!! please forgive me.

lol what? That has absolutely nothing to do with the current discussion?
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#34 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -
[QUOTE="ferrari2001"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] That's a political war...not religious. What a naive view of current events.

you're right. i should believe that a man had strength in his hair, and that a talking snake said dont eat an apple. and that a man walked a water. and that all the animals in the entire world fit on an arc. how childish and immature of me!!! please forgive me.

lol what? That has absolutely nothing to do with the current discussion?

It's called deflection....
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#35 Posted by pygmahia5 (7428 posts) -
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] That's a political war...not religious. What a naive view of current events.

you're right. i should believe that a man had strength in his hair, and that a talking snake said dont eat an apple. and that a man walked a water. and that all the animals in the entire world fit on an arc. how childish and immature of me!!! please forgive me.

You seem to mix up symbolism. As for miracles....well I do believe they exist.

Symbolism....hmmm...why is it that most Christians ive come across, if not all, believe those stories are FACT. i think they should be seen as lessons but most think they are real. ancient alien theory is where its at.
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#36 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -
[QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"] you're right. i should believe that a man had strength in his hair, and that a talking snake said dont eat an apple. and that a man walked a water. and that all the animals in the entire world fit on an arc. how childish and immature of me!!! please forgive me.

You seem to mix up symbolism. As for miracles....well I do believe they exist.

Symbolism....hmmm...why is it that most Christians ive come across, if not all, believe those stories are FACT. i think they should be seen as lessons but most think they are real. ancient alien theory is where its at.

Most Christians? I'd imagine that's the minority not majority.
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#37 Posted by tenaka2 (17226 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not actually a dig. Just a reality. The Christians were converting the pagans. As such the holidays would have disappeared as well. So without a new meaning for the holiday....the soltice would have just been something you might hear of in history cIass.

Aug? That would be a guess...I've heard spring as more likely. Nonetheless, picking a date for a celebration doesn't mean the celebration doesn't exist.

Valentine's Day? The day is named after one or more early Christian martyrs named Saint Valentine, and was established by Pope Gelasius I in 496 AD.

It's not a day celebrated other than being a day for a particular saint. The commercial holiday came much later and took his name.;)

LJS9502_basic

Valintines was also originally a pagan holiday, but I guess you already know that.

Valentine's isn't really a holiday for Christians. It's just another day. Specific saints have a day for said saint....but it's not a celebration and it's not a holiday. Not sure what you think about picking a random day for a saint equates to celebrating anything. Check Catholic calendars and you'll see many saints get a day. But it's not a holiday. Not sure what point you are making here.

you argued that without christianity there would be no holiday at christmas even though it was originally a pagan holiday that christianity corrupted.

Yet many people all over the world celebrate valentines day even though it is also a pagan holiday.

Why would your rules apply to christmas and not valentines day?

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#38 Posted by Jandurin (95574 posts) -
I don't believe in Christians.
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#39 Posted by pygmahia5 (7428 posts) -
[QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]You seem to mix up symbolism. As for miracles....well I do believe they exist. LJS9502_basic
Symbolism....hmmm...why is it that most Christians ive come across, if not all, believe those stories are FACT. i think they should be seen as lessons but most think they are real. ancient alien theory is where its at.

Most Christians? I'd imagine that's the minority not majority.

than maybe im just unlucky idk. deflection. ok, lets get back then. i dont think we'd be in a world of hurt without religions. of course they do great things for people, and yes you're right that there would be no xmas or whatever your point was without it, but i can't help but look at those wars in the past and think, "if we didnt have religion, would there be less? or would we become more racist and kill each other because of that?"
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#40 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -

you argued that without christianity there would be no holiday at christmas even though it was originally a pagan holiday that christianity corrupted.

Yet many people all over the world celebrate valentines day even though it is also a pagan holiday.

Why would your rules apply to christmas and not valentines day?

tenaka2

What I said was if Christianity hadn't given a celebration for Dec 25 then nothing would be celebrated. Pagans were converted and their old holidays no longer celebrated. Reusing a date does not mean one is celebrating a pagan holiday. Let's say you and I have the same birthday. On that date we both celebrate. But I am not celebrating your birthday nor you mine. Hence same date....entirely different celebration. I always find it amusing how non Christians always use the line about a pagan holiday. So what. Society hasn't celebrated the date as a pagan holiday in a very long time. And it's the reason for the celebration that gives the meaning. Not a date.

The current celebration if you want to call it a holiday....it's not by the way.....for Valentine's Day is a commercial day that puts pressure on the public to spend money or risk ruining a relationship. It has...and never did....nothing to do with Christianity. And it's not a pagan celebration today but a commercial celebration of "love".

I haven't called either day a pagan holiday. You have.:|

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#41 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -
[QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"] Symbolism....hmmm...why is it that most Christians ive come across, if not all, believe those stories are FACT. i think they should be seen as lessons but most think they are real. ancient alien theory is where its at.

Most Christians? I'd imagine that's the minority not majority.

than maybe im just unlucky idk. deflection. ok, lets get back then. i dont think we'd be in a world of hurt without religions. of course they do great things for people, and yes you're right that there would be no xmas or whatever your point was without it, but i can't help but look at those wars in the past and think, "if we didnt have religion, would there be less? or would we become more racist and kill each other because of that?"

But again religion is a very very small reason for war. And if someone is saying that then they are uneducated and uniformed.
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#42 Posted by Frame_Dragger (9581 posts) -
I think it was originally celebrated as something to do with priests molesting alter-boys... I'm a little fuzzy on the details though.
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#43 Posted by tenaka2 (17226 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

you argued that without christianity there would be no holiday at christmas even though it was originally a pagan holiday that christianity corrupted.

Yet many people all over the world celebrate valentines day even though it is also a pagan holiday.

Why would your rules apply to christmas and not valentines day?

LJS9502_basic

What I said was if Christianity hadn't given a celebration for Dec 25 then nothing would be celebrated. Pagans were converted and their old holidays no longer celebrated. Reusing a date does not mean one is celebrating a pagan holiday. Let's say you and I have the same birthday. On that date we both celebrate. But I am not celebrating your birthday nor you mine. Hence same date....entirely different celebration. I always find it amusing how non Christians always use the line about a pagan holiday. So what. Society hasn't celebrated the date as a pagan holiday in a very long time. And it's the reason for the celebration that gives the meaning. Not a date.

The current celebration if you want to call it a holiday....it's not by the way.....for Valentine's Day is a commercial day that puts pressure on the public to spend money or risk ruining a relationship. It has...and never did....nothing to do with Christianity. And it's not a pagan celebration today but a commercial celebration of "love".

I haven't called either day a pagan holiday. You have.:|

Your just avoiding the point, Valentines still exists even though it was originally a pagan event.

Christmas would also still exist in the same way valentines day has.

It doesnt really matter that the holidays were originally pagan and that the christians twisted them to their own purpose, however it is disingenuous to pretend that it didn't happen.

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#44 Posted by pygmahia5 (7428 posts) -
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Most Christians? I'd imagine that's the minority not majority.

than maybe im just unlucky idk. deflection. ok, lets get back then. i dont think we'd be in a world of hurt without religions. of course they do great things for people, and yes you're right that there would be no xmas or whatever your point was without it, but i can't help but look at those wars in the past and think, "if we didnt have religion, would there be less? or would we become more racist and kill each other because of that?"

But again religion is a very very small reason for war. And if someone is saying that then they are uneducated and uniformed.

i wouldnt say that. i talk to my friends about this and we went to a pretty prestigious school. highly educated and pretty informed. i would say we are all pretty intelligent. assumptions ftw i guess.
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#45 Posted by Legacy-of-Todd (539 posts) -

[QUOTE="pygmahia5"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]According to the Encyclopedia of war....religion accounts for only 7% of wars throughout history. Current war? What current war is religious in nature?LJS9502_basic
im talkin about the religious terrorists. "for allah" and all that.

That's a political war...not religious. What a naive view of current events.

Um..Er... I'm not going to enter this thread.

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#46 Posted by deactivated-5b19214ec908b (25072 posts) -

I celebrate it and I'm not religious. 50% of the country are atheist yet there are still Christmas decorations everywhere and tons of people crowding the shops (more so than usual), so I presume I'm not alone on that.

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#47 Posted by scorch-62 (29763 posts) -
Christmas is consumerism at its finest. Nothing more.
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#48 Posted by Just-Breathe (3130 posts) -
No. I think its just one big commercial honestly.
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#49 Posted by d_parker (2128 posts) -

Yes. And just to clarify...without the Christian Christmas you wouldn't be celebrating a holiday. The pagans proper...not the current wave of neo pagans died off a long time ago...and so without Christianity creating the new celebration then we'd just go about our business.LJS9502_basic

I'd have to disagree with you there. Not sure of the climate where you live but where I live (until recently) it used to get pretty cold here around December and January and if there were no Christmas per se, I have to believe people would celebrate something around this time, just so they wouldn't go insane from the dreary grey skies and cold.

Now people in nice warm year round climates, I can see the middle of winter meaning nothing in particular to them...

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#50 Posted by LJS9502_basic (167140 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

you argued that without christianity there would be no holiday at christmas even though it was originally a pagan holiday that christianity corrupted.

Yet many people all over the world celebrate valentines day even though it is also a pagan holiday.

Why would your rules apply to christmas and not valentines day?

tenaka2

What I said was if Christianity hadn't given a celebration for Dec 25 then nothing would be celebrated. Pagans were converted and their old holidays no longer celebrated. Reusing a date does not mean one is celebrating a pagan holiday. Let's say you and I have the same birthday. On that date we both celebrate. But I am not celebrating your birthday nor you mine. Hence same date....entirely different celebration. I always find it amusing how non Christians always use the line about a pagan holiday. So what. Society hasn't celebrated the date as a pagan holiday in a very long time. And it's the reason for the celebration that gives the meaning. Not a date.

The current celebration if you want to call it a holiday....it's not by the way.....for Valentine's Day is a commercial day that puts pressure on the public to spend money or risk ruining a relationship. It has...and never did....nothing to do with Christianity. And it's not a pagan celebration today but a commercial celebration of "love".

I haven't called either day a pagan holiday. You have.:|

Your just avoiding the point, Valentines still exists even though it was originally a pagan event.

Christmas would also still exist in the same way valentines day has.

It doesnt really matter that the holidays were originally pagan and that the christians twisted them to their own purpose, however it is disingenuous to pretend that it didn't happen.

Uh...you're not getting it. Other than having the date for a saint it has nothing to do with Christianity. Saints get days....St Patrick, St Valentine, St John, St Steven, St Thomas Beckett....it's nothing moe than a feast day and isn't celebrated outside of the day set aside for the saint. There are 365 days in a year....there are bound to overlapping events on said day.

I haven't avoided any point. If anything the name of the saint was taken for the commercial day. It's nothing more than a feast day. You have a magic crystal ball that tells you that the date would still be celebrated long after the culture died? Because ancient cultures did have specific days that we no longer celebrate today. And I doubt anyone would have celebrated the winter solstice even decades after paganism died out.

No what happened is they picked the same date. It's really that simple. That would be like if I had a fantastic military and invaded the UK and made it subservient to me and my co conspirators. I don't want to celebrate Guy Fawkes anymore but I want to keep the natives happy. So I create Liberation Day...make it a bank holiday, close the shops, have everyone get a paid holiday, and light up the sky with fireworks. Note...I'm NOT celebrating Guy Fawkes Day anymore. I'm celebrating something entirely different but instead of creating a new day.....I give you the same day off to avoid confusion and keep the population as happy as they're going to be under my reign. If you can't see that the meaning of the day is what is celebrated and NOT the date then I don't know what to tell you.