Do you beleive in god OT ?

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#101 Posted by Dogswithguns (11359 posts) -

Do I have to?.. don't me make if I don't.

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#102 Posted by Nuck81 (6981 posts) -

I believes Humans have a soul, so I believe in God.

Not sure on the specifics though

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#103 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@bforrester420 said:

I don't write much COBOL anymore. We've been gradually moving apps off our mainframe for a while now. I deal almost exclusively with open systems platforms (UNIX, Linux, Windows, etc) these days. We do have some old legacy systems that we still have to support though.

I've done some extensive work with COBOL. Still hate that bitch. >:-[

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#104 Posted by plageus900 (2434 posts) -

I believe in myself.

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#105 Posted by Gaming-Planet (19119 posts) -

Yes, the one and only God. The God we do not need to worship, the God that is humble and does not speak for himself, the God that gives me freedom and the ability of self-awareness. I do not follow a religion, religion has done nothing but oppressed people.

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#106 Posted by indzman (27735 posts) -

@bforrester420 said:

@thegerg said:

@bforrester420: I'm satisfied with my size, strength, and 300 APFT score. Your continued harping on the topic tells me that you're not nearly as confident about yourself.

Wow, you can jog, do situps, pushups, and a couple of pullups. When you're 5'7" 155lbs, you should be able to accomplish those tasks. Let me know when you can squat, dead lift, and military press some weight.

Is this you, or is this not you? If it's not you, why do you have a man's scrawny, undefined torso in your profile images? That's not exactly the visage of a man who is in "darn good shape".

How did a religion thread turned into a abs thread ??? LOL

and Thegreg is fat = P

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#107 Edited by DonQuixote (126 posts) -

The posts here are ridiculous. People put their ideas of god in a realm that cannot be properly discussed rationally... which makes no sense. Nothing should be put into such category. For example, "I just know he is real" or "I feel it" or other such similar nonsense. None of those feelings prove anything nor suggest anything other than you being delusional. Other new age definitions of god are so diluted of meaning that well... they don't mean anything. Example, "god is energy," "god is consciousness." Once again... meaningless nonsense.

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#108 Edited by MirkoS77 (12907 posts) -

No, I am not so arrogant nor egotistical to believe the creator of existence cares for me.

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#109 Posted by korvus (10998 posts) -

@Gaming-Planet said:

Yes, the one and only God. The God we do not need to worship, the God that is humble and does not speak for himself, the God that gives me freedom and the ability of self-awareness. I do not follow a religion, religion has done nothing but oppressed people.

I like your definition of God. You'd think that someone so powerful would be immune to pettiness such as the need for approval and worship from us. If there is a God, I hope it's like you envision it =)

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#110 Posted by bforrester420 (3480 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

@bforrester420 said:

I don't write much COBOL anymore. We've been gradually moving apps off our mainframe for a while now. I deal almost exclusively with open systems platforms (UNIX, Linux, Windows, etc) these days. We do have some old legacy systems that we still have to support though.

I've done some extensive work with COBOL. Still hate that bitch. >:-[

I work with a guy that's an old school mainframe programmer. This dude, Jon Wessler, literally wrote wrote an industry manual on COBOL.

http://www.amazon.com/Cobol-Unleashed-Jon-Wessler/dp/0672312549

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#111 Edited by alim298 (2747 posts) -

@korvus said:

I like your definition of God. You'd think that someone so powerful would be immune to pettiness such as the need for approval and worship from us. If there is a God, I hope it's like you envision it =)

He IS like that:

Not trying to preach Quran or anything but it's the only thing religion-related that I know well. Besides there's a search engine :D

and whoever strives hard, he strives only for his own soul for God is free of all needs from all creation.

if you disbelieve, God is rich, independent of you. yet he does not approve of disbelief to his worshipers, but if you believe he will approve it in you. no laden soul shall bear another's load. then, to God you shall return and he will tell to you what you have done. he knows the innermost of your chests.

and certainly we gave wisdom to luqman, saying: be grateful to God. and whoever is grateful, he is only grateful for his own soul; and whoever is ungrateful, then surely God is self-sufficient, praised.

said one who had knowledge of the book: "I will bring it to thee within the twinkling of an eye!" then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, he said: "this is by the grace of my lord!- to test me whether i am grateful or ungrateful! and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my lord is free of all needs, supreme in honour !"

kind words and the covering of faults are better than charity followed by injury. God is free of all wants, and he is most-forbearing.

o ye who believe! give of the good things which ye have (honourably) earned, and of the fruits of the earth which we have produced for you, and do not even aim at getting anything which is bad, in order that out of it ye may give away something, when ye yourselves would not receive it except with closed eyes. and know that God is free of all wants, and worthy of all praise.

and Moses said: "if ye show ingratitude, ye and all on earth together, yet is God free of all wants, worthy of all praise.

to God belong all things in the heavens and on earth. verily we have directed the people of the book before you, and you (o muslims) to fear God. but if ye deny him, lo! unto God belong all things in the heavens and on earth, and God is free of all wants, worthy of all praise.

there you are! you are called upon to spend in the way of God. some of you are mean; yet whoever is mean is mean only to his own soul. God is the rich and you are the poor. if you turn away, he will replace you with another nation, and they will not be like you.

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#112 Edited by korvus (10998 posts) -

@alim298: Sounds a lot more God-like than someone who will reward only the ones who please him directly. If I ever have a child I hope I'll never be the kind of father that will only reward my son for complete obedience and I would never ask to be worshiped (wth is that even about as a father?) I would certainly not condemn my children to death because I was disappointed in them ( I'm thinking of the Flood) or punish them for the rest of their lives (thinking of hell for eternity).

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#113 Posted by foxhound_fox (96999 posts) -

One of the main messages of the Qur'an for Muslims:

Kill non-believers.

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#114 Edited by indzman (27735 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

One of the main messages of the Qur'an for Muslims:

Kill non-believers.

Don't think general muslim go on killing innocent people in name of religion , its those fvcking terrorists as Taliban , ISI , Al Queda , Boko Haram who incite general mass and commit genocide in name of islam. I don't hate muslims but oh boy i really fvcking hate those terrorists , hope if allah really exists , punishes those very very badly.

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#115 Edited by alim298 (2747 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

One of the main messages of the Qur'an for Muslims:

Kill non-believers.

We've had this discussion before. Nowhere in Quran does God say kill non-believers. These two sentences are not alike:

"Kill the non-believers who undermine their treaty with you."

"Kill the non-believers."

For God's sake what other religion made treaty with it's most dangerous enemy? Yet God was merciful to those non-believers. He made a treaty with them. The same people who tortured his servants for years and sent them into exile.

Also just because God gave that order a thousand years ago does not mean you should follow it even to this day.

This is derailing this thread. If you have anything more to say you can always PM me.

EDIT: Thanks @indzman for not generalizing :-)

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#116 Posted by indzman (27735 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@foxhound_fox said:

One of the main messages of the Qur'an for Muslims:

Kill non-believers.


EDIT: Thanks @indzman for not generalizing :-)

< 3

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#117 Posted by foxhound_fox (96999 posts) -

@alim298 said:

Also just because God gave that order a thousand years ago does not mean you should follow it even to this day.

Then how is the Qur'an the perfect Word of God? If it's perfect and unchanged, then we should all follow it word for word, even to this day. It is the perfect word of an omnipotent being. Or are you suggesting God is neither perfect nor omnipotent?

The logical hurdles you must do on a daily basis must get tiring.

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#118 Posted by VaguelyTagged (10701 posts) -

@alim298 said:

Also just because God gave that order a thousand years ago does not mean you should follow it even to this day.

and why in the hell didn't he send another prophet conveying his new word?

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#119 Posted by Prawephet (385 posts) -

@doozie78: Say what? We are not a part of something greater. We live in a universe of infinite possibilities. That doesn't mean we play any part in it or have any greater role. We live, we die. Time marches forward. There is no meaning or greater purpose to our existence.

As is clearly obvious by my post, I do not believe in a god in the sense of a conscious all powerful being. I think that people who believe in god(particularly those that believe the earth is only 5000 years old) are actually mentally handicapped. You can't even reason with these people because they just say "god put that there to test our faith".

Also, I believe, without a doubt in my mind, that there is other intelligent life in this universe. For religious god fearing folk to believe that alien life doesn't exist is quite arrogant, IMO.

There will be a point in the future where god is finally disproven and the world will be better off for it. Less religion means less wars, less cold blooded killing and less hate.

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#120 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@bforrester420 said:

I work with a guy that's an old school mainframe programmer. This dude, Jon Wessler, literally wrote wrote an industry manual on COBOL.

http://www.amazon.com/Cobol-Unleashed-Jon-Wessler/dp/0672312549

How much sense does this make: to create a new file you have to open a file that doesn't even exist yet? Then there's the whole INPUT/OUTPUT mode thing.

Damn...don't get me started. I could go on all day.

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#121 Edited by BSC14 (4187 posts) -

Yes, I'm a Christian.

The idea that all this is random is a bit crazy imo.

I also believe that the human race struggles with accepting anything that can't be proven or is out of the norm of what we see from day to day. That if it's not part of our day to day that it just can't be...it's terribly narrow minded imo.

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#122 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

The idea that all this is random is a bit crazy imo.

I don't think you know what random means. And besides, random does not exclude complex arrangements. If it did, it wouldn't be random.

Also, I find it humorous that people who have no idea what they're talking about feel they have a valid opinion to express. I'm not targeting you specifically, BSC14, but just in general.

For instance; all those who claim evolution is a lie but don't understand the very basic concepts of genetics, not to mention the more complicated aspects.

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#123 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@Nuck81 said:

I believes Humans have a soul, so I believe in God.

Not sure on the specifics though

The Bible never claims humans HAVE a soul. It says we ARE a soul, so long as we're alive. Soul=Nephesh. Nephesh = breathing. Why else would a physicalresurrection be necessary?

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#124 Edited by BSC14 (4187 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

@BSC14 said:

The idea that all this is random is a bit crazy imo.

I don't think you know what random means. And besides, random does not exclude complex arrangements. If it did, it wouldn't be random.

Also, I find it humorous that people who have no idea what they're talking about feel they have a valid opinion to express. I'm not targeting you specifically, BSC14, but just in general.

For instance; all those who claim evolution is a lie but don't understand the very basic concepts of genetics, not to mention the more complicated aspects.

I know what random means lol. I think your point is just that it's not random...I get what you're saying. Still to me it's more likely that all of this were part of a design.

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#125 Edited by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

I know what random means lol. I think your point is just that it's not random...I get what you're saying. Still to me it's more likely that all of this were part of a design.

It's a pretty piss-poor design, then. The design of the human body, for instance, is far from efficient.

Genetic code is such a mess, it's amazing it even works at all (often times it doesn't). The trail-and-error of evolution is readily apparent in genetics.

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#126 Edited by bforrester420 (3480 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

@bforrester420 said:

I work with a guy that's an old school mainframe programmer. This dude, Jon Wessler, literally wrote wrote an industry manual on COBOL.

http://www.amazon.com/Cobol-Unleashed-Jon-Wessler/dp/0672312549

How much sense does this make: to create a new file you have to open a file that doesn't even exist yet? Then there's the whole INPUT/OUTPUT mode thing.

Damn...don't get me started. I could go on all day.

That and there's nothing worse than updating someone else's code only to find a 7000+ character length copybook.

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#127 Posted by BSC14 (4187 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

@BSC14 said:

I know what random means lol. I think your point is just that it's not random...I get what you're saying. Still to me it's more likely that all of this were part of a design.

It's a pretty piss-poor design, then. The design of the human body, for instance, is far from efficient.

Genetic code is such a mess, it's amazing it even works at all (often times it doesn't). The trail-and-error of evolution is readily apparent in genetics.

Interesting, I think the human body is absolutely amazing. It has it's issues but as far as why.....well that could lead to a discussion I don't have time for at work.

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#128 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@bforrester420 said:

That and there's nothing worse than updating someone else's code only to find a 7000+ character length copybook.

I did a lot of COBOL right before Y2K. I could write you a book, let me tell you...

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#129 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

Interesting, I think the human body is absolutely amazing. It has it's issues but as far as why.....well that could lead to a discussion I don't have time for at work.

It is amazing, but it's still an absolute mish-mash of a contraption. If one were to start designing our current form from the get-go, there's a million things that could have been done so much better.

Once you get into the reality of it, it's obvious that we're just a compilation of past genetic experiments that just happened to work well enough. Nothing about the human body is best-in-class design.

Except boobs. Boobs is the exception.

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#130 Posted by BSC14 (4187 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

@BSC14 said:

Interesting, I think the human body is absolutely amazing. It has it's issues but as far as why.....well that could lead to a discussion I don't have time for at work.

It is amazing, but it's still an absolute mish-mash of a contraption. If one were to start designing our current form from the get-go, there's a million things that could have been done so much better.

Once you get into the reality of it, it's obvious that we're just a compilation of past genetic experiments that just happened to work well enough. Nothing about the human body is best-in-class design.

Except boobs. Boobs is the exception.

Well I'm a Christian who does not completely reject evolution. To me it's probably a way of creation....a process I guess.

One thing I'm confident in is Jesus though.....in general I believe in the Bible but I also believe there is a whole lot more to it than what most of my typical Christian brothers believe. This is why I say that I don't support narrow-mindedness on either side of the fence. There is just WAY too much about life and the universes that human race does not know.

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#131 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

There is just WAY too much about life and the universes that human race does not know.

Ignorance is never a good excuse for the divine.

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#132 Posted by BSC14 (4187 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

@BSC14 said:

There is just WAY too much about life and the universes that human race does not know.

Ignorance is never a good excuse for the divine.

That's not at all what I'm saying. I have my own reasons for what I believe. My point was more that people on both sides are pretty narrow-minded....

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#133 Edited by bforrester420 (3480 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

@bforrester420 said:

That and there's nothing worse than updating someone else's code only to find a 7000+ character length copybook.

I did a lot of COBOL right before Y2K. I could write you a book, let me tell you...

That was how I got my start, actually. I was between my sophomore and junior year in college and got a paid internship to work on Y2K code over the summer. Summer ended and I was offered a full time position. I've been with the company ever since.

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#134 Edited by alim298 (2747 posts) -

@VaguelyTagged: @foxhound_fox: Let me answer your question both by a bit of Islamic philosophy and Islamic fiqh.

First figh: consider this situation: There are laws in Islam regarding horses. There are no laws regarding cars. Cars are a new phenomena. For instance one can pray when riding a horse and it doesn't matter whether or not he is facing Mecca. It is how our prophet did it and how his followers did it. But surely there were no cars at that age right? So there's a question. Can we apply the same law to cars also? The answer is yes. Someone might say "But wait! That's not our prophet's sunnah!!!" Doesn't matter. The SOUL of that law concerning horses is what we use and understanding the soul of that law we apply the same thing to cars. In other words people CAN ride their cars and pray not facing Mecca.

So concerning the matter at hand: there were some people (and I don't call them non-believers. It has nothing to do with believing. It's just a word to distinguish them from Arabs Jews etc.) who harassed Muslims simply because they said they believe in one God and not idols. They tortured them for years. They cut their food supply and when our prophet saw no way out but to leave Mecca they tried to assassinate him. When in Medina Muslims signed treaties with those said people to establish peace. They undermined said treaty and so the battle of Mecca occurred. When Muslims conquered Mecca one said: "It's payback time." But our prophet said: "No go in the name of peace and God's mercy." They did not mass murder said people. Instead YET ANOTHER TREATY was made between them. And the story of that treaty are the verses Islam haters constantly refer to to make Islam look bad.

The verses you are referring to are describing a historical occurrence and are ordering Muslims what to do in THAT SITUATION. Would there be no treaty there would be no "Kill the non-believers who undermine their treaty with you." Take this to be your "horse." Now there's the soul of this whole occurrence:

- Make peace

Be it through treaties, forgiving those who have wronged you, having patience etc.

So there's no need for another prophet to come and tell me anything. I already know what these verses mean.

Now let's apply this law to the cars.

My every day life and how I should treat Marxists atheists Westerns Easterns you name it:

- With peace

Peace does not mean that I should grab a gun and put a hole in every one of them. That's a really really really failed logic.

Now Islamic philosophy: take this verse from Quran.

"if we supersede any verse or cause it to be forgotten, we bring a better one or one similar. do you not know that God has power over all things!"

So a thousand years have passed and not a single word in Quran has changed (proven by Quran code) so what does God mean by "superseding verses" or "causing verses to be forgotten?"

It means a 21 century man like myself has a different interpretation of the same verses that were rehearsed a thousand years ago.

What did these verses mean to a Muslim from a thousand years ago? The meanings were simple. "If this do that if that do this." But now a thousand years have passed and I know I never took part in that whole story. I might not even "know" which battle God is talking about in these verses. It's like this whole story does not "exist" to me. A Muslim living a thousand years ago "remembered" every detail of it that would most certainly give him a better insight into those verses but now those details are "forgotten." Thus a new meaning a better meaning is revealed. The soul of this story is revealed. A simple "treaty story" is superseded it's details forgotten and a greater better meaning has replaced it and that is: peace.

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#135 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

That's not at all what I'm saying. I have my own reasons for what I believe. My point was more that people on both sides are pretty narrow-minded....

I've delved deeply into religious text, even learning Hebrew and Greek in order to read the original Biblical scripts (and oh boy are the translations flawed). I've delved into genetics, geology, astrophysics and quantum physics looking for answers.

I haven't come by my position due to some internal bias; I've really, really searched and researched with an open mind.

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#136 Edited by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@bforrester420 said:

That was how I got my start, actually. I was between my sophomore and junior year in college and got a paid internship to work on Y2K code over the summer. Summer ended and I was offered a full time position. I've been with the company ever since.

Yeah, COBOL/Y2K was my entrance into the industry, but I got the hell away from it as quickly as I could. :-)

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#137 Posted by udUbdaWgz1 (633 posts) -

lol at "way too much."

you either know god or you don't. simplicity personified.

then, either, the one god or some fruitcake, multipurposed, good luck charm.

all who have a personal relationship with god give thanks to Him.

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#138 Edited by alim298 (2747 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

I've delved deeply into religious text, even learning Hebrew and Greek in order to read the original Biblical scripts (and oh boy are the translations flawed). I've delved into genetics, geology, astrophysics and quantum physics looking for answers.

I haven't come by my position due to some internal bias; I've really, really searched and researched with an open mind.

Might I say that sounded BADASS :D

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#139 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@alim298 said:

Might I say that sounded BADASS :D

/me lights cigar, tips fedora.

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#140 Posted by ninjastar (9589 posts) -

Nope

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#141 Posted by thehig1 (6420 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@br0kenrabbit said:

I've delved deeply into religious text, even learning Hebrew and Greek in order to read the original Biblical scripts (and oh boy are the translations flawed). I've delved into genetics, geology, astrophysics and quantum physics looking for answers.

I haven't come by my position due to some internal bias; I've really, really searched and researched with an open mind.

Might I say that sounded BADASS :D

Too right it did :) it sounds like it should be read out aloud by Morgan Freeman in the opening of an Epic SciFi film about the meaning of the universe.

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#142 Posted by Nuck81 (6981 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

@Nuck81 said:

I believes Humans have a soul, so I believe in God.

Not sure on the specifics though

The Bible never claims humans HAVE a soul. It says we ARE a soul, so long as we're alive. Soul=Nephesh. Nephesh = breathing. Why else would a physicalresurrection be necessary?

Jesus Resurrection was purely spiritual

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#143 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@Nuck81 said:

Jesus Resurrection was purely spiritual

Nope, hence why his body wasn't found. "He is not here, he has risen."

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#144 Posted by Nuck81 (6981 posts) -

@br0kenrabbit said:

@Nuck81 said:

Jesus Resurrection was purely spiritual

Nope, hence why his body wasn't found. "He is not here, he has risen."

They never found Jimmy Hoffa, was his body physically resurrected?

No body doesn't equal to a physical Resurrection.


Maybe you should brush up on that greek and hebrew you supposedly learned and do some more studying

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#145 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (9471 posts) -

@Nuck81 said:

@br0kenrabbit said:

@Nuck81 said:

Jesus Resurrection was purely spiritual

Nope, hence why his body wasn't found. "He is not here, he has risen."

They never found Jimmy Hoffa, was his body physically resurrected?

No body doesn't equal to a physical Resurrection.

Maybe you should brush up on that greek and hebrew you supposedly learned and do some more studying

What? The empty tome is used time and time again by Christians as proof of the resurrection. What offshoot of Christianity doesn't believe the resurrection was in anyway physical?

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#146 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15217 posts) -

@Nuck81 said:

They never found Jimmy Hoffa, was his body physically resurrected?

No body doesn't equal to a physical Resurrection.

Maybe you should brush up on that greek and hebrew you supposedly learned and do some more studying

Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don't be faithless any longer. Believe!" - John 20:27

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#147 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan said:

@Nuck81 said:

@br0kenrabbit said:

@Nuck81 said:

Jesus Resurrection was purely spiritual

Nope, hence why his body wasn't found. "He is not here, he has risen."

They never found Jimmy Hoffa, was his body physically resurrected?

No body doesn't equal to a physical Resurrection.

Maybe you should brush up on that greek and hebrew you supposedly learned and do some more studying

What? The empty tome is used time and time again by Christians as proof of the resurrection. What offshoot of Christianity doesn't believe the resurrection was in anyway physical?

Probably unitarians but they are just barely christian really

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#148 Edited by foxhound_fox (96999 posts) -

@Nuck81 said:

@br0kenrabbit said:

@Nuck81 said:

Jesus Resurrection was purely spiritual

Nope, hence why his body wasn't found. "He is not here, he has risen."

They never found Jimmy Hoffa, was his body physically resurrected?

No body doesn't equal to a physical Resurrection.

Maybe you should brush up on that greek and hebrew you supposedly learned and do some more studying

The lack of a body could also prove he faked his death to escape to India (there is actually a group of Christians in India that believe this).

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#149 Edited by indzman (27735 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

@Nuck81 said:

@br0kenrabbit said:

@Nuck81 said:

Jesus Resurrection was purely spiritual

Nope, hence why his body wasn't found. "He is not here, he has risen."

They never found Jimmy Hoffa, was his body physically resurrected?

No body doesn't equal to a physical Resurrection.

Maybe you should brush up on that greek and hebrew you supposedly learned and do some more studying

The lack of a body could also prove he faked his death to escape to India (there is actually a group of Christians in India that believe this).

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#150 Posted by tocool340 (21186 posts) -

Well, besides the lack of proof, I have no particular reason to believe there is a God. And even if I chose to believe, I think a quote from Mass Effect 2 explains best what God would mean to me, which would be "A god — a real god — is a verb. Not some old man with magic powers. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does." That means God could be just about anything. The moon, mother nature, the principles behind cause and effect, etc. I would choose to believe the sun would be the closest thing to God though given how much life on Earth depends on it to survive and it does this simply by existing...