Do we still need religion?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Lucky for me I don't use the KJV....br0kenrabbit

I haven't seen a translation yet that adheres to the meaning of the original text. They really like translating word-for-word without regard to meaning.

For instance, if you translated "raining cats and dogs" to X language as "cats and dogs were falling from the sky", you've lost the whole meaning.

A good translation knows idiomatic expressions.LJS9502_basic

And a good translation I have yet to see.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]A good translation knows idiomatic expressions.br0kenrabbit

And a good translation I have yet to see.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]A good translation knows idiomatic expressions.br0kenrabbit

And a good translation I have yet to see.

because there are no contemporary accounts for jesus.  Only the middle east and followers of the religion seemed to care about his supposed miracles.  The rest of the world never batted an eyelash

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Lucky for me I don't use the KJV....br0kenrabbit

I haven't seen a translation yet that adheres to the meaning of the original text. They really like translating word-for-word without regard to meaning.

For instance, if you translated "raining cats and dogs" to X language as "cats and dogs were falling from the sky", you've lost the whole meaning.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]A good translation knows idiomatic expressions.LJS9502_basic

And a good translation I have yet to see.

We still have copies of the Torah in Hebrew. Ancient copies, even. Then there's the Greek manuscripts and so on.

Can you tell me what humans are needed for?LJS9502_basic

some people do .... like some few clueless atheist in gamespot.....

 

and some do not .... like al qaeda.... and most people in pakistan

 

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hippiesanta

Biggest example off the top of my head is the KJV using 'Red Sea' over and over. In reality it was the 'Sea of Reeds'.KC_Hokie

There's that. Also, the whole 'lake of fire' bit. This was a reference to Gehenna (translated into 'Hell' in most translations) that was an actual valley outside of Rome where trash was burnt (some sources say unwanted/dead/sacrificed children were burned here but I'm not convinced). The implied message being if that particular fate befell you, you'd be disposed of as being unworthy as trash is.

It's not a reference to being burned alive forever in hell.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

And a good translation I have yet to see.

br0kenrabbit

We still have copies of the Torah in Hebrew. Ancient copies, even. Then there's the Greek manuscripts and so on.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Can you tell me what humans are needed for?-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Can you tell me what humans are needed for?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You have the original to compare it to? LJS9502_basic

We still have copies of the Torah in Hebrew. Ancient copies, even. Then there's the Greek manuscripts and so on.

Right. And certainly understanding the language not necessarily speaking or reading it but having some insight into the early language along with culture is important. I don't think one should get hung up on tiny little translation differences as long as the message of the Scripture is relatively intact. The differences aren't really that huge though that I can think of off the top of my head. Not to the main message anyway. Certainly the words I read between versions don't make it irreconcilable.LJS9502_basic

The little differences are important because people get hung up on them. Like the whole "Turn the other cheek" bit isn't a passage about passivity, but about demanding equal treatment.

Then there's the whole 'hell' thing...

And people taking pride in a religion that should humiliate and humble them...

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] What is the context of the question? If you are asking this from the perspective of the universe as a whole - there is really nothing humans are needed for. But that's an odd perspective to take simply because no person can rightfully take that perspective for themselves, so why would that be a meaningful take on the question? But from the perspective of a human I can think of an almost infinite list of needs for the human race, because as a fellow human there is an infinite amount of things that need peers to take care of. I need other humans to fulfill my sexual impulses. I need other humans to quench my urge for other forms of friendly social interaction. I rely on the human race as a whole to make food, energy and shelter readily available, as well as materials such as movies and novels and music and video games that people can enjoy in leisure.

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Bolded is it exactly.  You dismissed religion as not needed.  Okay...but then in all reality in the grand scheme of things...neither are humans.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

We still have copies of the Torah in Hebrew. Ancient copies, even. Then there's the Greek manuscripts and so on.

KC_Hokie

IYO. Some humans do need religion. LJS9502_basic

Only because they have been conditioned so...by religion.

It's the whole self-fulfilling prophecy debacle.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] IYO. Some humans do need religion. br0kenrabbit

Only because they have been conditioned so...by religion.

It's the whole self-fulfilling prophecy debacle.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Right. And certainly understanding the language not necessarily speaking or reading it but having some insight into the early language along with culture is important. I don't think one should get hung up on tiny little translation differences as long as the message of the Scripture is relatively intact. The differences aren't really that huge though that I can think of off the top of my head. Not to the main message anyway. Certainly the words I read between versions don't make it irreconcilable.LJS9502_basic

Improper translation caused this:

To become this:

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] IYO. Some humans do need religion. LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] IYO. Some humans do need religion. LJS9502_basic

Only because they have been conditioned so...by religion.

It's the whole self-fulfilling prophecy debacle.

Sure it does. The first time man looked up and wondered what the stars were, he made some $hit up because the rest of the tribe looked to him for all the answers. And from there, it became "you need me to tell you about things you don't understand".

Science fills that role now, but some people want to hang onto iron-age myth and legends because "I've been told my whole life if I don't beleive then I'll burn in hell for eternity, and I don't want to burn in hell."

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Moses parting the 'Sea of Reeds' instead of 'Red Sea' is a huge difference. The Red Sea is 100 miles across at some points while the Reed Sea is just marshland.

KC_Hokie

Improper translation caused this:

To become this:

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

Only because they have been conditioned so...by religion.

It's the whole self-fulfilling prophecy debacle.

 

br0kenrabbit

Sure it does. The first time man looked up and wondered what the stars were, he made some $hit up because the rest of the tribe looked to him for all the answers. And from there, it became "you need me to tell you about things you don't understand".

Science fills that role now, but some people want to hang onto iron-age myth and legends because "I've been told my whole life if I don't beleive then I'll burn in hell for eternity, and I don't want to burn in hell."

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

Only because they have been conditioned so...by religion.

It's the whole self-fulfilling prophecy debacle.

 

br0kenrabbit

Sure it does. The first time man looked up and wondered what the stars were, he made some $hit up because the rest of the tribe looked to him for all the answers. And from there, it became "you need me to tell you about things you don't understand".

Science fills that role now, but some people want to hang onto iron-age myth and legends because "I've been told my whole life if I don't beleive then I'll burn in hell for eternity, and I don't want to burn in hell."

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] If religion was mad made then that would not make sense.LJS9502_basic

Sure it does. The first time man looked up and wondered what the stars were, he made some $hit up because the rest of the tribe looked to him for all the answers. And from there, it became "you need me to tell you about things you don't understand".

Science fills that role now, but some people want to hang onto iron-age myth and legends because "I've been told my whole life if I don't beleive then I'll burn in hell for eternity, and I don't want to burn in hell."

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I'm not discussing the OT...and I did say the message is important not every little detail. So that's immaterial to me.LJS9502_basic

Improper translation caused this:

To become this:

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Yes, in my opinion, thank you captain obvious. Could you tell me why some humans need religion? -Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]What "message"? Mistranslation turned an event filled with divine intervention into a far less important event.

Improper translation caused this:

 

To become this:

 

KC_Hokie

That doesn't really seem logical to me. He could just as well have said a volcano erupted and rocks got stuck in the sky. You are now delving into assumptions here.LJS9502_basic

Considering all religions attempt to explain the creation of the universe, each with opposing theories (and scientific impossibilities), I think it's a pretty good assumption.

The other half of the equation is "Why do bad people have good lives and good people often live bad ones...surely there's an equalizer."

Bada-Boom: afterlife.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]What "message"? Mistranslation turned an event filled with divine intervention into a far less important event.

Improper translation caused this:

 

To become this:

 

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The message was still that Moses led the people away did it not?  Which is the point of the story....but again...I'm not going to pose as an expert on Jewish religion.

Ninja-Hippo

When they translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin then to English it became Red Sea.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That isn't important. You said humans don't need religion. Doesn't matter why...if only you could be even private obvious.:(LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That doesn't really seem logical to me. He could just as well have said a volcano erupted and rocks got stuck in the sky. You are now delving into assumptions here.br0kenrabbit

Considering all religions attempt to explain the creation of the universe, each with opposing theories (and scientific impossibilities), I think it's a pretty good assumption.

The other half of the equation is "Why do bad people have good lives and good people often live bad ones...surely there's an equalizer."

Bada-Boom: afterlife.

I don't think it's necessarily that cynical. Plenty of people have abandoned the church and formal religion but still believe in God, or even a vague sense of a higher power. For no other reason other than it makes them feel good, they cant imagine life without it. I have a buddy who will tell you 'because there HAS to be' if you ask him about a God or higher power, and that's as far as he goes. He really needs there to be a God to live his life happily.Ninja-Hippo

Whether or not they have left the church isn't important. What is important, is that The Church has still defined for them what God is and what he expects.

If you never expose a child to religion, do you honestly think they'll conjure up the God of Abraham and Moses all on their own?

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The message was still that Moses led the people away did it not?  Which is the point of the story....but again...I'm not going to pose as an expert on Jewish religion.

Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"] It turned a simple exodus of people (which happens every week in human history) into something magnificent involving divine intervention. All because of a tiny mistranslation.

KC_Hokie

When they translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin then to English it became Red Sea.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"] It turned a simple exodus of people (which happens every week in human history) into something magnificent involving divine intervention. All because of a tiny mistranslation.

KC_Hokie

When they translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin then to English it became Red Sea.

More assumptions on your part though.....you are doing why you accuse of others of doing.LJS9502_basic

They're not my assumptions, it's the general consensus among scholars dating back to antiquity.

Do some reading.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] It's not important to elaborate on why some people need religion in a thread titled "Do we still need religion"?

 

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] I don't think it's necessarily that cynical. Plenty of people have abandoned the church and formal religion but still believe in God, or even a vague sense of a higher power. For no other reason other than it makes them feel good, they cant imagine life without it. I have a buddy who will tell you 'because there HAS to be' if you ask him about a God or higher power, and that's as far as he goes. He really needs there to be a God to live his life happily.br0kenrabbit

Whether or not they have left the church isn't important. What is important, is that The Church has still defined for them what God is and what he expects.

If you never expose a child to religion, do you honestly think they'll conjure up the God of Abraham and Moses all on their own?

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"] It turned a simple exodus of people (which happens every week in human history) into something magnificent involving divine intervention. All because of a tiny mistranslation.pie-junior

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That doesn't really seem logical to me. He could just as well have said a volcano erupted and rocks got stuck in the sky. You are now delving into assumptions here.LJS9502_basic

Considering all religions attempt to explain the creation of the universe, each with opposing theories (and scientific impossibilities), I think it's a pretty good assumption.

The other half of the equation is "Why do bad people have good lives and good people often live bad ones...surely there's an equalizer."

Bada-Boom: afterlife.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]More assumptions on your part though.....you are doing why you accuse of others of doing.br0kenrabbit

They're not my assumptions, it's the general consensus among scholars dating back to antiquity.

Do some reading.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] What was the mistranslation? I've never heard this before. Do Jews accept that the parting of the red sea straight up didn't happen?pie-junior

When they translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin then to English it became Red Sea.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]More assumptions on your part though.....you are doing why you accuse of others of doing.LJS9502_basic

They're not my assumptions, it's the general consensus among scholars dating back to antiquity.

Do some reading.