Disney should have let The Last Jedi play out in Episode IX (Spoilers)

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Ezekiel43

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#1  Edited By Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 2129 Posts

The more I think about The Rise of Skywalker, the more it bothers me. I liked the message of The Last Jedi, that Sith and Jedi, it's all one, and we should learn to let go of the past. It respected the original trilogy more than bringing back Palpatine and undoing the importance of what Luke and his father did. I liked that Kylo Ren unshackled himself from his master. Episode IX really should have just had Kylo Ren in charge, instead of once again going back to the pawn of the evil master idea. I really thought he had finally become his own man after TLJ and that we might see a more confident, clear-headed ruler in Episode IX. Destroying the helmet that made him feel more like Vader was a part of that. I'm so confused that Luke searched for Palpatine while exiling himself, or searched for Palpatine between training the new Jedi and exiling himself. This dumb retcon just so Kylo Ren could have a master again.

I really didn't want Rey to be related to anyone and was so relieved when The Last Jedi said that she was no one, came from nothing. My biggest fear for Episode IX was that JJ Abrams would undo that, and he fucking did. I hoped they'd explain her power some other way. Why another offspring? It's so predictable, so dumb, like every hero in the galaxy has to be related. Rey's whole arc was about finding out where she belongs and who she is. I did like the idea presented in Rise of Skywalker that she can be whoever she wants to be, but we could have gotten there just fine by continuing from where TLJ ended.

I'm pretty sure if a moon crashed into Kef Bir, which is itself a moon, that moon would be freaking gone. Death Star II has a diameter of 160 km. That's enough to destroy Earth's atmosphere. It's sixteen times the size of the meteor that ended the dinosaurs. Even if just half or a third the space station landed on Kef Bir, it would be absolutely catastrophic. And how the hell can so much of it be seen from within the moon's atmosphere? It's too massive. We saw the whole exterior of the space station get obliterated in Return of the Jedi. I think I'm pretty open minded with Star Wars, but they stretched my suspension of disbelief beyond belief.

Disney pussed out in the presence of all the backlash, and in the end it broke the trilogy even more than if they had just followed the path Rian Johnson set.

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jaydan

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#2 jaydan
Member since 2015 • 2828 Posts

Why is so much thought being put into trash cinema? It's no secret by this time the Star Wars franchise is FUBAR'd.

What's striking to me is an avid film fan such as yourself giving this movie so much attention.

I just hope you are balancing it out by watching good 2019 films as well. Have you seen The Lighthouse or Uncut Gems, yet?

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Ezekiel43

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#3 Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 2129 Posts

@jaydan said:

Why is so much thought being put into trash cinema? It's no secret by this time the Star Wars franchise is FUBAR'd.

What's striking to me is an avid film fan such as yourself giving this movie so much attention.

I just hope you are balancing it out by watching good 2019 films as well. Have you seen The Lighthouse or Uncut Gems, yet?

"The Lighthouse"

Yes. Yesterday, coincidentally.

"Uncut Gems"

No.

I barely watch any new movies.

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Ghosts4ever

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#4 Ghosts4ever  Online
Member since 2015 • 11462 Posts

Although original trilogy were only good but i think in general star wars is lame franchise and that also include original trilogy too. I just never seen the appeal but disney star wars are just so bad that even make prequel good.

want good Sci fi lore? watch Original Matrix (not its shitty sequels).

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uninspiredcup

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#5 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 37052 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:

Although original trilogy were only good but i think in general star wars is lame franchise and that also include original trilogy too. I just never seen the appeal but disney star wars are just so bad that even make prequel good.

want good Sci fi lore? watch Original Matrix (not its shitty sequels).

But Dark City is better.

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Ezekiel43

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#6 Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 2129 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:

Although original trilogy were only good but i think in general star wars is lame franchise and that also include original trilogy too. I just never seen the appeal but disney star wars are just so bad that even make prequel good.

want good Sci fi lore? watch Original Matrix (not its shitty sequels).

Star Wars ain't sci-fi, it's fantasy.

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Ovirew

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#7 Ovirew
Member since 2008 • 9308 Posts

I liked the original SW films when I was a kid and I saw them in the mid 90's, this was shortly before the movies were modified and put into theaters again. I still sort of enjoyed them in the theaters, but I remember even then being put-off by the new scene with Han Solo and Jabba the Hut in A New Hope.

It's clear that most of my interest in Star Wars was tied to those first few movies. And more so, it was tied to a particular point of my childhood. The thing I liked most about Star Wars overall? These toys:

This was the first one I got, a Darth Vader set that opened up to reveal the battle between Luke and Vader, and Han Solo frozen in carbonite. It would ironically be my favorite set of the bunch.

I always enjoyed play set toys with figures inside and interactive set pieces. And in fact, I might have actually gotten this set before I even saw the movies.

One of the movies was on TV when I was at my grandmother's house or something, and I sat and watched it and enjoyed it. My dad even got into the movies with me.

I was excited for the second trilogy leading up to its release, (I liked the fast food promotion going on for it at Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and KFC, was different) but Phantom Menace felt so different from the original movies I kind of lost interest sometime after watching it.

So by like 2000, I had pretty much moved on. I didn't obsess over this fandom like many people did. And the timing worked out because I was in middle-school then, and Star Wars wasn't 'cool' anyway. Not that I particularly cared that much about what others thought, but it helps when other people dislike something and you don't have much attachment to it.

I saw the rest of the second trilogy eventually. More recently saw TFA and Rogue One. I will probably never watch any of the other movies or anything unless I am dating someone who really likes Star Wars and wants to watch them.

It's cool that some people can still watch the newer movies and enjoy them. But it's an issue when movies come out and really don't know what their plot or message is. Maybe the real issue was trying to connect this to the main movies at all?

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mrbojangles25

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#8  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 45400 Posts

@jaydan said:

Why is so much thought being put into trash cinema? It's no secret by this time the Star Wars franchise is FUBAR'd.

What's striking to me is an avid film fan such as yourself giving this movie so much attention.

I just hope you are balancing it out by watching good 2019 films as well. Have you seen The Lighthouse or Uncut Gems, yet?

Likely because it's harmless. Obsessing over something like Star Wars allows us to debate seriously over a non-serious subject.

At least it's better than taking, I don't know, politics or civil rights seriously. I mean c'mon there are a lot more terrible things we could be obstinate about. There are worse things to hurt someone's feelings about. I know people who have relatives that won't talk to them b/c of their political ideals; you can't say that about Star Wars.

Let us have our Star Wars debates. It might be trash cinema, but the Star Wars universe/franchise/IP is, quite literally, modern American mythology. I think in 100+ years Jesus might be studied academically, but Star Wars will still be common knowledge :D

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jaydan

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#9  Edited By jaydan
Member since 2015 • 2828 Posts

@ezekiel43 said:
@jaydan said:

Why is so much thought being put into trash cinema? It's no secret by this time the Star Wars franchise is FUBAR'd.

What's striking to me is an avid film fan such as yourself giving this movie so much attention.

I just hope you are balancing it out by watching good 2019 films as well. Have you seen The Lighthouse or Uncut Gems, yet?

"The Lighthouse"

Yes. Yesterday, coincidentally.

"Uncut Gems"

No.

I barely watch any new movies.

What did you think of The Lighthouse?

It was quite a trip into madness - one to digest, but I loved it. One of the final shots where he looks into the light was haunting imagery. Its Blu-Ray release is January 7th and I look forward to adding it to my collection and further examining all the nuances and craft.

Uncut Gems I have to bring up because it's not every day we get Adam Sandler acting as phenomenally as he does in this one. I would argue it's by far his greatest role, outdoing Punch-Drunk Love. Out of curiosity I'd love to hear your take on it.

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jaydan

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#10  Edited By jaydan
Member since 2015 • 2828 Posts

@mrbojangles25: Thank you for your sentiment, but I'm unsure why you are getting up in arms and trying to tell me how I should choose to make a post. I don't take these things as seriously but I love food-for-thought.

What you do not understand is I'm fully aware of @ezekiel43's taste in cinema and he's a fellow film-lover as well. My response to him comes with my pre-awareness of his liking's in cinema, and you don't have that context.

What's amusing me about your post is I'm not even being political yet you're advising me to not be political while being political in your same post. lol

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mrbojangles25

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#11  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 45400 Posts

@jaydan: I don't think I was "up in arms" over anything, you're probably just being a bit sensitive maybe?

As for your comment, it was made on a public forum, so anyone can interject. Don't make this out like it's some dialogue between two people and everyone else isn't allowed to comment as well.

Finally, I wasn't telling you how to post. I was simply telling you a possible reason why people, film-lovers or not, might like to waste time debating the merits of Star Wars, something that is considered "trash cinema" by some.

I thought my comment was fairly neutral and it merely offered a thought on the subject, it did not really declare anything or tell you you are wrong. Not sure why you felt your above post was necessary tbh, why you seem to be on the defensive.

*shrug*

*I also didn't talk about politics, btw, in fact I said the opposite (i.e. it's better to debate Star Wars than politics). Maybe reread what I wrote.

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jaydan

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#12  Edited By jaydan
Member since 2015 • 2828 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

*false accusations and trying to elaborate tone*

I'm sorry but I am literally running all over the place these days and today being no exception. I worked crazy long all day and managing among peers and getting tons of business, and driving across town and back. I got too much going on in my life to take anything on Gamespot seriously or be "sensitive" about. You're still being sensitive, and that's fine, but feelings I do not share or care about.

I am more than happy to give a thorough response and do the Gamespot-way between time and I can process and type quick enough it does not take me an hour or two just to come up with a few paragraphs.

Sorry to let down those expectations, carry on.

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#13 AJStyles
Member since 2018 • 1328 Posts

TROS was much better than TLJ.

The Last Jedi sucks and is the worst film out of all of the movies including Solo and the Christmas specials.

TROS almost feels like a direct sequel to TFA and it almost erases everything that happened in the last jedi.

JJ Abrams did a great job of salvaging the Star Wars train wreck.

TROS is not perfect or flawless, but my complaints are minor.

TLJ is not only the worst Star Wars movie but it’s just a terrible movie in general and made no sense whatsoever.

TLJ completely ignored everything in TFA and TROS ignores almost everything in TLJ(which is a good thing).

Disney messed up the Star Wars trilogy badly and it’s very much damaged. They should have stuck with JJ Abrams for all 3 movies instead of trying a director for each.

And who the hell thought it was a good idea to make a trilogy without writing the full story first?

Disney legit made up the trilogy as they went and it shows. It’s quite obvious Rian Johnson has never even watched a Star Wars movie before he made TLJ.

I left the Theatre happy for TFA, enraged for TLJ and satisfied for TROS.

Overall this trilogy is worse than the prequels which I didn’t think was possible.

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#14 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5806 Posts

@ezekiel43: It was set up in TFA that she was somebody so I'm glad they finally answered and explained who. Rian was lime a child when he made TLJ, he just threw a tantrum and said I'm not going to follow Abrams planned trilogy arc, and for some reason Kathlen Kennedy was ok with that. I don't even hate the last Jedi, but it doesn't feel like the middle of a sequel and it pissed on some characters (Luke) and had some really dumb moments and sub plots.

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Ezekiel43

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#15  Edited By Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 2129 Posts

@vfighter said:

@ezekiel43: I don't even hate the last Jedi, but it doesn't feel like the middle of a sequel and it pissed on some characters (Luke)

No, it didn't. Abrams pissed on Luke and wrote Johnson into a corner with some very lazy setting up of the new trilogy. I wouldn't have even exiled Luke. It's not like him. And if I did make him exile himself, it would have been to train Jedi. Rey would have found him at the end with a school of apprentices.

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Ezekiel43

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#16 Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 2129 Posts

Oh, and making Rey offspring of a Sith is trite at this point.

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Ezekiel43

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#17  Edited By Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 2129 Posts

Wow, I'm impressed by how much of these I agree with. Mainly, yeah, JJ Abrams should have been a professional and used what happened in The Last Jedi to inform The Rise of Skywalker.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GErIPKjwuDg

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#18 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 3386 Posts

I did enjoy RoS, but the script is messy from trying to cram too much stuff in. People keep blaming TLJ for that, but really Palpatine is the problem. Cut him and his associated mcguffin hunt out, and this would have been both a better movie and more cohesive trilogy. There is a good movie in there, but it's buried under a pile of desperate fan-service.

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#19 Solspear
Member since 2015 • 49 Posts

1917 is another good movie too. It's a unique cinematic experience thingie... But the amount of time passing thing will confuse a lot of viewers, even me, cause several hours passes by from afternoon to mid morning and it's only a 2 hour movie