Disney - Gets flak for 'milking' Star Wars, but considerably gets a pass for Marvel?

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#1 Posted by nintendoboy16 (36592 posts) -

Honestly, this has been bugging me. In the geek rants I see and read, Disney gets flak for milking Star Wars, but I rarely, if ever see Marvel getting similar criticisms.

When it comes to movies alone, Star Wars under Disney has produced Force Awakens (2015), Rogue One (2016), Last Jedi (2017), and Solo (2018).

Marvel? This year alone, we've had Black Panther and Avengers: Infinity War, and on the way we are getting Ant-Man and the Wasp. Last year, we've had Spider-Man: Homecoming (with Sony), Thor: Ragnarok, and Guardians 2. The year before that, we got Captain America: Civil War and Doctor Strange.

I could go on, but it'll take forever. So what is it with Star Wars that gets flak for more movies, yet with Marvel, it's fine? Very rarely do I ever see Marvel get flak for it, besides from MAYBE James Cameron, who to be fair, was saying that about the superhero genre itself. Star Wars? Just one movie a year. And sure you can point out other products too, but again, same with Marvel?

Am I missing something?

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#2 Posted by Horgen (121177 posts) -

Brand name maybe?

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#3 Posted by MarcRecon (8176 posts) -

It's kinda hard to compare a 40yr old franchise against a franchise that's barely 10yrs old.

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#4 Edited by DaVillain- (38134 posts) -

As a Star Wars & Marvel fan, there's a difference between the two and I'll talk about Solo first.

Solo: A Star Wars Story failed because there was no real draw to the movie. With Disney/LocusFilms making so many new Star Wars movies, one was bound to be skippable. And marketed as mostly a fun prequel with no actual bearing on the rest of the series, this was the one people saw it as skippable and this isn't the main event Star Wars movie (episode wise) anyways. I knew what I was expecting out of Solo and I give it a 7/10 but I didn't enjoy it that much as Rogue One as far as SW side story movie goes. The fact that it premiered less than 6 months after The Last Jedi, didn't get a trailer until a couple of months ago, and premiered a couple weeks after Avengers: Infinity War and Deadpool 2 didn't help. The main thing everyone is forgetting here is "Who ask for this"? Solo wasn't something fans ask for. It has nothing to do with fatigue, it was just a Star Wars side story about Solo and not a lot of interest just to go see this. If this was episode 9, everyone would go flock for that one, not about Solo.

The main Difference between Star Wars & Marvel is the fact that Marvel Cinematic Universe are well receive for releasing great quality movies with iconic hero/villain characters and the cast/team/writers put a lot of efforts into the movies, they are comic books in movies for it's continuations and it took 10 years from Iron Man to Infinity War and it pays off for making sure the film is great. The only MCU movie I don't see it becoming a hit is Ant-Man & The Wasp this July because Infinity War happened and Ant-Man & The Wasp happens to be a prequel to the events of Infinity War, so don't expect a massive hit and probably gonna do similar to Solo in a way.

Star Wars was never meant to be MCU like, every year were getting SW and SW, we get several years but keep on releasing too many isn't what Star Wars is known for.

Does this answers your question Nintendoboy?

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#5 Edited by deactivated-5b797108c254e (11245 posts) -

In my opinion, so far every SW movie under Disney has ranged between crap and disappointing while the Marvel ones have at least been passable and some quite enjoyable.

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#6 Posted by Jacanuk (18910 posts) -
@nintendoboy16 said:

Honestly, this has been bugging me. In the geek rants I see and read, Disney gets flak for milking Star Wars, but I rarely, if ever see Marvel getting similar criticisms.

When it comes to movies alone, Star Wars under Disney has produced Force Awakens (2015), Rogue One (2016), Last Jedi (2017), and Solo (2018).

Marvel? This year alone, we've had Black Panther and Avengers: Infinity War, and on the way we are getting Ant-Man and the Wasp. Last year, we've had Spider-Man: Homecoming (with Sony), Thor: Ragnarok, and Guardians 2. The year before that, we got Captain America: Civil War and Doctor Strange.

I could go on, but it'll take forever. So what is it with Star Wars that gets flak for more movies, yet with Marvel, it's fine? Very rarely do I ever see Marvel get flak for it, besides from MAYBE James Cameron, who to be fair, was saying that about the superhero genre itself. Star Wars? Just one movie a year. And sure you can point out other products too, but again, same with Marvel?

Am I missing something?

A few things you are missing.

First, let's talk quality, Marvel has released fairly decent quality movies, even the countless Netflix series are not that bad, Jessica Jones and inhumans to be the exception. Disney, on the other hand, has swarmed the market with poorly done movies, who if they had any other name, would have been megaflops. Solo to be the last and the worst, partly because of the cast. Also, the first three Star Wars movies made the franchise and the cast was so good that not one of the newer movies has been able to recast actors that can fit that. Marvel, on the other hand, has used mega-stars and have managed to cast the right people for the roles.

Then there is the universe, Marvel is merely a brand, and has made pretty much stand alone movies, which lives or dies on their own merits and besides the "brand/universe" they are separate

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#7 Posted by deactivated-5c56012aaa167 (2538 posts) -

1.Star Wars sequel trilogy movies have been disappointing so far.(TFA was a rehash of Episode 4 and TLJ was a rahash of episode 5 and 6 but with this difference that it ruined Luke Skywalker character) while MCU movies weren't as bad as these.

2.Star Wars also has these pointless movies that aren't really needed since they are just between episodes 3 and 4.(And fans already had expanded universe for those stories)

3.And MCU didn't turn the main heroes into mary sues.(And also didn't replace them with inferior characters similar to sequel trilogy)

These are the reasons I think.

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#8 Edited by lamprey263 (36209 posts) -

They're over-saturating their own market, I am a bit surprised they haven't felt it more significantly yet.

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#9 Edited by Solaryellow (5171 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

Honestly, this has been bugging me. In the geek rants I see and read, Disney gets flak for milking Star Wars, but I rarely, if ever see Marvel getting similar criticisms.

When it comes to movies alone, Star Wars under Disney has produced Force Awakens (2015), Rogue One (2016), Last Jedi (2017), and Solo (2018).

Marvel? This year alone, we've had Black Panther and Avengers: Infinity War, and on the way we are getting Ant-Man and the Wasp. Last year, we've had Spider-Man: Homecoming (with Sony), Thor: Ragnarok, and Guardians 2. The year before that, we got Captain America: Civil War and Doctor Strange.

I could go on, but it'll take forever. So what is it with Star Wars that gets flak for more movies, yet with Marvel, it's fine? Very rarely do I ever see Marvel get flak for it, besides from MAYBE James Cameron, who to be fair, was saying that about the superhero genre itself. Star Wars? Just one movie a year. And sure you can point out other products too, but again, same with Marvel?

Am I missing something?

Your opinion is one in which I can find agreement. Marvel has pumped them out ASAP. Think of how many Marvel films were made in the last X amount of years since Iron Man started the ball rolling. There has to be about twenty or so. The sheer amount of quantity takes away my interest.

If Disney is getting called out for such milking, Marvel needs to be taken behind the woodshed.

The "abuse" of franchises is happening in all sorts of entertainment which is unfortunate.

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#10 Posted by SOedipus (11580 posts) -

The new Star Wars movies are shit, except for Rogue One. The Marvel movies that are being pumped out are not. That's why.

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#11 Posted by nintendoboy16 (36592 posts) -
@MarcRecon said:

It's kinda hard to compare a 40yr old franchise against a franchise that's barely 10yrs old.

A 40 year old franchise that Disney hasn't had in their possession for that long, compared to the brand they bought prior and being the latter franchise rooted from nearly eighty years of comics WITH an intertwined universe (exceptions: see Fox, early Sony Spider-Man and... whatever the hell Big Hero 6 fits under). So no, it isn't.

@dorog1995 said:

1.Star Wars sequel trilogy movies have been disappointing so far.(TFA was a rehash of Episode 4 and TLJ was a rahash of episode 5 and 6 but with this difference that it ruined Luke Skywalker character) while MCU movies weren't as bad as these.

2.Star Wars also has these pointless movies that aren't really needed since they are just between episodes 3 and 4.(And fans already had expanded universe for those stories)

3.And MCU didn't turn the main heroes into mary sues.(And also didn't replace them with inferior characters similar to sequel trilogy)

These are the reasons I think.

1. Uh, pretty sure I saw Marvel fans rip a once favorite character in Infinity War for his actions. Yet, unlike Last Jedi, IW got a pass. Much to the point where Chris Pratt went to defending what happened. Riann Johnson got crap for defending his directing and writing decisions with Last Jedi.

2. I'd hardly call Rogue One pointless as it covered a pretty big event that NEEDED to be covered.

3. You know... Luke Skywalker was a Gary Stu or Marty Stu, right? He was no different than say Harry Potter in that regard. Yet, when it comes to them, no one has a problem? And I'm pretty sure Jessica Jones on the TV side of the MCU was bashed for being a Mary Sue this last season.

@davillain- said:

As a Star Wars & Marvel fan, there's a difference between the two and I'll talk about Solo first.

Solo: A Star Wars Story failed because there was no real draw to the movie. With Disney/LocusFilms making so many new Star Wars movies, one was bound to be skippable. And marketed as mostly a fun prequel with no actual bearing on the rest of the series, this was the one people saw it as skippable and this isn't the main event Star Wars movie (episode wise) anyways. I knew what I was expecting out of Solo and I give it a 7/10 but I didn't enjoy it that much as Rogue One as far as SW side story movie goes. The fact that it premiered less than 6 months after The Last Jedi, didn't get a trailer until a couple of months ago, and premiered a couple weeks after Avengers: Infinity War and Deadpool 2 didn't help. The main thing everyone is forgetting here is "Who ask for this"? Solo wasn't something fans ask for. It has nothing to do with fatigue, it was just a Star Wars side story about Solo and not a lot of interest just to go see this. If this was episode 9, everyone would go flock for that one, not about Solo.

The main Difference between Star Wars & Marvel is the fact that Marvel Cinematic Universe are well receive for releasing great quality movies with iconic hero/villain characters and the cast/team/writers put a lot of efforts into the movies, they are comic books in movies for it's continuations and it took 10 years from Iron Man to Infinity War and it pays off for making sure the film is great. The only MCU movie I don't see it becoming a hit is Ant-Man & The Wasp this July because Infinity War happened and Ant-Man & The Wasp happens to be a prequel to the events of Infinity War, so don't expect a massive hit and probably gonna do similar to Solo in a way.

Star Wars was never meant to be MCU like, every year were getting SW and SW, we get several years but keep on releasing too many isn't what Star Wars is known for.

Does this answers your question Nintendoboy?

Kevin Feige (Marvel) and Kathleen Kennedy (Lucasfilm) have the same freaking bosses at Disney and the MCU have movies that are too intertwined at this point, so it's not THAT different.

"Star Wars was never meant to be MCU like" Again, how is one movie a year a worse offender than two-three movies a year? Hell, wasn't there a time where people complained where there weren't enough Star Wars films? What happened? At this point, Marvel could make a scouters breaking worth of movies and they'd still get praise more than one Star Wars film.

You only answered part of it on why Solo may have failed.

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#12 Edited by jaydan (2491 posts) -

There are are a combination of issues that I see.

What I see is Star Wars fans are far more conservative than Marvel fans. Marvel gets embraced for being more progressive with their films than Star Wars. Marvel gets rewarded for taking greater risks whereas Star Wars gets panned for doing the same thing. The attitudes between the fans are different.

The issue with Star Wars has a lot to do with its executive lead, Kathleen Kennedy. Many fans speculate that Kathleen Kennedy isn't even a core fan of the Star Wars franchise the way Kevin Feige is a huge fan for Marvel. I think there's a big difference between the leader's between both studios. So far the series under Kathleen Kennedy and Disney, Star Wars has taken very unflattering risks that fans swear ruin the traditions of the franchise. Kennedy has disregarded fans numerous times now by messing up core principles of the Star Wars narrative and lore, which is what really started this conflict.

With the release of Solo, many people are left scratching their heads why this film exists in the first place. Audiences are disregarding whether or not Solo is a good movie at all because fans: see Harrison Ford as Solo and no one else, and Solo never needed an origin movie in the first place as Solo brings absolutely nothing new to the table. Solo is believed to be a perfectly shameless cash-grab of a movie and that's why it is suffering.

So to sum it up, Lucasfilm is suffering because there's an ongoing conflict between fans and studio. There's been backlash for quite a while now over past releases yet the executives seemingly ignore the fans and Solo is that wake-up call to Disney by getting poor box office.

Marvel gets away with making so many films, because it did something that Star Wars did not do: it perfected the shared universe. Marvel and Kevin Feige overall treat their fans and the material they work with, with respect. The leads within Marvel are genuine fans of Marvel.

With releases of films like Thor: Ragnarok and Black Panther, audiences were left genuinely excited to see the big installment of Infinity War; with Infinity War, it has successfully left people excited for Avengers 4. The excitement for Marvel movies is legitimate and thanks to really just being something that other movie franchises have never done as well. Star Wars won't be able to compete with the MCU if all it's going to do is piss off the fans.

With the shared universe I'm sure most people have caught onto by now, it's also worth nothing that the MCU is successfully exciting people for the next installments. Star Wars at this point is just trying to copy the MCU by expanding itself into a larger universe than it was originally debuted, and fans stick with the traditions that Disney has not done the best at standing up for.

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#13 Posted by nintendoboy16 (36592 posts) -
@jaydan said:

There are are a combination of issues that I see.

What I see is Star Wars fans are far more conservative than Marvel fans. Marvel gets embraced for being more progressive with their films than Star Wars. Marvel gets rewarded for taking greater risks whereas Star Wars gets panned for doing the same thing. The attitudes between the fans are different.

The issue with Star Wars has a lot to do with its executive lead, Kathleen Kennedy. Many fans speculate that Kathleen Kennedy isn't even a core fan of the Star Wars franchise the way Kevin Feige is a huge fan for Marvel. I think there's a big difference between the leader's between both studios. So far the series under Kathleen Kennedy and Disney, Star Wars has taken very unflattering risks that fans swear ruin the traditions of the franchise. Kennedy has disregarded fans numerous times now by messing up core principles of the Star Wars narrative and lore, which is what really started this conflict.

With the release of Solo, many people are left scratching their heads why this film exists in the first place. Audiences are disregarding whether or not Solo is a good movie at all because fans: see Harrison Ford as Solo and no one else, and Solo never needed an origin movie in the first place as Solo brings absolutely nothing new to the table. Solo is believed to be a perfectly shameless cash-grab of a movie and that's why it is suffering.

So to sum it up, Lucasfilm is suffering because there's an ongoing conflict between fans and studio. There's been backlash for quite a while now over past releases yet the executives seemingly ignore the fans and Solo is that wake-up call to Disney by getting poor box office.

Marvel gets away with making so many films, because it did something that Star Wars did not do: it perfected the shared universe. Marvel and Kevin Feige overall treat their fans and the material they work with, with respect. The leads within Marvel are genuine fans of Marvel.

With releases of films like Thor: Ragnarok and Black Panther, audiences were left genuinely excited to see the big installment of Infinity War; with Infinity War, it has successfully left people excited for Avengers 4. The excitement for Marvel movies is legitimate and thanks to really just being something that other movie franchises have never done as well. Star Wars won't be able to compete with the MCU if all it's going to do is piss off the fans.

With the shared universe I'm sure most people have caught onto by now, it's also worth nothing that the MCU is successfully exciting people for the next installments. Star Wars at this point is just trying to copy the MCU by expanding itself into a larger universe than it was originally debuted, and fans stick with the traditions that Disney has not done the best at standing up for.

Why are you acting like Star Wars broadening it's universe is anything new? It's not. See: Legends/previous Expanded Universe. Even currently cannon content ike the Clone Wars references it sometimes. Hell, it was frequently criticized for convoluting everything up. Hard to perfect on that front with six-seven (if you count the debut Clone Wars film) movies that were already done.

Getting political too? Risky, but okay.

People embraced Marvel for being progressive? Um, not with Jessica Jones. Not with anything involving Joss Whedon (who also made Buffy and Firefly/Serenity). And to some extent, not with Black Panther (which was also "liked" for far different reasons by the same people critical of what I mentioned before, as joked by The Opposition).

Loading Video...

So, like Star Wars, it was no stranger to "anti-SJW" stigma. Which is apparently a reason Marvel cancelled certain comic series according to them.

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#14 Edited by jaydan (2491 posts) -

@nintendoboy16: It ultimately comes down to fans vs. studio. Star Wars fanboys are pissed off elitists over the franchise and it does not help that the executives at Lucasfilm had been pouring salt over the whole situation. Solo is the first true result of this deteriorating fan-studio relationship causing financial hurt.

Compare that to Marvel and you'll see that fans are actually satisfied with the majority of what the franchise sets out to do, and with each film released it successfully excites audiences for the next installment. Marvel is not perfect, but overall their triumphs at this point substantially outweigh their shortcomings and they continually get better.

Marvel fans demand more Marvel movies whereas Star Wars fans lost faith and trying to clench the emergency break. Star Wars fans being conservative has nothing to do with politics, it's a mere incident that fans are more bound for traditions while Marvel set up an entire universe where anything can happen. Marvel fans embrace the craziness of its own universe and its possibilities more than Star Wars can get away with it.

There's really no other reason behind it. Sure you can see the surface and say "well, Marvel pumps out way more movies yet why does Star Wars get panned for releasing fewer?" but that's a very superficial way at seeing the situation when at its core it comes down to the relationship between the studio and fans and the demand that they both have.

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#15 Posted by Baconstrip78 (1396 posts) -

Star Wars made the mistake of not knowing their audience. Neckbeards don’t like women and certainly don’t want to see them holding lightsabers.

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#16 Posted by theone86 (22417 posts) -

I haven't seen Solo yet, but the difference in my eyes seems to be that Marvel first off actually planned to do a multi-year connected film universe and second is bringing characters to the screen that haven't ever been done before and is doing it in creative ways. Star Wars, on the other hand, seems to realize it's running out of good ideas and turns to characters that were popular back in the day in order to get as much mileage as they can out of what's been done already. It doesn't help that their most original films since the originals were complete bombs, but it's not the prequels' originality that made them terrible. If they had been done better then they would've been better-received and Disney wouldn't be afraid to make anything Star Wars-related without a huge, heaping dose of nostalgia. When they start putting out the post-IX films we'll see if they can go beyond milking, but right now they're doing a lot of milking. That's different than putting out a lot of films.

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#17 Posted by deactivated-5c56012aaa167 (2538 posts) -
@nintendoboy16 said:

3. You know... Luke Skywalker was a Gary Stu or Marty Stu, right? He was no different than say Harry Potter in that regard. Yet, when it comes to them, no one has a problem? And I'm pretty sure Jessica Jones on the TV side of the MCU was bashed for being a Mary Sue this last season.

No he wasn't. If he was a Gary stu episode 4 would have been like this:

Loading Video...

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#18 Posted by MrGeezer (59765 posts) -

I'm just gonna chime in here with something that may or may not be relevant, and that's to do with my perception of what the franchises inherently are.

Marvel films sort of feel more like comic books. Or one of those daytime soap operas that has been running for like, 20 years. That kind of stuff is just really about getting to the next plot development. Closure seems to be hard to find since you know they're going to keep pumping out that stuff forever. That kind of thing generally doesn't appeal to me as much, but I know from the start that that's what I'm getting into with the Marvel stuff. So I'm kind of willing to run with it as long as the quality is mostly pretty good (even though I finally am really starting to get sick of these movies). It's like eating a bag of potato chips. They're never really fully satisfying and at the end I feel kind of sick, but sometimes I am just in the mood for chips.

By contrast, I've always viewed Star Wars as more of a SAGA. Like, an actual meal instead of a bag of chips. Even with the prequel trilogy (which has two points against it by both being prequels and being largely crappy), it still felt more to me like an actual meal and less like more potato chips. It might have sucked, but it was still a self-contained saga with a definite end, so it didn't seem disposable to me in quite the same way as the Marvel movies (even though the Marvel movies are actually better). But with Disney deciding to pump out Star Wars movies forever, it almost feels like it's becoming something other than what it was. That it's not building to some end point, but that it's just piling on more story until it stops being financially viable. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's just not what I want out of Star Wars.

And yes, I realize that there was always the expanded universe stuff, as well as the occasional side movie such as the Clone Wars stuff, the Ewok adventure, and the Holiday special. But that stuff never seemed to me like the meat of Star Wars, it just always seemed like the disposable fat that I could cut away and discard.

Or maybe another example would be the difference between something like "The Americans" and "Law and Order." I like both shows (or at least I did like "Law and Order" before I got sick of it way back and stopped watching). But they're two vastly different things. Law and Order was never really building towards anything, it just kept on going. Which is fine for that show, because that's precisely what I expected out of it. But by contrast, "The Americans" WAS building up to something, and I would've been very disappointed if I suddenly realized that it was starting to follow the "Law and Order" formula and just keep on going forever. Call it unfair or inconsistent, but in my mind different properties just carry different expectations of what they're supposed to be.

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#19 Posted by JustPlainLucas (79395 posts) -

I'm starting to view these Star Wars offshoots as cinema versions of expanded universes like they do with the cartoons. I knew Disney would to this, though. Just knew it.

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#20 Posted by npiet1 (2527 posts) -

Marvel is trying to keep the fans happy.

Star wars seems a bit of SJW thing, They already had a few story lines of what happened after original trilogy and ignored them. I would of gone with the Jedi academy story line.

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#21 Posted by gulpaloyn (7 posts) -

As a fan of both Star Wars and Marvel. Most people already knew that Marvel consistently made quality movies whereas Lucasfilms didn't. Marvel knows what the fans want while Lucasfilms doesn't care about their fans.

I know Kathleen Kennedy produced some of my fav movies aka Back to the Future, Indiana Jones and many more but she should step down. Kevin Feige should stay for many years until he needs to retire because let's face it no one can copy the success that he made from the MCU. Not even the DCEU. I'm hoping for Aquaman to be good though