China: See how Greece will thrive if they are managed by us

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Lonelynight

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#1 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts
Credit to mevotex@miricommunity.net Three years ago, state-owned container giant Cosco, the no.1 liner carrier in China, paid 3.3 billion into the coffers of Greeces cash-starved government, buying out half the lease for the port of Piraeus, giving the Chinese a 35-year control of Greece's biggest port. Today, while Greece sinks further with unemployment rate hitting 26 percent, Cosco successfully converted Piraeus into a hotbed of productivity, a place of hope in a country so badly tattered by the debt crisis.  Managed by China: Piraeus port booms amid the Greek economic meltdown Behind the success is Captain Fu Cheng Qiu, the general director of Piraeus Container Terminal, a subsidiary of Cosco, who was sent by Beijing to manage the Greek port. Not only has he managed to mostly steer clear of the Greek crisis, under his supervision, Cosco's parts of Piraeus port went from decline to seeing its cargo volume increased by three times than it was two years ago - this is despite that cargo shipment in the entire Greece has dropped 20 percent. The other half of the port is still run by Greece. And the fact that its business lags behind Coscos half is emblematic of what was wrong in the country, especially the entrenched labor rules and relatively high wages for those lucky enough to still have jobs that have stifled the countrys economic growth. As the Greek government contemplates shedding more state-owned assets to help pay down staggering debts, it might be tempting to consider leasing or even selling the rest of the port to China. Sitting in his office, Fu says he doesn't believe the wave of criticisms from the rest of Europe about Greeks being lazy. Everyone here knows that you must be hard-working, of all our managerial employees, we have only seven Chinese nationals. Greeks are very good and work really hard. His deputy director, Zhang An Ming, agrees, All the builders are Greek. They are top-notch. There is no delay, they are even running ahead of schedule.  A closer view of the port: nothing Greek at all Greece has been the worst-performing European economy in the past several years, and is expected to see its GDP shrink by another 5 percent this year, though an improvement from last year where it contracted by more than 6 percent. The country's fiscal health, in its fifth year of recession, is steeply going downhill, but the Chinese see it differently. Cosco modernized the port terminal, set up new electric cranes to unload cargo more quickly, and construct another new terminal with a depth of 18 meters to host larger ships. Piraeus Pier Three should be operational in the spring of 2013, earlier than originally scheduled. In addition to that, Cosco invested $388 million to expand the dock, boosting its capacity to handle up to 3.7 million containers by 2013, which would make it one of the worlds 10 largest ports. Such capital injection is rare to come by in Greece nowadays, but the Chinese aim to make Piraeus a hub to rival Netherlands' Rotterdam currently Europe's largest port. For China, Piraeus is a gateway to bring Chinese goods into Europe and beyond. China envisages the creation of a network of ports, logistics centers and railways to distribute its products across Europe akin to a modern day Silk Road hastening the speed of China-Europe trade.  Handover of half of Piraeus port to China for 35 years "The equipment was old and in bad shape. We repaired or replaced it," says Fu. "When I arrived here, we would operate between 10 and 12 containers per hour. Today, we operate 44 per hour. Ship owners are happy, they no longer waste time and money, and neither do we." Fu added that he would love Cosco to run all of Piraeus if the government put it up for sale. That expansion would cement Chinese dominance on one of the most strategic shipping gateways to Southern Europe and the Balkans. The Chinese are effectively betting on Greece's maritime strategic values, even though its economy is in complete disarray. Greece is a major player in the international shipping industry, it is a maritime nation by tradition, a key element of its economic activity since ancient times. Through dominating the maritime trade in the region, the Greeks were able to expand along the shores of the Mediterranean Sea and the Black Sea, establishing colonies, and thereby began the Ancient Greece civilization. Greece has nearly 4,000 ships, amounted to 8 percent of all vessels sailing or 15 percent of the world's total moving capacity. Greek companies control an amazing 25 percent of the world's tanker fleet, and 18 percent of the world's bulk carriers, according to George Gratsos, president of the Hellenic Chamber of Shipping. Shipping accounts for 6 percent of Greece's GDP, and a European Community Shipowners' Association report for 2010-2011 reveals that the Greek flag is the fifth-most-used internationally for shipping.  Piraeus port is creating new jobs while the rest of Greece descends into chaos Controlling the largest and most important port in Greece could provide China some additional leverage in the international shipping industry. And the Chinese are certainly not stranger to port management either; six of the world's 10 busiest ports (including Hong Kong) are now in China, with Singapore, Dubai, Busan and Rotterdam making out the rest. Port management is also an industry where the West trailed the East. Singapore's PSA International is at the moment, the world's biggest port operator, followed by Hong Kong's Hutchison Port, Dubai's DP World, Denmark's APM-Maersk, China's Cosco and Germany's EuroGate. The three Asian entities above handled a total 20 percent of all cargoes passed through the globe. The Chinese economic clout is increasingly being felt in Greece. Standing on the dock in the Greek section of Piraeus port, Golfis Yiannis, a port worker, pointed to the adjacent, Chinese-managed pier, "That's Europe's new China Town over there," he says. "The only thing that is certain is that we've sold our soul to the Chinese." John Makrydimitris, another port worker, points toward his feet. "There is Greece," he says. Then he gestures toward a metal fence just yards away. "And there is China," he added.  Spanish and Greek unemployment rate went out of control Workers at the port, like others in Greece, are uneasy about the long-term implications of allowing China to take advantage of the country's economic weakness to grab such an important stake in a strategically crucial part of its economy. George Nouhoutides, president of the Union of Dockworkers, told The Sunday Telegraph that the decision to award the port to China was "catastrophic". "When you discuss a deal with one wealthy country and one which has a lot of debt, who dictates the terms?" he asked. "China wants a 'Made in Europe' label with tax exemptions, favourable terms and to hell with Greek interests." Nouhoutides added: "They are playing a clever game. They have 1.5 billion slaves and money to burn, so of course they want to access our markets. It is catastrophic for all workers not just for the Greeks." As for the port, "It is as if they have created a supermarket right next to our minimarket," said Mr Nouhoutides. "How can we, the Greeks, ever compete with that?"  Anti-Chinese graffiti in Greek-managed section of Piraeus port But ship owners and Greek businesses who benefited from the Chinese success have different voice. "This is the locomotive for our development," said Nikolaos Arvanitis, president of the International Maritime Union the organization that represents the world's largest shipping companies. "Greece needs investment. The Chinese came with good will and we are open to other people who want to come and invest here." At a time when Greece is facing the serious challenge of implementing the structural reforms necessary to re-energize its economy, the shipping industry is putting in over 8.5 billion of investments. "Our old ways of working were very primitive. Now we can really drive forwards and improve Greece's economy. There is nothing to be afraid of. The Chinese are here to develop our infrastructure, and we will benefit. It is a win-win project," Nikolas said. The Chinese are also showing their strength in Greece. Wei Jia Fu, Cosco's chief executive, appears in Greece's Skai Television to say: "I came here to help bring the port of Piraeus back to its original position. I hope soon it will be the number one container port in the Mediterranean. We have a saying in China, 'Construct the eagle's nest, and the eagle will come'. We have constructed such a nest in your country to attract such Chinese eagles. This is our contribution to you."  Greek Prime Minister and Cosco Chief Executive The port may also be just the beginning of China's ambition in Greece, Wei is also looking to acquire stakes in other Greek industries including railways, commercial shipping and tourism, as well as airport management concessions in Crete and elsewhere. So much so German newspaper Zeitung says it is worried that Cosco may opt to move its European headquarter from Hamburg to Greece capital Athens. Across the Greek-managed Piraeus, Thanassis Koinis, a deputy director at the Piraeus Port Authority, stared out the window of his dilapidated office at the bustling cranes soaring above Coscos docks. Its like another country over there. Koinis and some other Greeks accuse Cosco of using employment subcontractors that hire temporary, unskilled, nonunion workers desperate for jobs and exploit them by paying low wages. Tasos Vamvakidis, Coscos commercial manager here, however, discarded the complaints and says they are sour grapes. Its easy to say things against Cosco; but when you come here, you see that everything works properly, he said. We win business by showing that we work 24-7, 365 days a year. Maybe in other terminals, people work less. In any case, if its so bad, thousands of people would not be applying to work for Cosco.  European latest concern: Chinese economic domination But a former Cosco worker, who had just been sacked, spoke to NPR about work conditions on the Chinese-run pier, on the condition that his name not be used. The worker says he regularly worked eight hours a day with no meal breaks and no toilet breaks. "I think their actions are breaking the law," the worker said. "The rights are to have something to eat around 12 o'clock and to have our breaks, and not work like a dog straight through from morning till afternoon." He says workers were told by supervisors to urinate into the sea, rather than taking toilet breaks. Those operating straddle carriers had to take cups up into their cabins to urinate into, and he says they were not given breaks, either, despite the clear dangers of operating at such a height for so long. If you are a worker for Cosco, then you know suddenly how it is to work in the Chinese Republic. The worker says he was paid 600 euros a month about 50 euros each shift around half the salary at the neighboring Greek-operated pier, with no extra money for working night shifts or weekends. There was no set schedule; he was kept on 24-hour call for nine months.  Chinese navy soldiers wave upon their arrival in Greece's Piraeus port His wife says the experience changed his personality. "In the end, it was like a nervous breakdown," she says, gazing at him with concern. "All day he was just waiting to see whether they would call. He didn't know if he had time to eat or to sleep. Sometimes they would ring in the night to tell him to go to work. It was like torture." Piraeus representative Theodore Dritsas, from the left-wing Greek Syriza party accused China of making Piraeus its colony, "What has happened is beyond our imagination. The main problem is that Greece is no longer a sovereign state in economic terms." Greek Minister of State Haris Pamboukis however, told NPR that Cosco is a "model" to be followed. He denied all knowledge of any labor violations, shrugging this off as "rumors" by competitors. "The only kind of law applicable is Greek law, and we're not going to import any kind of practices - Chinese, Martian or elsewhere - who are not conforming to our legislation," he says. "We are in a country for rule of law, and that's it."  Cosco President: Like it or not, we strengthened your economy, and that is all it matters Fu, the Cosco general director in Greece, says Greeks should learn from the Chinese. The Chinese want to make money with work, he said. Too many Europeans have pursued a comfortable, protected existence since the end of World War II. They wanted a good life, more holidays and less work, he said. And they spent money before they had it. Now they have many debts. For Greek workers, Cosco is their future, Fu said. And we are here to stay. The increased port activities have given the Greek government some additional badly-needed tax revenues. Cosco's success in Greece has impressed a number of international organizations. Unionized labor will push back to keep the protection it has enjoyed, said Vassilis Antoniades, the chief executive of Boston Consulting Group in Greece. But the Cosco investment, shows that under private management, Greek companies and ports can be globally competitive.  China gobbling up European industries at rapid pace Greece is not the only European nations to see an influx of Chinese investment. In crisis-hit Spain, Portugal and Ireland, industrial assets are likewise, rapidly falling into the hands of Chinese investors. Spain, for instance, saw investment and commercial deals from China jumped 11.7% in 2011, with further double digit rises expected for 2012 and this year. China's largest privately-owned conglomerate Shanghai Fosun High Technology (Group) Co. has identified tourism as the future of Spanish economy and is currently in the talk of constructing the Barcelona World, a 4.7 billion investment to build six theme parks along with amusement facilities, casinos, hotels, convention venues and shopping centers, that would make it the largest family amusement resort in Europe.  The Chinese developmental model for Athlone. China has leased the town from Ireland to be its 'European trading hub' In Ireland, the Lord Mayor of Dublin welcomes bids from the Chinese to buy out Irish banks and pump fresh funds into the banking sector. The country has approved to lease an Irish town for China to be used as its 'trading hub' in Europe. China will construct an international trade and commerce center on a 137-hectare site at Creggan, Athlone to promote Chinese goods all over Europe. The Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny went personally to China last year to negotiate more Chinese investments into Irish state assets and industries. In Portugal, the Portuguese government sold 21 percent stake of Energias de Portugal (EDP) to China's state-owned Three Gorges Corp. in 2011, making the Chinese the biggest shareholder of Portugal's electric monopoly. Last month, Three Gorges said it is throwing out cash to buy more stakes, increasing to as much as 49 percent, pledged 2 billion in follow-on investment, and up to 2 billion more in financing for the deeply indebted Portuguese concern. This raises eyebrows in Portugal; EDP enjoys a virtual monopoly on the residential retail energy market, some fear Three Gorges will press for more price hikes in order to recoup its investment. Others simply don't like the idea of their country's electricity supply fallen to a non-democratic country.  Portuguese business publication Baptista wondered if the company will continue to be Portuguese if the Chinese buy an even bigger stake to become the majority owner. "Or if the Chinese decide to sell it to another company, that will tear EDP apart and maybe would risk our - the Portuguese - supply of electricity," it said. Source: http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/articl...piraeus-blossomhttp://www.bunkerportsnews.com//News.aspx?...f8-81344d1959f4http://www.carbonpositive.net/industry-upd...ggest-port.htmlhttp://www.dw.de/chinese-investment-in-por...rows/a-15650753http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3101542/L...ticleID=3101542http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaki...breaking24.htmlhttp://www.windpowermonthly.com/go/wpdaily...Nwindpowerdailyhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...nto-Europe.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/business...wanted=all&_r=0http://economists-pick-research.hktdc.com/...00/1X09QRQ1.htm I'm not sure on whether this is a good or bad thing
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k2theswiss

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#2 k2theswiss
Member since 2007 • 16599 Posts
SIR, thats just too much crap...
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Lonelynight

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#3 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts
SIR, thats just too much crap... k2theswiss
huh?
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metroidprime55

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#4 metroidprime55
Member since 2008 • 17657 Posts
[QUOTE="k2theswiss"]SIR, thats just too much crap... Lonelynight
huh?

He says "Too long, didn't read."
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Lonelynight

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#5 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts
[QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="k2theswiss"]SIR, thats just too much crap... metroidprime55
huh?

He says "Too long, didn't read."

It is pretty interesting, you guys should read it.
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Obviously_Right

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#6 Obviously_Right
Member since 2011 • 5331 Posts

Looooool

R.I.P Greece

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MgamerBD

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#7 MgamerBD
Member since 2006 • 17550 Posts
We have to stop China..
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Rattlesnake_8

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#8 Rattlesnake_8
Member since 2004 • 18452 Posts
SIR, thats just too much crap... k2theswiss
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nooblet69

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#9 nooblet69
Member since 2004 • 5162 Posts

China wants to take over the world.  In Africa there are whole chinese towns and now this :O.

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Barbariser

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#10 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts

Much better for Greece to be China's b!tch than Germany's.

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punkpunker

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#11 punkpunker
Member since 2006 • 3383 Posts

if the USA falls, china falls and it definitly will make other countries in china's control go down...

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SaudiFury

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#12 SaudiFury
Member since 2007 • 8709 Posts

wait, China is leasing a town in Ireland? how?!

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Ace6301

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#13 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
Commies and Nazis. You know your economy is in the sh*t when those two start to become real possibilities.
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TheWalkingGhost

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#14 TheWalkingGhost
Member since 2012 • 6092 Posts

China wants to take over the world.  In Africa there are whole chinese towns and now this :O.

nooblet69
Nobody cares if China buys the world. They would if the USA did it, but not China.
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Cataclism

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#15 Cataclism
Member since 2007 • 1537 Posts

The other half of the port is still run by Greece. And the fact that its business lags behind Coscos half is emblematic of what was wrong in the country, especially the entrenched labor rules and relatively high wages for those lucky enough to still have jobs that have stifled the countrys economic growth. As the Greek government contemplates shedding more state-owned assets to help pay down staggering debts, it might be tempting to consider leasing or even selling the rest of the port to China.

The hell? The china-run part of the port is still part of greece, it's still subject to greek labour laws. What the hell is this doing in here?
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AdamPA1006

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#16 AdamPA1006
Member since 2004 • 6422 Posts

They have to piss in the ocean and they are complaining lol

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Lonelynight

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#17 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts

wait, China is leasing a town in Ireland? how?!

SaudiFury
guess they are desperate
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Pirate700

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#18 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

Another thread about China from Lonelynight. The obsession continues.

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dave123321

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#19 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts

Another thread about China from Lonelynight. The obsession continues.

Pirate700
mhm
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dave123321

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#20 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts
Congrats on your best american user win Pirate
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Pirate700

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#21 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

Congrats on your best american user win Piratedave123321
I won?

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leviathan91

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#22 leviathan91
Member since 2007 • 7763 Posts

Finished skimming the post and it was an interesting read if true. For China's sake, it was good that they became capitalist-oriented. Now if they started focusing on human rights then maybe China will become a rivaling superpower.

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dave123321

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#23 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts

[QUOTE="dave123321"]Congrats on your best american user win PiratePirate700

I won?

mhm. But don't let lai know that you know. He is upset that users are finding out early
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Pirate700

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#24 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="dave123321"]Congrats on your best american user win Piratedave123321

I won?

mhm. But don't let lai know that you know. He is upset that users are finding out early

Cool. Thanks for the heads up, Dave. Not to derail this great thread, but when are the results supposed to be official?

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dave123321

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#25 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts

[QUOTE="dave123321"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]I won?

Pirate700

mhm. But don't let lai know that you know. He is upset that users are finding out early

Cool. Thanks for the heads up, Dave. Not to derail this great thread, but when are the results supposed to be official?

Whenever all the talliers are finished and lai gets around to making the thread. Hopefully by the end of the week if not sooner. He actually split the stuff up among people t so the process should go more smoothly this time.
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Lonelynight

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#26 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts

Another thread about China from Lonelynight. The obsession continues.

Pirate700
well I am chinese
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johnd13

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#27 johnd13
Member since 2011 • 11126 Posts

The greek government is desperate for money and foreign investors can always provide a little momentum for the rest of the economy. They really have no choice but to promote such actions regardless of the negative feedback given by the greek people.

And this shows to all those that call the greeks lazy that it' s actually the exact opposite. They are one of the most hardworking people in Europe.

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Squeets

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#28 Squeets
Member since 2006 • 8185 Posts

Why do people fear monger gloabalism.

Just knock it the feck off.

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comp_atkins

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#29 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38694 Posts

no toilet breaks in an 8 hours shift???    madmen

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Socijalisticka

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#30 Socijalisticka
Member since 2011 • 1555 Posts

Singaporean/Chinese authoritative capitalism is far more efficient and productive than our western liberal counterparts.  That's a given.  This very well may be the future of liberalism, with the West adopting to the 'oriental system', while disintegrating the welfare-state.

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wellbigd

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#31 wellbigd
Member since 2007 • 240 Posts

Singaporean/Chinese authoritative capitalism is far more efficient and productive than our western liberal counterparts.  That's a given.  This very well may be the future of liberalism, with the West adopting to the 'oriental system', while disintegrating the welfare-state.

Socijalisticka
I don't think that will happen, its efficient to a point, but we have yet to see the full effects of authoritarian capitalism, I belive there might be a backlash against it very soon.
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HFkami

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#32 HFkami
Member since 2009 • 855 Posts
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD/countries/1W-CN-GR?display=graph if you chinese are so much better why is your country still poor in comparison to greece??
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Barbariser

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#33 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD/countries/1W-CN-GR?display=graph if you chinese are so much better why is your country still poor in comparison to greece??HFkami
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTujEVI8q07rmYbq6uI6cj

Rofl, you can tell that a person is economically clueless when they think that a country experiencing negative growth, a sovereign debt crisis and that was stupid enough to enter into an unregulated currency union is better at economic policy than a rapidly growing, fiscally solvent and monetarily sovereign country simply because it has a higher GDP per capita.

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LongZhiZi

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#34 LongZhiZi
Member since 2009 • 2453 Posts
:lol: China running anything well. You might want to try going to China and see how poorly EVERYTHING is run before suggesting that Chinese could turn around anything. Hell, their own economy is built on a market bubble...we remember how well that went in 2007.
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HFkami

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#35 HFkami
Member since 2009 • 855 Posts

[QUOTE="HFkami"]http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD/countries/1W-CN-GR?display=graph if you chinese are so much better why is your country still poor in comparison to greece??Barbariser

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTujEVI8q07rmYbq6uI6cj

Rofl, you can tell that a person is economically clueless when they think that a country experiencing negative growth, a sovereign debt crisis and that was stupid enough to enter into an unregulated currency union is better at economic policy than a rapidly growing, fiscally solvent and monetarily sovereign country simply because it has a higher GDP per capita.

its simple fact despite that greeks made so many mistakes and china dont they are still 5 times poorer than greeks. If china would have been smarter as whole than greece throughout history than they would already be richer but they arent. OP is here who insist that chinese are superior to greeks.
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Lonelynight

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#36 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts
OP is here who insist that chinese are superior to greeks.HFkami
never said or implied that
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Barbariser

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#37 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts

its simple fact despite that greeks made so many mistakes and china dont they are still 5 times poorer than greeks. If china would have been smarter as whole than greece throughout history than they would already be richer but they arent. OP is here who insist that chinese are superior to greeks.HFkami

Greece now has less than three times the real GDP per capita of China. China is only less productive per capita than Greece as a result of the fact that it only managed to start industrializing in the 1950s after having its economy wrecked by a combination of internal wars and a couple of Japanese invasions in the past few decades, while Greece from the start was backed by Anglo-French alliances to weaken Turkey and later on received money from America and Western Europe to prevent it from aligning itself with the Soviets.

China is relatively poorer per head because of the fact that a huge chunk of it uses crappy tech and works in low productivity jobs and poor economic policies by prior governments, Greece is relatively richer because of luck and being friendly with the leading technological powers of modern history allowing it to become an industrial nation earlier and longer. That doesn't change the fact that today, the PRC is indeed far more competent at managing its economy than "managed to royally fvck up the second currency zone in the world with accounting tricks" Greece.

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KC_Hokie

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#38 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
It would due to the simple fact China doesn't allow a third of it's population to live off the productivity of the other two-thirds.
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HFkami

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#39 HFkami
Member since 2009 • 855 Posts

[QUOTE="HFkami"] its simple fact despite that greeks made so many mistakes and china dont they are still 5 times poorer than greeks. If china would have been smarter as whole than greece throughout history than they would already be richer but they arent. OP is here who insist that chinese are superior to greeks.Barbariser

Greece now has less than three times the real GDP per capita of China. China is only less productive per capita than Greece as a result of the fact that it only managed to start industrializing in the 1950s after having its economy wrecked by a combination of internal wars and a couple of Japanese invasions in the past few decades, while Greece from the start was backed by Anglo-French alliances to weaken Turkey and later on received money from America and Western Europe to prevent it from aligning itself with the Soviets.

China is relatively poorer per head because of the fact that a huge chunk of it uses crappy tech and works in low productivity jobs and poor economic policies by prior governments, Greece is relatively richer because of luck and being friendly with the leading technological powers of modern history allowing it to become an industrial nation earlier and longer. That doesn't change the fact that today, the PRC is indeed far more competent at managing its economy than "managed to royally fvck up the second currency zone in the world with accounting tricks" Greece.

who the hell cares? Greece is 5 times richer than china its proven fact period, stop searching for excuses. Greece was also invaded by nazi germany and even prior to that it was a turkish colony for 100s of years.
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HFkami

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#40 HFkami
Member since 2009 • 855 Posts
[QUOTE="HFkami"]OP is here who insist that chinese are superior to greeks.Lonelynight
never said or implied that

title = See how Greece will thrive if they are managed by us
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coolbeans90

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#41 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

im also not sure if troll or stupid.

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Riverwolf007

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#42 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

well sure it is doing well.

did you see that big ass wall they built around it?

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Nengo_Flow

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#43 Nengo_Flow
Member since 2011 • 10644 Posts
We have to stop China..MgamerBD
why?
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#44 hiphops_savior
Member since 2007 • 8535 Posts
It just shows that the upper management is run by very smart people. The same can't be said about either governments. Mind you, that doesn't mean I am a libertarian. Rather, I would prefer a government that has its citizen's best interest in mind, and that includes free press and free speech to make sure that corruption is in check.
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#45 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

Sounds great.  Love to see Greece and its public workers become dependents of the Chinese govt.  Work for 6 years, then retire for life with a huge pension.  Sounds great.  Hopefully China can continue to support that lifestyle for them.

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Zeviander

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#46 Zeviander
Member since 2011 • 9503 Posts
Funny how one country's redistributive model works while the other's doesn't. Must be that child labour that makes it work for the Chinese.
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Lonelynight

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#47 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts
[QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="HFkami"]OP is here who insist that chinese are superior to greeks.HFkami
never said or implied that

title = See how Greece will thrive if they are managed by us

I simply copied the title from another forum.
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Kats_RK

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#48 Kats_RK
Member since 2010 • 2080 Posts

Damn...it's too much to read.