[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]We should all just sit around and hope the facts magically appear in our lap.ZevianderThat's totally what I said. Herp dee derr.
I'm not so sure the vocabulary we used is of the right calibre for the crowd then
This topic is locked from further discussion.
reading comprehension.FelipeInsideSums up this argument if it were taking place in crazy land In all seriousness though what is up with people just reading the words of a post and not attempting to understand the implications. It's like they see the words and recognize the meanings but don't reconcile those words with the other words or apply any empathy to the conversation.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]"my intention was never for him to think we are right and he is wrong,"Now I can be almost 100% certain you are a troll. Devolving to txt language pretty much seals it.
Stop proving our point if ur not willing to accept it.Zeviander
Like ur almost 100% certain that Science has all the answers and if not, you'll just sit and wait for them instead of thinking for urself?
I'm not troll, lots of others posters can confirm that. TXT Language was to prove that ur are still using the words RIGHT and WRONG because u think that's my intention, when I have said several times now it isn't.
I give up. U have resorted to insults and name calling because u are defensive. Come back when you want to try to understand what we are trying to explain.
You're not willing to look or think beyond what you've been told, so yes pretty much.sandbox3dLord, you're an idiot. I accept the scientific explanation because I can see all the data and experiments right in front of me. I am not a professional scientist, so I can only go on what science has provided. If I decided to get a B.S./M.S./D.S., and pursue a career in research, then I could most certainly come up with my own ideas and have the means to test them. So are you also telling me I should pull things from my ass and put them in the same league as objectively verified explanations? Because I certainly am capable of doing that, I just choose not to.
[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]You're not willing to look or think beyond what you've been told, so yes pretty much.ZevianderLord, you're an idiot. I accept the scientific explanation because I can see all the data and experiments right in front of me. I am not a professional scientist, so I can only go on what science has provided. If I decided to get a B.S./M.S./D.S., and pursue a career in research, then I could most certainly come up with my own ideas and have the means to test them. So are you also telling me I should pull things from my ass and put them in the same league as objectively verified explanations? Because I certainly am capable of doing that, I just choose not to. No No NOOOOOOOOOO. Why can't u understand something so simple? "So are you also telling me I should pull things from my ass and put them in the same league as objectively verified explanations?" NO, we are not saying that. We are saying come up with ur own theories to which Science has no explanation to. What is so wrong with that? "I accept the scientific explanation because I can see all the data and experiments right in front of me. " And that's FINE, no one is telling u not to. We are just talking about the stuff that scientific explanation DOESN'T have the data and experiments of.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]
Like ur almost 100% certain that Science has all the answers and if not, you'll just sit and wait for them instead of thinking for urself?
I'm not troll, lots of others posters can confirm that. TXT Language was to prove that ur are still using the words RIGHT and WRONG because u think that's my intention, when I have said several times now it isn't.
I give up. U have resorted to insults and name calling because u are defensive. Come back when you want to try to understand what we are trying to explain.
Slashless
u r fgt
I do not respond to bare insults. Contribute to the conversation or don't speak.[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Come back when you want to try to understand what we are trying to explain.ZevianderI'm sorry, I don't want my IQ to drop 50 points, thanks. I'll let you go, we were trying to help and u have just resorted to plain insults now. Next time try to stay respectful with people with different points of view, or else you will never get respect urself.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] I do not respond to bare insults. Slashless
>I don't respond
>responds
Again, do u have anything to contribute?[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Come back when you want to try to understand what we are trying to explain.FelipeInsideI'm sorry, I don't want my IQ to drop 50 points, thanks. I'll let you go, we were trying to help and u have just resorted to plain insults now. Next time try to stay respectful with people with different points of view, or else you will never get respect urself.
That's funny...
Now I can be almost 100% certain you are a troll. Devolving to txt language pretty much seals it.[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"]"my intention was never for him to think we are right and he is wrong,"
Stop proving our point if ur not willing to accept it.FelipeInside
Like ur almost 100% certain that Science has all the answers and if not, you'll just sit and wait for them instead of thinking for urself?
Look at this. What does thinking for yourself and then extrapolating those ideas without any backing achieve in terms of answers? Any answer you come across are only going to be true for your own transient self. All you're doing is making things up with no evidence. I have some ideas that are absolutely insane, completely irrational with almost no chance at being true and I would never, never pass those off as anything that could compete with evidence. Science doesn't have all the answers but given infinite time, it will by it's very nature. Your own transient mind is so much smaller in scope and capability of understanding than the entire combined power of humanity. Science doesn't sit and wait and as such anyone who puts stock in it will never be sitting waiting and not thinking for themselves because that sort of behavior is counter-intuitive to the advancement of science. You're trying to say that someone who puts stock in science is closed minded which by the very nature of how science works is an oxymoron.What part?[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Zeviander"]
That's funny...
wis3boi
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Again, do u have anything to contribute?Slashless
Mr.Ranger I have a question.
Go troll somewhere else, we were having a nice conversation but had to ruin it. It's understandable this conversation may go above ur head, and that u need to resort to empty insults to be part of it, but trust me.... contributing something worthwhile reading is so much better.Go troll somewhere else, we were having a nice conversation but had to ruin it. It's understandable this conversation may go above ur head, and that u need to resort to empty insults to be part of it, but trust me.... contributing something worthwhile reading is so much better.FelipeInside
Here to help Gamespot users for any forum related queries.
Please oblige by your duties.
So can I ask you a question.
Next time try to stay respectful with people with different points of view, or else you will never get respect urself.FelipeInsideWhy would I care if I got your respect? I respect your right to hold whatever point of view you want. I've already said that isn't the same as respecting the point of view.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Zeviander"] Now I can be almost 100% certain you are a troll. Devolving to txt language pretty much seals it.Ace6301
Like ur almost 100% certain that Science has all the answers and if not, you'll just sit and wait for them instead of thinking for urself?
Look at this. What does thinking for yourself achieve in terms of Answers? Any answer you come across are only going to be true for your own transient self. All you're doing is making things up with no evidence. I have some ideas that are absolutely insane, completely irrational with almost no chance at being true and I would never, never pass those off as anything that could compete with evidence. Science doesn't have all the answers but given infinite time, it will by it's very nature. Your own transient mind is so much smaller in scope and capability of understanding than the entire combined power of humanity. Science doesn't sit and wait and as such anyone who puts stock in it will never be sitting waiting and not thinking for themselves because that sort of behavior is counter-intuitive to the advancement of science.Like I never have.
It won't. The Human Race will be extinct before Science knows 100% everything about the Universe and beyond.
Yes, and what's wrong with talking about these theories? My point has ALWAYS been that I never put these theories on the same level as science, just theories about things science can't explain or doesn't have the evidence. Nothing wrong with thinking about them.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Go troll somewhere else, we were having a nice conversation but had to ruin it. It's understandable this conversation may go above ur head, and that u need to resort to empty insults to be part of it, but trust me.... contributing something worthwhile reading is so much better.Slashless
Here to help Gamespot users for any forum related queries.
Please oblige by your duties.
So can I ask you a question.
What do you need fellow Gamespotter !!! Ranger is here to help :)[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Why would I care if I got your respect? I respect your right to hold whatever point of view you want. I've already said that isn't the same as respecting the point of view.ZevianderI don't want you to respect my point of view, I just wanted a personal theory from you and u never gave me one.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] What part? wis3boi
your entire argument in this thread.
Of course, cause it's a NON-scientific argument therefore it's funny.[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] What do you need fellow Gamespotter !!! Ranger is here to help :)Slashless
Where do babies come from.
Human babies? From Female Humans with the help of Male Sperm. Now remember, I might be a Ranger but I don't have ALL the answers, although I'll do my best to answer them.[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="sandbox3d"]You're not willing to look or think beyond what you've been told, so yes pretty much.FelipeInsideLord, you're an idiot. I accept the scientific explanation because I can see all the data and experiments right in front of me. I am not a professional scientist, so I can only go on what science has provided. If I decided to get a B.S./M.S./D.S., and pursue a career in research, then I could most certainly come up with my own ideas and have the means to test them. So are you also telling me I should pull things from my ass and put them in the same league as objectively verified explanations? Because I certainly am capable of doing that, I just choose not to. No No NOOOOOOOOOO. Why can't u understand something so simple? "So are you also telling me I should pull things from my ass and put them in the same league as objectively verified explanations?" NO, we are not saying that. We are saying come up with ur own theories to which Science has no explanation to. What is so wrong with that? "I accept the scientific explanation because I can see all the data and experiments right in front of me. " And that's FINE, no one is telling u not to. We are just talking about the stuff that scientific explanation DOESN'T have the data and experiments of.So you're saying make stuff up. Is he supposed to go out and test those hypotheses or should he just be happy with whatever they are? In the post you're quoting, he already said that if he were to pursue a career in research, he could test them.
Yes, and what's wrong with talking about these theories? My point has ALWAYS been that I never put these theories on the same level as science, just theories about things science can't explain or doesn't have the evidence. Nothing wrong with thinking about them.
FelipeInside
We are saying that talking about them is 100% useless. Whatever you come up with has no bearing on reality or anyone else but yourself. The way you word your sentences and arguments points that we should respect your ideas and not criticize them. You are welcome to believe whatever you wish, and I have every right to call those believes illogical and baseless.
Why bring them up at all if you have no reason or evidence to believe them? I can have a dream or vision that jesus appeared to be, and so can you. If you said you had one of these visions, I have no real reason to question you did have one...but it doesn't do anything to make me think it's real or believe in your position. It's just heresay and random thoughts that only apply to the person claiming them. That makes it an empty useless statement.
This isn't intended to start an arguement between theists and atheists. I just want to know, from atheists, what their thoughts are on certain things.
1. Do you think the Ark of the Covenant ever existed, regardless of whether or not it had powers? No
2. Do you think Jesus ever existed? Yes, and he was a great man
3. Do you think a Moses ever existed? I mean, the exodus happened, but whether or not they were led by Moses is up for date. kinda
4. Do you look down on theists? Kinda, most of them mean well
5. Do you disagree with organized religion? Yes
6. Have you ever voted Republican? Hell no
7. Did "Noah's Flood" ever happen? Global, regional, local scale whatever. Can't say
8. Would you became a Christian in the event of the second coming of Jesus? Or Jewish if a new messiah (proven) would come? No, too proud. Its alread too late, I rather stick to my beliefs then use Jesus to be "saved"
9. Anything you would like to add. I like food?
brucewayne69
Look at this. What does thinking for yourself achieve in terms of Answers? Any answer you come across are only going to be true for your own transient self. All you're doing is making things up with no evidence. I have some ideas that are absolutely insane, completely irrational with almost no chance at being true and I would never, never pass those off as anything that could compete with evidence. Science doesn't have all the answers but given infinite time, it will by it's very nature. Your own transient mind is so much smaller in scope and capability of understanding than the entire combined power of humanity. Science doesn't sit and wait and as such anyone who puts stock in it will never be sitting waiting and not thinking for themselves because that sort of behavior is counter-intuitive to the advancement of science.[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"]
Like ur almost 100% certain that Science has all the answers and if not, you'll just sit and wait for them instead of thinking for urself?FelipeInside
Like I never have.
It won't. The Human Race will be extinct before Science knows 100% everything about the Universe and beyond.
Yes, and what's wrong with talking about these theories? My point has ALWAYS been that I never put these theories on the same level as science, just theories about things science can't explain or doesn't have the evidence. Nothing wrong with thinking about them.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]
Yes, and what's wrong with talking about these theories? My point has ALWAYS been that I never put these theories on the same level as science, just theories about things science can't explain or doesn't have the evidence. Nothing wrong with thinking about them.
wis3boi
We are saying that talking about them is 100% useless. Whatever you come up with has no bearing on reality or anyone else but yourself. The way you word your sentences and arguments points that we should respect your ideas and not criticize them. You are welcome to believe whatever you wish, and I have every right to call those believes illogical and baseless.
Why bring them up at all if you have no reason or evidence to believe them? I can have a dream or vision that jesus appeared to be, and so can you. If you said you had one of these visions, I have no real reason to question you did have one...but it doesn't do anything to make me think it's real or believe in your position. It's just heresay and random thoughts that only apply to the person claiming them. That makes it an empty useless statement.
But wheres the fun in that? What's the point of discussing a scientific theory if it's been tested and proven 100%. There is nothing to talk about, it's fact. Discussing and coming up with theories about things that science CAN'T explain, well....that to me is endless fun and debates, but to you it's pointless. Sorry if I word my sentences in that way, it isn't my intention. I am open to theories from every corner, I love to learn about them.[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"]
Yes, and what's wrong with talking about these theories? My point has ALWAYS been that I never put these theories on the same level as science, just theories about things science can't explain or doesn't have the evidence. Nothing wrong with thinking about them.
FelipeInside
We are saying that talking about them is 100% useless. Whatever you come up with has no bearing on reality or anyone else but yourself. The way you word your sentences and arguments points that we should respect your ideas and not criticize them. You are welcome to believe whatever you wish, and I have every right to call those believes illogical and baseless.
Why bring them up at all if you have no reason or evidence to believe them? I can have a dream or vision that jesus appeared to be, and so can you. If you said you had one of these visions, I have no real reason to question you did have one...but it doesn't do anything to make me think it's real or believe in your position. It's just heresay and random thoughts that only apply to the person claiming them. That makes it an empty useless statement.
But wheres the fun in that? What's the point of discussing a scientific theory if it's been tested and proven 100%. There is nothing to talk about, it's fact. Discussing and coming up with theories about things that science CAN'T explain, well....that to me is endless fun and debates, but to you it's pointless. Sorry if I word my sentences in that way, it isn't my intention. I am open to theories from every corner, I love to learn about them.like the comic I posted earlier, we look at the world and draw conclusions based on the facts we uncover and we want them to be proven false if possible in order to gain better knowledge.
I want, in my life, to know as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. Starting with the conclusion and looking for facts to support the conclusion is a horrible way to look for the truth. I don't care what's "fun", I care what is real. Noah's Ark is 'fun' to some people, to reality, it's theistic fan fiction.
Listening to many many many hours of lectures by philosophers and physicists has given me an unmeasurable amount of fascination and wodner to the world I live in that random assumptions I can make up will never get me. Reality is amazing in itself and the scientific process of constantly trying to prove yourself wrong to uncover greater truths is more fun to me.
What's the point of discussing a scientific theory if it's been tested and proven 100%. FelipeInsideThat's the thing, nothing in science is 100%. It's why we continue to talk about evolution and other theories, because they can be constantly improved. Making absurd sh!t up isn't science. P.S. When has science been wrong?
But wheres the fun in that? What's the point of discussing a scientific theory if it's been tested and proven 100%. There is nothing to talk about, it's fact. Discussing and coming up with theories about things that science CAN'T explain, well....that to me is endless fun and debates, but to you it's pointless. Sorry if I word my sentences in that way, it isn't my intention. I am open to theories from every corner, I love to learn about them.[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]
We are saying that talking about them is 100% useless. Whatever you come up with has no bearing on reality or anyone else but yourself. The way you word your sentences and arguments points that we should respect your ideas and not criticize them. You are welcome to believe whatever you wish, and I have every right to call those believes illogical and baseless.
Why bring them up at all if you have no reason or evidence to believe them? I can have a dream or vision that jesus appeared to be, and so can you. If you said you had one of these visions, I have no real reason to question you did have one...but it doesn't do anything to make me think it's real or believe in your position. It's just heresay and random thoughts that only apply to the person claiming them. That makes it an empty useless statement.
wis3boi
like the comic I posted earlier, we look at the world and draw conclusions based on the facts we uncover and we want them to be proven false if possible in order to gain better knowledge.
I want, in my life, to know as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. Starting with the conclusion and looking for facts to support the conclusion is a horrible way to look for the truth. I don't care what's "fun", I care what is real. Noah's Ark is 'fun' to some people, to reality, it's theistic fan fiction
That's good, and I respect that you want to know as much as possible, and as few false things as possible. Now, for what you DON'T know, and never will. Don't you even think about those things?This isn't intended to start an arguement between theists and atheists. I just want to know, from atheists, what their thoughts are on certain things.
1. Do you think the Ark of the Covenant ever existed, regardless of whether or not it had powers?
no
2. Do you think Jesus ever existed?
no
3. Do you think a Moses ever existed? I mean, the exodus happened, but whether or not they were led by Moses is up for date.
no
4. Do you look down on theists?
no
5. Do you disagree with organized religion?
no
6. Have you ever voted Republican?
yes
7. Did "Noah's Flood" ever happen? Global, regional, local scale whatever.
no
8. Would you became a Christian in the event of the second coming of Jesus? Or Jewish if a new messiah (proven) would come?
no
9. Anything you would like to add.
no
brucewayne69
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]What's the point of discussing a scientific theory if it's been tested and proven 100%. ZevianderThat's the thing, nothing in science is 100%. It's why we continue to talk about evolution and other theories, because they can be constantly improved. Making absurd sh!t up isn't science. P.S. When has science been wrong? http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/science-mistakes/science-mistakes.html Google is full of those articles, but like I said countless times before, u are concentrating on the wrong thing. I DON'T CARE IF SCIENCE HAS BEEN WRONG OR NOT.
[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] But wheres the fun in that? What's the point of discussing a scientific theory if it's been tested and proven 100%. There is nothing to talk about, it's fact. Discussing and coming up with theories about things that science CAN'T explain, well....that to me is endless fun and debates, but to you it's pointless. Sorry if I word my sentences in that way, it isn't my intention. I am open to theories from every corner, I love to learn about them.FelipeInside
like the comic I posted earlier, we look at the world and draw conclusions based on the facts we uncover and we want them to be proven false if possible in order to gain better knowledge.
I want, in my life, to know as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. Starting with the conclusion and looking for facts to support the conclusion is a horrible way to look for the truth. I don't care what's "fun", I care what is real. Noah's Ark is 'fun' to some people, to reality, it's theistic fan fiction
That's good, and I respect that you want to know as much as possible, and as few false things as possible. Now, for what you DON'T know, and never will. Don't you even think about those things? Everyone does. But guess what: They're useless. They have zero grounding on reality. Imagination is only good for entertainment, I know that very well.Now, for what you DON'T know, and never will. Don't you even think about those things?FelipeInsideI'll answer this because I don't think I have yet. No, I don't think about those things, because I would be wasting what precious little time I have here on Earth worrying about something I can never know. P.P.S. When has science been wrong?
[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] But wheres the fun in that? What's the point of discussing a scientific theory if it's been tested and proven 100%. There is nothing to talk about, it's fact. Discussing and coming up with theories about things that science CAN'T explain, well....that to me is endless fun and debates, but to you it's pointless. Sorry if I word my sentences in that way, it isn't my intention. I am open to theories from every corner, I love to learn about them.FelipeInside
like the comic I posted earlier, we look at the world and draw conclusions based on the facts we uncover and we want them to be proven false if possible in order to gain better knowledge.
I want, in my life, to know as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. Starting with the conclusion and looking for facts to support the conclusion is a horrible way to look for the truth. I don't care what's "fun", I care what is real. Noah's Ark is 'fun' to some people, to reality, it's theistic fan fiction
That's good, and I respect that you want to know as much as possible, and as few false things as possible. Now, for what you DON'T know, and never will. Don't you even think about those things?Do I think about them? For a few moments possibly, but they have no bearing on anything until real testable and observable science has a say on it. Example: What caused/came before the big bang is such a mindfvck for science (because the laws of physics don't apply before it occured) that I'd rather listen to theoretical physicists and their lectures than pull stuff out of my ass. They are the one who have the right to provide serious hyptheses (that can be tested)
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]That's good, and I respect that you want to know as much as possible, and as few false things as possible. Now, for what you DON'T know, and never will. Don't you even think about those things? Everyone does. But guess what: They're useless. They have zero grounding on reality. Imagination is only good for entertainment, I know that very well. Useless in what way? Of course they won't prove anything, but they stimulate the mind and open ur understanding of things. What's wrong with that?like the comic I posted earlier, we look at the world and draw conclusions based on the facts we uncover and we want them to be proven false if possible in order to gain better knowledge.
I want, in my life, to know as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. Starting with the conclusion and looking for facts to support the conclusion is a horrible way to look for the truth. I don't care what's "fun", I care what is real. Noah's Ark is 'fun' to some people, to reality, it's theistic fan fiction
Ace6301
[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"]What's the point of discussing a scientific theory if it's been tested and proven 100%. FelipeInsideThat's the thing, nothing in science is 100%. It's why we continue to talk about evolution and other theories, because they can be constantly improved. Making absurd sh!t up isn't science. P.S. When has science been wrong? http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/science-mistakes/science-mistakes.html Google is full of those articles, but like I said countless times before, u are concentrating on the wrong thing. I DON'T CARE IF SCIENCE HAS BEEN WRONG OR NOT.
That article is mostly proof as science disproving stupid ideas.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Now, for what you DON'T know, and never will. Don't you even think about those things?ZevianderI'll answer this because I don't think I have yet. No, I don't think about those things, because I would be wasting what precious little time I have here on Earth worrying about something I can never know. P.P.S. When has science been wrong? And that's why I said ur were close-minded, u finally see my point without taking it as an insult? It's not wasting precious time to think outside the box either. I already responded to ur PS before btw.
http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/science-mistakes/science-mistakes.html Google is full of those articles, but like I said countless times before, u are concentrating on the wrong thing. I DON'T CARE IF SCIENCE HAS BEEN WRONG OR NOT.FelipeInsideI said wrong, not somewhat misguided or misinformed. Alchemy was a hypothesis that was tested and proven flawed. This is merely one step on the road of science. Without the flawed hypothesis of alchemy, we wouldn't have developed chemistry. The other examples are exactly the same. I want an example of science being WRONG. Like evolution being proven entirely incorrect because goddidit or whatever. There is no instance of science being "wrong" because it adapts to any new piece of evidence that comes forth, and doesn't make an absolute claim regarding truth. This was my point all along, and I just needed you to let me prove my point.
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] That's good, and I respect that you want to know as much as possible, and as few false things as possible. Now, for what you DON'T know, and never will. Don't you even think about those things?FelipeInsideEveryone does. But guess what: They're useless. They have zero grounding on reality. Imagination is only good for entertainment, I know that very well. Useless in what way? Of course they won't prove anything, but they stimulate the mind and open ur understanding of things. What's wrong with that?
they cannot be applied in any way.
They stimulate the mind like JK Rowling stimulated hers in writing Harry Potter. It's art-like creativity, not something you can apply to life's major questions and science. Have an awesome idea about alien civilizations? Cool, write a sci-fi book, don't compare it to actual scientific theory
It's not wasting precious time to think outside the box either.FelipeInsideIt totally is. "Outside the box" is string theory. What you are attempting to posit here is akin to Genesis in the Bible being considered as the factual origin of the Earth. You have no basis for your "intelligent creator" "theory" outside your own hopeful speculation.
[QUOTE="ninjastar"][QUOTE="cheese_game619"] but it wouldnt be too late god forgives and all that jazzcheese_game619
Well I guess I just wouldn't care enough to change then.
you wouldnt care about spending eternity in suffering because you were proven wrong as an atheist, proven being a key word there. that makes no sense you wouldnt even have to do much to qualify as a christian Unless free will/human emotions were completely stripped away from everyone, I strongly disagree that anyone can get into heaven. However, that means the situation would be equivalent to inhaling Jokers nerve gas where you really have no choice but to laugh while in heaven you have no other choice but to act happy. And I really don't like the idea of artificial happiness considering how much I hate the idea of worshiping some God. To be force to like seems like BS to me...Please Log In to post.
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