Ariana Grande is the #1 Artist in the World right now

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#101 Posted by Jag85 (13535 posts) -


Okay, so your argument essentially boils down to the production. But like I said above, underground rap is not about the production, but it's about the lyrics. So I think you may have missed the point of what underground rap is about.

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#102 Posted by X_Karen_x (500 posts) -


No I say it a genre which heavy to use technology and artist With more equipment have more tool to make more creative song.

I not get what you say it about the lyric. So as the example Kanye west make song with same type lyric as a underground rapper as you say then it all to sudden Kanye is undergrounds or he magically make underground rapper as a pop?

I not think lyric have anything a do with it. It like Bob Dylan a icon. He make all kind of musics. It range in many genre. When he start he make folk song on acoustic. Then he make rock and roll music but lyric it just bob Dylan.

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#103 Posted by Orionsbane (32 posts) -

Usually I'm the last person to complain about "Music used to be better in the past", "Modern music sucks", but damn...
This is actually sad... I do not mind modern music, eg. I love MARUV and what she does.

But Ariana Grande... wowe...

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#104 Edited by Jag85 (13535 posts) -


To quote Wikipedia's article on underground rap:

Underground hip hop is an umbrella term for hip hop music outside the general commercial canon. It is typically associated with independent artists, signed to independent labels or no label at all. Underground hip hop is often characterized by socially conscious, positive, or anti-commercial lyrics. However, there is no unifying or universal theme – AllMusic suggests that it "has no sonic signifiers". "The Underground" also refers to the community of musicians, fans and others that support non-commercial, or independent music. Music scenes with strong ties to underground hip hop include alternative hip hop and conscious hip hop.

Underground rap is hip hop's equivalent to punk or indie rock. The production is stripped-down, and the lyrics are typically anti-commercial and anti-establishment. In many ways, underground rap is what hip hop originally was about back in the golden age of hip hop. But as hip hop became mainstream, it became more pro-commercial and pro-establishment. So underground rap is a reaction to that, going back to hip hop's anti-commercial and anti-establishment roots.

Hip hop isn't directly comparable to rock, as rock is defined more by its production style, whereas rap music is defined more by its vocal style. Rock music without vocals is still rock, but rap music without vocals is not rap. What was revolutionary about hip hop in the first place was its lack of a chord. Up until the rise of hip hop, nearly all popular music was driven by chords (including rock), before hip hop came along with chord-less vocals, essentially a form of poetry over a beat. If there is anything that defines hip hop in terms of production, that would have to be the Roland TR-808 drum machine, which is just as central to hip hop (whether it's using a real 808, or sampled 808s) as the electric guitar is to rock music.

And finally, you can't just lump all rap music together like that. UK grime, for example, is an entirely different genre to US hip hop, so much so that it isn't even considered be a form of hip hop at all, but an entirely different form of rap. There isn't anything particularly "pop" about grime, and it has a completely different lyrical flow and production style from mainstream US hip hop.

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#105 Posted by Elpresador-911 (1093 posts) -

@orionsbane: Ariana is my mommy ☺️💗

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#106 Posted by X_Karen_x (500 posts) -


Ugh to Wikipedia.

Punk it not a thing anymore. Indie label it not even small time label anymore.

So it self produce to be call underground? That just independent. A independent artist can still make a pop album. See what it mean?

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#107 Edited by Jag85 (13535 posts) -


That wasn't the point of my post though.

Anyway, it seems like we're just going around in circles. Agree to disagree?

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#108 Posted by X_Karen_x (500 posts) -



Last thing to be said is a music platform it so much different than from the past. Thing which cost $10,000 back then it something many people can access for fraction of this cost. It program today that produce. Rap it just too popular to be consider underground scene. Everybody make the music even some kid make on a cell phone as low budgets as it sound. It a argument to be make that is the most pop genre to make because it beat can be make on any technologies.

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#109 Edited by marley7game (32 posts) -



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#110 Posted by Elpresador-911 (1093 posts) -

@marley7game: QUEEN 💗💗😍

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#111 Edited by LJS9502_basic (166563 posts) -

@Jag85 said:


Oxford dictionary definition of pop: "Relating to commercial popular music."

"Pop" is not a real genre, but it's just a broad label for whatever music is popular on the charts at any given point in time.

If something was popular in the past, then it was the "pop" of that era. If it's no longer popular today, then it's no longer the "pop" of today. Whatever is "pop" changes with the times.

The same goes for any media. The Western, for example, was the "pop" movie genre of its time, yet it's now a niche/indie/underground genre.

Eh there is certainly a style of music now that is pop. Yeah the term evolved from popular but it's also a genre now. A bad genre. But a genre nonetheless.

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#112 Posted by Jag85 (13535 posts) -


My point was that "pop" isn't a fixed style of music, but is a label that reflects the dominant style of music in its day. For example, "pop" meant pop-rock in the '60s, disco in the '70s, synth-pop in the '80s, etc. But there are some common elements that have remained consistent in "pop" music over the decades: verse-chorus structure, repeated choruses, melodic tunes, and hooks.

And that's why underground rap cannot be considered a form of "pop" music, since most underground rap usually lacks most of those key "pop" ingredients. Whereas contemporary mainstream hip hop has adopted some of those "pop" elements to appeal to a larger mainstream audience.