• 88 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for deactivated-598fc45371265
deactivated-598fc45371265

13247

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

#1 deactivated-598fc45371265
Member since 2008 • 13247 Posts

Can you guys tell me why you're still arming Egypt?

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/6/muslim-brotherhood-inherits-us-war-gear/

Why Egypt needs and deserves M1A1 tanks and F16s...?

And what other military rival Egypt has in the region besides Israel (also supplied by the US).....?

Avatar image for thebest31406
thebest31406

3775

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts

Can you guys tell me why you're still arming Egypt?

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/6/muslim-brotherhood-inherits-us-war-gear/

Why Egypt needs and deserves M1A1 tanks and F16s...?

And what other military rival Egypt has in the region besides Israel (also supplied by the US).....?

Storm_Marine
It's a US client state that runs the ME in the interest of the US.
Avatar image for Jackc8
Jackc8

8515

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 20

User Lists: 0

#3 Jackc8
Member since 2007 • 8515 Posts

The rest of the countries in that area buy their arms from Russia.

Can you tell me why Russia is still supplying arms to Syria?

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts
You know sh!t indeed. If you get to actually know the Muslim Brotherhood you will realize that they are more than willing to be U.S's b!tch and get in return power and authority in the region. Muslim Brotherhood is a pure political party, a sh!tty one that is. They just use religious speech to influence dumb masses.
Avatar image for sexyweapons
sexyweapons

5302

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#5 sexyweapons
Member since 2009 • 5302 Posts

So they can develop them or something...

Avatar image for KingKinect
KingKinect

548

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#6 KingKinect
Member since 2012 • 548 Posts

Arming muslim brotherhood Egypt and Israel just seems like good business to me. The more paranoid they get of each other the more sales and $.

Avatar image for ZX81plus3
ZX81plus3

181

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 ZX81plus3
Member since 2012 • 181 Posts

Arming muslim brotherhood Egypt and Israel just seems like good business to me. The more paranoid they get of each other the more sales and $.

KingKinect
That's evil. Have you ever seen the film Lord of War?
Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#8 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

I didn't know we as a country are held accountable for our government's actions.

Why don't you write a letter to congress and ask them yourself?

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

I didn't know we as a country are held accountable for our government's actions.

Why don't you write a letter to congress and ask them yourself?

airshocker
:lol: you elect them after all.
Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#10 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

:lol: you elect them after all.GazaAli

So just because we elect them we are responsible for them? What happened to people being responsible for their own actions? We don't prosecute the voters when one of their representatives are indicted for a crime. How is this any different?

Avatar image for deactivated-5b78379493e12
deactivated-5b78379493e12

15625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#11 deactivated-5b78379493e12
Member since 2005 • 15625 Posts

You're asking OT American to explain the policy of decades of politicians and heads of state?

Good luck with that.

Avatar image for KingKinect
KingKinect

548

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#12 KingKinect
Member since 2012 • 548 Posts

[QUOTE="KingKinect"]

Arming muslim brotherhood Egypt and Israel just seems like good business to me. The more paranoid they get of each other the more sales and $.

ZX81plus3

That's evil. Have you ever seen the film Lord of War?

It's not Lord of War, it's "Warlord". If you didn't understand that reference yes I have seen it. It's the one with the hot hookers he can't bang because he might get aids :( Personally I would have taken my chances.

Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
deactivated-59d151f079814

47239

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#13 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] :lol: you elect them after all.airshocker

So just because we elect them we are responsible for them? What happened to people being responsible for their own actions? We don't prosecute the voters when one of their representatives are indicted for a crime. How is this any different?

The difference is this.. This wasn't some random crime, this was typical US policy that really hasn't changed for 40 years.. Hell yes you can blame the voter for this because this has been going on for so long.. This isn't just some random event that took every one by surprise, this is long standing policy..

Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#14 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

The difference is this.. This wasn't some random crime, this was typical US policy that really hasn't changed for 40 years.. Hell yes you can blame the voter for this because this has been going on for so long.. This isn't just some random event that took every one by surprise, this is long standing policy..

sSubZerOo

Until voters can be held accountable for the crimes of politicians your point is invalid.

Avatar image for tagyhag
tagyhag

15874

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15 tagyhag
Member since 2007 • 15874 Posts
Money is money. You think the government actually gives a sh*t about people?
Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
deactivated-59d151f079814

47239

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#16 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

The difference is this.. This wasn't some random crime, this was typical US policy that really hasn't changed for 40 years.. Hell yes you can blame the voter for this because this has been going on for so long.. This isn't just some random event that took every one by surprise, this is long standing policy..

airshocker

Until voters can be held accountable for the crimes of politicians your point is invalid.

This isn't a crime though, this is long standing US policy..

Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#17 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

This isn't a crime though, this is long standing US policy..

sSubZerOo

Same principle. US voters cannot be held accountable for what elected politicians do. An individual is responsible for their own actions.

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] :lol: you elect them after all.airshocker

So just because we elect them we are responsible for them? What happened to people being responsible for their own actions? We don't prosecute the voters when one of their representatives are indicted for a crime. How is this any different?

Isn't that the whole point of a representative democracy? We can't have all people involved in decision making so we let them elect few people to represent them in governance and policy making. Being indicted for a crime is irrelevant to one's political career, its only relevant to his/her personal life. Another point is I'd buy into your "voters are not responsible for the actions of the representatives they elected" argument if those voters where somehow deceived to elect them once. But these people keep getting reelected over and over and you'd expect voters to have enough responsibility/maturity to elect some decent people.
Avatar image for Verge_6
Verge_6

20282

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

The rest of the countries in that area buy their arms from Russia.

Can you tell me why Russia is still supplying arms to Syria?

Jackc8
Shush, OT runs on hilariously idealistic mindsets and double-standards. You know that, don't go disrupting the MO.
Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#20 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Isn't that the whole point of a representative democracy? We can't have all people involved in decision making so we let them elect few people to represent them in governance and policy making. Being indicted for a crime is irrelevant to one's political career, its only relevant to his/her personal life. Another point is I'd buy into your "voters are not responsible for the actions of the representatives they elected" argument if those voters where somehow deceived to elect them once. But these people keep getting reelected over and over and you'd expect voters to have enough responsibility/maturity to elect some decent people.GazaAli

Yes, it is. So how can a voter be responsible for their representative if they are not responsible for the crimes of those representatives? It makes no sense. You can't cherry pick just because it suits you. It's either all, or nothing.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53593

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#21 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

Because they pay for them?

We'll sell too anybody who will pay for them. Otherwise they'll just go buy weapons from Russia. We would rather have their money.

All of the major weapons the US and Russia exports are always the "export" version of them. Neither the US or Russia ever sells their standard military equipment. As a rule of thumb you never sell somebody a weapon that is better than your own.

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

This isn't a crime though, this is long standing US policy..

airshocker

Same principle. US voters cannot be held accountable for what elected politicians do. An individual is responsible for their own actions.

So why do people elect politicians? I'm not saying people should be persecuted for their representatives' crimes/poor decisions, but on a political level voters will have to face the repercussions of their elected politicians' policies and decisions. That's why people overthrow governments and why Americans right now are blaming Obama, Bush..etc for the economy. seriously :?
Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#23 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

So why do people elect politicians? I'm not saying people should be persecuted for their representatives' crimes/poor decisions, but on a political level voters will have to face the repercussions of their elected politicians' policies and decisions. That's why people overthrow governments and why Americans right now are blaming Obama, Bush..etc for the economy. seriously :?GazaAli

That is exactly what you're saying. There's no middle-ground here.

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Isn't that the whole point of a representative democracy? We can't have all people involved in decision making so we let them elect few people to represent them in governance and policy making. Being indicted for a crime is irrelevant to one's political career, its only relevant to his/her personal life. Another point is I'd buy into your "voters are not responsible for the actions of the representatives they elected" argument if those voters where somehow deceived to elect them once. But these people keep getting reelected over and over and you'd expect voters to have enough responsibility/maturity to elect some decent people.airshocker

Yes, it is. So how can a voter be responsible for their representative if they are not responsible for the crimes of those representatives? It makes no sense. You can't cherry pick just because it suits you. It's either all, or nothing.

When a voter votes for a politician, s/he does so based on their political beliefs and expectations. They do not elect politicians for their morality, sexual orientation...etc
Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]So why do people elect politicians? I'm not saying people should be persecuted for their representatives' crimes/poor decisions, but on a political level voters will have to face the repercussions of their elected politicians' policies and decisions. That's why people overthrow governments and why Americans right now are blaming Obama, Bush..etc for the economy. seriously :?airshocker

That is exactly what you're saying. There's no middle-ground here.

ok then tell me why do people vote?
Avatar image for KingKinect
KingKinect

548

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#26 KingKinect
Member since 2012 • 548 Posts

Isn't that the whole point of a representative democracy? We can't have all people involved in decision making so we let them elect few people to represent them in governance and policy making. Being indicted for a crime is irrelevant to one's political career, its only relevant to his/her personal life. Another point is I'd buy into your "voters are not responsible for the actions of the representatives they elected" argument if those voters where somehow deceived to elect them once. But these people keep getting reelected over and over and you'd expect voters to have enough responsibility/maturity to elect some decent people.GazaAli

This is an educational video on how the two party system works :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAT_BuJAI70

Also :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTJ0qYR6YFo

Avatar image for Verge_6
Verge_6

20282

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

Because they pay for them?

We'll sell pretty much anybody weapons who will pay for them. Otherwise they'll just go buy weapons from Russia. We would rather have their money.

All of the major weapons the US and Russia exports are always the "export" version of them. Neither the US or Russia ever sells their standard military equipment. As a rule of thumb you never sell somebody a weapon that is better than your own.

Wasdie
Or even on par with your own. But, on this board anyways, a tank is a tank and a plane is a plane, regardless if the one being exported has a crap-tier sensor package as standard or targeting equipment that was outmoded even when the Wall fell.
Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#28 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

When a voter votes for a politician, s/he does so based on their political beliefs and expectations. They do not elect politicians for their morality, sexual orientation...etcGazaAli

That isn't what we're talking about.

Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#29 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

ok then tell me why do people vote?GazaAli

I don't care why people vote. The only thing I'm talking about is regards to voters being held accountable for their politicians actions.

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts
@KingKinect I know how sh!tty the U.S's two parties system is and how much Americans are dissatisfied with it but I was making a general point about democracy.
Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]ok then tell me why do people vote?airshocker

I don't care why people vote. The only thing I'm talking about is regards to voters being held accountable for their politicians actions.

Can't you tell me regardless?
Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] When a voter votes for a politician, s/he does so based on their political beliefs and expectations. They do not elect politicians for their morality, sexual orientation...etcairshocker

That isn't what we're talking about.

It is if you insist that voters are either fully responsible for the actions of their elected representatives or not at all.
Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#33 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Can't you tell me regardless?GazaAli

Why should I talk about something that has nothing to do with my original point...?

Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#34 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

It is if you insist that voters are either fully responsible for the actions of their elected representatives or not at all.GazaAli

No it isn't.

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts
Do you have anything else to say other than NO or I DON'T WANT TO?
Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#36 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Do you have anything else to say other than NO or I DON'T WANT TO?GazaAli

When you stop acting like kuraimen and get back to the point I'm actually talking about, sure.

Avatar image for PWSteal_Ldpinch
PWSteal_Ldpinch

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#37 PWSteal_Ldpinch
Member since 2011 • 1172 Posts

I didn't know we as a country are held accountable for our government's actions.

Why don't you write a letter to congress and ask them yourself?

airshocker

Well in a representative democracy we are at least a little bit accountable for our government's actions. Anyway to answer TC it's because America's foreign policy in the middle east has always been built on a fundamental lack of understanding of the region. Among which is the misunderstanding that any of these countries will exist stably in the long run. What happened in Egypt is the same as what happened in Iran. Just two years before the Iranian Revolution president Carter gave material support to the Shah thinking that Iran was "an island of stability" in the middle east. Repeatedly, American foreign policy has failed to account for the extreme contempt of the US in the Middle East, and American leaders would not be arming these people if these sentiments had been known to them.

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Do you have anything else to say other than NO or I DON'T WANT TO?airshocker

When you stop acting like kuraimen and get back to the point I'm actually talking about, sure.

Acting like what exactly?
Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#39 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Well in a representative democracy we are at least a little bit accountable for our government's actions.PWSteal_Ldpinch

I disagree. Now if I was a leading member of the party, complicit in some type of scandal or crime, then absolutely I would be responsible.

But in the eyes of the law no one is accountable for the actions of somebody else except in some very particular circumstances.

Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#40 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Acting like what exactly?GazaAli

He has a tendency to prattle on about things that aren't directly related to the points others are making. Then expects them to respond to those points.

I don't play that game.

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

I didn't know we as a country are held accountable for our government's actions.

Why don't you write a letter to congress and ask them yourself?

PWSteal_Ldpinch

Well in a representative democracy we are at least a little bit accountable for our government's actions. Anyway to answer TC it's because America's foreign policy in the middle east has always been built on a fundamental lack of understanding of the region. Among which is the misunderstanding that any of these countries will exist stably in the long run. What happened in Egypt is the same as what happened in Iran. Just two years before the Iranian Revolution president Carter gave material support to the Shah thinking that Iran was "an island of stability" in the middle east. Repeatedly, American foreign policy has failed to account for the extreme contempt of the US in the Middle East, and American leaders would not be arming these people if these sentiments had been known to them.

If you really believe that U.S governments and its various institutions (CIA, State department, U.S Army, Consulates...etc) act with a poor understanding of the region then you are seriously deranged. You may not like their policies if you have the assumption that the average American citizen and they want the same thing which is largely incorrect.
Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#42 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] Acting like what exactly?airshocker

He has a tendency to prattle on about things that aren't directly related to the points others are making. Then expects them to respond to those points.

I don't play that game.

What a boss. That's a sh!tty excuse to end a discussion.
Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#43 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

What a boss. That's a sh!tty excuse to end a discussion.GazaAli

It's kuraimen, there's never a sh*tty reason to end a discussion with him.

I have no problems discussing anything with anybody. I'm not the one bringing up arbitrary points that have nothing to do with my original point.

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#44 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]What a boss. That's a sh!tty excuse to end a discussion.airshocker

It's kuraimen, there's never a sh*tty reason to end a discussion with him.

I have no problems discussing anything with anybody. I'm not the one bringing up arbitrary points that have nothing to do with my original point.

That's a pretty shortsighted way of looking at things. When people discuss something they don't just focus on it directly with a yes or no approach. They tend to approach it from different angles and take into account several related things on various levels. I can see however that you are not a fan which is fine anyway.
Avatar image for BossPerson
BossPerson

9177

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#45 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts

It's to keep them happy so they remain "friendly"

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#46 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

It's to keep them happy so they remain "friendly"

BossPerson
or to keep them policing the region.
Avatar image for BossPerson
BossPerson

9177

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#47 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts

Airshocker doesn't seem to know what a representaitve democracy entails.

When a country has been doing the same thing for decades, at least to a certain extent, the voters who put them in office and didn;t make it an issue are responsible (to some extent).

Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#48 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

That's a pretty shortsighted way of looking at things. When people discuss something they don't just focus on it directly with a yes or no approach. They tend to approach it from different angles and take into account several related things on various levels. I can see however that you are not a fan which is fine anyway.GazaAli

You've done no such thing. If you have a point to make, something that would give me a reason to blame voters for the actions of their representatives, then make it.

Avatar image for airshocker
airshocker

31700

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#49 airshocker
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Airshocker doesn't seem to know what a representaitve democracy entails.

When a country has been doing the same thing for decades, at least to a certain extent, the voters who put them in office and didn;t make it an issue are responsible (to some extent).

BossPerson

I seem to know much more than any of you. I'm not trying to hold voters accountable for things they have no control over.

Avatar image for GazaAli
GazaAli

25216

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#50 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

Airshocker doesn't seem to know what a representaitve democracy entails.

When a country has been doing the same thing for decades, at least to a certain extent, the voters who put them in office and didn;t make it an issue are responsible (to some extent).

airshocker

I seem to know much more than any of you. I'm not trying to hold voters accountable for things they have no control over.

But how they don't have control over it when they put them there?