American Dream(Maybe just a modest dream).

This may not seem like the greatest and most incredible dream of some of you. But you'd be happy for the rest of your life getting 60k per year on a job. Living in a house like this and driving a 2009 Toyota Camry?

This view "The American Dream" has always felt like a cop-out to me. Just because we the U.S citizen may have it better than some other places doesn't mean that everything is perfect and that we should stop striving for better lives for our citizens. To me, I don't think the American Dream implies that everything is perfect and that we shouldn't strive for better. However imperfect, the U.S is still "the land of opportunity" for many. I've met immigrant landscapers, cab drivers, and chemistry teachers all doing things here they told me they couldn't do wherever they were from. That sounds like hype, but for good or bad the fact that people come here and make a life for themselves has to mean something.

The American Dream is that, with hard work, you can have success. Having worked hard and been successful, I stay in school, do the right thing and now, I have a successful career I like to do and make good salary. I'm in my early 30's, people 10 years younger than me seem to think that their landscape is different. I'm not sure if this is really the case or if they forgot about the "Hard Work" part because kids/teens nowadays want easy lifestyle.

I think the American Dream means different things to different people.

I remember when I was a teenager I always wanted women. (still applies to now) Probably because I never had much luck with them. I was never super-close to my family but get along okay with them. By contrast my one friend at the time put a lot of value into having a good family, because his family fought a lot. But he dated all sorts of women.

To this day I still want women. I'm willing to bet he still wants a family.

It seems to me that to get anywhere in life you have to play all of these little 'games' with other people to appeal to them. Dress a certain way, act a certain way, go here not there. I think we are all only willing to conform to social expectations so much before we say no, I want to at least enjoy my life and do the things I want to do, even if I never get what I want.

Yeah, I would definitely be happy with 60k a year (no debt), an average house, a nice family, and a nice neighborhood. A 2009 Toyota Camry isn;t bad either.

Looks good to me. I got the nice family and car taken care of, now waiting for my citizenship to get a house ^_^

@davillain-: @davillain-: @devens:

Where do you live now? Would you consider this a middle-class lifestyle in the country or state where you live?

@littleangrydog: I was born & raised in the U.S. I live in Atlanta Georgia. The U.S isn't what it makes it out to be as far as "The American Dream" living in America can be tough, I still see people living in poor with no place to call home, our people still fights over taxes with little to no changes. The pictures you posted does and you can get that lifestyle if and only "if" you work very hard by saving up money and you can buy good houses, but the cost of living has skyrocket so hard, it makes it even harder to get beautiful house unless you have a career that grants you $5K or more.

I live in a decent house which is almost similar to the pic above, I only have one child (girl) and my girlfriend (baby mama) and we all live in a medium size house but the cost of living is sure is tough but nothing to make me go broke or anything like that.

I have never ever left my home country that is the U.S and sometimes when I hear about other places such as the Netherlands, I just wanna live there and it looks like you have it made too. I guess it's the opposite if one was born in the U.S who never venture out of his/her country before and thanks other places have it better then the U.S.

Can't talk about the difference between the US and the Netherlands since I've never lived there and the info I have access to is normally the sensationalist news that never reflect a country in good light but moving from Portugal to the Netherlands was like moving from the doghouse to a mansion :p

You need to be a citizen to own your own home there? That's new to me. Here, a legal resident/green card holder can own their own homes.

The best time of my life is now, and now is the time I live off the least amount of money ever in my life.

Now...to be clear, the reason I am happy is not because I am living poor, but becasue I save up 75% of my income.

Technically this year (my last year to work) I am saving 100%.

So with that, I would rather live in a RV travel trailer than a house :)

No but it does make it easier to get loans, etc.

Oh. Okay. I imagine the interest rates are also lower for citizens.

And if you're looking to rent (whether apartment or house) the more years you've lived in the country (in the same place) the easier it is to get the place you're interested in. It's a bit of a strange system.

Now that bold part I can totally get. I guess there's more to it when starting new but, was it hard to leave home even though times were bad?

I don't know if I could or wanted to leave my birth country, even if I was going through hard times.

The leaving was easy; I didn't leave much behind other than the easiness of communication. The arrival was difficult though...the anti-immigrant sentiment seems to be growing everywhere and with some discrimination intended and some more perceived I had a hell of a time adapting. It was worth it though.

You came to the Netherlands? Welcome ^__^ Many stroopwafels to you.

Thank you! Didn't know you were Dutch.

It's a secret. I hope you catch some of that Dutch spirit, there are too few of us. And some of it has been fading over the years a little. At least on the surface.

If anyone says something about Dutch culture and whether it even exists, tell them it's the Dutch spirit ;) they'll eat that right up. (It's something everyone can learn to have but don't tell us that cause we're a little proud of it.)

Of course, Dutch culture exists. The first Dutch things that come to my mind and to most people I know who never visited there are the canals/dikes/windmills, tulips, and um, he he, klompen. ;)

I'm also very interested in the events that occurred in A Bridge Too Far. Then, there's Aruba which is located in The Netherlands Antilles, correct? A little bit of Dutch in the Western Hemisphere.

Ik woon hier 5 jaar nu maar ik heb een Nederlandse vrouw dus genoeg “Dutch spirit” ;) Nog niet mee eens met “doe normaal” maar natuurlijk een stroopwafel en Efteling fan :p O, en “wat een kutweer” X’D

Actually (unfortunately), the first thing that comes to the minds of most people when the Nederlands is involved is drugs and prostitutes...apparently we're always stoned and screwing anyone we see on a window. Also, according to NBC's Katie Couric we all skate to work :p

Not where I am. Most people here think of visiting other countries in terms of a family vacation. Personally, I prefer Antalya, Turkey. But, for others, Europe (including The Netherlands) still ranks up there.

That's $30/hr... How many people actually make that?? To answer your question, yeah, I'd be happy with all those. Camrys aren't cheap cars by any means. And that house is like 3 times the size of my current one.

Actually that's a great system, I wish Australia would adopt that system.

I find it curious how reaching 60k per year seems difficult for many Americans. This salary would represent 5k per month. It seems to me a salary perfectly compatible with a middle-class citizen in a regular job. A restaurant manager should earn something around 5k. Maybe a little less or a little more than this.

I think this is impressive because you do not have to have a salary as high in a country as the United States you have is one of the lowest cost living countries in the world.

You can buy a Camry XLE V6 2018 or a Honda Accord Touring for 33k ~ 35k. It is not really necessary to earn more than 3k a month to stay relatively comfortable. What do you think?

Which perspective do you mean?

Is it so difficult to get 60k in the United States or is it easy to achieve this goal?

I do not know what the difference between Portugal and the United States should be. But I think it's not very big from an economic point of view. In the United States the cost of living is lower and wages are higher than in Portugal. But Portugal has a system of transportation, public health and safety one superior to the United States. In the end I would not know exactly which is better since quality of life is also a matter of personal taste. What do you say to me between the USA and Portugal?

Even though I considered living in the US at some point I would still have to say Portugal. The government is corrupt but not all that incompetent (or at least it wasn't when I moved out) and the economy can suck but if you find a good boss or decide to start your own business you can probably live comfortably (if not luxuriously...unless you don't live in Lisbon...then the cost of real estate goes WAY down...you'll end up having to drive to Lisbon, most likely).

Most importantly I've never felt unsafe in Portugal. Never worried about getting attacked and getting shot has never entered my mind...can't say the same for the US, but I admit that is heavily influenced by the media as well.

Transportation system in the big cities is top notch in Portugal even though they play a little loose with train schedules sometimes...just use the subway. Healthcare-wise health insurances are not mandatory but I never had to worry whether or not I would get treatment if the need arose. Medication price can be heavy though, but I think that's the same in the US.

The older population is still very anti-black/gay but if you stay outside of those pockets people are quite friendly and supportive.

And it's a damn beautiful country with a lot of culture and history :)

No American dream for me I'm disabled and one step away from being homeless.

What is the best city in Portugal to start living and looking for a job? Coimbra seems a very quiet city and the real estate is cheap. But it's a very small town. Is it worth starting life in Coimbra looking for a job? Or do you suggest another city like Lisbon or Porto?

All i ask for is a quiet place away from main road and park.

@littleangrydog: I lived in Lisbon all my life. Easy access to everything, you can be anywhere in the town in 15 minutes with the subway (or an hour and a half if you drive XD), most businesses are there. On the other hand the real estate price is through the roof and you'll have a hard time earning enough for it unless you make quite a bit of money from the get go or rent a room for a while (or take a bunch of money with you, which you should anyway). My main advice is, don't be an idiot (no offense) and plan further than just buying the plane ticket. I can't even tell you how many people I know who move to another country with almost no money, no work lined up, no place to stay, and no connections in the country. Don't think I need to tell you that doesn't work out very well...

If i can be happy, that'd be great

@korvus : I was shocked that the houses were so cheap in Coimbra. There are two-story houses, attic and basement with reasonably spacious yard for only 300k ~ 350k. But now I'm looking at some houses in Lisbon and it seems that they have reduced in size by half costing the same price. Lisboa is a kind of Portuguese Los Angeles. Really more expensive to live.

So my predictions are better than I thought. USA is a country that does not provide social assistance at all. In this respect Europe is a step ahead. But in the United States you can get rich if you work honestly and do not give up and in Europe you can not get rich so easily. I may be mistaken but I believe that with 60k a year a citizen manages to finance that house posted on this topic. The car is one of the first steps to be reached because automobile is very cheap in the USA. The biggest challenge for a citizen in the United States as in any country in the world is to buy their own home. After that the expenses are lighter to enjoy with other consumer goods.

I do not know why. But buying a car in Australia, Europe and Canada is more expensive than in America. Have you taken a look at the absurd prices they charge? Visit the Australian Toyota website and draw your conclusions O.o

@thegerg :I'm sorry, I may be wrong. But the only American state I hear about that offers accessible public health is Massaschussets with the Masshealth program. They said it sucks and it's not worth going there just because of it. It is better to pay for a health program where you are already living.

I do not think that bad at all. The United States offers other advantages that no nation can offer such as freedom, private initiative, purchasing power, and great wages. Europe follows a different social policy. Just different but not exactly better.

American dream is built on getting the woman in the picture first and then keeping her happy by buying the rest. The better looking the woman, the bigger the house and nicer the car you will need to be part of the dream.

It would be fair to say if you looked like the guy in that picture, you can have the woman without any of the hassle of the rest.

In Texas you can win some girls with a nice truck. I do not know if in Chicago, Los Angeles or NY you can get the attention of a girl just because she has a big car. Cars are common things and most girls can buy their own with some job. I think the important thing is to be able to not demand work from them. If you can afford to keep the house bills paid they will be happy not to have to get up at 7am and come home at 6pm every day. If you live in a big city you can add another 2 hours because of the traffic.

This thread had me searching for houses in my area. If I had my way instead of the wife, I would've found a better house than the one we have now. I found one that I like. I mean, it's more to my liking than hers. The backyard isn't too big. But, there's enough room for a swimming pool which is included plus a concrete pad with a permanent basketball half-court (not the portable one) spacious enough to shoot 3-pointers, covered back porch, etc. $225k. *sigh*

What's sad is that is unattainable for the vast majority of Americans these days. At least not without debt that their grandchildren will inherit.

I would definitely be happy with that house, but I wouldn't settle for a Toyota Camry. There are far better cars I could buy than that.