America is going CRAZY...Time to Ban Guns

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Hellraiser3899

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#151 Hellraiser3899
Member since 2005 • 10060 Posts
Eh, I always thought the 2nd Amendment was past its use.
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proctorsurf

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#152 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts
Eh, I always thought the 2nd Amendment was past its use.Hellraiser3899
yeah... same with personal liberty
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dsmccracken

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#153 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.proctorsurf

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

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dsmccracken

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#154 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="Hellraiser3899"]Eh, I always thought the 2nd Amendment was past its use.proctorsurf
yeah... same with personal liberty

Nope, just the 2nd. You can keep your right to assemble... party at my crib.

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madmidnight

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#155 madmidnight
Member since 2004 • 2066 Posts

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.dsmccracken

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

Actually if we legalized those drugs and taxed them we would make so much money, and drug dealers would be out of business which is where a lot of the violence comes from. LEGALIZE IT ALL!!
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Manly-manly-man

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#156 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

It oppresses the citizen's right to defend themselves, and thus the criminals have nothing to worry about. If more people had guns, less criminals would attack them. If half of the population had guns, a criminal would have a 50-50 chance of being shot, and no one likes those laws. Take away the citizen's guns, and the criminal has no worries, and will commit more crimes. Let's even take it to the extreme.

dsmccracken

This kind of logic sounds great on paper (or forums). In practice, however, other civilized nations WITH gun control haven't suffered from the unchecked crime you seem to be implying would be the result of such control measures in the US. This is misdirection by gun apologists that sounds great but is false.

That's because they never had guns to begin with. The US is a different story.

Ah, now I see your point. You are correct, for awhile, there will be a disconnect, growing pains, it could be bad for awhile, but then it's not exactly a peach now. But a first step must always be taken, your country is trapped in a cycle that it can't get out of. Every year, gun sales increase faster than your bloody population... red flag, that is. No product, guns or anything else, lasts forever. Every criminal arrested and gun confiscated is one less, if there is no new supply, only then can things change.

And you are wrong. Canada does have guns. Illegal guns. They come, for the most part, from the US. Thanks for that. Even still, our gun-related deaths are nowhere near yours, not even as a ratio per 100000 people.

I agree, something needs to change, but a first step is NOT banning guns. And I didn't mean they didn't have guns at all, I meant they didn't have a large population of guns, and more and more guns being produced constantly. I believe one gun every 3 seconds...

People who talk about or advocate gun control are not always talking about banning them. We have guns in Canada, legal ones, I have shot rifles (though very long ago), we have lots of hunting. Hand guns are by far the biggest problem, and account for the vast majority of homicides. And remember, the production in factories will stop if they can't sell them anymore. That's just supply and demand. I don't think this would create an illegal gun market that would equate with speak-easies during prohibition. We had prohibition too, and gin was rampant. We have gun control now, but guns are not rampant, at least not at your level.

The US isn't there only market. Other countries, and hell, the military still have a high demand. And while I agree handguns aren't very useful, banning is still not a good choice. Just much more strict on hand guns.

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JLAudio7

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#157 JLAudio7
Member since 2007 • 2729 Posts


There is another mass shooting, it seems that every week now theres some gunman going crazy.. and it is getting more common.

America is in a war of itself. This country is starting to become really screwed up. When was the last time you have seen a dad teaches his 8yr old girl how to shoot a 50 caliber machine gun?

All these people say "No War!" but yet they turn around and teaches their little girl how to shoot a machine gun? WTF

Media needs to stop promoting violence. And ban guns. For anyone who wants to obtain guns they need to go through testing, similar to getting a drivers license but much harder.

This way things like this doesn't happen.xTw1st4x
yes lets ban guns. that way, if a theif breaks into our house with a GUN, we dont have anything to defend ourselves with. banning guns wont stop people from breaking the law and aquiring guns. besides:

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proctorsurf

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#158 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.dsmccracken

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

omg... you are like a thorn in my side... I don't have time to waste debating you... I simply stated that every single one of these shooters were on prescription drugs. I never hear about them being drunk or under the influence of anything else... when was the last time pot made you want to kill some one? God.. have you been on this damn forum all day waiting for me to come back?
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dsmccracken

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#159 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.madmidnight

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

Actually if we legalized those drugs and taxed them we would make so much money, and drug dealers would be out of business which is where a lot of the violence comes from. LEGALIZE IT ALL!!

Other countries have tried and failed at this. Holland does ok with pot, but the experiment with Heroin et al is a disaster, a nightmare. Legalizing arguments always tempts with taxes, but in the end, let me ask you: what is greater, the gain of the taxes on tobacco, or the drain of treating the multitudes of cancer/emphysema, etc? It's not even close.

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shoeman12

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#160 shoeman12
Member since 2005 • 8744 Posts

[QUOTE="xTw1st4x"]
There is another mass shooting, it seems that every week now theres some gunman going crazy.. and it is getting more common.

America is in a war of itself. This country is starting to become really screwed up. When was the last time you have seen a dad teaches his 8yr old girl how to shoot a 50 caliber machine gun?

All these people say "No War!" but yet they turn around and teaches their little girl how to shoot a machine gun? WTF

Media needs to stop promoting violence. And ban guns. For anyone who wants to obtain guns they need to go through testing, similar to getting a drivers license but much harder.

This way things like this doesn't happen.JLAudio7

yes lets ban guns. that way, if a theif breaks into our house with a GUN, we dont have anything to defend ourselves with. banning guns wont stop people from breaking the law and aquiring guns. besides:

i know, people act like if we ban guns, all the criminals will just hand them over too. they would just love that because they're the only ones with guns and we, the law abiding citizens, won't be able to stop them.

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dlp21

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#161 dlp21
Member since 2003 • 2116 Posts

WWII vet fends of attackers....with a gun; saves his life

That is on the CNN website along with the NIU shooting, to which I say, if people were allowed to carry guns on campus, then this person that decided to shoot the school up would probably either of rethought what he was about to do, or died not of self inflicted wounds but of self defense wounds.

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Elraptor

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#162 Elraptor
Member since 2004 • 30966 Posts
What's this about little girls learning to shoot machine guns? :?
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dsmccracken

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#163 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.proctorsurf

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

omg... you are like a thorn in my side... I don't have time to waste debating you... I simply stated that every single one of these shooters were on prescription drugs. I never hear about them being drunk or under the influence of anything else... when was the last time pot made you want to kill some one? God.. have you been on this damn forum all day waiting for me to come back?

Pot doesn't make you want to kill someone. For most, pot never leads to anything harmful, I'm sure. But no one goes from 0 to heroin. Pot is a gateway drug, not for all, but for enough that it is worth giving it all up to spare others from eventually becomming slaves to substance abuse. A pot smoker gives up a little bit of pleasure to spare another a motherlode of pain... sounds fair to me.

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dsmccracken

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#164 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="JLAudio7"]

[QUOTE="xTw1st4x"]
There is another mass shooting, it seems that every week now theres some gunman going crazy.. and it is getting more common.

America is in a war of itself. This country is starting to become really screwed up. When was the last time you have seen a dad teaches his 8yr old girl how to shoot a 50 caliber machine gun?

All these people say "No War!" but yet they turn around and teaches their little girl how to shoot a machine gun? WTF

Media needs to stop promoting violence. And ban guns. For anyone who wants to obtain guns they need to go through testing, similar to getting a drivers license but much harder.

This way things like this doesn't happen.shoeman12

yes lets ban guns. that way, if a theif breaks into our house with a GUN, we dont have anything to defend ourselves with. banning guns wont stop people from breaking the law and aquiring guns. besides:

i know, people act like if we ban guns, all the criminals will just hand them over too. they would just love that because they're the only ones with guns and we, the law abiding citizens, won't be able to stop them.

If that is the inevitable result, why is it that criminals aren't all powerful ruling warlords in the civilized countries that have decent gun control laws? Criminals may not "hand them over," but they won't be rolling in them, making gun angels on their lawns if their sources dry up.

Quick edit: How many cat burglars you got crawling through your window at night packing heat, anyway? You live in Beirut or something?

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dsmccracken

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#165 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.proctorsurf

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

omg... you are like a thorn in my side... I don't have time to waste debating you... I simply stated that every single one of these shooters were on prescription drugs. I never hear about them being drunk or under the influence of anything else... when was the last time pot made you want to kill some one? God.. have you been on this damn forum all day waiting for me to come back?

Weird reaction, I kinda thought I was agreeing with you there, except with illegal or legal but useless drugs instead of pharmaceuticals. Who are you again?

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dlp21

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#166 dlp21
Member since 2003 • 2116 Posts

If that is the inevitable result, why is it that criminals aren't all powerful ruling warlords in the civilized countries that have decent gun control laws? Criminals may not "hand them over," but they won't be rolling in them, making gun angels on their lawns if their sources dry up.

dsmccracken

Conversly there is no statitical decrease in violent crime in these nations and ofter violent crime is actually higher. And the reason there isn't an overthrow....Police, and Military are controlled by the Government and if need be would come crushing down on anyone attempting to obtain that kind of power.

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Manly-manly-man

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#167 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="proctorsurf"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.dsmccracken

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

omg... you are like a thorn in my side... I don't have time to waste debating you... I simply stated that every single one of these shooters were on prescription drugs. I never hear about them being drunk or under the influence of anything else... when was the last time pot made you want to kill some one? God.. have you been on this damn forum all day waiting for me to come back?

Pot doesn't make you want to kill someone. For most, pot never leads to anything harmful, I'm sure. But no one goes from 0 to heroin. Pot is a gateway drug, not for all, but for enough that it is worth giving it all up to spare others from eventually becomming slaves to substance abuse. A pot smoker gives up a little bit of pleasure to spare another a motherlode of pain... sounds fair to me.

Pot doesn't lead to other drugs. If someone does heroein, pot didn't cause it. Pot is just the easiest thing to get. Sort of like knife collecting. You start with the cheap, $20 knives. Most people don't need more then that. But then there are people who spend $370 on CRK Sebenzas. It's not because of that $20 knife, it's just in there personality, and all they could afford at the time was the $20.

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dsmccracken

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#168 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="proctorsurf"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.Manly-manly-man

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

omg... you are like a thorn in my side... I don't have time to waste debating you... I simply stated that every single one of these shooters were on prescription drugs. I never hear about them being drunk or under the influence of anything else... when was the last time pot made you want to kill some one? God.. have you been on this damn forum all day waiting for me to come back?

Pot doesn't make you want to kill someone. For most, pot never leads to anything harmful, I'm sure. But no one goes from 0 to heroin. Pot is a gateway drug, not for all, but for enough that it is worth giving it all up to spare others from eventually becomming slaves to substance abuse. A pot smoker gives up a little bit of pleasure to spare another a motherlode of pain... sounds fair to me.

Pot doesn't lead to other drugs. If someone does heroein, pot didn't cause it. Pot is just the easiest thing to get. Sort of like knife collecting. You start with the cheap, $20 knives. Most people don't need more then that. But then there are people who spend $370 on CRK Sebenzas. It's not because of that $20 knife, it's just in there personality, and all they could afford at the time was the $20.

Like I said, for most pot isn't a gateway to anything but a good time and a bag of Doritos. But no one goes from 0 to Heroin.

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middito

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#169 middito
Member since 2003 • 955 Posts

technology is just a part of nature perfecting itself, tools (like guns) are just an extention of its user. just like the driver of a fast car, the pilot of a jet, or the sword of a samurai. It is the will of the wielder becoming reality (in this case the will of harming another). Getting rid of guns won't solve the real problem, your issue isn't with the gun itself, but the will of the user.

In which case they will still have the same desire, and will find other means to an end (killing). besides projectile weaponry isn't exactly rocket science it's been around for ~400+ years, ban all guns and i'm sure someone out there that has the knowledge and the tools can make their own. I'll just invent a brass taser gauntlet when society reverts back to swords and axes.

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#170 inyourface_12
Member since 2006 • 14757 Posts
thats absolute bullcrap, you cant ban guns, thats completely ignoring our right to bear arms and our right to defend ourselves, thats so unconstitutional its not funny
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proctorsurf

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#171 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts
[QUOTE="proctorsurf"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.dsmccracken

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

omg... you are like a thorn in my side... I don't have time to waste debating you... I simply stated that every single one of these shooters were on prescription drugs. I never hear about them being drunk or under the influence of anything else... when was the last time pot made you want to kill some one? God.. have you been on this damn forum all day waiting for me to come back?

Pot doesn't make you want to kill someone. For most, pot never leads to anything harmful, I'm sure. But no one goes from 0 to heroin. Pot is a gateway drug, not for all, but for enough that it is worth giving it all up to spare others from eventually becomming slaves to substance abuse. A pot smoker gives up a little bit of pleasure to spare another a motherlode of pain... sounds fair to me.

When was the last time one of these mass shooters was a heroin addict? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.... I stated my opinion... it's fine to have your own also... it's all part of being an individual.... beliefs are great... cherish them, but don't go sharing them like they're the truth.
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madmidnight

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#172 madmidnight
Member since 2004 • 2066 Posts
[QUOTE="madmidnight"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.dsmccracken

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

Actually if we legalized those drugs and taxed them we would make so much money, and drug dealers would be out of business which is where a lot of the violence comes from. LEGALIZE IT ALL!!

Other countries have tried and failed at this. Holland does ok with pot, but the experiment with Heroin et al is a disaster, a nightmare. Legalizing arguments always tempts with taxes, but in the end, let me ask you: what is greater, the gain of the taxes on tobacco, or the drain of treating the multitudes of cancer/emphysema, etc? It's not even close.

Yeah that legalized it all thing wasn't a great idea, I think pot being legal would be okay, maybe cocaine too. Tabacco is ok, its all an individuals choice. Health Insurance shouldn't cover peoples self inflicted cancer via smoking tabacco.
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dsmccracken

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#173 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

If that is the inevitable result, why is it that criminals aren't all powerful ruling warlords in the civilized countries that have decent gun control laws? Criminals may not "hand them over," but they won't be rolling in them, making gun angels on their lawns if their sources dry up.

dlp21

Conversly there is no statitical decrease in violent crime in these nations and ofter violent crime is actually higher. And the reason there isn't an overthrow....Police, and Military are controlled by the Government and if need be would come crushing down on anyone attempting to obtain that kind of power.

Actually, there is a massive statistical decrease in crime... gun crime. Please don't make me fish out the links, I did it earlier today, I need to go to bed. I've seen the stats that show the US has a WAY higher rate of gun deaths, but I haven't seen anything that shows that in other countries those deaths are simply replaced by knife/brick/poison deaths. And even if... let's say Brazil, had less % gun deaths but made up for it in poison deaths or something, wouldn't that be more of an argument AGAINST poison, rather than FOR guns? 30000 gun deaths a year, that is crazy, you're the US of freaking A, you're better than this. Saying the gun deaths would just be replaced by knife deaths (again, I've never seen anything to support this) is just quitter talk. You should be aiming for better, not the mean.

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dsmccracken

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#174 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

thats absolute bullcrap, you cant ban guns, thats completely ignoring our right to bear arms and our right to defend ourselves, thats so unconstitutional its not funnyinyourface_12

Constitutions can be changed. Like the part about slavery. It's called an amendment.

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#175 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

but don't go sharing them like they're the truth.
proctorsurf

Are you sharing YOUR beliefs like they are lies?

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Manly-manly-man

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#176 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="proctorsurf"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.dsmccracken

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

omg... you are like a thorn in my side... I don't have time to waste debating you... I simply stated that every single one of these shooters were on prescription drugs. I never hear about them being drunk or under the influence of anything else... when was the last time pot made you want to kill some one? God.. have you been on this damn forum all day waiting for me to come back?

Pot doesn't make you want to kill someone. For most, pot never leads to anything harmful, I'm sure. But no one goes from 0 to heroin. Pot is a gateway drug, not for all, but for enough that it is worth giving it all up to spare others from eventually becomming slaves to substance abuse. A pot smoker gives up a little bit of pleasure to spare another a motherlode of pain... sounds fair to me.

Pot doesn't lead to other drugs. If someone does heroein, pot didn't cause it. Pot is just the easiest thing to get. Sort of like knife collecting. You start with the cheap, $20 knives. Most people don't need more then that. But then there are people who spend $370 on CRK Sebenzas. It's not because of that $20 knife, it's just in there personality, and all they could afford at the time was the $20.

Like I said, for most pot isn't a gateway to anything but a good time and a bag of Doritos. But no one goes from 0 to Heroin.

Smoking pot and then heroein later doesn't make pot a gateway drug, it just makes pot a temporary solution to the person's addictive personality. If mushrooms, acid, etc. were more available then pot, it would be the same situation.

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dlp21

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#177 dlp21
Member since 2003 • 2116 Posts
[QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

If that is the inevitable result, why is it that criminals aren't all powerful ruling warlords in the civilized countries that have decent gun control laws? Criminals may not "hand them over," but they won't be rolling in them, making gun angels on their lawns if their sources dry up.

dsmccracken

Conversly there is no statitical decrease in violent crime in these nations and ofter violent crime is actually higher. And the reason there isn't an overthrow....Police, and Military are controlled by the Government and if need be would come crushing down on anyone attempting to obtain that kind of power.

Actually, there is a massive statistical decrease in crime... gun crime. Please don't make me fish out the links, I did it earlier today, I need to go to be. I've seen the stats that show the US has a WAY higher rate of gun deaths, but I haven't seen anything that shows that in other countries those deaths are simply replaced by knife/brick/poison deaths. And even if... let's say Brazil, had less % gun deaths but made up for it in poison deaths or something, wouldn't that be more of an argument AGAINST poison, rather than FOR guns? 30000 gun deaths a year, that is crazy, you're the US of freaking A, you're better than this. Saying the gun deaths would just be replaced by knife deaths (again, I've never seen anything to support this) is just quitter talk. You should be aiming for better, not the mean.

To which I reply this is the US of A and I like the Bill of Rights the way it is.....unchanged. I shoot guns for a living, I carry one on my person when I go out, and there is always one by the bedside.

The threat of crime is statistically greater where I live(and I live there because that is where my job is)and I want the ability to defend myself against crime, whether it is theft or violent.

I work to many hours to just have all my possesions turned over to a theif, and I love my family to much to see anything bad ever happed to them. Banning guns just makes protecting all my things harder....not easier.

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SunofVich

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#178 SunofVich
Member since 2004 • 4665 Posts

When something like this happens why don't people point at the real thing to blame. And in this case it would be the parents.

Guns are an important part of my family tradition.

If they come for our guns we will hold them off in the wilderness.

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Manly-manly-man

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#179 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="madmidnight"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.madmidnight

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

Actually if we legalized those drugs and taxed them we would make so much money, and drug dealers would be out of business which is where a lot of the violence comes from. LEGALIZE IT ALL!!

Other countries have tried and failed at this. Holland does ok with pot, but the experiment with Heroin et al is a disaster, a nightmare. Legalizing arguments always tempts with taxes, but in the end, let me ask you: what is greater, the gain of the taxes on tobacco, or the drain of treating the multitudes of cancer/emphysema, etc? It's not even close.

Yeah that legalized it all thing wasn't a great idea, I think pot being legal would be okay, maybe cocaine too. Tabacco is ok, its all an individuals choice. Health Insurance shouldn't cover peoples self inflicted cancer via smoking tabacco.

Coke? Are you kidding? Cocaine is highly addictive, it changes the state of mind of a person dramatically, and you can easily OD on it. Not to mention crack is one ingredient away.

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dsmccracken

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#180 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

Smoking pot and then heroein later doesn't make pot a gateway drug, it just makes pot a temporary solution to the person's addictive personality. If mushrooms, acid, etc. were more available then pot, it would be the same situation.Manly-manly-man

Get rid of acid too.

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freshgman

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#181 freshgman
Member since 2005 • 12241 Posts
i like guns for real. Just cuz one idiot decides to kill it shouldnt be banned. Plus it is in the constitution
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madmidnight

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#182 madmidnight
Member since 2004 • 2066 Posts
[QUOTE="madmidnight"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="madmidnight"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.Manly-manly-man

I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/pot/heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

Actually if we legalized those drugs and taxed them we would make so much money, and drug dealers would be out of business which is where a lot of the violence comes from. LEGALIZE IT ALL!!

Other countries have tried and failed at this. Holland does ok with pot, but the experiment with Heroin et al is a disaster, a nightmare. Legalizing arguments always tempts with taxes, but in the end, let me ask you: what is greater, the gain of the taxes on tobacco, or the drain of treating the multitudes of cancer/emphysema, etc? It's not even close.

Yeah that legalized it all thing wasn't a great idea, I think pot being legal would be okay, maybe cocaine too. Tabacco is ok, its all an individuals choice. Health Insurance shouldn't cover peoples self inflicted cancer via smoking tabacco.

Coke? Are you kidding? Cocaine is highly addictive, it changes the state of mind of a person dramatically, and you can easily OD on it. Not to mention crack is one ingredient away.

Crack is not an ingredient in cocaine, it can be made from cocaine with baking soda, but that is beside the point. Cocaine isn't that much more addictive than alcohal, and causes less deaths. It takes quite a bit of Cocaine to OD, and a person wouldn't OD unless they are depressed and want to end themselves. It doesn't change the state of mind as dramatically as alcohal...

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BeBattey

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#183 BeBattey
Member since 2008 • 227 Posts
Gun banning would take so much force, it'd turn into a massive political event, between republicans, who like guns, to democrats, who hate guns. IMO, a gun ban would be good, but it'd have to be enforced in extreme measures. Either that or waaay more strict licensing laws.
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dsmccracken

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#184 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

If that is the inevitable result, why is it that criminals aren't all powerful ruling warlords in the civilized countries that have decent gun control laws? Criminals may not "hand them over," but they won't be rolling in them, making gun angels on their lawns if their sources dry up.

dlp21

Conversly there is no statitical decrease in violent crime in these nations and ofter violent crime is actually higher. And the reason there isn't an overthrow....Police, and Military are controlled by the Government and if need be would come crushing down on anyone attempting to obtain that kind of power.

Actually, there is a massive statistical decrease in crime... gun crime. Please don't make me fish out the links, I did it earlier today, I need to go to be. I've seen the stats that show the US has a WAY higher rate of gun deaths, but I haven't seen anything that shows that in other countries those deaths are simply replaced by knife/brick/poison deaths. And even if... let's say Brazil, had less % gun deaths but made up for it in poison deaths or something, wouldn't that be more of an argument AGAINST poison, rather than FOR guns? 30000 gun deaths a year, that is crazy, you're the US of freaking A, you're better than this. Saying the gun deaths would just be replaced by knife deaths (again, I've never seen anything to support this) is just quitter talk. You should be aiming for better, not the mean.

To which I reply this is the US of A and I like the Bill of Rights the way it is.....unchanged. I shoot guns for a living, I carry one on my person when I go out, and there is always one by the bedside.

The threat of crime is statistically greater where I live(and I live there because that is where my job is)and I want the ability to defend myself against crime, whether it is theft or violent.

I work to many hours to just have all my possesions turned over to a theif, and I love my family to much to see anything bad ever happed to them. Banning guns just makes protecting all my things harder....not easier.

You just perfectly described the catch 22 the US finds itself in. It's easy for me to sit here in my safe apartment and say "no guns", not as easy when you live in a bit of a dangerous neighbourhood and that gun is the only thing that lets you sleep knowing you have a shot at protecting yourself, your property, maybe your wife and kids. I know that. That being said, the gun culture that exists now is because of that bloody 2nd amendment (and other factors, nothing is ever because of just one thing), and nothing will ever change, no cycle will ever be broken if you stop looking for better answers and just keep the status quo. Again, you're better than this. Your country is better than this. It's madness.

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dsmccracken

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#185 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

i like guns for real. Just cuz one idiot decides to kill it shouldnt be banned. Plus it is in the constitutionfreshgman

Again, so was slavery, that's why you have amendments.

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Tiefster

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#186 Tiefster
Member since 2005 • 14639 Posts
Shootings aren't getting more common, they just happen in clusters. It makes it seem bad but there are tons of individual heinous murders you don't hear about that don't involve fire arms.
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dsmccracken

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#187 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
Again, I'm not talking outright bans. The NRA is always saying no new laws, let's do better on enforcement of the existing ones. Well, why not take them up on that? Do it, be serious about it, more funding, make it work. No radical removals of guns from lawful citizens, just admit there's a problem and really tackle it. Move on to assault weapons. Keep your handguns and hunting rifles, but we can all get on board for the military assault junk, can't we? Limit the #s a dealer can sell to an individual, crack down on the dummy account sales. Take each step one by one. Keep your guns, but get sensible, and for the love of god get the NRA to stop gumming up even the most common sense steps.
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cool_baller

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#188 cool_baller
Member since 2003 • 12493 Posts

[QUOTE="freshgman"]i like guns for real. Just cuz one idiot decides to kill it shouldnt be banned. Plus it is in the constitutiondsmccracken

Again, so was slavery, that's why you have amendments.

Slavery wasn't in the Amendment. They left it out on purpose, because they couldn't come to a conclusion so they lets the States decide.
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dsmccracken

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#189 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="freshgman"]i like guns for real. Just cuz one idiot decides to kill it shouldnt be banned. Plus it is in the constitutioncool_baller

Again, so was slavery, that's why you have amendments.

Slavery wasn't in the Amendment. They left it out on purpose, because they couldn't come to a conclusion so they lets the States decide.

Slavery was indeed in an amendment, the 13th amendment to be exact.

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fidosim

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#190 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts
Banning guns would be unconstitutional and would only encourage mass bowing.
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ImaPirate0202

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#191 ImaPirate0202
Member since 2005 • 4473 Posts
Little girls running around shooting machine guns is what makes America so great.
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S34L

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#192 S34L
Member since 2008 • 160 Posts

[QUOTE="D9-THC"]What happens when we live in a totalitarian government and all of our rights to defend ourselves have been taken away? I bet you'd want a gun then...smokeydabear076
Yeah because legal or not bad people are going to get their hands on them somehow.

The Gov bans drugs and kids still get them. If a mad man starts shooting up the neighborhood, id like my Glock-21 at hand to stop him. Its because people dont have guns that the crazy person has a golden ticket for a killing spree.

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peppersfan2

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#193 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

Banning guns will not cause a major shift in the gun supply. Their are too many on the market.

People will make their own. Ever hear of Zip guns? Supply and demand.

Criminals arn't out to mass murder like the columbine kids a knife will fit their needs just right.

If I wanted to kill people as a kid but had no access to guns unless i get mental help I'm still in that killing mindset. Once I get older I would buy one on the street.

Ever hear of timmothy mcviegh?

Handguns are what is used in most gun related crimes not Civilian rifles copied after the M16. But for some reason they spend more time trying to ban rifles instead of handguns.

The guns used are often crappy small caliber weapons that you have never seen cuz they are not glamurous enough to be in a movie or rap video. They are often dirty .38 special revolvers over 20 years old. That is why the suplly won't dry up.

You sir are a facisct. It all comes down to what do you care more about safety or freeedom. I pick freedom

Guns are often used to prevent crimes as a deterent not as a weapon. You never hear in the news about the guy who drew his gun and scared off a robber without any fatalities cause thats not as headline grabbing as 32 dead!

Violence isn't new people. And people will only kill one or two people that they target for various reasons. Most murders are not of the postal worker variety. a gun will not change the death rates. Maybe mass shootings but those do not leave a notacble dent in the amount of gun deaths. They just provide emotional biased reactions like OMG BAN GUNS!


We could all take public transportation or bike to work! Ban alchohol! For the public good! Censor video games!

***** FACISTS ****** OFF!!!

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peppersfan2

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#194 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

Just to piss the gun haters off. After much thought I have finally decided what my first gun will be. I kept choosing different ones but I have finally settled on one that meets all my needs in a gun. Its lightwieght semiautomatic and can use M16 mags to AK-47 mags in just a few minutes. It also uses AK-74 ammuntion so all my bases are covered. It retails for $1400 The Magpul Masada!

Image:Magpul masada 16fde.jpg

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dooly420

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#195 dooly420
Member since 2005 • 8783 Posts
[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.dsmccracken
I drink, and recently quit smoking (knock on wood), so the hypocrite in me cries no to what I'm about to suggest: No more alcohol (pipe-dream, never happen of course), no more cigarettes, no more coke/ pot /heroin. Gone. Done. Whatever it takes. Nuke Columbia, Bolivia, where the junk is made, wipe it from the face of the earth along with anyone associated with it. Then wipe out their neighbours, their family, their pets. I'm exagerrating... about the pets, but I'm serious.

yeah, that wouldn't work. pot can grow wild in six out of seven continents. good luck trying to eradicate that.
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123625

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#196 123625
Member since 2006 • 9035 Posts
While don't think they should be completely banned. I think that they should be restricted to trustable people.
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peppersfan2

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#197 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

Again, I'm not talking outright bans. The NRA is always saying no new laws, let's do better on enforcement of the existing ones. Well, why not take them up on that? Do it, be serious about it, more funding, make it work. No radical removals of guns from lawful citizens, just admit there's a problem and really tackle it. Move on to assault weapons. Keep your handguns and hunting rifles, but we can all get on board for the military assault junk, can't we? Limit the #s a dealer can sell to an individual, crack down on the dummy account sales. Take each step one by one. Keep your guns, but get sensible, and for the love of god get the NRA to stop gumming up even the most common sense steps.dsmccracken


Assualt Weapons do not exist. It is a political term designed to make certain civilian rifles banned because they can't just come out and say ban all semi automatic.

It engenders public misconceptions about guns bluring the line between an assualt weapon and a assualt rifle a real term. Assualt weapons are just black and scary they are not any differnt than any other semiauto it is all just in appearences.

Assualt weapons cannot fire in full auto and cannot be readilly turned into full auto. They only have cosmetic similarities with real assualt rifles. I could do the same ammount of dammage with a pump action or a bolt action. Semi automatic doesn't make me that much more deadly.

Besides you said handguns were the problem not rifles. The only pistol that falls under the "assualt weapon" defintion are the Tec 9 and the Uzi and Mac 10 but in their semiautomatic format they are more unwieldly and akward than a glock or revolver because their only advantage full auto fire is gone. Instead you have a heavy weapon that won't shoot straight.

California has gun control almost as strict as the UK. We have a virtual ban on semi auto and you have to be creative to get one leagally. So does new york and chicago which banned handguns. We are limited to 10 rounds and cannot get "assualt weapons" unless the magazine or clip is permanitlly attached and unremovable. Which defeats the purpose when it takes longet to reload than a hunting rifle. But their are ways around this. (using a tool to remove the mag instead of fingers making it sill "fixed")

California Chicago San Francisco and New York and DC all have the strictist gun control outside of europe. Yet they are still very dangerous places. That doesn't stop people from sterotyping us as gun crazy americans even though we have a 10 day background check in California and don't give out carry licences. A gun control group gave california a A+ for its gun control yet it is still violent. Wonder why!?:roll:

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br0kenrabbit

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#198 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 16486 Posts
Guns save another innocent life.
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dbowman

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#199 dbowman
Member since 2005 • 6836 Posts

The TC is right, even if he did put it in a rather odd manner.

You Americans are so het up with your overly liberal ideas that you can't see its the cause of all your problems.

Being overly Liberal is the problem not the solution.

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ImaPirate0202

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#200 ImaPirate0202
Member since 2005 • 4473 Posts

The TC is right, even if he did put it in a rather odd manner.

You Americans are so het up with your overly liberal ideas that you can't see its the cause of all your problems.

Being overly Liberal is the problem not the solution.

dbowman

Owning guns is a foundation for which our country was built on. You really think were gonna let some soccer moms rally to ban guns?