America is going CRAZY...Time to Ban Guns

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mikel222222

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#101 mikel222222
Member since 2004 • 1162 Posts
[QUOTE="mikel222222"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="Yongying"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Yongying"] Fear, parents buy a gun thinking they could protect themselves with it, that was their first and biggest mistake, look what it lead to.-TheSecondSign-

Keep gun unloaded...and locked up. See? Simple.

What is the use of an unloaded gun that is locked up, if you buy it for protection in the first place? :|

You can load a gun with a magazine in less than a ten second period.

Even if you keep the magazine in a different area, and the gun in a locked case, you can have the weapon ready in less than twenty seconds. You just need to know how to operate it, and where everything is.

Have you ever operated a firearm, and if you have, to what extent?

and 20 seconds is enough time to some guy to bum rush you and shot you in the head. Have you ever broke into a house? and to what extent?

No, but I seriously doubt someone's going to rush straight to your room and blow your head off.
Even if you keep a gun, there are multiple ways to have a ready firearm.
May family has several. We know where they are and how to access them.

You don't even have to have it unloaded.

Your kid needs to understand how a gun works and what it does, and you clarify that they should never play with it with one twenty minute visit to a gun range. If you educate a kid, you can have a ready firearm.

And besides, my chances are much higher WITH THE GUN than not having one. The criminal coming to blow my head off will have his gun regardless of law.

I can have a fighting chance, but if you take that away, I'm a target.

Yes, some people do teach their kids right. But many many don't. no offense but lots of people are pretty stupid. And thats why you need tighter gun laws, or handgun bans. You can still keep your hunting rifle and such. Some states you can have full automatics, thats pretty excessive.

I have heard a thousand gun violence crimes(some could've been avoided) and how many times in my life time I've heard someone defending their family from a armed burglar? zero. I've seen it on movies and tv, but never on the news. I have known people in gun violence, have I ever meet someone thats has been saved from owning a gun? no.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But you have a better chance getting struck by lighting or winning the lottery(it happens every week) then to save your family with your gun.

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mikel222222

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#102 mikel222222
Member since 2004 • 1162 Posts
[QUOTE="mikel222222"]

More deaths occur from handguns then they prevent them. thats a fact! I don't have any guns, like 1% of the people i know handguns and thats it. My house and family are pretty safe.

What are you going to do when i guy is waiting beside your driveway with a hand gun and shoots you in the spine? how will you protect your family then?
How will you protect your family when your kids go to school, and some other kid comes to school with his fathers gun?

Maybe you should just live in a bullet proof bubble, and never go outside.

dlp21

I would like to point out that yes death is a consequence of using a handgun, I didn't know it saved lives. I think you were trying to state that more guns have been used to commit crimes then prevent them, and to that I would agree, because it is hard for the Average American to obtain a gun and carry it concieled then for a criminal to simply break the law and do what he wants.

And when I see a guy bearing down on me with a handgun, I will draw and shoot before he does, and just to make sure there is no confusion, I will put the entire clip in him.

And to a kid coming to the school and shooting it up, well I guess I will just take my chances, because I would rather take the slim chance, and I do mean slim, then forfit my right to own a firearm

haha, so the chances of some guy running down your street shooting is more likely to happen, then some kid shooting up a school? riiiiiight

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cool_baller

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#103 cool_baller
Member since 2003 • 12493 Posts
ANd take away our 2nd amendment rights? I think not.
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-TheSecondSign-

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#104 -TheSecondSign-
Member since 2007 • 9298 Posts
[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="mikel222222"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="Yongying"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Yongying"] Fear, parents buy a gun thinking they could protect themselves with it, that was their first and biggest mistake, look what it lead to.mikel222222

Keep gun unloaded...and locked up. See? Simple.

What is the use of an unloaded gun that is locked up, if you buy it for protection in the first place? :|

You can load a gun with a magazine in less than a ten second period.

Even if you keep the magazine in a different area, and the gun in a locked case, you can have the weapon ready in less than twenty seconds. You just need to know how to operate it, and where everything is.

Have you ever operated a firearm, and if you have, to what extent?

and 20 seconds is enough time to some guy to bum rush you and shot you in the head. Have you ever broke into a house? and to what extent?

No, but I seriously doubt someone's going to rush straight to your room and blow your head off.
Even if you keep a gun, there are multiple ways to have a ready firearm.
May family has several. We know where they are and how to access them.

You don't even have to have it unloaded.

Your kid needs to understand how a gun works and what it does, and you clarify that they should never play with it with one twenty minute visit to a gun range. If you educate a kid, you can have a ready firearm.

And besides, my chances are much higher WITH THE GUN than not having one. The criminal coming to blow my head off will have his gun regardless of law.

I can have a fighting chance, but if you take that away, I'm a target.

Yes, some people do teach their kids right. But many many don't. no offense but lots of people are pretty stupid. And thats why you need tighter gun laws, or handgun bans. You can still keep your hunting rifle and such. Some states you can have full automatics, thats pretty excessive.

I have heard a thousand gun violence crimes(some could've been avoided) and how many times in my life time I've heard someone defending their family from a armed burglar? zero. I've seen it on movies and tv, but never on the news. I have known people in gun violence, have I ever meet someone thats has been saved from owning a gun? no.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But you have a better chance getting struck by lighting or winning the lottery(it happens every week) then to save your family with your gun.

Tighter gun control laws would hardly help.

Criminals who own guns get them illegally. You might stop some child shootings by making it harder to own a handgun, but acting like banning guns would solve much is ridiculous.

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Wetall_basic

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#105 Wetall_basic
Member since 2003 • 4086 Posts
[QUOTE="Wetall_basic"]How would banning guns help? Instead of registered and traceable guns we'll have untraceable shootings because everything will be illegal. It's not going to stop violent crimes anyway,people who wish to kill other people will simple take a kitchen knife to school,or the'll take a chainsaw,or the'll take a homemade explosive device or any number of other weapons that will kill people.

Guns are simply a means to an end. The problem is the number of people that WANT to kill,not the number of weapons available to full fill that desire.smokeydabear076
What!? I thought banning guns would mean that everybody would follow the rules and all the guns would disappear and no one would ever touch one again! And we would all live happily forever after.



True,I never thought about it like that. Perhap a magical world of wonderment will spring up with the absense of guns. Good lord,we must ban guns now!
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DrGregis

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#107 DrGregis
Member since 2007 • 91 Posts
I support the second amendment, and even if it were taken away, how do you propose we take away all those guns from the people?
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Manly-manly-man

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#108 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="mikel222222"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="Yongying"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Yongying"] Fear, parents buy a gun thinking they could protect themselves with it, that was their first and biggest mistake, look what it lead to.mikel222222

Keep gun unloaded...and locked up. See? Simple.

What is the use of an unloaded gun that is locked up, if you buy it for protection in the first place? :|

You can load a gun with a magazine in less than a ten second period.

Even if you keep the magazine in a different area, and the gun in a locked case, you can have the weapon ready in less than twenty seconds. You just need to know how to operate it, and where everything is.

Have you ever operated a firearm, and if you have, to what extent?

and 20 seconds is enough time to some guy to bum rush you and shot you in the head. Have you ever broke into a house? and to what extent?

No, but I seriously doubt someone's going to rush straight to your room and blow your head off.
Even if you keep a gun, there are multiple ways to have a ready firearm.
May family has several. We know where they are and how to access them.

You don't even have to have it unloaded.

Your kid needs to understand how a gun works and what it does, and you clarify that they should never play with it with one twenty minute visit to a gun range. If you educate a kid, you can have a ready firearm.

And besides, my chances are much higher WITH THE GUN than not having one. The criminal coming to blow my head off will have his gun regardless of law.

I can have a fighting chance, but if you take that away, I'm a target.

Yes, some people do teach their kids right. But many many don't. no offense but lots of people are pretty stupid. And thats why you need tighter gun laws, or handgun bans. You can still keep your hunting rifle and such. Some states you can have full automatics, thats pretty excessive.

I have heard a thousand gun violence crimes(some could've been avoided) and how many times in my life time I've heard someone defending their family from a armed burglar? zero. I've seen it on movies and tv, but never on the news. I have known people in gun violence, have I ever meet someone thats has been saved from owning a gun? no.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But you have a better chance getting struck by lighting or winning the lottery(it happens every week) then to save your family with your gun.

You also have a better chance of getting struck by lightning then you do being shot in the first place. Statistics play absolutely no role in this argument. Guns don't kill many people. That's a fact. Car crashes and stabbing kill many times more people then shooting. Making guns illegal won't stop criminals from getting them. That is another absolute fact. There is only ONE LOGICAL SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM. And that is education.

First off, people who purchase guns need to have gone through training. This is not the current law, and needs to be changed. This will vastly reduce the number of accidents. And as far as parents go, they are the major problem.

Parents buy guns, and then they hide them from their children. That is the worst thing you could possibly do. If you teach your child how to shoot a gun, or at least what a gun can do and proper gun safety, the subject won't be taboo and they won't have any interest in taking the gun. Kids do things they aren't allowed to do. If they are allowed to do something, they aren't too interested. These parents hide the guns from the kids, and in turn the kids seek out the guns, and when found, they don't know any gun safety. That's the major problem.

And another problem parents have is not locking the guns up. If a student kills someone with a gun, it is absolutely 100% the parents fault. If you lock up the gun, there is NO WAY the kid is going to take it. End of story.

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mikel222222

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#109 mikel222222
Member since 2004 • 1162 Posts
[QUOTE="mikel222222"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="mikel222222"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="Yongying"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Yongying"] Fear, parents buy a gun thinking they could protect themselves with it, that was their first and biggest mistake, look what it lead to.-TheSecondSign-

Keep gun unloaded...and locked up. See? Simple.

What is the use of an unloaded gun that is locked up, if you buy it for protection in the first place? :|

You can load a gun with a magazine in less than a ten second period.

Even if you keep the magazine in a different area, and the gun in a locked case, you can have the weapon ready in less than twenty seconds. You just need to know how to operate it, and where everything is.

Have you ever operated a firearm, and if you have, to what extent?

and 20 seconds is enough time to some guy to bum rush you and shot you in the head. Have you ever broke into a house? and to what extent?

No, but I seriously doubt someone's going to rush straight to your room and blow your head off.
Even if you keep a gun, there are multiple ways to have a ready firearm.
May family has several. We know where they are and how to access them.

You don't even have to have it unloaded.

Your kid needs to understand how a gun works and what it does, and you clarify that they should never play with it with one twenty minute visit to a gun range. If you educate a kid, you can have a ready firearm.

And besides, my chances are much higher WITH THE GUN than not having one. The criminal coming to blow my head off will have his gun regardless of law.

I can have a fighting chance, but if you take that away, I'm a target.

Yes, some people do teach their kids right. But many many don't. no offense but lots of people are pretty stupid. And thats why you need tighter gun laws, or handgun bans. You can still keep your hunting rifle and such. Some states you can have full automatics, thats pretty excessive.

I have heard a thousand gun violence crimes(some could've been avoided) and how many times in my life time I've heard someone defending their family from a armed burglar? zero. I've seen it on movies and tv, but never on the news. I have known people in gun violence, have I ever meet someone thats has been saved from owning a gun? no.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But you have a better chance getting struck by lighting or winning the lottery(it happens every week) then to save your family with your gun.

Tighter gun control laws would hardly help.

Criminals who own guns get them illegally. You might stop some child shootings by making it harder to own a handgun, but acting like banning guns would solve much is ridiculous.

Just harder to get them. Like you have to take a course about guns, and so on. Maybe cut the fingers of gun violence offencers would work.

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smokeydabear076

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#110 smokeydabear076
Member since 2004 • 22109 Posts
[QUOTE="smokeydabear076"][QUOTE="Wetall_basic"]How would banning guns help? Instead of registered and traceable guns we'll have untraceable shootings because everything will be illegal. It's not going to stop violent crimes anyway,people who wish to kill other people will simple take a kitchen knife to school,or the'll take a chainsaw,or the'll take a homemade explosive device or any number of other weapons that will kill people.

Guns are simply a means to an end. The problem is the number of people that WANT to kill,not the number of weapons available to full fill that desire.Wetall_basic
What!? I thought banning guns would mean that everybody would follow the rules and all the guns would disappear and no one would ever touch one again! And we would all live happily forever after.



True,I never thought about it like that. Perhap a magical world of wonderment will spring up with the absense of guns. Good lord,we must ban guns now!

See, it's simple people. All we have to do is say please don't use guns and the world will be safe!
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-TheSecondSign-

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#111 -TheSecondSign-
Member since 2007 • 9298 Posts
[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="mikel222222"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="mikel222222"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="Yongying"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Yongying"] Fear, parents buy a gun thinking they could protect themselves with it, that was their first and biggest mistake, look what it lead to.mikel222222

Keep gun unloaded...and locked up. See? Simple.

What is the use of an unloaded gun that is locked up, if you buy it for protection in the first place? :|

You can load a gun with a magazine in less than a ten second period.

Even if you keep the magazine in a different area, and the gun in a locked case, you can have the weapon ready in less than twenty seconds. You just need to know how to operate it, and where everything is.

Have you ever operated a firearm, and if you have, to what extent?

and 20 seconds is enough time to some guy to bum rush you and shot you in the head. Have you ever broke into a house? and to what extent?

No, but I seriously doubt someone's going to rush straight to your room and blow your head off.
Even if you keep a gun, there are multiple ways to have a ready firearm.
May family has several. We know where they are and how to access them.

You don't even have to have it unloaded.

Your kid needs to understand how a gun works and what it does, and you clarify that they should never play with it with one twenty minute visit to a gun range. If you educate a kid, you can have a ready firearm.

And besides, my chances are much higher WITH THE GUN than not having one. The criminal coming to blow my head off will have his gun regardless of law.

I can have a fighting chance, but if you take that away, I'm a target.

Yes, some people do teach their kids right. But many many don't. no offense but lots of people are pretty stupid. And thats why you need tighter gun laws, or handgun bans. You can still keep your hunting rifle and such. Some states you can have full automatics, thats pretty excessive.

I have heard a thousand gun violence crimes(some could've been avoided) and how many times in my life time I've heard someone defending their family from a armed burglar? zero. I've seen it on movies and tv, but never on the news. I have known people in gun violence, have I ever meet someone thats has been saved from owning a gun? no.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But you have a better chance getting struck by lighting or winning the lottery(it happens every week) then to save your family with your gun.

Tighter gun control laws would hardly help.

Criminals who own guns get them illegally. You might stop some child shootings by making it harder to own a handgun, but acting like banning guns would solve much is ridiculous.

Just harder to get them. Like you have to take a course about guns, and so on. Maybe cut the fingers of gun violence offencers would work.

That would mean they can't work.
If you make it where they can't pull a trigger, they won't try to find honest work. They'll dive back into criminal work because that would be what they can do.

If a person shoots another person, there should always be heavier penalties. Younger people can get off sometimes with very minor penalties.

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-TheSecondSign-

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#112 -TheSecondSign-
Member since 2007 • 9298 Posts

[QUOTE="Wetall_basic"][QUOTE="smokeydabear076"][QUOTE="Wetall_basic"]How would banning guns help? Instead of registered and traceable guns we'll have untraceable shootings because everything will be illegal. It's not going to stop violent crimes anyway,people who wish to kill other people will simple take a kitchen knife to school,or the'll take a chainsaw,or the'll take a homemade explosive device or any number of other weapons that will kill people.

Guns are simply a means to an end. The problem is the number of people that WANT to kill,not the number of weapons available to full fill that desire.smokeydabear076
What!? I thought banning guns would mean that everybody would follow the rules and all the guns would disappear and no one would ever touch one again! And we would all live happily forever after.



True,I never thought about it like that. Perhap a magical world of wonderment will spring up with the absense of guns. Good lord,we must ban guns now!

See, it's simple people. All we have to do is say please don't use guns and the world will be safe!

Yeah! And we can ask those people who make explosive, toxic meth labs in neighborhoods to stop and maybe they'll stop and drugs will stop being a problem!

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Aeronautical

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#113 Aeronautical
Member since 2005 • 2039 Posts

You also have a better chance of getting struck by lightning then you do being shot in the first place. Statistics play absolutely no role in this argument. Guns don't kill many people. That's a fact. Car crashes and stabbing kill many times more people then shooting. Making guns illegal won't stop criminals from getting them. That is another absolute fact. There is only ONE LOGICAL SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM. And that is education.

First off, people who purchase guns need to have gone through training. This is not the current law, and needs to be changed. This will vastly reduce the number of accidents. And as far as parents go, they are the major problem.

Parents buy guns, and then they hide them from their children. That is the worst thing you could possibly do. If you teach your child how to shoot a gun, or at least what a gun can do and proper gun safety, the subject won't be taboo and they won't have any interest in taking the gun. Kids do things they aren't allowed to do. If they are allowed to do something, they aren't too interested. These parents hide the guns from the kids, and in turn the kids seek out the guns, and when found, they don't know any gun safety. That's the major problem.

And another problem parents have is not locking the guns up. If a student kills someone with a gun, it is absolutely 100% the parents fault. If you lock up the gun, there is NO WAY the kid is going to take it. End of story.

Manly-manly-man
I agree that parents need to educate their kids. My dad taught me how to handle weapons since I was 12: "Always assume the gun is loaded (never point it at something you aren't willing to shoot), after checking the chamber and magazine 3 times" It's being taught that guns are a huge responsibility and need respect when being used.
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mikel222222

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#114 mikel222222
Member since 2004 • 1162 Posts
After the terrorist act, America has no rights at all. All they have to say is "we think you are a terrorist" and they can search anything, tap into your phone lines, do whatever they want.
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Tjeremiah1988

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#115 Tjeremiah1988
Member since 2003 • 16665 Posts
can someone give me a recap of what has happened these past couple of weeks? I havent been paying attention to all the shootings but another school shooting again?! Jeez.
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#116 wemhim
Member since 2005 • 16110 Posts
[QUOTE="Yongying"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Yongying"]:roll: i am blaming guns, hear about the 6 year old kid who bought a gun and shot another 6 year old kid? he had no clue what he was doing. Just imitating some cartoon he saw on tv.LJS9502_basic

No 6 year old legally purchased a gun...and if a 6 year old had the gun...the blame is the parents...not the gun.

1 thing doesn't take another away, look for someone to blame all you want, at the end of the day, a girl died because of a gun.

No...due to a lack of supervision.

And someone who is bad at hiding things. I mean, is a safe so hard to purchase? The closet has proved itself to not be the greatest hiding place for a gun, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to find it(I'm not speaking of the case with this said 6 year old, I'm talking about in general). And you can't really BAN guns, since they will still exist. You have to actually make it so people don't know how to make guns, AKA mind control, good luck with that.
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CaptHawkeye

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#117 CaptHawkeye
Member since 2004 • 13977 Posts


There is another mass shooting, it seems that every week now theres some gunman going crazy.. and it is getting more common.

America is in a war of itself. This country is starting to become really screwed up. When was the last time you have seen a dad teaches his 8yr old girl how to shoot a 50 caliber machine gun?

All these people say "No War!" but yet they turn around and teaches their little girl how to shoot a machine gun? WTF

Media needs to stop promoting violence. And ban guns. For anyone who wants to obtain guns they need to go through testing, similar to getting a drivers license but much harder.

This way things like this doesn't happen.xTw1st4x

I bet it feels really awesome to be an attention whoring vulture doesn't it? :roll:

Yeah, you can look all "kind hearted" and thoughful when you put on an act of supposed emotion, too ****ing bad some of us aren't dumb enough to fall for it.

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jd7-03

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#118 jd7-03
Member since 2003 • 6140 Posts

If nobody has guns nobody gets shot.Brainkiller05

Oh sure...Thats why Washington D.C has a gun ban in effect yet its the murder capital of the United States. Criminals will always have guns, and its not the sportsmen / hunters commiting these horrible acts.

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KG86

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#119 KG86
Member since 2007 • 6021 Posts

America has a serious gun problem but I get the impression that people don't care.SolidSnake35

I agree

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mikel222222

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#120 mikel222222
Member since 2004 • 1162 Posts

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]If nobody has guns nobody gets shot.jd7-03

Oh sure...Thats why Washington D.C has a gun ban in effect yet its the murder capital of the United States. Criminals will always have guns, and its not the sportsmen / hunters commiting these horrible acts.

takes a lot of time, won't just happen in a few years. and plus, criminals can just go to other states...

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espoac

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#121 espoac
Member since 2005 • 4219 Posts

Banning guns will only create a profitable black market for them. What we should do is sell all sorts of guns legally(while taxing the hell out of them) and then force people to do 1 or 2hours of safety training with them.

The only real way to stop crime is to increase legal options to a prosperous life not take away freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

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CaptHawkeye

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#122 CaptHawkeye
Member since 2004 • 13977 Posts

I'm quite tired of this poorly thought, over-simplistic approach people seem to believe is the answer to this problem. "LOL BAN GUNZ." Yeah, let's be totally impulsive over issues like this. That helps a lot.

But hey, at least your hearts are in the right place. The problem is, you're barking up the wrong tree. Since blaming this issue on gun control is just a red herring. America's "Culture of Violence" is the root of the issue. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand.

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Manly-manly-man

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#123 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Yongying"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Yongying"]:roll: i am blaming guns, hear about the 6 year old kid who bought a gun and shot another 6 year old kid? he had no clue what he was doing. Just imitating some cartoon he saw on tv.wemhim

No 6 year old legally purchased a gun...and if a 6 year old had the gun...the blame is the parents...not the gun.

1 thing doesn't take another away, look for someone to blame all you want, at the end of the day, a girl died because of a gun.

No...due to a lack of supervision.

And someone who is bad at hiding things. I mean, is a safe so hard to purchase? The closet has proved itself to not be the greatest hiding place for a gun, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to find it(I'm not speaking of the case with this said 6 year old, I'm talking about in general).

A safe isn't the best solution. The first thing that would stop the majority of accidental deaths is education. For **** sake, teach your kids about gun safety. Don't make it a taboo issue.If you buy a gun, take it shooting, put it to use. At the same time, take your **** kids, teach them gun safety, make it a normal thing. If it's a normal thing, they won't look to do it. Also, just for the record, more residents having guns would decrease crime. Criminals LOVE gun control laws, because it doesn't apply to them. It oppresses the citizen's right to defend themselves, and thus the criminals have nothing to worry about. If more people had guns, less criminals would attack them. If half of the population had guns, a criminal would have a 50-50 chance of being shot, and no one likes those laws. Take away the citizen's guns, and the criminal has no worries, and will commit more crimes. Let's even take it to the extreme. Let's say half of the students at Columbine had guns. Once the shooting started, guess what would have happened? The Columbine shooters would be blown full of holes, and a lot less kids would've died. Obviously that's extreme, but apply that to resteraunts, 7-11s, etc.

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Napster06

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#124 Napster06
Member since 2004 • 5659 Posts
Sometimes things like this makes me think twice about going to the States
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dsmccracken

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#125 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

Banning guns will only create a profitable black market for them. What we should do is sell all sorts of guns legally(while taxing the hell out of them) and then force people to do 1 or 2hours of safety training with them.

The only real way to stop crime is to increase legal options to a prosperous life not take away freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

espoac

The Constitution has been wrong before. It has been amended before. Rethinking the 2nd does not mean the end of the world, or that America is a failure or something. Why do gun defenders always bring up the "taking away freedoms" and hide behind the Constitution, like society (even American society) isn't bloody FULL of little common-sense curtailments of your freedoms. Seatbelts, hardhats on construction sites, smoking in public places (in some locales), fire ordinances, all technically "taking away" freedoms in the name of public safety. 30,000 deaths a year is a public safety issue whether the NRA wants to admit it or not.

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dsmccracken

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#126 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

Criminals LOVE gun control laws, because it doesn't apply to them.

Manly-manly-man

Actually, limiting legal guns to citizens means limiting them to criminals, since so many of the guns on the street are stolen guns that were once legal. Also, gun control limits the crap that gun dealers engage in that puts so many guns in the hands of criminals, e.g. overselling guns to lone individuals, guns to dummy accounts.

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Manly-manly-man

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#127 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="espoac"]

Banning guns will only create a profitable black market for them. What we should do is sell all sorts of guns legally(while taxing the hell out of them) and then force people to do 1 or 2hours of safety training with them.

The only real way to stop crime is to increase legal options to a prosperous life not take away freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

dsmccracken

The Constitution has been wrong before. It has been amended before. Rethinking the 2nd does not mean the end of the world, or that America is a failure or something. Why do gun defenders always bring up the "taking away freedoms" and hide behind the Constitution, like society (even American society) isn't bloody FULL of little common-sense curtailments of your freedoms. Seatbelts, hardhats on construction sites, smoking in public places (in some locales), fire ordinances, all technically "taking away" freedoms in the name of public safety. 30,000 deaths a year is a public safety issue whether the NRA wants to admit it or not.

Banning guns will not lower that number, it will increase it. Criminals LOVE gun laws, because they don't obey them. Criminals will always have guns. If you take away the citizen's guns, criminal have an easier time. The more people with guns, the more criminals get shot, the less criminals commit crimes.

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Manly-manly-man

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#128 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts

[QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

Criminals LOVE gun control laws, because it doesn't apply to them.

dsmccracken

Actually, limiting legal guns to citizens means limiting them to criminals, since so many of the guns on the street are stolen guns that were once legal. Also, gun control limits the crap that gun dealers engage in that puts so many guns in the hands of criminals, e.g. overselling guns to lone individuals, guns to dummy accounts.

Most criminals get guns illegally. That doesn't mean just stealing them. And the guns criminals have will always be there, and the guns citizens have won't be able to be taken away.

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dsmccracken

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#129 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

It oppresses the citizen's right to defend themselves, and thus the criminals have nothing to worry about. If more people had guns, less criminals would attack them. If half of the population had guns, a criminal would have a 50-50 chance of being shot, and no one likes those laws. Take away the citizen's guns, and the criminal has no worries, and will commit more crimes. Let's even take it to the extreme.

Manly-manly-man

This kind of logic sounds great on paper (or forums). In practice, however, other civilized nations WITH gun control haven't suffered from the unchecked crime you seem to be implying would be the result of such control measures in the US. This is misdirection by gun apologists that sounds great but is false.

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Manly-manly-man

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#130 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

Criminals LOVE gun control laws, because it doesn't apply to them.

Manly-manly-man

Actually, limiting legal guns to citizens means limiting them to criminals, since so many of the guns on the street are stolen guns that were once legal. Also, gun control limits the crap that gun dealers engage in that puts so many guns in the hands of criminals, e.g. overselling guns to lone individuals, guns to dummy accounts.

Most criminals get guns illegally. That doesn't mean just stealing them. And the guns criminals have will always be there, and the guns citizens have won't be able to be taken away.

Just to elaborate:

Criminals won't give their guns away because of a law. Citizens will. That means at LEAST the same number of criminals will have guns, and less citizens will. That means criminals are safer, which means they will be more bold. No matter how you think about it, banning guns gives more power to criminals.

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Manly-manly-man

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#131 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

It oppresses the citizen's right to defend themselves, and thus the criminals have nothing to worry about. If more people had guns, less criminals would attack them. If half of the population had guns, a criminal would have a 50-50 chance of being shot, and no one likes those laws. Take away the citizen's guns, and the criminal has no worries, and will commit more crimes. Let's even take it to the extreme.

dsmccracken

This kind of logic sounds great on paper (or forums). In practice, however, other civilized nations WITH gun control haven't suffered from the unchecked crime you seem to be implying would be the result of such control measures in the US. This is misdirection by gun apologists that sounds great but is false.

That's because they never had guns to begin with. The US is a different story.

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wemhim

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#132 wemhim
Member since 2005 • 16110 Posts
[QUOTE="wemhim"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Yongying"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Yongying"]:roll: i am blaming guns, hear about the 6 year old kid who bought a gun and shot another 6 year old kid? he had no clue what he was doing. Just imitating some cartoon he saw on tv.Manly-manly-man

No 6 year old legally purchased a gun...and if a 6 year old had the gun...the blame is the parents...not the gun.

1 thing doesn't take another away, look for someone to blame all you want, at the end of the day, a girl died because of a gun.

No...due to a lack of supervision.

And someone who is bad at hiding things. I mean, is a safe so hard to purchase? The closet has proved itself to not be the greatest hiding place for a gun, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to find it(I'm not speaking of the case with this said 6 year old, I'm talking about in general).

A safe isn't the best solution. The first thing that would stop the majority of accidental deaths is education. For **** sake, teach your kids about gun safety. Don't make it a taboo issue.If you buy a gun, take it shooting, put it to use. At the same time, take your **** kids, teach them gun safety, make it a normal thing. If it's a normal thing, they won't look to do it. Also, just for the record, more residents having guns would decrease crime. Criminals LOVE gun control laws, because it doesn't apply to them. It oppresses the citizen's right to defend themselves, and thus the criminals have nothing to worry about. If more people had guns, less criminals would attack them. If half of the population had guns, a criminal would have a 50-50 chance of being shot, and no one likes those laws. Take away the citizen's guns, and the criminal has no worries, and will commit more crimes. Let's even take it to the extreme. Let's say half of the students at Columbine had guns. Once the shooting started, guess what would have happened? The Columbine shooters would be blown full of holes, and a lot less kids would've died. Obviously that's extreme, but apply that to resteraunts, 7-11s, etc.

You're right. And unlike some stupid people(Parents of 6 year olds who shoot eachother), I know I'm not fit to have kids. Some people need to know this.
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dlp21

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#133 dlp21
Member since 2003 • 2116 Posts
[QUOTE="espoac"]

Banning guns will only create a profitable black market for them. What we should do is sell all sorts of guns legally(while taxing the hell out of them) and then force people to do 1 or 2hours of safety training with them.

The only real way to stop crime is to increase legal options to a prosperous life not take away freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

dsmccracken

The Constitution has been wrong before. It has been amended before. Rethinking the 2nd does not mean the end of the world, or that America is a failure or something. Why do gun defenders always bring up the "taking away freedoms" and hide behind the Constitution, like society (even American society) isn't bloody FULL of little common-sense curtailments of your freedoms. Seatbelts, hardhats on construction sites, smoking in public places (in some locales), fire ordinances, all technically "taking away" freedoms in the name of public safety. 30,000 deaths a year is a public safety issue whether the NRA wants to admit it or not.

Actually, of the original Ten Constitutional Amendments, also known as the Bill of Rights, not one has been ammended against

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dsmccracken

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#134 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

Banning guns will not lower that number, it will increase it. Criminals LOVE gun laws, because they don't obey them. Criminals will always have guns. If you take away the citizen's guns, criminal have an easier time. The more people with guns, the more criminals get shot, the less criminals commit crimes.

Manly-manly-man

How do you know what criminals do and do not love? Criminals will always have access to guns to some extent, but do you have to make it so easy, so plentiful for them? On your last point, 30,000 gun deaths every year... believe the numbers if not me, criminals are not the only ones dying. As for you point about criminals getting guns illegally, there is not one way that they are getting these illegal guns that would not be affected by gun control, either directly or indirectly. These guns all start off legal, made in a factory, not a back alley. Somewhere along the manufacturing to dealing to owning chain, they get off course and become illegal. Gun control can help this, I don't see how you can deny this.

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dsmccracken

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#135 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="espoac"]

Banning guns will only create a profitable black market for them. What we should do is sell all sorts of guns legally(while taxing the hell out of them) and then force people to do 1 or 2hours of safety training with them.

The only real way to stop crime is to increase legal options to a prosperous life not take away freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

dlp21

The Constitution has been wrong before. It has been amended before. Rethinking the 2nd does not mean the end of the world, or that America is a failure or something. Why do gun defenders always bring up the "taking away freedoms" and hide behind the Constitution, like society (even American society) isn't bloody FULL of little common-sense curtailments of your freedoms. Seatbelts, hardhats on construction sites, smoking in public places (in some locales), fire ordinances, all technically "taking away" freedoms in the name of public safety. 30,000 deaths a year is a public safety issue whether the NRA wants to admit it or not.

Actually, of the original Ten Constitutional Amendments, also known as the Bill of Rights, not one has been ammended against

I don't get your point... the first ten amendments are AMENDMENTS, alterations to the Constitution thought necessary. As were the amendments that came later, like the 13th. So?

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Manly-manly-man

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#136 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

Banning guns will not lower that number, it will increase it. Criminals LOVE gun laws, because they don't obey them. Criminals will always have guns. If you take away the citizen's guns, criminal have an easier time. The more people with guns, the more criminals get shot, the less criminals commit crimes.

dsmccracken

How do you know what criminals do and do not love? Criminals will always have access to guns to some extent, but do you have to make it so easy, so plentiful for them? On your last point, 30,000 gun deaths every year... believe the numbers if not me, criminals are not the only ones dying. As for you point about criminals getting guns illegally, there is not one way that they are getting these illegal guns that would not be affected by gun control, either directly or indirectly. These guns all start off legal, made in a factory, not a back alley. Somewhere along the manufacturing to dealing to owning chain, they get off course and become illegal. Gun control can help this, I don't see how you can deny this.

The factories won't shut down if guns are banned, you know. And like I said, it won't remove guns from criminals, only civilians, which still gives more power to criminals. It is not a viable solution. And I say criminals love gun control because criminals say they love gun control...

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wemhim

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#137 wemhim
Member since 2005 • 16110 Posts
[QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

Banning guns will not lower that number, it will increase it. Criminals LOVE gun laws, because they don't obey them. Criminals will always have guns. If you take away the citizen's guns, criminal have an easier time. The more people with guns, the more criminals get shot, the less criminals commit crimes.

dsmccracken

How do you know what criminals do and do not love? Criminals will always have access to guns to some extent, but do you have to make it so easy, so plentiful for them? On your last point, 30,000 gun deaths every year... believe the numbers if not me, criminals are not the only ones dying. As for you point about criminals getting guns illegally, there is not one way that they are getting these illegal guns that would not be affected by gun control, either directly or indirectly. These guns all start off legal, made in a factory, not a back alley. Somewhere along the manufacturing to dealing to owning chain, they get off course and become illegal. Gun control can help this, I don't see how you can deny this.

Criminals love prohibiting laws, do you think they were going, "YIPPEE!" In 33' when Prohibition ended? No. Just like Charlie Lucciano or Frank Lucas wouldn't have been happy if Heroin prohibition ended, that would mean no more heroin dealers.
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Luminouslight

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#138 Luminouslight
Member since 2007 • 6397 Posts

Just making guns illegal isn't going to get rid of guns.

That and you would have to amend the constitution and there is no way you can do it with even a small amount of Republicans in Congress.

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SeanUD1

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#139 SeanUD1
Member since 2007 • 812 Posts
I say the army equips us all with firearms that way we can all take each other out and be protected at the same time...lolz
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dooly420

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#140 dooly420
Member since 2005 • 8783 Posts
[QUOTE="smokeydabear076"]

When was the last time you have seen a dad teaches his 8yr old girl how to shoot a 50 caliber machine gun?

Never.

skinnypete91

Well... I have actually seen a video of that :?

Sounds strange but I remember it quite well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MVXd-OdQrI
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dsmccracken

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#141 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

It oppresses the citizen's right to defend themselves, and thus the criminals have nothing to worry about. If more people had guns, less criminals would attack them. If half of the population had guns, a criminal would have a 50-50 chance of being shot, and no one likes those laws. Take away the citizen's guns, and the criminal has no worries, and will commit more crimes. Let's even take it to the extreme.

Manly-manly-man

This kind of logic sounds great on paper (or forums). In practice, however, other civilized nations WITH gun control haven't suffered from the unchecked crime you seem to be implying would be the result of such control measures in the US. This is misdirection by gun apologists that sounds great but is false.

That's because they never had guns to begin with. The US is a different story.

Ah, now I see your point. You are correct, for awhile, there will be a disconnect, growing pains, it could be bad for awhile, but then it's not exactly a peach now. But a first step must always be taken, your country is trapped in a cycle that it can't get out of. Every year, gun sales increase faster than your bloody population... red flag, that is. No product, guns or anything else, lasts forever. Every criminal arrested and gun confiscated is one less, if there is no new supply for the criminals to rearm, only then can things change.

And you are wrong. Canada does have guns. Illegal guns. They come, for the most part, from the US. Thanks for that. Even still, our gun-related deaths are nowhere near yours, not even as a ratio per 100000 people.

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Wet_Sand

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#142 Wet_Sand
Member since 2007 • 1504 Posts
I live in Oxnard, one of the towns where the school shootings occured. All schools need metal detectors, this is getting ridiculous.
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Manly-manly-man

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#143 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

Banning guns will not lower that number, it will increase it. Criminals LOVE gun laws, because they don't obey them. Criminals will always have guns. If you take away the citizen's guns, criminal have an easier time. The more people with guns, the more criminals get shot, the less criminals commit crimes.

wemhim

How do you know what criminals do and do not love? Criminals will always have access to guns to some extent, but do you have to make it so easy, so plentiful for them? On your last point, 30,000 gun deaths every year... believe the numbers if not me, criminals are not the only ones dying. As for you point about criminals getting guns illegally, there is not one way that they are getting these illegal guns that would not be affected by gun control, either directly or indirectly. These guns all start off legal, made in a factory, not a back alley. Somewhere along the manufacturing to dealing to owning chain, they get off course and become illegal. Gun control can help this, I don't see how you can deny this.

Criminals love prohibiting laws, do you think they were going, "YIPPEE!" In 33' when Prohibition ended? No. Just like Charlie Lucciano or Frank Lucas wouldn't have been happy if Heroin prohibition ended, that would mean no more heroin dealers.

Speaking of Frank Lucas, American Gangster is a great movie.

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shoeman12

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#144 shoeman12
Member since 2005 • 8744 Posts

do you really think that would stop criminals? they hardly get guns through legal means anywsys, banning guns would only hurt the people that want to defend themselves. since there have been more concealed pistol licenses in michigan, gun deaths have actually gone down. or washington d.c, there are gun control laws there yet it has a high crime rate.

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Manly-manly-man

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#145 Manly-manly-man
Member since 2006 • 3477 Posts
[QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

It oppresses the citizen's right to defend themselves, and thus the criminals have nothing to worry about. If more people had guns, less criminals would attack them. If half of the population had guns, a criminal would have a 50-50 chance of being shot, and no one likes those laws. Take away the citizen's guns, and the criminal has no worries, and will commit more crimes. Let's even take it to the extreme.

dsmccracken

This kind of logic sounds great on paper (or forums). In practice, however, other civilized nations WITH gun control haven't suffered from the unchecked crime you seem to be implying would be the result of such control measures in the US. This is misdirection by gun apologists that sounds great but is false.

That's because they never had guns to begin with. The US is a different story.

Ah, now I see your point. You are correct, for awhile, there will be a disconnect, growing pains, it could be bad for awhile, but then it's not exactly a peach now. But a first step must always be taken, your country is trapped in a cycle that it can't get out of. Every year, gun sales increase faster than your bloody population... red flag, that is. No product, guns or anything else, lasts forever. Every criminal arrested and gun confiscated is one less, if there is no new supply, only then can things change.

And you are wrong. Canada does have guns. Illegal guns. They come, for the most part, from the US. Thanks for that. Even still, our gun-related deaths are nowhere near yours, not even as a ratio per 100000 people.

I agree, something needs to change, but a first step is NOT banning guns. And I didn't mean they didn't have guns at all, I meant they didn't have a large population of guns, and more and more guns being produced constantly. I believe one gun every 3 seconds...

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wemhim

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#146 wemhim
Member since 2005 • 16110 Posts
[QUOTE="wemhim"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

Banning guns will not lower that number, it will increase it. Criminals LOVE gun laws, because they don't obey them. Criminals will always have guns. If you take away the citizen's guns, criminal have an easier time. The more people with guns, the more criminals get shot, the less criminals commit crimes.

Manly-manly-man

How do you know what criminals do and do not love? Criminals will always have access to guns to some extent, but do you have to make it so easy, so plentiful for them? On your last point, 30,000 gun deaths every year... believe the numbers if not me, criminals are not the only ones dying. As for you point about criminals getting guns illegally, there is not one way that they are getting these illegal guns that would not be affected by gun control, either directly or indirectly. These guns all start off legal, made in a factory, not a back alley. Somewhere along the manufacturing to dealing to owning chain, they get off course and become illegal. Gun control can help this, I don't see how you can deny this.

Criminals love prohibiting laws, do you think they were going, "YIPPEE!" In 33' when Prohibition ended? No. Just like Charlie Lucciano or Frank Lucas wouldn't have been happy if Heroin prohibition ended, that would mean no more heroin dealers.

Speaking of Frank Lucas, American Gangster is a great movie.

Yeah, not enough crime movies these days.
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madmidnight

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#147 madmidnight
Member since 2004 • 2066 Posts
Japan doesn't have guns and they have the lowest violent crime rate in the world I believe, so yes I am for banning them.
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dlp21

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#148 dlp21
Member since 2003 • 2116 Posts

UK badded private ownership of most handguns in 1997, previoysly held by an estimated 57,000 people -0.1% of the population. Since 1998, the number of people injured by firearms in England and Wales has more than doubled, despite a massive increase in the number of police personnel.

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proctorsurf

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#149 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts
if anything .... we should ban pharmaceutical drugs. Every shooter.. such as the Columbine kids... VT shooter... all on prescription drugs... Some may disagree.. and hey if they work for you that's great.. I've personally seen the impact of them when my sister went insane during the time she was consuming copious amounts of Zoloft prescribed by a doc.
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dsmccracken

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#150 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="Manly-manly-man"]

It oppresses the citizen's right to defend themselves, and thus the criminals have nothing to worry about. If more people had guns, less criminals would attack them. If half of the population had guns, a criminal would have a 50-50 chance of being shot, and no one likes those laws. Take away the citizen's guns, and the criminal has no worries, and will commit more crimes. Let's even take it to the extreme.

Manly-manly-man

This kind of logic sounds great on paper (or forums). In practice, however, other civilized nations WITH gun control haven't suffered from the unchecked crime you seem to be implying would be the result of such control measures in the US. This is misdirection by gun apologists that sounds great but is false.

That's because they never had guns to begin with. The US is a different story.

Ah, now I see your point. You are correct, for awhile, there will be a disconnect, growing pains, it could be bad for awhile, but then it's not exactly a peach now. But a first step must always be taken, your country is trapped in a cycle that it can't get out of. Every year, gun sales increase faster than your bloody population... red flag, that is. No product, guns or anything else, lasts forever. Every criminal arrested and gun confiscated is one less, if there is no new supply, only then can things change.

And you are wrong. Canada does have guns. Illegal guns. They come, for the most part, from the US. Thanks for that. Even still, our gun-related deaths are nowhere near yours, not even as a ratio per 100000 people.

I agree, something needs to change, but a first step is NOT banning guns. And I didn't mean they didn't have guns at all, I meant they didn't have a large population of guns, and more and more guns being produced constantly. I believe one gun every 3 seconds...

People who talk about or advocate gun control are not always talking about banning them. We have guns in Canada, legal ones, I have shot rifles (though very long ago), we have lots of hunting. Hand guns are by far the biggest problem, and account for the vast majority of homicides. And remember, the production in factories will stop if they can't sell them anymore. That's just supply and demand. I don't think this would create an illegal gun market that would equate with speak-easies during prohibition. We had prohibition too, and gin was rampant. We have gun control now, but guns are not rampant, at least not at your level.