America! Fvck yeah!

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#1 Posted by Cyberdot (3928 posts) -

Boy, 5, killed sister, 2, with "children's rifle"

At first I was thinking how the hell a children's rifle can kill, and I Googled it and found this which looks like the gun involved in the incident.

[spoiler] crickett.22+006.jpg [/spoiler]

Real bullets... in a children's rifle.

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#2 Posted by megagene (23153 posts) -
First rifle for children, huh? Okaaay...
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#3 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

I've said it before, I'll say it again...as a gun owner and lover...parents need to start being held responsible if anything happens with any guns in their house or any guns they own. Whether they committed the crime or not, the parents need to be held responsible. If the parents start having to take the hit for what kids do with their guns, they will start actually locking them up. I'm tired of idiots making the 99.99 percent of responsible gun owners look bad.

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#4 Posted by Wasdie (53463 posts) -

Little .22s have been given to kids for decades so the kids and learn to properly handle firearms. Accidents like this happen from time to time when the parent is irresponsible enough to give a kid the gun without keeping the ammo and gun separated and locked up except when out shooting.

Also this goes to show the caliber and type of gun is irrelevant.

Accidents like this happen from time to time just like any other gun related accident. It's sad and shouldn't happen, but it does.

Also what would you expect a .22 rilfe to shoot? Paintballs? BBs? 

My question is, why was the gun out and loaded? That's irresponsible.

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#5 Posted by yellosnolvr (19302 posts) -
interesting. i managed not to shoot anyone when i was in possession of a .22 at a young age. i guess i'm in the minority
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#6 Posted by Treflis (13306 posts) -
My question is why would you give your five year old child anything other then a waterpistol? What reason, which would have to make sense, would you buy a child below at least 14-15 years a firearm? Regardless of caliber.
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#7 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

My question is why would you give your five year old child anything other then a waterpistol? What reason, which would have to make sense, would you buy a child below at least 14-15 years a firearm? Regardless of caliber.Treflis
The point is to expose them to responsible firearm usage at an early age so they learn to respect it and properly use it. When doing so though, you are never supposed to walk away while the child is using the gun and certainly not leave it laying out, loaded.

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#8 Posted by JML897 (33134 posts) -

I've said it before, I'll say it again...as a gun owner and lover...parents need to start being held responsible if anything happens with any guns in their house or any guns they own. Whether they committed the crime or not, the parents need to be held responsible. If the parents start having to take the hit for what kids do with their guns, they will start actually locking them up. I'm tired of idiots making the 99.99 percent of responsible gun owners look bad.

Pirate700
That sounds reasonable to me. There's no excuse for being this negligent.
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#9 Posted by Wasdie (53463 posts) -

My question is why would you give your five year old child anything other then a waterpistol? What reason, which would have to make sense, would you buy a child below at least 14-15 years a firearm? Regardless of caliber.Treflis

That's a damn good quesiton. 5 years old is way too young for riles. I can see 7-8 under parental guidence, but not 5 all by themselves. 

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#10 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

[QUOTE="Treflis"]My question is why would you give your five year old child anything other then a waterpistol? What reason, which would have to make sense, would you buy a child below at least 14-15 years a firearm? Regardless of caliber.Wasdie

That's a damn good quesiton. 5 years old is way too young for riles. I can see 7-8 under parental guidence, but not 5 all by themselves. 

I agree 5 is too young but even at 7-8, the same rules apply.

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#11 Posted by Wasdie (53463 posts) -

[QUOTE="Treflis"]My question is why would you give your five year old child anything other then a waterpistol? What reason, which would have to make sense, would you buy a child below at least 14-15 years a firearm? Regardless of caliber.Pirate700

The point is to expose them to responsible firearm usage at an early age so they learn to respect it and properly use it. When doing so though, you are never supposed to walk away while the child is using the gun and certainly not leave it laying out, loaded.

I still think 5 is a bit young. A bit older when they can more easily respect the responsibility that comes with guns and then while the gun is being handled by the kid the parent should be supervising at all times. All other times the ammo and rifle are locked up so that the kids cannot get to them.

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#12 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="Treflis"]My question is why would you give your five year old child anything other then a waterpistol? What reason, which would have to make sense, would you buy a child below at least 14-15 years a firearm? Regardless of caliber.Wasdie

The point is to expose them to responsible firearm usage at an early age so they learn to respect it and properly use it. When doing so though, you are never supposed to walk away while the child is using the gun and certainly not leave it laying out, loaded.

I still think 5 is a bit young. A bit older when they can more easily respect the responsibility that comes with guns and then while the gun is being handled by the kid the parent should be supervising at all times. All other times the ammo and rifle are locked up so that the kids cannot get to them.

Like I said, I agree, 5 is too young. 8-9 is the earliest, IMO.

Avatar image for JustBeYourself
#13 Posted by JustBeYourself (686 posts) -
Frankly, anyone who thinks giving a child a real or realish gun is a good idea has mental issues.
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#14 Posted by mrmusicman247 (17601 posts) -
how many gun deaths are accidental per year?
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#15 Posted by Chicken453 (2038 posts) -
Wow, I can't even this thread. How people can condone a 5 year old to have a rifle as a toy is beyond me,. Do you people forget a guns purpose is to harm or kill whether your being respectful, or acknowledge this, it doesn't change the fact that it's purpose is to harm or kill nothing will come out of owning a gun that young.
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#16 Posted by Wasdie (53463 posts) -

Wow, I can't even this thread. How people can condone a 5 year old to have a rifle as a toy is beyond me,. Do you people forget a guns purpose is to harm or kill whether your being respectful, or acknowledge this, it doesn't change the fact that it's purpose is to harm or kill nothing will come out of owning a gun that young. Chicken453

I don't think anybody here believes a 5 year old should have a gun. I certainly don't and same with Pirate.

A gun isn't a toy. Nobody is saying it is. They need to be treated with the utmost respect at all time, not given to an unsupervised 5 year old.

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#17 Posted by bnarmz (1372 posts) -

smfh. As the campaign for citizen disarmament vamp up, gun owners are shaking in their boots because they are now starting to see how the irresponsibility of a few will jeopardize the rights of the many. I doubt talking about parental responsibility or infringed freedoms will remedy the gun issues. Talk is cheap, it is time for action and I see the politicians using every trick and misfortune at their disposal. We can't sit by doing nothing and claim rights when we/some steadily abuse those rights with stupidity. What affects a few will ultimately affect the all... in due time. These problems have to be address by responsible caring citizens, or the government will do it for us and risks losing a few of our privileges along the way.

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#18 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

[QUOTE="Chicken453"]Wow, I can't even this thread. How people can condone a 5 year old to have a rifle as a toy is beyond me,. Do you people forget a guns purpose is to harm or kill whether your being respectful, or acknowledge this, it doesn't change the fact that it's purpose is to harm or kill nothing will come out of owning a gun that young. Wasdie

I don't think anybody here believes a 5 year old should have a gun. I certainly don't and same with Pirate.

A gun isn't a toy. Nobody is saying it is. They need to be treated with the utmost respect at all time, not given to an unsupervised 5 year old.

Exactly. Nobody is saying a kid should have a gun as a toy. The point is, or typically is, to teach the child that guns are NOT toys.

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#19 Posted by j_assassin (1008 posts) -
what is it with americans and their obsession with guns?!
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#20 Posted by Wasdie (53463 posts) -

what is it with americans and their obsession with guns?!j_assassin

Being a fan of owning, collecting, and operating firearms is something you cannot describe to somebody raised in a culture devoid of all firearms. So yeah, there is no real good answer here to satisfy people who's only exposure to gun culture is Hollywood and the bad news that comes from it.

 

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#21 Posted by hoola (6422 posts) -

A real .22 for a 5 year old is just stupid.  At that age I probably wouldn't get them anything, but at maybe 6 or 7 i would get them a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun.  Something to shoot cans and bottles that isn't really deadly.  

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#22 Posted by Chicken453 (2038 posts) -

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Chicken453"]Wow, I can't even this thread. How people can condone a 5 year old to have a rifle as a toy is beyond me,. Do you people forget a guns purpose is to harm or kill whether your being respectful, or acknowledge this, it doesn't change the fact that it's purpose is to harm or kill nothing will come out of owning a gun that young. Pirate700

I don't think anybody here believes a 5 year old should have a gun. I certainly don't and same with Pirate.

A gun isn't a toy. Nobody is saying it is. They need to be treated with the utmost respect at all time, not given to an unsupervised 5 year old.

Exactly. Nobody is saying a kid should have a gun as a toy. The point is, or typically is, to teach the child that guns are NOT toys.

Pirate you just stated i the kids was 7 or 8 you'd be ok with this. a 7 or 8 year old is still a child a minor .
Avatar image for Wasdie
#23 Posted by Wasdie (53463 posts) -

A real .22 for a 5 year old is just stupid.  At that age I probably wouldn't get them anything, but at maybe 6 or 7 i would get them a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun.  Something to shoot cans and bottles that isn't really deadly.  

hoola

You'll shoot your eye out!

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#24 Posted by mrbojangles25 (39152 posts) -

accidents and stupidity happen.  While unfortunate, this is just another case of the media using fear to make people think things are really bad.

I do feel bad for the family, though.  Well, the boy at least.  The parents can't feel bad enough for what they have done in my opinion.

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#25 Posted by comp_atkins (34298 posts) -

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Chicken453"]Wow, I can't even this thread. How people can condone a 5 year old to have a rifle as a toy is beyond me,. Do you people forget a guns purpose is to harm or kill whether your being respectful, or acknowledge this, it doesn't change the fact that it's purpose is to harm or kill nothing will come out of owning a gun that young. Pirate700

I don't think anybody here believes a 5 year old should have a gun. I certainly don't and same with Pirate.

A gun isn't a toy. Nobody is saying it is. They need to be treated with the utmost respect at all time, not given to an unsupervised 5 year old.

Exactly. Nobody is saying a kid should have a gun as a toy. The point is, or typically is, to teach the child that guns are NOT toys.

what better way to learn than by killing your little sister?
Avatar image for Pirate700
#26 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I don't think anybody here believes a 5 year old should have a gun. I certainly don't and same with Pirate.

A gun isn't a toy. Nobody is saying it is. They need to be treated with the utmost respect at all time, not given to an unsupervised 5 year old.

Chicken453

Exactly. Nobody is saying a kid should have a gun as a toy. The point is, or typically is, to teach the child that guns are NOT toys.

Pirate you just stated i the kids was 7 or 8 you'd be ok with this. a 7 or 8 year old is still a child a minor .

I said 8-9 and what does that have to do with what I said?

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#27 Posted by Wasdie (53463 posts) -

Pirate you just stated i the kids was 7 or 8 you'd be ok with this. a 7 or 8 year old is still a child a minor .Chicken453

So? That doesn't make a gun a toy. A responsible parent who wishes to teach their kids about firearms at an early age buys a gun their kids can use while under their supervision only. This is very common practice to teach kids how to operate and respect firearms. You never leave them alone with the gun and you never keep it unlocked so they can get at it at any time. That's common sense and being responsible.

If you want to give your kid a gun they can shoot others with, Nerf makes a very large array of foam based firearms that are a lot of fun to use. 

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#28 Posted by Chicken453 (2038 posts) -

[QUOTE="Chicken453"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]Exactly. Nobody is saying a kid should have a gun as a toy. The point is, or typically is, to teach the child that guns are NOT toys.

Pirate700

Pirate you just stated i the kids was 7 or 8 you'd be ok with this. a 7 or 8 year old is still a child a minor .

I said 8-9 and what does that have to do with what I said?

7, 8 ,9 ,10, 11, 12 That doesn't change the fact they from 7 to 16 you are a minor and 7 to 12 year olds are still seen as children.

 

On the first page you said " I agree 5 is too young but even at 7-8, the same rules apply." As if to say it's accpetable for a 7 year old to own a gun, or am i reading your reply wrong?

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#29 Posted by Wasdie (53463 posts) -

what better way to learn than by killing your little sister? comp_atkins

Is that what any of us have been implying? 

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#30 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I don't think anybody here believes a 5 year old should have a gun. I certainly don't and same with Pirate.

A gun isn't a toy. Nobody is saying it is. They need to be treated with the utmost respect at all time, not given to an unsupervised 5 year old.

comp_atkins

Exactly. Nobody is saying a kid should have a gun as a toy. The point is, or typically is, to teach the child that guns are NOT toys.

what better way to learn than by killing your little sister?

Knee jerk much? The point obviously was not to have the brother shoot the sister. That's why they are called accidents.

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#31 Posted by Wasdie (53463 posts) -

7, 8 ,9 ,10, 11, 12 That doesn't chang the fact they from 7 to 16 you are a minor and 7 to 12 year olds are still seen as children. Chicken453

Again, does it matter? 

As long as the kids are supervised it's fine. Just like any child activity at that age.

You don't give a kid a gun at those ages. You let them use one of your own under supervision in a controlled environment. Heck I wouldn't give a gun to a lot of people my age for the same reasons I wouldn't give it to a 5 year old.

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#32 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="Chicken453"] Pirate you just stated i the kids was 7 or 8 you'd be ok with this. a 7 or 8 year old is still a child a minor .Chicken453

I said 8-9 and what does that have to do with what I said?

7, 8 ,9 ,10, 11, 12 That doesn't chang the fact they from 7 to 16 you are a minor and 7 to 12 year olds are still seen as children.

Again, what does that have to do with what I said? Being a child doesn't mean you shouldn't be  learning responsible gun ownership under the tight supervision of the parent.

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#33 Posted by bobbetybob (19370 posts) -

Little .22s have been given to kids for decades so the kids and learn to properly handle firearms. Accidents like this happen from time to time when the parent is irresponsible enough to give a kid the gun without keeping the ammo and gun separated and locked up except when out shooting.

Also this goes to show the caliber and type of gun is irrelevant.

Accidents like this happen from time to time just like any other gun related accident. It's sad and shouldn't happen, but it does.

Also what would you expect a .22 rilfe to shoot? Paintballs? BBs? 

My question is, why was the gun out and loaded? That's irresponsible.

Wasdie
Yeah I've heard of similar accidents happening with Air rifles too. Like you said, why would you leave your children around something like this unsupervised for even a second?
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#34 Posted by Lonelynight (30050 posts) -
stupid parents.
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#35 Posted by ChiefvsGordon (1085 posts) -

I've said it before, I'll say it again...as a gun owner and lover...parents need to start being held responsible if anything happens with any guns in their house or any guns they own. Whether they committed the crime or not, the parents need to be held responsible. If the parents start having to take the hit for what kids do with their guns, they will start actually locking them up. I'm tired of idiots making the 99.99 percent of responsible gun owners look bad.

Pirate700

couldnt agree more. that was one of the first things my dad did once i discovered he had a gun in the house. although i was never dumb enough to grab it because i knew my dad would whip me. which brings up another point that parents these days are soft on kids. If kids of this generation got beat a few times they would not be doing things like this and look all these anti bully campaigns we have now(ok getting off topic)... i now own a gun that has a lock on the trigger and is locked in a case at all times.

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#36 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (25057 posts) -

Personally, I wouldn't buy a gun for a kid until they were 18.

There's probably less of a chance they'd be stupid with it.

Maybe.

Well, probably not.

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#37 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4735 posts) -

Pirate's pretty much hit the nail right on the head.

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#38 Posted by Diablo-B (4063 posts) -
Some people just have to learn the hard way. No kid should own their own gun. No kid should have access to their parent's guns. I have no issue with a parent showing an adolescent how to properly use a gun but to buy one as a gift for a 4 year old.
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#39 Posted by killzowned24 (7345 posts) -
accidents happen,big deal. where is the TS from to be so butthurt over America?
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#40 Posted by Mrmedia01 (1917 posts) -

Parents fault, should have locked up the ammo but..... As of latley been kind of sick of gun deaths.

I would not mind if they had strickter laws against guns. Funny how a 5 year old is allowed to have a gun. WTF who ever made it ok for a 5 year old to use a deadly weapon?

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#41 Posted by Evil_Saluki (5217 posts) -

I guess that's not meant for someone who's 5.

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#42 Posted by nooblet69 (5162 posts) -

That is 100% the parents fault for letting the kid go unsupervised with a loaded firearm. .22 rifles are capable of killing grown adults and deer as well so that is crazy.

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#43 Posted by General_X (9137 posts) -
At 5 years old I feel he shouldn't quite have graduated from Nerf yet...
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#44 Posted by Dogswithguns (11359 posts) -

I've said it before, I'll say it again...as a gun owner and lover...parents need to start being held responsible if anything happens with any guns in their house or any guns they own. Whether they committed the crime or not, the parents need to be held responsible. If the parents start having to take the hit for what kids do with their guns, they will start actually locking them up. I'm tired of idiots making the 99.99 percent of responsible gun owners look bad.

Pirate700
Yep.. I couldn't a agree more.
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#45 Posted by -Renegade (8340 posts) -

of course 4 year olds need guns to defend themselves.

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#46 Posted by comp_atkins (34298 posts) -

if only the 2 year old was armed...

Avatar image for -Renegade
#47 Posted by -Renegade (8340 posts) -

Frankly, anyone who thinks giving a child a real or realish gun is a good idea has mental issues. JustBeYourself

i dont know if they have mental issues but clearly they are not to smart.

Avatar image for -Renegade
#48 Posted by -Renegade (8340 posts) -

[QUOTE="Chicken453"] Pirate you just stated i the kids was 7 or 8 you'd be ok with this. a 7 or 8 year old is still a child a minor .Wasdie

So? That doesn't make a gun a toy. A responsible parent who wishes to teach their kids about firearms at an early age buys a gun their kids can use while under their supervision only. This is very common practice to teach kids how to operate and respect firearms. You never leave them alone with the gun and you never keep it unlocked so they can get at it at any time. That's common sense and being responsible.

If you want to give your kid a gun they can shoot others with, Nerf makes a very large array of foam based firearms that are a lot of fun to use. 

its dumb though. there are powerful enough pellet rifles that will kill small animals that could also teach them the same. there is no reason a minor any near this age should own a gun.

Avatar image for junglist101
#49 Posted by junglist101 (5517 posts) -

I've said it before, I'll say it again...as a gun owner and lover...parents need to start being held responsible if anything happens with any guns in their house or any guns they own. Whether they committed the crime or not, the parents need to be held responsible. If the parents start having to take the hit for what kids do with their guns, they will start actually locking them up. I'm tired of idiots making the 99.99 percent of responsible gun owners look bad.

Pirate700

Pirate, you are so right on with this.  It's the parents who are responsible for most of the social problems we have today.  Raise your damn kids right so we don't have to suffer your bad parenting once they are adults.  Good parents generally raise good kids and the asshat parents should be responsible for their little spawns of Satan.

Avatar image for DevilMightCry
#50 Posted by DevilMightCry (3554 posts) -

[QUOTE="Treflis"]My question is why would you give your five year old child anything other then a waterpistol? What reason, which would have to make sense, would you buy a child below at least 14-15 years a firearm? Regardless of caliber.Pirate700

The point is to expose them to responsible firearm usage at an early age so they learn to respect it and properly use it. When doing so though, you are never supposed to walk away while the child is using the gun and certainly not leave it laying out, loaded.

My son is 5 and I talk to him about safety and risks about firearms all the time and each time I handle one. But I wouldn't give my kids even a bb gun until they were 13 maybe 14 WITH my supervision. Let alone a. 22 rifle. But I agree with your previous post about holding adults accountable in many ways.