38,000 Muslims Surveyed- 75% against suicide attacks, 85% women should obey(56k)

Here's a figure from the same survey that OP conveniently failed to include

X

this isn't new info, but does deserve clarification.

From the research study itself "Although many Muslims around the world say sharia should be the law of the land in their country, the survey reveals divergent opinions about the precise application of Islamic law.14 Generally, supporters of sharia are most comfortable with its application in cases of family or property disputes. In most regions, fewer favor other specific aspects of sharia, such as cutting off the hands of thieves and executing people who convert from Islam to another faith."

What i've found living in Saudi is most people want Shariah Law but when you start asking specifics, you find out that people just wanna cherry pick Shariah Law or they don't know what it means. The simple religion = must be good - line of thinking.

There was a BBC World Service report of an Egyptian woman interviewing other women in Alexandria asking them why they had voted for Mohammed Morsi in Egypt almost all said the same reason "He's a good Muslim". As idiotic as it is, this is not that different from Americans voting for a President because "He's a good Christian" or "He's a guy i can have a beer with".

It's also important - as the study also pointed out - that in most of the places that have a high majority of Muslims that wanted Shariah Law as the law of the land. Those places do not have a history of government administration AND culture resulting from that where the law was seperate from religion. Places like Tajikistan and Turkey have much lower want for Shariah Law then say Saudi Arabia.

Talking with Saudi's, they cannot conceive of government that makes it's laws purely on secular grounds, not in Saudi for Saudi's at least. Really and truthfully because there's never been a government operated fully that way here, we've never had that legacy, never had a secular revolution or a group of founding fathers of whatever kingdom. 

I think - while this study is very good and pretty accurate to at least what i would also assumed the results would of been. It's VERY important to note, you have to not just put yourself in their shoes but try and think - From THEIR perspective, their WORLD view - why they think the things they do. If you wanna run to the myopic worldview (as many people on this forum tend to want to run with cause it's easy to), then your doing yourself a disservice in the thought experiment. No one ACTUALLY thinks that they are wrong or the bad guy.

It doesn't mean I or you have to agree it. but better part of dealing and solving these problems and issues is to honestly and truthfully understand WHY people believe such things.

The most repressive Islamic country on earth, Saudi Arabia , isn't on this graph. Automatic fail.thebest31406

[QUOTE="thebest31406"]The most repressive Islamic country on earth, Saudi Arabia , isn't on this graph. Automatic fail.SaudiFury

[QUOTE="X"]

Here's a figure from the same survey that OP conveniently failed to include

SaudiFury

this isn't new info, but does deserve clarification.

From the research study itself "Although many Muslims around the world say sharia should be the law of the land in their country, the survey reveals divergent opinions about the precise application of Islamic law.14 Generally, supporters of sharia are most comfortable with its application in cases of family or property disputes. In most regions, fewer favor other specific aspects of sharia, such as cutting off the hands of thieves and executing people who convert from Islam to another faith."

What i've found living in Saudi is most people want Shariah Law but when you start asking specifics, you find out that people just wanna cherry pick Shariah Law or they don't know what it means. The simple religion = must be good - line of thinking.

There was a BBC World Service report of an Egyptian woman interviewing other women in Alexandria asking them why they had voted for Mohammed Morsi in Egypt almost all said the same reason "He's a good Muslim". As idiotic as it is, this is not that different from Americans voting for a President because "He's a good Christian" or "He's a guy i can have a beer with".

It's also important - as the study also pointed out - that in most of the places that have a high majority of Muslims that wanted Shariah Law as the law of the land. Those places do not have a history of government administration AND culture resulting from that where the law was seperate from religion. Places like Tajikistan and Turkey have much lower want for Shariah Law then say Saudi Arabia.

Talking with Saudi's, they cannot conceive of government that makes it's laws purely on secular grounds, not in Saudi for Saudi's at least. Really and truthfully because there's never been a government operated fully that way here, we've never had that legacy, never had a secular revolution or a group of founding fathers of whatever kingdom. 

I think - while this study is very good and pretty accurate to at least what i would also assumed the results would of been. It's VERY important to note, you have to not just put yourself in their shoes but try and think - From THEIR perspective, their WORLD view - why they think the things they do. If you wanna run to the myopic worldview (as many people on this forum tend to want to run with cause it's easy to), then your doing yourself a disservice in the thought experiment. No one ACTUALLY thinks that they are wrong or the bad guy.

It doesn't mean I or you have to agree it. but better part of dealing and solving these problems and issues is to honestly and truthfully understand WHY people believe such things.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]TC you should add the complete report to your post.THE_DRUGGIE

Oh boy, I'm going to read a 226-page report so I can debate a topic on an Off-Topic forum on a gaming site!

Just to play Devil's advocate, Bible states same role of women. Just pointing out info is misconstrued and not given enough context.

Just to play Devil's advocate, Bible states same role of women. Just pointing out info is misconstrued and not given enough context.

shellcase86

Just to play Devil's advocate, Bible states same role of women. Just pointing out info is misconstrued and not given enough context.

shellcase86

These numbers are pretty scary on the human rights front and shows just how much hold that fundamentalists have.

Full Report 226 pages Full Report

Person0

Actually, I think the numbers are actually quite positive. Especially in that the majority of people surveyed reject extremism and suicide bombings, believe religious freedom is a good thing (though I would contend that in many Muslim countries religious minorities are not free, or are second-class citizens). Also a lot of the people who support Sharia law seem like they only want to apply Sharia law to Muslims.whipassmt

The problem with such worldly surveys when it comes to Muslims is that many Muslims like to mix their culture in with Islam. Like for example in south east Asia most Muslim women when they get married are expected to live with their in laws. Some of them even think they are getting blessings for it or something. But it is contrary to what Islam says which is that a man must provide his wife with her own crib. Also Muslim women in the sub continent tend to more subservient to their husbands and husbands families than women in other Muslim countries are. Culture has to be taken into consideration when looking at these statistics. Culture plays a big role for many muslims. Many of them rather follow what their culture says than what Islm says.helwa1988

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]Actually, I think the numbers are actually quite positive. Especially in that the majority of people surveyed reject extremism and suicide bombings, believe religious freedom is a good thing (though I would contend that in many Muslim countries religious minorities are not free, or are second-class citizens). Also a lot of the people who support Sharia law seem like they only want to apply Sharia law to Muslims.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]TC you should add the complete report to your post.chessmaster1989

Oh boy, I'm going to read a 226-page report so I can debate a topic on an Off-Topic forum on a gaming site!

Islam is garbage and so are it's fanatical followers.

RadecSupreme

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]Actually, I think the numbers are actually quite positive. Especially in that the majority of people surveyed reject extremism and suicide bombings, believe religious freedom is a good thing (though I would contend that in many Muslim countries religious minorities are not free, or are second-class citizens). Also a lot of the people who support Sharia law seem like they only want to apply Sharia law to Muslims.LJS9502_basic

Religion and stupidity don't fare well together. chrisrooR

one feeds off the other :P

the problem with surveys is they are completely and utterly controlled by where you take them and  who you give them to to fill out.

now this particular survey could all be totally accurate or whatever but i could go give a survey to the wbc and it would  say christians  overwhelmingly support the beheading of everyone that is not them.

it is almost impossible to make a survey that is not influenced to say whatever it is the givers of the survey want it to say.

the problem with surveys is they are completely and utterly controlled by where you take them and  who you give them to to fill out.

now this particular survey could all be totally accurate or whatever but i could go give a survey to the wbc and it would  say christians  overwhelmingly support the beheading of everyone that is not them.

it is almost impossible to make a survey that is not influenced to say whatever it is the givers of the survey want it to say.

Riverwolf007

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

the problem with surveys is they are completely and utterly controlled by where you take them and  who you give them to to fill out.

now this particular survey could all be totally accurate or whatever but i could go give a survey to the wbc and it would  say christians  overwhelmingly support the beheading of everyone that is not them.

it is almost impossible to make a survey that is not influenced to say whatever it is the givers of the survey want it to say.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

the problem with surveys is they are completely and utterly controlled by where you take them and  who you give them to to fill out.

now this particular survey could all be totally accurate or whatever but i could go give a survey to the wbc and it would  say christians  overwhelmingly support the beheading of everyone that is not them.

it is almost impossible to make a survey that is not influenced to say whatever it is the givers of the survey want it to say.

Riverwolf007

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You know the WBC would not be a large enough sample for a valid survey.....right?LJS9502_basic

 

 

 

 These numbers are pretty scary on the human rights front and shows just how much hold that fundamentalists have.

 

 

Person0

Okay, so you're just ignoring all the statistics that fly in the face of all the anti-Muslim rhetoric and going straight for the ones that support that?  Nice job.  you're also not taking into account that a lot of these extreme views, such as cutting the hands off of theives, are most prominent in areas where that's still a common practice and has never been socially challenged on a large scale, or that those who support religiously-based laws already live predominantly in theocracies.  That shows that the objectionable views typically attributed to Islam are not an inherent part of Islamic culture, but rather cultural traditions and practices of specific regions that happen to be predominantly Islamic.

"A median of 86% of Muslims around the world agree that in order for a person to be moral, he or she must believe in God."

Yeah I'm not truckin' with that.

here is an indepth look at the average person who this sample was given to to fill out.

here is an indepth look at the average person who this survey was not given to to  fill out.

;)

ok, ok that is mostly just a joke.... ummmm. mostly... yeah.

"A median of 86% of Muslims around the world agree that in order for a person to be moral, he or she must believe in God."

Yeah I'm not truckin' with that.

Opi0us

IF these statistics are even remotely close to accurate it's scary as shit and there's no sugar coating it....38,000 is not a bad sample size..but there are a lot of factors when it comes to compiling stats....Omni-Slash

if you scale down the numbers it is 1 person for every 10,000.

how is that not a bad sample size?

now my whole thing here is not about the muslim part because what do i care if you are a nutjob about allah or jesus or any of the rest of the  superfriends.

i'm specifically ridiculing this because the sample size is without a doubt horrible.

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]IF these statistics are even remotely close to accurate it's scary as shit and there's no sugar coating it....38,000 is not a bad sample size..but there are a lot of factors when it comes to compiling stats....Riverwolf007

if you scale down the numbers it is 1 person for every 10,000.

how is that not a bad sample size?

now my whole thing here is not about the muslim part because what do i care if you are a nutjob about allah or jesus or any of the rest of the  superfriends.

i'm specifically ridiculing this because the sample size is without a doubt horrible.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]IF these statistics are even remotely close to accurate it's scary as shit and there's no sugar coating it....38,000 is not a bad sample size..but there are a lot of factors when it comes to compiling stats....kuraimen

if you scale down the numbers it is 1 person for every 10,000.

how is that not a bad sample size?

now my whole thing here is not about the muslim part because what do i care if you are a nutjob about allah or jesus or any of the rest of the  superfriends.

i'm specifically ridiculing this because the sample size is without a doubt horrible.

was it internet based so the entire thing was done only by people with the internet?

phone interviews?

done in person so the people giving the survey were too  frightened to go into remote areas to get a more rounded sample?

who knows.

i'm just saying surveys are almost always flawed in some sort of major way.

i normally  take survey data  with a grain of salt the size of a car.

combine that with a .00001% sample size and things look kinda terrible for this survey being one of the rare ones with any sort of validity or the ability to have any sort of real understanding of the reality of the situation.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]dude, it's 38,000 out of a billion.

if you scale down the numbers it is 1 person for every 10,000.

how is that not a bad sample size?

now my whole thing here is not about the muslim part because what do i care if you are a nutjob about allah or jesus or any of the rest of the  superfriends.

i'm specifically ridiculing this because the sample size is without a doubt horrible.

Riverwolf007

was it internet based so the entire thing was done only by people with the internet?

phone interviews?

done in person so the people giving the survey were to frightened to go into remote areas to get a more rounded sample?

who knows.

i'm just saying surveys are almost always flawed in some sort of major way.

i normally  take survey data  with a grain of salt the size of a car.

combine that with a .00001% sample size and things look kinda terrible for this survey

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]dude, it's 38,000 out of a billion.

if you scale down the numbers it is 1 person for every 10,000.

how is that not a bad sample size?

now my whole thing here is not about the muslim part because what do i care if you are a nutjob about allah or jesus or any of the rest of the  superfriends.

i'm specifically ridiculing this because the sample size is without a doubt horrible.

Riverwolf007

was it internet based so the entire thing was done only by people with the internet?

phone interviews?

done in person so the people giving the survey were to frightened to go into remote areas to get a more rounded sample?

who knows.

i'm just saying surveys are almost always flawed in some sort of major way.

i normally  take survey data  with a grain of salt the size of a car.

combine that with a .00001% sample size and things look kinda terrible for this survey

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] It depends some samples even if they look small can be statistically sound and reflect a phenomenon properly. Of course statistics are not always correct but they still give you an idea and a well done statistical work normally is accurate.LJS9502_basic

was it internet based so the entire thing was done only by people with the internet?

phone interviews?

done in person so the people giving the survey were to frightened to go into remote areas to get a more rounded sample?

who knows.

i'm just saying surveys are almost always flawed in some sort of major way.

i normally  take survey data  with a grain of salt the size of a car.

combine that with a .00001% sample size and things look kinda terrible for this survey

the statistics are meaningless because of the mechanics so i can't make any judgment on those at all.

other than what i already know which is people are just people and mostly almost exactly the same way i am about almost every subject.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] It depends some samples even if they look small can be statistically sound and reflect a phenomenon properly. Of course statistics are not always correct but they still give you an idea and a well done statistical work normally is accurate.kuraimen

was it internet based so the entire thing was done only by people with the internet?

phone interviews?

done in person so the people giving the survey were to frightened to go into remote areas to get a more rounded sample?

who knows.

i'm just saying surveys are almost always flawed in some sort of major way.

i normally  take survey data  with a grain of salt the size of a car.

combine that with a .00001% sample size and things look kinda terrible for this survey

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] It depends some samples even if they look small can be statistically sound and reflect a phenomenon properly. Of course statistics are not always correct but they still give you an idea and a well done statistical work normally is accurate.kuraimen

was it internet based so the entire thing was done only by people with the internet?

phone interviews?

done in person so the people giving the survey were to frightened to go into remote areas to get a more rounded sample?

who knows.

i'm just saying surveys are almost always flawed in some sort of major way.

i normally  take survey data  with a grain of salt the size of a car.

combine that with a .00001% sample size and things look kinda terrible for this survey

door to door means they did whatever was the easiest and safest thing to do which means the most radical segment was left out.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

only 75% disagree.  The fvck....

GrayF0X786

lol thats what I was thinking.

the mechanics.

the statistics are meaningless because of the mechanics so i can't make any judgment on those at all.

other than what i already know which is people are just people and mostly almost exactly the same way i am about almost every subject.

Riverwolf007

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

the mechanics.

the statistics are meaningless because of the mechanics so i can't make any judgment on those at all.

other than what i already know which is people are just people and mostly almost exactly the same way i am about almost every subject.

LJS9502_basic

when surveys are so inherently  flawed being the most respected does not mean very much.

like i said before i think the vast majority of muslims are not crazy...well at least the same amount of crazy as every other religion so the data may be fine.

i just don't have any respect for surveys as a data gathering method.

i prefer observation.

which can be flawed also but not as flawed by terrible methodology, emotional considerations  and the people who take the surveys  own cognitive bias.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

the mechanics.

the statistics are meaningless because of the mechanics so i can't make any judgment on those at all.

other than what i already know which is people are just people and mostly almost exactly the same way i am about almost every subject.

Riverwolf007

when surveys are so inherently  flawed being the most respected does not mean very much.

like i said before i think the vast majority of muslims are not crazy...well at least the same amount of crazy as every other religion so the data may be fine.

i just don't have any respect for surveys as a data gathering method.

i prefer observation.

which can be flawed also but not flawed by terrible methodology and the people who take the surveys  own cognitive bias.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]AFAIK Pew Research is respected.

LJS9502_basic

when surveys are so inherently  flawed being the most respected does not mean very much.

like i said before i think the vast majority of muslims are not crazy...well at least the same amount of crazy as every other religion so the data may be fine.

i just don't have any respect for surveys as a data gathering method.

i prefer observation.

which can be flawed also but not flawed by terrible methodology and the people who take the surveys  own cognitive bias.

that's not the comparason i made.

i compared surveys and batboy in the same light, not pew and daily mail.

i'm saying scientific observation not what clem at the auto body shop thinks about it after watching fox.

surveys are inherently flawed in almost every case by tiny sample sizes, the interviewer effect, bad methods of questioning  and the makers having a pre determined outcome in mind.

it is that simple.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]yea and the daily mail is the most respected magazine in charge  of batboy research.

when surveys are so inherently  flawed being the most respected does not mean very much.

like i said before i think the vast majority of muslims are not crazy...well at least the same amount of crazy as every other religion so the data may be fine.

i just don't have any respect for surveys as a data gathering method.

i prefer observation.

which can be flawed also but not flawed by terrible methodology and the people who take the surveys  own cognitive bias.

Riverwolf007

surveys are inherently flawed in almost every case by tiny sample sizes, the interviewer effect, bad methods of questioning  and the makers having a pre determined outcome in mind.

it is that simple.

[QUOTE="Opi0us"]

"A median of 86% of Muslims around the world agree that in order for a person to be moral, he or she must believe in God."

Yeah I'm not truckin' with that.

kuraimen

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Comparing Pew Research to the Daily Mail undermines your argument not strengthens it. And frankly I'd find the survey better than observations. What has the world observed in regard to Muslims in the last decade or so? Terrorists and extremists. Do you really think we should use that as a measure of the 1.8 billion?LJS9502_basic

surveys are inherently flawed in almost every case by tiny sample sizes, the interviewer effect, bad methods of questioning  and the makers having a pre determined outcome in mind.

it is that simple.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]i'm saying scientific observation not what clem at the auto body shop thinks about it after watching fox.

surveys are inherently flawed in almost every case by tiny sample sizes, the interviewer effect, bad methods of questioning  and the makers having a pre determined outcome in mind.

it is that simple.

 

Riverwolf007

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Opi0us"]

"A median of 86% of Muslims around the world agree that in order for a person to be moral, he or she must believe in God."

Yeah I'm not truckin' with that.

whipassmt

the problem with surveys is they are completely and utterly controlled by where you take them and who you give them to to fill out.

now this particular survey could all be totally accurate or whatever but i could go give a survey to the wbc and it would say christians overwhelmingly support the beheading of everyone that is not them.

it is almost impossible to make a survey that is not influenced to say whatever it is the givers of the survey want it to say.

Riverwolf007

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] I bet that percentage is similar of christians in my country...LJS9502_basic