14 states may try to target birthright citizenship

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ad1x2

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#1 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/14-states-may-target-birthright-citizenship

Arizona lawmakers are trying to introduce legislation to deny giving citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants who are born in the country. With that, lawmakers in 13 other states say they support the proposed legislation and are considering similar legislation. The argument that was bought up by the lawmakers is that the 14th Amendment was meant to give citizenship to the children of freed slaves, not to the children of foreigners.

Rather than give my opinion right now, I'm just going to post this and warn people to bring their flame shields in discussing this.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#2 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
I don't think so.. Its not the children's fault for something they had no control over.. I would rather they become American citizens than possibly shipped off to a poverty stricken dangerous place.. I just find it immoral that we could allow that.
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deactivated-5b19214ec908b

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#3 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

We should throw the children back into the sea from which they came!

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#4 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
I don't think so.. Its not the children's fault for something they had no control over.. I would rather they become American citizens than possibly shipped off to a poverty stricken dangerous place.. I just find it immoral that we could allow that.sSubZerOo
Also, wouldn't this require amending the US Constitution?
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Pirate700

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#5 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

I don't think being born here should give the kids and, by default, the parents citizenship. It is a flaw in the system that is WILDLY taken advantage of.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#6 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

We should throw the children back into the sea from which they came!

toast_burner
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-Big_Red-

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#7 -Big_Red-
Member since 2006 • 7230 Posts

I actually like this. The child of an illegal immigrant is still an illegal immigrant.

yes

BRING IT ON:o!!!!!

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entropyecho

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#8 entropyecho
Member since 2005 • 22053 Posts

My feeling is, if you are born in the U.S., you should automatically be considered a U.S. citizen.

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Theokhoth

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#9 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts
"We gotta protect der Constitushun! Unless it gives raghts to dem durn ill-leeguls!"
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PannicAtack

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#10 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts
We need to follow the constitution! Aside from those parts we don't like...
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#11 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts

My feeling is, if you are born in the U.S., you should automatically be considered a U.S. citizen.

entropyecho
That's not a feeling, that's the law.
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brendanhunt1

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#12 brendanhunt1
Member since 2008 • 2333 Posts

So much for being the country of freedom :)

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Head_of_games

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#13 Head_of_games
Member since 2007 • 10859 Posts
I think it depends on whether the child was conceived in America. :P Anyways, there ought to be some compromise between letting the illegals get off Scott-Free and kicking the newborn out. Maybe branding.
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Pirate700

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#14 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

So much for being the country of freedom :)

brendanhunt1

It's a free country for her citizens. Not for everyone on earth.

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chessmaster1989

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#15 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
Let them do what they want, the US Constitution takes precedence over state law so it doesn't matter.
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#16 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
Let them do what they want, the US Constitution takes precedence over state law so it doesn't matter.chessmaster1989
Yeah, I'm not sure how Arizona feels that it can decree who is a US citizen
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weezyfb

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#17 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts
your born in the US your an American. end of story
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Pirate700

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#18 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]Let them do what they want, the US Constitution takes precedence over state law so it doesn't matter.xaos
Yeah, I'm not sure how Arizona feels that it can decree who is a US citizen

That is a good question.

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deactivated-5b19214ec908b

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#19 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

[QUOTE="brendanhunt1"]

So much for being the country of freedom :)

Pirate700

It's a free country for her citizens. Not for everyone on earth.

You are aware that most people in America are immigrants?

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Pirate700

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#21 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="brendanhunt1"]

So much for being the country of freedom :)

toast_burner

It's a free country for her citizens. Not for everyone on earth.

You are aware that most people in America are immigrants?

What are you talking about? And being an immigrant does not have to mean entering the US illegally and popping out a kid.

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chessmaster1989

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#22 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]It's a free country for her citizens. Not for everyone on earth.

Pirate700

You are aware that most people in America are immigrants?

What are you talking about?

He means most people are (legal) immigrants or descendants of immigrants.

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dragonfly110

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#23 dragonfly110
Member since 2008 • 27955 Posts

I agree with this in a way, I dont think that a child should be able to be used as a tether to allow people to become citizens of a country free. However kicking babies out of the USA is a terrible idea.

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Pirate700

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#24 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="toast_burner"] You are aware that most people in America are immigrants?

chessmaster1989

What are you talking about?

He means most people are (legal) immigrants or descendants of immigrants.

Most people in the US are 1st generation? I don't buy it.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#25 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]What are you talking about?

Pirate700

He means most people are (legal) immigrants or descendants of immigrants.

Most people in the US are 1st generation? I don't buy it.

He didn't say first generation; I think that the point was how many generations have to be born here before you consider someone eligible for citizenship
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#26 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

He means most people are (legal) immigrants or descendants of immigrants.

xaos

Most people in the US are 1st generation? I don't buy it.

He didn't say first generation; I think that the point was how many generations have to be born here before you consider someone eligible for citizenship

He said most people in the US are immigrants. That would mean they were born elsewhere.

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#27 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts
They shouldn't bother. Personally, We should give the parents two choices, let the kid stay here and they go back or they can take the kid with them back. However, they are not allowed to simply stay in the U.S. just because of their child.
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#28 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]Most people in the US are 1st generation? I don't buy it.

Pirate700

He didn't say first generation; I think that the point was how many generations have to be born here before you consider someone eligible for citizenship

He said most people in the US are immigrants. That would mean they were born elsewhere.

It was a very poor choice of words :P
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#29 shinian
Member since 2005 • 6871 Posts

Unless Arizona secedes they won't be able to do anything. Constitution will overrule the new law.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#30 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]Most people in the US are 1st generation? I don't buy it.

Pirate700

He didn't say first generation; I think that the point was how many generations have to be born here before you consider someone eligible for citizenship

He said most people in the US are immigrants. That would mean they were born elsewhere.

Well by the standards of this proposed change, people born here to parents from somewhere else would not be citizens, so it's a reasonable inference that their children would also not be citizens.
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Ontain

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#31 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]It's a free country for her citizens. Not for everyone on earth.

Pirate700

You are aware that most people in America are immigrants?

What are you talking about? And being an immigrant does not have to mean entering the US illegally and popping out a kid.

the kid is a citizen not the parents.
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Pirate700

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#32 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] He didn't say first generation; I think that the point was how many generations have to be born here before you consider someone eligible for citizenshiptoast_burner

He said most people in the US are immigrants. That would mean they were born elsewhere.

It was a very poor choice of words :P

Eh it's all good. I'm prone to the same. :P

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LJS9502_basic

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#33 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 176032 Posts
I have no problem with that.....
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#34 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] He didn't say first generation; I think that the point was how many generations have to be born here before you consider someone eligible for citizenshipxaos

He said most people in the US are immigrants. That would mean they were born elsewhere.

Well by the standards of this proposed change, people born here to parents from somewhere else would not be citizens, so it's a reasonable inference that their children would also not be citizens.

Kids from parents that came here legally through traditional means would not be affected by this.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#35 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]He said most people in the US are immigrants. That would mean they were born elsewhere.

Pirate700

Well by the standards of this proposed change, people born here to parents from somewhere else would not be citizens, so it's a reasonable inference that their children would also not be citizens.

Kids from parents that came here legally through traditional means would not be affected by this.

Following that reasoning, we should all be governed by the Indian nations of North America, amirite?
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FragStains

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#36 FragStains
Member since 2003 • 20668 Posts
Personally, I don't think anyone should be granted full citizenship privileges unless both parents are citizens and they pass the same naturalization test LEGAL immigrants are required to pass for citizenship...
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Silverbond

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#37 Silverbond
Member since 2008 • 16130 Posts

Thank goodness my state isn't on there. smh

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#38 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] Well by the standards of this proposed change, people born here to parents from somewhere else would not be citizens, so it's a reasonable inference that their children would also not be citizens.xaos

Kids from parents that came here legally through traditional means would not be affected by this.

Following that reasoning, we should all be governed by the Indian nations of North America, amirite?

No we shouldn't.

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Stesilaus

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#39 Stesilaus
Member since 2007 • 4999 Posts

If I become a "born again Christian" while in the U.S., may I claim U.S. citizenship?

:P

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#40 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts
Who wants to guess that some of the people proposing this are birthers?
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#41 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] Well by the standards of this proposed change, people born here to parents from somewhere else would not be citizens, so it's a reasonable inference that their children would also not be citizens.xaos

Kids from parents that came here legally through traditional means would not be affected by this.

Following that reasoning, we should all be governed by the Indian nations of North America, amirite?

Why? We beat their ass into dust. We conquered them. As such, we have to the power.
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#42 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Kids from parents that came here legally through traditional means would not be affected by this.

Pirate700

Following that reasoning, we should all be governed by the Indian nations of North America, amirite?

No we shouldn't.

While I'm pretty much just playing devil's advocate, why not? They were the dominant culture and their laws and customs were not observed by illegal immigrants from Europe, so what makes that scenario different from the modern analog?
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Pirate700

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#43 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

Who wants to guess that some of the people proposing this are birthers?PannicAtack
I'm sure some are just as some may be those opposed to it.

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Silverbond

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#44 Silverbond
Member since 2008 • 16130 Posts
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Kids from parents that came here legally through traditional means would not be affected by this.

Following that reasoning, we should all be governed by the Indian nations of North America, amirite?

No we shouldn't.

And why not?
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LJS9502_basic

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#45 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 176032 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] Following that reasoning, we should all be governed by the Indian nations of North America, amirite?xaos

No we shouldn't.

While I'm pretty much just playing devil's advocate, why not? They were the dominant culture and their laws and customs were not observed by illegal immigrants from Europe, so what makes that scenario different from the modern analog?

Maybe because they didn't have one entire nation but many different nations.

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Pirate700

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#46 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] Following that reasoning, we should all be governed by the Indian nations of North America, amirite?xaos

No we shouldn't.

While I'm pretty much just playing devil's advocate, why not? They were the dominant culture and their laws and customs were not observed by illegal immigrants from Europe, so what makes that scenario different from the modern analog?

You can't possibly compare developing a relatively uncharted country to this. Now if we all get a cut of the Casino money though I may be singing a different song. :P

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#47 -Big_Red-
Member since 2006 • 7230 Posts
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]What are you talking about?

He means most people are (legal) immigrants or descendants of immigrants.

Most people in the US are 1st generation? I don't buy it.

Actually Ithink what he means is that anyone who is not a Nativer American is an immigrant. Which is true.
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wstfld

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#48 wstfld
Member since 2008 • 6375 Posts
Xenophobia is a dangerous thing. This country was built on immigrants, why are we closing the valve to a trickle now?
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#49 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]No we shouldn't.

LJS9502_basic

While I'm pretty much just playing devil's advocate, why not? They were the dominant culture and their laws and customs were not observed by illegal immigrants from Europe, so what makes that scenario different from the modern analog?

Maybe because the didn't have one entire nation but many different nations.

That is factually accurate, but I don't see how it has anything to do with the topic at hand. If we regard the people who settled in the territory of each nation individually, the situation is identical.
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#50 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 176032 Posts
[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

He means most people are (legal) immigrants or descendants of immigrants.

Most people in the US are 1st generation? I don't buy it.

Actually Ithink what he means is that anyone who is not a Nativer American is an immigrant. Which is true.

The Native Americans were immigrants. Now what?