Zelda: The Wind Waker is overrated

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for drekula2
#1 Edited by drekula2 (3349 posts) -

I still think it's a good game, but it's not even in the top 5 best of the Zelda series, IMO. Even some of the 2D Zelda games have been more creative.

Just to clarify a few things, I enjoyed the visuals, as well as the expressive characters. I won't talk about the slow sailing, triforce quest or bosses being too easy because the HD version fixed that, but there are more fundamental flaws that an HD version simply cannot fix.

1. Predictable plot. Yes, WW is far from the only Zelda game to have the typical "rescue the princess. find artifacts in the dungeons. fight ganon". But Majora's Mask subverted this cliche to make a really unique and moving story. Then, WW reverted right back to it. Yes, I love the characters. It had great moments such as the Master Sword frozen in time and King Daphnes comparing himself to Ganon. Still, stale formula.

2. Sparse overworld. The feeling of sailing an ocean is fun, but once you remember where everything is, it feels like a Rube Goldberg device to get you where you want to go. In some sense, the minimalism is good, but overall, it feels like 90% of the visuals in this game are copied and pasted. If Twilight Princess bears the mark of big overworld with a bunch of empty space, so should Wind Waker.

3. Unoriginal items. The Deku Leaf is an obvious exception; I loved that one. But other than that, it looks like Wind Waker just took all of the staple Zelda items without adding great new ones or returning older favorites.

4. Predictable item usage. What I liked about many of the other Zelda games is that it's not always apparent where or how you need to use your items. In WW, you get an item and then use it where you are supposed to and nothing more. For example, in OOT, an arrow activated a twisted corridor. In Wind Waker, you use an arrow to activate a platform and that's it. Or a hammer smash an apparent obstacle and that's it.

5. Puzzles aren't that great. Puzzles are few are far in between in Wind Waker. If you count lighting readily visible torches to find a chest, moving blocks along a linear path or slaying enemies to find a key as a puzzle, you're in luck. If not, then there really isn't much innovation in the puzzle design.

6. Dungeons are simplistic. Dungeons in WW are typically small and not very complex. They are linear, and are often as easy as walking in a guided path. The look great visually, but they don't inspire the same humility as the giants of MM, TP and OOT.

7. Lack of enemy variety. Boss fights were great, but I'm talking about common enemies. Some of the dungeons have exceptions and the Darknuts are fun to fight, but the majority of the enemies in the game are just Chu's and Bokoblins. They're the equivalent Zubats and Ratattas in Pokemon.

All of my complaints seem to have a common theme (aside from me being whiny). The game is like a dumbed-down version of Ocarina of Time. Wind Waker's gameplay is as watered-down as it's Hyrule. Great visuals are great, but the gameplay just doesn't match up to the other Zelda games.

Avatar image for Metamania
#2 Posted by Metamania (12031 posts) -

No. OoT, no matter how good that game turned out to be, is the most overrated, overhyped Zelda game of all time, like how FFVII is overrated and overhyped to death.

Avatar image for firefox59
#3 Posted by firefox59 (4530 posts) -

I'm sorry but your opinion on this one is off. It seems like you never gave it a chance. The game is amazing.

Avatar image for ReddestSkies
#4 Edited by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

Thank you for enlightening us with another "X is overrated" thread. I can't wait for the next one. Do you take suggestions?

Avatar image for dvader654
#5 Edited by dvader654 (44751 posts) -

@Metamania said:

No. OoT, no matter how good that game turned out to be, is the most overrated, overhyped Zelda game of all time, like how FFVII is overrated and overhyped to death.

Wow this is like the worst opinion of all time.

Avatar image for c_rakestraw
#6 Posted by c_rakestraw (14870 posts) -

I said it once and I'll say it again: These "X game is overrated" threads are what's really overrated. So boring and predictable.

Avatar image for 1PMrFister
#7 Posted by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

@c_rakestraw: Indeed. It's gotten to the point where even complaining about these threads is predictable in itself. Won't be long now before pointing out how predictable it is to point out how predictable "overrated" threads are becomes predictable.

OVERRATECEPTION!

Avatar image for gpuFX16
#8 Posted by gpuFX16 (1296 posts) -

@c_rakestraw said:

I said it once and I'll say it again: These "X game is overrated" threads are what's really overrated. So boring and predictable.

I was going to say it, but I stopped myself. Thanks c_rake.

Also, WW is my favorite Zelda. Opinions!

Avatar image for c_rakestraw
#9 Posted by c_rakestraw (14870 posts) -
@1PMrFister said:

@c_rakestraw: Indeed. It's gotten to the point where even complaining about these threads is predictable in itself. Won't be long now before pointing out how predictable it is to point out how predictable "overrated" threads are becomes predictable.

OVERRATECEPTION!

I'm tempted to make a dedicated thread for this stuff. The one for "modern gaming sucks" was a big hit, as I recall.

Avatar image for LoG-Sacrament
#10 Posted by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -

as an unabashed zelda fan, i'd still say that i'd be hard pressed to find a zelda plot that isn't predictable (even MM had very clear objectives that it stuck to). they pretty much always stick to classic quest structure (fetch this, rescue that). what separates them is theme and how that theme is communicated to the player. in wind waker, the theme is still link's fate as hero of hyrule, but it's communicated through the changing wind which is much more immediately noticeable than most of the series' applications of time.

i'd never call the overworld barren though. most of the islands look empty upon first glance, but they often hide underground caverns or other discoveries. finding out what's going to up next ties really well into the other spontaneous activities that help flesh out link's fate theme and nintendo's broader philosophy of games that are fun and immediately playable.

Avatar image for 1PMrFister
#11 Posted by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

@c_rakestraw said:
@1PMrFister said:

@c_rakestraw: Indeed. It's gotten to the point where even complaining about these threads is predictable in itself. Won't be long now before pointing out how predictable it is to point out how predictable "overrated" threads are becomes predictable.

OVERRATECEPTION!

I'm tempted to make a dedicated thread for this stuff. The one for "modern gaming sucks" was a big hit, as I recall.

I don't see how it would be any different from the standard "What game do you think is overrated?" threads that get posted here once every few months or so, but if you can make it work, go for it.

Avatar image for speedfreak48t5p
#12 Posted by speedfreak48t5p (12931 posts) -

@dvader654 said:

@Metamania said:

No. OoT, no matter how good that game turned out to be, is the most overrated, overhyped Zelda game of all time, like how FFVII is overrated and overhyped to death.

Wow this is like the worst opinion of all time.

This is the best post I've ever seen in my entire life.

Avatar image for Shinobishyguy
#13 Edited by Shinobishyguy (22928 posts) -

Well aren't you a special little snowflake OP

Avatar image for c_rakestraw
#14 Posted by c_rakestraw (14870 posts) -
@1PMrFister said:
@c_rakestraw said:
@1PMrFister said:

@c_rakestraw: Indeed. It's gotten to the point where even complaining about these threads is predictable in itself. Won't be long now before pointing out how predictable it is to point out how predictable "overrated" threads are becomes predictable.

OVERRATECEPTION!

I'm tempted to make a dedicated thread for this stuff. The one for "modern gaming sucks" was a big hit, as I recall.

I don't see how it would be any different from the standard "What game do you think is overrated?" threads that get posted here once every few months or so, but if you can make it work, go for it.

True... It would at least give me a reason to lock those other threads down, though (not to mention mock them).

Avatar image for Renegade_Fury
#15 Edited by Renegade_Fury (19910 posts) -

It's immensely overrated on the internet. Just like my friends, I thought it was garbage in 2003, and I think it's garbage in 2013.

Avatar image for ReddestSkies
#16 Posted by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

Immensely on the internet. Just like my friends, I thought it was garbage in 2003, and I think it's garbage in 2013.

Actually, WW got way too much hate in 2003 despite being quite possibly better than OOT (the best game ever, god's gift to gaming, the perfect gaming creation, the epitome of 3D gaming, the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be, everyone's #1 favourite game ever), and it's only years later that people are starting to see that, y'know, it may very well be better than OOT.

But then again, it's hard to keep putting OOT as #1 of all those oh-so-interesting "best games ever!" lists if WW is better. Groupthink obliges, let's keep hating on the cell-shading and sailing.

Avatar image for Renegade_Fury
#17 Edited by Renegade_Fury (19910 posts) -

@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

Immensely on the internet. Just like my friends, I thought it was garbage in 2003, and I think it's garbage in 2013.

Actually, WW got way too much hate in 2003 despite being quite possibly better than OOT (the best game ever, god's gift to gaming, the perfect gaming creation, the epitome of 3D gaming, the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be, everyone's #1 favourite game ever), and it's only years later that people are starting to see that, y'know, it may very well be better than OOT.

But then again, it's hard to keep putting OOT as #1 of all those oh-so-interesting "best games ever!" lists if WW is better. Groupthink obliges, let's keep hating on the cell-shading and sailing.

It's not better than OOT at all, and it got all the hate it deserved because WW is a giant step backwards in everyway from OOT and MM. Forget about the cell shading, because from the puzzles and difficulty, to the boring over world, it was a dumbed down experience. I'm convinced that the only reason people are liking it now is because they find the cell shading and cutesy artstyle charming in the brown and grey gaming world of today.

Avatar image for ReddestSkies
#19 Edited by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

Immensely on the internet. Just like my friends, I thought it was garbage in 2003, and I think it's garbage in 2013.

Actually, WW got way too much hate in 2003 despite being quite possibly better than OOT (the best game ever, god's gift to gaming, the perfect gaming creation, the epitome of 3D gaming, the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be, everyone's #1 favourite game ever), and it's only years later that people are starting to see that, y'know, it may very well be better than OOT.

But then again, it's hard to keep putting OOT as #1 of all those oh-so-interesting "best games ever!" lists if WW is better. Groupthink obliges, let's keep hating on the cell-shading and sailing.

It's not better than OOT at all, and it got all the hate it deserved because WW is a giant step backwards in everyway from OOT and MM. Forget about the cell shading, because from the puzzles and difficulty, to the boring over world, it was a dumbed down experience. I'm convinced that the only reason people are liking it now is because they find the cell shading and cutesy artstyle charming in the brown and grey gaming world of today.

So when I liked it in 2003, it must have been because of my psychic powers.

Avatar image for Renegade_Fury
#20 Posted by Renegade_Fury (19910 posts) -

@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

Immensely on the internet. Just like my friends, I thought it was garbage in 2003, and I think it's garbage in 2013.

Actually, WW got way too much hate in 2003 despite being quite possibly better than OOT (the best game ever, god's gift to gaming, the perfect gaming creation, the epitome of 3D gaming, the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be, everyone's #1 favourite game ever), and it's only years later that people are starting to see that, y'know, it may very well be better than OOT.

But then again, it's hard to keep putting OOT as #1 of all those oh-so-interesting "best games ever!" lists if WW is better. Groupthink obliges, let's keep hating on the cell-shading and sailing.

It's not better than OOT at all, and it got all the hate it deserved because WW is a giant step backwards in everyway from OOT and MM. Forget about the cell shading, because from the puzzles and difficulty, to the boring over world, it was a dumbed down experience. I'm convinced that the only reason people are liking it now is because they find the cell shading and cutesy artstyle charming in the brown and grey gaming world of today.

So when I liked it in 2003, it must have been because of my psychic powers.

No, I'd say it's probably because you fell for the charm. That, or you just have poor taste. :)

Avatar image for ReddestSkies
#21 Posted by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

No, I'd say it's probably because you fell for the charm. That, or you just have poor taste. :)

Yes, that's it! I was fooled by this game into liking it! I'm so glad that I've finally found someone who could tell me what I should and shouldn't like, so I never get fooled again. I'm playing XCOM: Enemy Within right now, should I like the new features or not?

Avatar image for Renegade_Fury
#22 Posted by Renegade_Fury (19910 posts) -
@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

No, I'd say it's probably because you fell for the charm. That, or you just have poor taste. :)

Yes, that's it! I was fooled by this game into liking it! I'm so glad that I've finally found someone who could tell me what I should and shouldn't like, so I never get fooled again. I'm playing XCOM: Enemy Within right now, should I like the new features or not?

No problem. A fat chunk of people value charm and emotion over gameplay mechanics and level design, so you're not alone. XCOM is straight up gameplay, so you should be good. :)

Avatar image for ReddestSkies
#23 Edited by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:
@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

No, I'd say it's probably because you fell for the charm. That, or you just have poor taste. :)

Yes, that's it! I was fooled by this game into liking it! I'm so glad that I've finally found someone who could tell me what I should and shouldn't like, so I never get fooled again. I'm playing XCOM: Enemy Within right now, should I like the new features or not?

No problem. A fat chunk of people value charm and emotion over gameplay mechanics and level design, so you're not alone. XCOM is straight up gameplay, so you should be good. :)

Man, you're so much better than me, Mr. All-Gameplay-No-Nonsense. Do you have a blog that I can follow?

(Not that I'm actually going to go in-depth here, but having played OOT and Wind Waker back-to-back 10 years ago, my conclusion was that WW had better gameplay, but slightly worse level design.) But disregard that, WW has nothing but charm and emotion, and those things are clearly inferior gaming features.

Avatar image for turtlethetaffer
#24 Edited by turtlethetaffer (18701 posts) -

Keep trying TC

Avatar image for Renegade_Fury
#25 Edited by Renegade_Fury (19910 posts) -

@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:
@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

No, I'd say it's probably because you fell for the charm. That, or you just have poor taste. :)

Yes, that's it! I was fooled by this game into liking it! I'm so glad that I've finally found someone who could tell me what I should and shouldn't like, so I never get fooled again. I'm playing XCOM: Enemy Within right now, should I like the new features or not?

No problem. A fat chunk of people value charm and emotion over gameplay mechanics and level design, so you're not alone. XCOM is straight up gameplay, so you should be good. :)

Man, you're so much better than me, Mr. All-Gameplay-No-Nonsense. Do you have a blog that I can follow?

(Not that I'm actually going to go in-depth here, but having played OOT and Wind Waker back-to-back 10 years ago, my conclusion was that WW had better gameplay, but slightly worse level design.) But disregard that, WW has nothing but charm and emotion, and those things are clearly inferior gaming features.

Nope, I barely have enough time to play as is, and I acknowledge my take on gaming would piss too many people off anyway. :)

They have essentially the same gamplay mechanics except that WW's is smoother and allows you to circle. It doesn't matter though, because nothing in the game can come close to challenging you, and the dungeons themselves are barren waste lands. TP did a better job at using those mechanics to its potential.

Avatar image for ReddestSkies
#26 Posted by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

Nope, I barely have enough time to play as is, and I acknowledge my take on gaming would piss too many people off anyway. :)

They have essentially the same gamplay mechanics except that WW's is smoother and allows you to circle. It doesn't matter though, because nothing in the game can come close to challenging you, and the dungeons themselves are barren waste lands.

I must have had a corrupted OOT cartridge, because when I played it, "challenging" surely never came to mind.

Avatar image for Renegade_Fury
#27 Edited by Renegade_Fury (19910 posts) -

@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

Nope, I barely have enough time to play as is, and I acknowledge my take on gaming would piss too many people off anyway. :)

They have essentially the same gamplay mechanics except that WW's is smoother and allows you to circle. It doesn't matter though, because nothing in the game can come close to challenging you, and the dungeons themselves are barren waste lands.

I must have had a corrupted OOT cartridge, because when I played it, "challenging" surely never came to mind.

You missed my point. The advantages that WW's gameplay provided were useless because there was nothing worth using them on. As for overall challenge, they're both easy games, but WW takes home the gold when it comes to cupcake difficulty. I remember the lack of difficulty being one of the biggest criticisms held against it in '03, and especially after coming off MM.

Avatar image for S0lidSnake
#28 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

BTW. This is the same guy who made the 'Batman AC is overrated' and 'Red Dead Redemption' is overrated threads. Thats all he does. Dont give him the attention he craves.

Avatar image for ReddestSkies
#29 Posted by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

You missed my point. The advantages that WW's gameplay provided were useless because there was nothing worth using them on. As for overall challenge, they're both easy games, but WW takes home the gold when it comes to cupcake difficulty. I remember the lack of difficulty being one of the biggest criticisms held against it in '03, and especially after coming off MM.

Bleh, between an easy game and a really easy game, I'll nominate the one with the better core gameplay as the one with the better core gameplay, even if its core gameplay superiorities are not mandatory to complete the game.

Avatar image for Renegade_Fury
#30 Edited by Renegade_Fury (19910 posts) -

@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

You missed my point. The advantages that WW's gameplay provided were useless because there was nothing worth using them on. As for overall challenge, they're both easy games, but WW takes home the gold when it comes to cupcake difficulty. I remember the lack of difficulty being one of the biggest criticisms held against it in '03, and especially after coming off MM.

Bleh, between an easy game and a really easy game, I'll nominate the one with the better core gameplay as the one with the better core gameplay, even if its core gameplay superiorities are not mandatory to complete the game.

And I'll take the one that uses its gameplay to the best of its abilities, and all while providing more combat and puzzles throughout. Wasted potential is just that: wasted. That, and it's not like WW's core gameplay was anything more than marginally better than OOT's, and again, WW's was dumbed down if you put it next to MM's and its various gameplay mechanics.

Avatar image for ReddestSkies
#31 Posted by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

@Renegade_Fury said:

@ReddestSkies said:

Bleh, between an easy game and a really easy game, I'll nominate the one with the better core gameplay as the one with the better core gameplay, even if its core gameplay superiorities are not mandatory to complete the game.

And I'll take the one that uses its gameplay to the best of its abilities, and all while providing more combat and puzzles throughout. Wasted potential is just that: wasted. That, and it's not like WW's core gameplay was anything more than marginally better than OOT's, and again, it was dumbed down if you put it next to MM's and its various gameplay mechanics.

Well, I did say that I wasn't going to go in-depth, so that's as far as I'll go. I <3 WW (it's at least my thousandth favorite game), and we'll have to agree to disagree.

Avatar image for drekula2
#32 Edited by drekula2 (3349 posts) -

@firefox59 said:

I'm sorry but your opinion on this one is off. It seems like you never gave it a chance. The game is amazing.

i played it from beginning to end, no matter how boring some parts got.

@Shinobishyguy said:

Well aren't you a special little snowflake OP

yep

@ReddestSkies said:

Thank you for enlightening us with another "X is overrated" thread. I can't wait for the next one. Do you take suggestions?

you're welcome, and yes

i'm not saying Wind Waker is bad though. I'm just saying Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Link's Awakening and A Link to the Past are all better.

Avatar image for Renegade_Fury
#33 Edited by Renegade_Fury (19910 posts) -

@ReddestSkies said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

@ReddestSkies said:

Bleh, between an easy game and a really easy game, I'll nominate the one with the better core gameplay as the one with the better core gameplay, even if its core gameplay superiorities are not mandatory to complete the game.

And I'll take the one that uses its gameplay to the best of its abilities, and all while providing more combat and puzzles throughout. Wasted potential is just that: wasted. That, and it's not like WW's core gameplay was anything more than marginally better than OOT's, and again, it was dumbed down if you put it next to MM's and its various gameplay mechanics.

Well, I did say that I wasn't going to go in-depth, so that's as far as I'll go. I <3 WW (it's at least my thousandth favorite game), and we'll have to agree to disagree.

Fair enough. Zelda debates tend to drag on forever anyway. :P

Avatar image for Pedro
#34 Posted by Pedro (29579 posts) -

@dvader654 said:

@Metamania said:

No. OoT, no matter how good that game turned out to be, is the most overrated, overhyped Zelda game of all time, like how FFVII is overrated and overhyped to death.

Wow this is like the worst opinion of all time.

You disagreeing does not make it the worst opinion of all time. And he is right. :)

Avatar image for thebest31406
#35 Posted by thebest31406 (3775 posts) -

@Metamania said:

No. OoT, no matter how good that game turned out to be, is the most overrated, overhyped Zelda game of all time, like how FFVII is overrated and overhyped to death.

Avatar image for dvader654
#36 Edited by dvader654 (44751 posts) -

@Pedro said:

@dvader654 said:

@Metamania said:

No. OoT, no matter how good that game turned out to be, is the most overrated, overhyped Zelda game of all time, like how FFVII is overrated and overhyped to death.

Wow this is like the worst opinion of all time.

You disagreeing does not make it the worst opinion of all time. And he is right. :)

You just confirmed its the worst opinion of all time. :P

And yeah WW is one of the lesser Zelda's which still makes it one of the best games of all time.

Avatar image for drekula2
#37 Posted by drekula2 (3349 posts) -

As for OOT, I think it's a great game and in context of the it's release date, there was no better game that year. Is it the best Zelda game? No, but it's one of the best, IMO.

Avatar image for GAJY_FILTH
#38 Posted by GAJY_FILTH (112 posts) -

I'm not a Zelda fan, I liked Links awakening on the Gameboy, WW and MM, that's a bout it.

I don't like dungeons in Zelda, I like the open world stuff, why I think MM is the best in the series because it is mostly side quests.

Avatar image for widdowson91
#39 Posted by widdowson91 (1248 posts) -

I'm gonna have to disagree with you. The Wind Waker is ace.

Avatar image for deactivated-57d8401f17c55
#40 Posted by deactivated-57d8401f17c55 (7221 posts) -

I gave it another chance with the HD version, and it's still just as crap as it ever was. Didn't cost me anything though.

Twilight Princess was golden, but the internet thinks that one is crap, go figure.

Skyward sword could've been too but there were a looot of bad decisions made with that game. Although it was still far more palatable than Wind Waker.

Avatar image for ghstbstr
#41 Edited by ghstbstr (8790 posts) -

It is a game made for kids and I thinking that most of you are probably adults, and I think that most of you expected way too much from this game.

Avatar image for turtlethetaffer
#42 Edited by turtlethetaffer (18701 posts) -

@ghstbstr: Made for kids? Right... What games are mature enough for adults?

Avatar image for juboner
#43 Edited by juboner (1183 posts) -

This game was great I never played it when it first came out, way to upset with art style but now i can accept it and for a game from early 2000's it is great. I dont like the sailing and the small islands but all my gripes for this game are very small and it just plays wonderful. I think its over hyped bc of all the reviewers memories and nostalgia, like always right. Another thing I think people tend to compare zelda to skyrim in terms of how much content there is to do like sidequest and the size of the world. But you just cant do that bethesda makes one of a kind over the top huge rpg, would be awesome though if nintendo could work on giving us more content but maybe they dont have the resources to.

Just read some of your post about being easy and I would agree on the original being to easy back then. I played on hero mode bc most zelda's are on the easy side and the only time I had any trouble was very early on with like 3 to 4 stars. Hero mode is def the way to play this game I would have not enjoyed it nearly as much without it. Oh yeah and I wish the dungeons where harder they are easy but again the over all experience on hero mode is top notch.

I have not replayed OoT and MM since they first came out so I will not compare it to them, both where excellent by the way.

Avatar image for m0zart
#44 Posted by m0zart (11568 posts) -

Zelda is my favorite game series, yet the Wind Waker is very near the bottom of my list of Zelda games based on esteem. It's a good game and I enjoyed playing it, but it wasn't really the good time I had had up to that point with the series. The year it was released, I was actually a good bit more fond of Knights of the Old Republic. To have a new and original console Zelda game released in a year and it not be my top game in that year was an oddity.

Avatar image for Randolph
#45 Edited by Randolph (10542 posts) -

@ghstbstr said:

It is a game made for kids and I thinking that most of you are probably adults, and I think that most of you expected way too much from this game.

No, it really isn't. It's a game made for adults who were kids when Zelda first arrived on the scene. The kids are playing Call of Duty, swearing into their mic, using racial slangs, and dropping F bombs so they can feel like grown ups. They wouldn't at all get all the little winks and nods in a game like Wind Waker that only fans could really appreciate. It should be noted I say this as someone who regards Wind Waker as one of the worst, if not the worst, modern Zelda game ever.

Heck, I promise you the better majority of people who will buy and play Mario 3D World this week are people in my age range of 32 or so.