Why can't video game demons STOP looking like teenage anime heartthrobs? :(

Dante from Devil May Cry and numerous other supposed "demons" who are player characters in the gaming world are...well, a joke in my opinion. That's putting it lightly. No horns, no forked tails, no snouts, there's just ZERO characters who are actually freaking demons from hell. They're all just a bunch of sugar-coated sprinkle candy fairy wannabes. The demons who actually look the part are always bosses or antagonists. :(

Any thoughts? Please know this is just my opinion.

Not all the time, we have to follow the stereotype. Sometimes, we have to create something different especially in making video game characters. There's nothing wrong in not following the stereotype sometimes but the type of character should remain as it is IMO.

I quite agree. Having to fight skinny boys with girly hairdos and fashionista clothes is just embarrassing... -and it's even more embarrassing if theyre the game's hero...

in western games we have real bosses, massive brutes with massive weapons. Now that's impressive.

I understand why they do it though. They don't need to make protagonists interesting, they need to make them relatable, so they model them on their target demographic. Game devs aren't stupid. They've done enough market research to figure out that us gamers are all teenage boys with straightened hair and skinny jeans, and we just need something to when we're not writing Death-note fan fiction or touring with our respective boybands.

Stopped reading just to post this

/thread *unless you've got someother bs to post OP

@sanghelle56: Have you played Demons' Souls?

Because Japan is still convinced that the audience of videogames is composed of obnoxious teenagers. Next question?

Dante from Devil May Cry do transform into a Christian Looking Demon and his power are limited when in the human world... didn't pay attention to the story ?

Also I like the human hiding a demon in themselves.

I also prefer japanease ennemy. USA Boss are always big muscular and try to be menacing while a japanease Boss is a boss because of his abilities, cruauty or strategy.

Using Dante as your example killed your thread before it even started.

@mighty-lu-bu: No but I've heard of it.

How about those in Japan minus the mobile (smartphone and tablet) crowd?

Most of the games mentioned seem to be for consoles.

I would imagine the average Japanese adult works 12-hour days, 6 days a week. Sunday is usually the only day off, at least the last time I visited there. It would make sense if gamers there are the younger variety....they have more free time.

If I worked 12-hour days, 6 days a week, I wouldn't be in the mood to game.

I think Japanese devs simply have the hots for young men who look like girls... They make their women look like sexbots (Nier Automata for example) and boys are made to look girly and submissive...

@Enragedhydra: Yeah sorry, I was joking. I don't sing in a boyband or write Deathnote fan fiction. Interesting statistic though, I would've guessed younger

If you don't like what artists and game designers choose to do with their creative freedom you can always, like, play other games. Go play Doom or something. There are plenty of people who like the games and artstyles that you don't. That's the thing that makes gaming great. No matter what type of games you like, no matter how niche or whatever, you can find them.

I think you've cooked up a non-issue. I can think of veeery few demons portrayed in the manner you describe. And to all the anti-japanese weirdos in our community, you clearly haven't played many Japanese games if you think the demons are all effeminate boy-band models.

Agreed.

Which may I add, isn't really an issue anyway, because it's a thing called creators intent. Art should not be shaped towards ignorant preferences. And sure the slender, well kept man is a cultural interest in some respects.

However, no one throwing these complaints and insults seem to have a problem with American developers obsession with G.I.Joe-buzz-cut-steroid-men like William Blazkowicz, and Marcus Fenix lol what hypocrites!

If we can put up with your garbage taste in character design, perhaps you should keep a more open mind yourselves.

@RSM-HQ: Jeez my intent isn't to offend anyone. I just made this post 'cause there's no player character demons that look like DEMONS. Even with the pic you showed me of Dante, most fans know of him as a human young-looking dude with white hair. If I went overboard with calling him a heartthrob, I apologize.

Just from the fact that they look human in general, I can't relate to these characters as heroes. But that's just me, I know 99% of everyone else is just fine with the protagonists from DMC, Persona, Devil Survivor and others. Seriously I'm not hating. I just can't believe that in all the years the industry's been around, there's no heroes that are complete no-f**ks-given monsters from hell that kill, destroy, take no prisoners and look by default like this:

@xantufrog: Sorry. And no I haven't played these types of games. Metroid's the only anime-esque title I've played to this day.

I didn't mean to be a d*ck. I'm just frustrated that there's no game player characters that I can see as or really call "my hero." Everyone has one, be it Master Chief or Lara Croft. But I literally have none. :(

I had it very rough growing up, and didn't take gaming seriously as a passion until I discovered Halo 2 at 14. I was bullied in high school just 'cause I like the Arbiter. He's the only character that's been an example of who I can relate to, not just demons. A completely freaky grotesque space monster with a sword of plasma? I was sold.

By now I've sold the majority of my games where you're a human. It's come to the point where I've downloaded Blender and Unity to become an indie dev and make games of this sort on my own, since there might as well be zero. I have NOTHING against people who otherwise like being virtual humans shooting up monsters. All I'm saying is that there needs to be more games where you're a non-human monster, alien, robot, demon, etc. There's actually a nicely done YouTube clip on this topic.

I'm not a misanthrope. I'm just part of the minority who sees monsters as more than just "the bad guys, they need to die, they're evil" blah blah blah. If I came off as rude with this whole thing on demons that was not my intention. I've been judged my whole life, and I wanted to just say "why can't there be more of this?!?":

@sanghelle56: It's less about you at this point and more the ignorant replies I'm reading here, showing a very and vocal discrimination, Americans are not the only ones who use these Forums and wish some kept that in mind when posting. I don't really think GD is really intended to get racist just because some people here are_

But outside of the Devil Trigger Dante which I've already provided, also known as (True Form Dante) I'll continue with what you're more after based on the fantasy art you're posting

Red Arremer (Demon's Blazon-Demons Crest)/ Capcom/ Japan

Character has returned in the last two Marvel Versus Capcom games and has his own game series on Nintendo systems. Is that Demon enough for you?

@sanghelle56: I agree with RSM-HQ, I didn't mean to make you feel like a dick. Except for my opening line, my comment was more directed at the mob of vaguely offensive anti-japanese development pile-on that we got. You're entitled to want things to be different.

you don't sound that open minded there tbh lol.

also marcus fenix is awesome. gears is a poorer game without him

because they are targeting young males because they are fooled into spending more money on crap

@Macutchi: I actually like the Gears of War games. Bought a 360 and really enjoyed Gears, GOW2, not so much GOW3 but hey, no developers perfect; was using Gears of War as an example of a cliche character design (Americans) do very commonly 'roided buzz-cut'.

you don't sound that open minded there tbh lol.

How so? I don't make threads dedicated to how I hate a certain countries interests. Check the context you highlighted. I put up with those mentioned character designs, despite not being my preference. I like and enjoy games from around the world, and the art doesn't always click with me. But that's fine, art is very subjective. So seems you're grasping at straws to defend these racist remarks made in the thread. For whatever reason that may be

If you took a read at this thread overall, and some of the posts you'd understand why it's annoying for Users from different parts of the world like myself. And the thread is a great example of discriminative behaviour on GS yet again.

If this was posted in some place like System Wars or Off-Topic I'd expect this level of stupidity, yet here (in Games Discussion) it's just makes me want to come here less. We can argue and disagree about games, that's fine, and I enjoy the discussions, but I like chatting with Gamers, not Racist Jerks!

yeah i like gears too (1-3). i really liked marcus fenix. his character style perfectly suited the style of the games and i feel the series lost a lot without him. it's similar to splinter cell without michael ironside - just not the same. i commented because the insinuation from you was my taste in characters was garbage because i liked marcus.

i'm not trying to defend any racist remarks, reading back through the thread i'm curious who you think is being racist? i'm not american either btw

@Macutchi: I would state Dante from Devil May Cry is a very beloved character as well, and many a reason people play those games but more to the point I accept all these characters are tropes of somekind, but on the subject is that's not a bad thing if that was the creators intent.

Yet, for what it's worth, though I'm sick of jacked up characters with shaved heads I did always like the art style of Gears of War. Nice use of color contrast and armor designs have a nice style. Lastly 'The Cole Train' Augustus, will never be forgotten.

i'm curious who you think is being racist?

I'm not one for pointing names, but posts don't lie and that's all that needs to be stated on my part

i'm not american either btw

No, I think you once stated being from England or Scotland, my apologies for the confusion on both. I've been to Scotland before very cloudy. But never the other, from my understanding they have something like Canada and the United States in which they're technically the same country but have drastically different cultures and beliefs.

Because 1) That's just in Japanese games and 2) It's not the 80's. Back then, big muscular hero's were popular (Fist of the North Star for example) then millennials grew up and now effeminate is in and masculine is out.

if you won't actually call people out for being racist you also shouldn't be accusing people of defending racist remarks, particularly when it was abundantly clear i wasn't. the only person i can see who's posted something that could potentially be classed as racism is henrythefifth. report him if you think he's a racist and if those kind of comments make you want to come on here less

stop playing Japanese games and they will.

haha why am I not surprised someone is defending Japanese games like three posts into the thread. Ah well, different strokes for different folks.

I rather like Dante, by the way, I thought of all the cliche Japanese characters (aesthetically speaking), he is the best.

*not "anti-Japanese" anything, mind you, (Akira Kurosawa and Takashi Miike are two of my favorite directors) but you have to admit that demon design by the Japanese relative to demon design by Western developers is fairly different, with the former generally making them more human looking and pleasing to the eye, while the West is more...biblical? Horns and hooves, red skin and fire, etc.

You can throw all the exceptions you want at me, show me pictures of the rare Demon-demon but that's just how I see it.

And you can't mention anti-Japanese weirdos without talking about the pro-Japanese weirdos...

Now who is being close-minded? :(

System Wars is that way, good sir, keep the haterade over there.

I think the problem here is that the people that like the Japanese design are taking this a little too personal. Some people just don't like it! Plain and simple. Has nothing to do with Japan, Japanese culture, etc, some people just like their demons to look like monsters and not high school pretty boys.

Conversely, some people (and I am one of them) don't like the 'roided out look of some Western designs. I thought BJ was all right in his latest incarnation (realistic, he wasn't huge, just a but buff) but yeah Marcus Fenix was ridiculous for sure.

I think we can all agree that this is the best demon design though (joking):P

@Macutchi: You know what. I admit when putting words out of bound, and emotions clearly got the best of me. "Racist" was a harsh word even for the comments here, I was pretty mad when making those posts after reading many the above. What I should rephrase it as, is "culturally ignorant"/ or/ "cultural bias".

As for yourself, never made the claim you was being a racist, and not sure why you're throwing that as something I've stated. However does seem you've been very eager to lightly defend the remarks regardless, and don't care for it personally. It's part of the problem, not any sort of middle ground/ solution.

@mrbojangles25: Think it was very apparent I gave examples of demons that look like demons in a very decent manner based on TCs description, don't like my examples? well you failed to find better :P

As for how serious I took this whole thread. . If it didn't become-out the way this thread did I'd have been far more light hearted; but some of us have Asain backgrounds and shouldn't have to feel like Black Sheep for it, just because some Users enjoy mocking countries they have little knowledge about. We're in the end of 2017, discrimination should be far more rare than this, espeically on a games media website_

Because Japan is still convinced that the audience of videogames is composed of obnoxious teenagers. Next question?

I think Japanese devs simply have the hots for young men who look like girls... They make their women look like sexbots (Nier Automata for example) and boys are made to look girly and submissive...

If I made a thread right now stating how much I dislike American developers and how the audience eats up steroid abusing morons licking AK 47s, I guarantee you at least one-or-two would throw a complaint. But sure you guessed? I don't/ wouldn't, I'm not an Asshole! Plus I most likely enjoy the game I just referenced lol. Just as my chat with Mac is currently going with Gears of War. A series I have a lot of love for.

You shouldn't defend the level of trash being posted here. If you don't like something? oh well, better luck for the next game you jump into; regardless of the developers or publishers country of origin. But don't blame that entire country for a handful of developers (or more) creative choices, that has an audience enjoying that look and style, and not expect to upset someone on a Forum, that very well could have some people from Japan, or even grew up in Japan, or other Asian background with similar cultures and interests.

Art is subjective. It is, and should be that simple_

As for the last part, is that the Horned Reaper from Dungeon Keeper? Looks like a movie_

I think I'm fine with Dante's visual design because that really fits his happy-go-lucky character.

i didn't say you said i was racist, you said i was defending racism. which i find offensive.

and, to be clear, i was pointing out the hypocrisy of you calling someone else's taste in characters garbage whilst in the same sentence claiming to be open minded to other people's taste. that is not "very eager to defend the remarks regardless" or "part of the problem." stop trying to claim it was anything beyond what it was

@Macutchi: If I feel a certain style of character design is "garbage", I will state it as such, it's that simple. G.I. Joes just ain't for everyone

And I'm not mocking the entire country for that style at least but the art itself. Do you see the difference? If you didn't just try and see faults in my messages you'd have noticed my recurring theme of "Art is subjective".

Or are both mocking an entire demographics interest and one recurring art style the same thing to you?

If anyone's making outlandish assumption claims here, it's you. Though what I'm claiming on you is harsh it seems very apparent from your comments, it isn't on topic and targeting someone taken back from the volume of tone. But please continue this pointless argument that I've already apologised for taking too far, it's showing what you've really come here for Mac.

Perhaps you just like Gears of War and seeing my comment was like "hold up" but seems from context, you're more interested in making the argument worse. When I simply used the G.I. Joe man as an example of a cultural favored style that is also considered overly 'generic'.

Which it is, but it clearly has a following so I accept it for what it is. Yet can still think it's personally garbage. It goes without saying Gears would be far more appealing 'to me' if every man didn't have a shrunken head/ buzz cut/ and arms the size of a freakin tree trunk. Those that have issues with well kept slim men have problems, when they enjoy just as stupid a design themselves? That's the example explanation I was going for, now you have it in greater detail; perhaps you understand what I was getting at

@mrbojangles25: 16 posts in, not 3. And if I'm supposed to feel bad for making a very simple and factual statement that not all demons in Japanese games look like effeminate male humans you can forget it. I like how you go on to tell me to not bother providing examples that support my point. Sounds like we can have a productive conversation then *eyeroll*

As for the "pro Japanese weirdos" - you're setting up a stance for me that I don't have. I'm not here to personally defend tentacle porn or games featuring overly sexualized schoolgirls. It doesn't have anything to do with my concern that sometimes (this thread isn't the best example), mention of Japanese games brings out some very strong stereotypes (as if all Japanese people like the aforementioned content, for example) that get expressed in inappropriate ways. You have no idea how many openly racist remarks I've had to delete in my time here. It's disturbing - this thread is not an example of such extremes, thankfully.

Lol, I can see that. Devil May Cry was fun. Getting nostalgic thinking about the good ol times.

and therein lies the problem: people seem to be making this into a race issue when there is none. I know a lot of people that hate sushi, but no one has accused them of being racists. Funny how it takes A.) the internet and B.) the subject of Japanese design in fictional characters to get people riled up.

With that said, anyone can do the Japanese aesthetic; all they have to do is follow some fundamental guidelines. You don't need to be Asian; you can be white, black, purple...whatever. So don't go claiming that when someone doesn't like Japanese design choices, it insults your (the royal "your", not you specifically :P ) heritage. I mean who is the real racist? The person hiding their fanboyism behind their cultural identity, or the guy just saying he doesn't like something?

Man, talk about escalation. Who knew a mild criticism/observation could lead to this?

@RSM-HQ: it's from the awesomely terrible or terribly awesome Tom Cruise movie "Legend". The devil is played by the great Tim Curry :D who, as you have said in other examples, looks a bit 'roided out :)

"They're all just a bunch of sugar-coated sprinkle candy fairy wannabes"

Yeah, i mean such a babyface Dante is, right? Oh yeah! You haven't ACTUALLY played the damn game have you!?

@mrbojangles25:

as you have said in other examples, looks a bit 'roided out

I suppose I'm just not a fan of the ogre men look. But it's not just the US for this style, also just not a big fan of Street Fighters bodybuilder look either (Street Fighter is JPN).

I like Chun Li, one of my favorite characters of all time, when she looks like her II, III, V look which is a difficult balance for not being heavy on upper body. Didn't like her look in Alpha and IV or some of the Udon art. For immersion trained Fighters and gifted people in general should look ready to go, but Bodybuilders are not Fighters and a big difference between the two in mass, health, and ability. Bodybuilders in the real world usually only have mass but this maybe going in a bigger discussion than intended.

I understand strong men and women is an appeal to those that usually like American Football, American Wrestling, and old Action movies, but personally it's just not for me as a stylistic choice in art. And it's fine for those that do enjoy it, even if it's encouraging poor health. Yet my point was a comparison of styles beloved in certain regions and countries. Yet are tropes that many can find fault in_

Really wish I summed it up in better context than I had, but emotions got the best of me so I did go on a rant early-on and made some wild claims that went too far. And though I still dislike how some of these messages are wrote, should have taken a minute or two longer before posting in anger, and rethink/ restructure my sentences.

@mrbojangles25: again, I'm not saying anything in *this* thread was racist. If it was, I would have deleted and moderated. Believe me, there have been some openly racist anti-japanese remarks on here aplenty. My initial comment was made with that history in mind, especially for some users... not accusing any of the posts in here of being so simply because they are against the design choices being discussed. FYI, I think Dante looks like ass and I have no interest in the Persona, Titus, etc art style. Doesnt appeal to me either.

i get what you're saying, i'm still unsure from your replies whether you get what i'm saying though lol.

i don't have an particular characterpredilection, i'm no fan of the meat head gi joe character. gears is probably the one game with that style of character i really enjoyed. but if you think those characters were garbage then fine. i may argue against it but i won't take offence to it like you have in this thread.

at the risk of going round in circles here let's just leave it, it's clearly a sensitive subject for you. i'm not saying you have some kind of persecution complex but you do seem to almost purposely misconstrue people's words for an excuse to jump on your soapbox and start hurling round claims of racism, discrimination and ignorance