Why are people retroactively hating on old Bethesda games?

I feel like there is this new trend to basically say Bethesda has never been good at making games and every game they made is trash. It’s one thing to hate on Bethesda for their recent screw ups but another to go back and say every game they made was garbage and we were just too stupid to see it back then

as an example i saw this thread from 2014 a full 4 years after New Vegas came out and 8 years after Fallout 3 explaining why New Vegas was better and I fell 2/3 of the comments were saying 3 was better. Now a days everyone and their grandmother thinks new Vegas is better and if that thread came out now it’d be all ‘**** Bethesda’ and ‘Bethesda never understood Fallout’ and such

Again it’s one thing to hate on Bethesda now but it’s another to say all their previous games sucked because Bethesda sucks now so they always sucked

There isn't anything the internet is better at doing than creating bandwagons.

But Fallout NV is better than Fallout 3 :).

It's probably to do with the gaming media.

Basically, even though gamers love to hate the gaming media, they do take their word (especially grouped) as the truth, coupled with a marketing campaign (with many websites acting as an extension of PR) influencing them into believing new thing is the best thing ever.

Once that spell has fizzled out, people think more objectively.

In some cases though, you do just get people hating for the sake of hating.

Nah, that's more in line with Electronic Arts, and while I think they've made better than "trash" certainly do not value EA very highly. The best games they own was made outside the companies iron grip. Respawn do a fairly decent job and even then the games they make are always hit and miss. Fallen Order is basically a 6/10 game people rate higher because the Star Wars factor. And while Apex was mildly fun I stopped when the season adverts wouldn't go away_

It’s one thing to hate on Bethesda for their recent screw ups but

No buts!

On Bethesda, recent isn't a very accurate word. They've been screwing up a whole lot even before Fall Out 76 was announced. That was namely a wake-up call to fanbois that things ain't getting better.

Fall Out 4 was the only Bethesda Fall Out I got some fun from 'gunplay was good' the game itself was mediocre and stopped after beating the main questline. My typical Fall Out mentality- The engine has aged poorly, NPCs are dull, and couldn't give a care for anyone in that world.

As a developer they've got some good games from decades ago and honestly do not rate Fall Out in that tier, they're the developers lower effort/ and uglier The Elder Scroll offerings.

And on that note TES over the entries have streamlined its RPG depth-appeal into an adventure simulator; and now we're left with seeing all the mechanical drawbacks. Dungeons and the wide world is better than ever but now at the cost of seeing all the cracks.

The argument I see fans throw out is "mods fix it". . well. . . No, they don't.

While glitches and bugs can be narrowed down, textures improved, and Sora added into the world. . the core gameplay loop is extremely hollow, and has been for sometime. I enjoyed Skyrim for awhile, had my fill. Would I replay it? Absolutely not. Better RPGs that don't require a shopping list of Nexus Mods to get working are on offer. And frankly are more fun to play.

Now a days everyone and their grandmother thinks new Vegas is better and if that thread came out now it’d be all ‘**** Bethesda’ and ‘Bethesda never understood Fallout’ and such

If a friend asked my impressions; think neither are worth playing honestly. They're poorly programmed and mechanically flawed games. If you like writing/ story? Sure New Vegas is way more appealing but couldn't recommend either over say The Outer Worlds, a game I've yet to play but seems to lack all the baggage and roaches Fall Out 3 and New Vegas have.

Again it’s one thing to hate on Bethesda now but it’s another to say all their previous games sucked because Bethesda sucks now so they always sucked

Bethesda have its good games in my view but I never placed them on this pillar of gaming greatness a few others have. Morrowind and Oblivion (Shivering Isles) are fun to create a build, kill NPCs and dungeon raid.

And while many use Fall Out 76 as the excuse; my main drawback is as a publisher they've made some odd choices namely- firing Nakamura Ikumi kun for "creative differences with ZeniMax/ Bethesda" basically killing Tango GameWorks mid development of Nakamura kuns 'dream project' Ghostwire Tokyo.

Do I want Bethesda to make good games again? Absolutely, what moron wants bad games from anybody! However as the company expands, fires talent for shady reasons, and makes many other terrible choices I just don't see it happening in the near future.

My hype level for The Elder Scrolls VI is a fat zero, and that's kinda sad.

@RSM-HQ: So please explain why only know, after nearly 10 years are people only NOW shitting on bethesda games for their game design? Again even just 5 years ago people preferred 3 over NV

Because the gaming "community" loves to hate.

@mj0807: I haven't seen anyone bad-mouthing "old" Bethesda games. Pretty much just sticking to their business practices (which are terrible) and Fallout 76.

With that said, there is a very small demographic that dislike anything as recent as TES: Oblivion because it was a huge departure from TES Morrowind.

Some people also, for whatever reason, dislike the super amazing awesome shooter that are the Wolfenstein reboots. But I wouldn't exactly call those "old" like some other titles.

Explain what? You blissfully ignoring opinions. I will agree it's more popular now to trash Bethesda than ever before, however it hasn't exactly been a new subject, not at all.

Again even just 5 years ago people preferred 3 over NV

What a load of nonsense. I've seen it plenty, and myself have crapped on Fall Out for years!

Fallout 4: The best one in the series

Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

Starfield could be a generic sci-fi equivalent of Skyrim

Fallout 3 or New Vegas

fallout 3 not as good as fallout new vegas

What does Bethesda do right?

Fallout 76 can be the next Fallout 3

Fallout 4 or Bloodborne?

I really hope Bethesda takes their time with Skyrim : ES V

That enough links for you? One of these is even nine years old!

And they're just the rational conversations and statements in Games Discussion, I'm sure the looser-tongued users on System-Wars have had a field day about Bethesda for well over a decade at least.

@RSM-HQ: literally a couple of your threads illustrate my point.

In this thread one person rather 3 as the best followed by 4 and NV. One person then response he'd put NV in 2nd

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/fallout-4-the-best-one-in-the-series-33427433/

I'm not saying Bethesda never got any hate before F76 or that everybody loved all their games. I was even aware 4 was not very popular when it came out and tbh I do think it is the weakest Bethesda game of the main bethesda titles. However now a days it is New Vegas is a masterpiece and Bethesda Fallout is garbage and Obsidian should make Fallout forever and forever. I have even seen people claim Bethesda sabotaged Obsidian because if there is anything in a multi-million dollar company's best interest it is ruining one of their own games that they are publishing or that Bethesda is jealous Obsidian made a better game in 6 months than they have ever made. The idea that NV is a masterpiece (not saying it isn't) and that 3 is hot garbage is a recent trend

@mj0807:

literally a couple of your threads illustrate my point

I disagree, fully aware what I linked. And all the threads show a divide to some extent. You stated and assumed a universal agreement that one game was once measured in ignorance. And it's showed to be otherwise.

A few people will praise Fall Out 3, I bet most those people still do. However, quite a few people also like New Vegas more. And some like none.

If you cannot accept that maybe other people are not the problem, but you refusing to see the broader scope.

fallout 4 and fallout 76 sucked imo

Gamers for whatever reason love to hate on anything, its an extremely toxic fan base for the most part. And once that hate train starts rolling no amount of reason or logic will stop it.

I disagree, cannot throw all Gamers under the same hood.

This is Games Discussion not System-Wars. Make a valid case for why people shouldn't be boycotting Bethesda in 2020 and we'll take it from there.

Myself and sure many on GD are more than willing to have a conversation about it.

@RSM-HQ:I didnt say F3 was universally more loved than NV. But he amount of hate 3 gets is much more than a few years ago. If that thread was made today everyone would say NV is the only true fallout. I never said 3 was universally loved my quote was 2/3 of the responses were in favor of F3 over NV. There were a lot NV supporters but it felt like most were saying 3 was better. You are attacking a straw man

How about you find me a video praising Fallout 3 within the last 4 years. The last video I saw praising it was a 2 hour video by Many a True Nerd

Here are videos that bash Bethesda Fallout endlessly (whether deserving or not)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLJ1gyIzg78

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8U4k2Ik6yk&t=805s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGjTtMQwHOM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVdYZ3iT5ZY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kRRYgf54oM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dHnCTGD26Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amtsN-NRqwM

Again not saying that Bethesda was universally praised but this is a whole other level

@mj0807:

I didnt say F3 was universally more loved than NV

Different words, same terminology. Are you really going to spin your own message? You brought it up and then refused to accept it. I recommend not continuing that question if you do not enjoy answers.

If that thread was made today everyone would say NV is the only true fallout

Don't know about that, I know a few on this forum that love Fall Out 3, granted am not one of those people but they do exist. And I respect the taste they have. Your theory is based on wild assumption, not fact. And assume you are making these statements out of anger for some of the more immature opinions trashing Bethesda software legacy as of late and considering it mass perception. Over the truth of, vocal minority.

You are attacking a straw man

"Attacking" is an extreme statement ser. I recommend you calm yourself and stick about gaming and the overall discussion. You asked a question. I gave answers, and many sources to correct your assumption, and you didn't like that. It's not my problem.

How about you find me a video praising Fallout 3 within the last 4 years.

All I did was Google and found this, it's from 2019, has over 11k views_

"Fall Out 3 is my favorite game of all time"

*You keep demanding I find you evidence and I supply. Some of what you gathered is even tagged as 'parody'/ gathering some dank memes no one is even taken seriously by hipsters and poor comedians. You can find a rant dank meme mocking anything on Youtube. But what do they actually say in the video is what should be taken with value. And sure some of those make valid points, however the overall perception I get isn't well-received.

As I see it, and as have been mentioning constantly. You refuse to see the whole because you only look at one side of the coin. And use that to fuel resentment. That's a really lousy way to enjoy gaming dood.

People love Fall Out 3, people dislike Fall Out 3, and people don't care for Fall Out 3. Same as they always did, it's just more trendy to dislike the company right now.

I think a open minded person would understand that Fall Out 3 a very divisive game, that caters a niche audience. It has its problems, and has its appealing qualities.

There were definitely more Fallout 3 fans in most polls and posts back then, they were like Seizure's legion, great in number but inferior in equipment (mental faculty in this case), slowly but surely with every debate shistorm (which there were many) ending with some Bethtard kid raging and leaving the group. FNV became known as the better game. It was basically meme warfare, Fallout 3 fans couldn't even breathe without earning one of these:

Before the release of Fallout 4 there was still a good percentage of Fallout 3 fans, at least 50%, though they were mostly kids.

With the release of Fallout 4, when people first saw Piper's deformed face stretching and skewing and even more so after they got a hold of the shitty lifeless game with all RPG elements stripped, loads of them turned on Bethesda.

As of Fallout 76, I'd say that the vast majority of the Fallout fanbase considers NV the better game.

TL;DR:

Fallout 3 used to be considered the better game among the casual fans but F:NV won the great Fallout popamole Meme wars.

@RSM-HQ: Idk what you are getting on about

I didn't say there was no one before Fallout 76 who liked NV more than 3 or that Fallout 3 doesn't get any love these days but it certainly feels less prominent

@mj0807: You are beaning all over the place and recommend you be more consistent in future for discussion. You ask questions, make assumptions, make bold generalisation statements. Then reply with answers as "no I didn't" despite being quoted. . .

How about you find me a video praising Fallout 3 within the last 4 years.

I did.

Even 5 years ago people prefer fallout 3 over NV

Gave links showing a divide.

If you are a Fall Out 3 fan, cool! Good for you. Hate to tell you're not alone, and plenty people have preferred New Vegas for many years. It has been sourced.

Do you also go by @henrythefifth any chance? You seem to write very similar as an older user.

@RSM-HQ: what Are enough going on about?

i never said everyone loved fallout 3 more nor do I have a problem with people liking new Vegas more. I also didn’t deny the video you link

no I don’t go by that username

@mj0807: That's all nice but because I was kind enough to answer all your stuff, how about we just get to the thick of it_

What do you think of the future for Bethesda- Do you think they can go nowhere else but up? or continue to go the Konami/ Activision route (serious question)

aww i miss the games discussion forum from back in the day. this thread brought back memories. we used to think it was dead back then, now look at it.

rsm - you and black knight need to try dipping your toe into system wars. the water isn't as bad as you might think. don't go down with the games discussion ship mate

Ah I tried a few years ago and didn't enjoy the vibes, bizarre terminology that just makes no sense. Majority act like a meme/ one note, I could have equal fun responding to junk mail. And considering a few of those common posters bleed over here, it stands out like a sore thumb. So I know nothing has really changed.

Not really my environment.

If Games Discussion dies out, I always have 4Gamer, GFAQ boards, and EZA for actual gaming conversations.

ツ

Because everyone loves to hate. It's contagious. Also, Bethesda's games are getting more shallow and bland with each entry though still for the most part quite enjoyable. The Fallout 76 fiasco gave most people a reason to pick on every flaw Bethesda has as a developer.

That said, they have made some of my favorite games in the past. There's something special about losing yourself in their worlds. For that alone I am always eager to play their next RPG.

I understand why many people prefer New Vegas to 3. Obsidian's writing is on another level. However, Fallout 3 has a superior atmosphere and world so it's my favorite.

While agree with your statement to an extent; simply cannot follow current Bethesda Studio blindly as they treat the customer-base like hot garbage.

No more Todd speeches for how great the game is in a slideshow presentation. It needs to be shown, and in detail.

For me heavily think it depends how solid the setting and soundtrack will be, to have any interest. Going out at night in the big open, looking up at gorgeous stars, while a game plays tracks such as Auriel's Ascension are ingrained into my soul

However/ Sadly with Bethesda Studio recent mistakes I have no reason to assume 'on a whim' they can capture that experience anymore in the next game(s) with that same energy. Skyrim is nine years old, and really they haven't done anything better since_

Bethesda need to win back player trust. And most sensible way to achieve that is have event demos of a return to form RPG, a game fans actually want would be nice.

This basically sums up the appeal that Bethesda games have to me. They may be buggy messes, built on an obsolete engine and feature poor combat mechanics but few games have made me feel the same way.

I can't blame you for being distrustful of Bethesda. I'm not sure they can turn things around myself. I found both Skyrim and Fallout 4 to be inferior to their predecessors in many ways. I hope Starfield, being a brand new IP, will allow them to return to form and create a more fresh experience this time around.

I expect them to have a major reveal at this year's E3 but I doubt we'll see anything as large as a playable demo. Their reputation has been stained in the past year or so but still their next RPG will probably do amazingly well commercially despite the ongoing hate, unless it's poorly reviewed. Which is highly unlikely considering that Fallout 4, their weakest RPG, received great enough reviews.

yeah all that cow, sheep, lemming stuff is utter cringe but look past the handful of fanboys and there are some decent posters. it's still dead, but relatively speaking, to gd, ot etc, it's busy. it needs more quality posters like you guys

I agree, my favorite Bethesda Studio experience is The Shivering Isles DLC for Oblivion. Even without mods that's an enjoyable experience. Takes everything Oblivion already has but actually gives a fun world and creative creatures without the monotony. Morrowind is a close second but honestly hate the dice system for combat, I wouldn't revisit the game without the amazing Overhaul mod.

Think Skyrim gave an interesting map to discover and a new twist on the template with dragons and shouts. However also went too far off the rails, making builds and actual RPG mechanics overall a novelty/ non-existent. It can barely be called an RPG honestly. It's an open world action game.

unless it's poorly reviewed. Which is highly unlikely considering that Fallout 4, their weakest RPG, received great enough reviews

I honestly liked Fall Out 4 more than FO3 and New Vegas. Sure the RPG part is horrid but the actual gun play is far more enticing and that alone got me playing it for over ten hours to beat the main questline. Also it was nice that the environment had variety, which I honestly felt the other Fall Out games lacked. Making custom guns was very enjoyable. But glad I stopped when I did.

still their next RPG will probably do amazingly well commercially despite the ongoing hate

Based on Fall Out 76 I don't know about that. The game drastically under performed. And while both me and yourself know it's a 'spin-off'. The customer high in large don't, and if you are sold a rotten apple you are less likely to go back at that same store to restock on apples are you?

Big companies have fallen from grace before and are now lost to time. And honestly think that could happen with Bethesda if they don't get their act together.

To at least a sensible degree_

I don't have unrealistic expectations to a return to form- like a smooth, bugles, excellent combat/ and level design. However I at least expect them to go back and re-evaluate what made them a name to begin with, and make something to that standard.

-

@Macutchi said: but look past the handful of fanboys and there are some decent posters. it's still dead, but relatively speaking, to gd, ot etc, it's busy. it needs more quality posters like you guys

I don't come to communities because they're extremely proactive or 'dead' anyhow. Much like above it's just good to have an occasional chat/ discussion that shares this amazing hobby.

At a glance can say I cannot make that plunge to System-Wars. Know a few here such as yourself dart about the other GameSpot Forums including SW, yet the key characters that hover over those pages would cause me anxiety haha.

We've had some annoying and horribly inconsistent characters here, but they usually don't stay long luckily.

@RSM-HQ:I don’t really know the future of Bethesda and I prefer not to speculate because I don’t know what the future holds. However if they keep making more Fallout 76s then it’ll suck. I guess you can say they’ve hit rock bottom but tbh you never really know rock bottom until you’ve recover. After the Kojima shit I didn’t think Konami would get any lower but it did. I also thought GTAO and RDRO would be the lowest the studio goes and now Dan Houser is out the door. I’m still holding out for GTAVI and hoping Dan finished most of the story but that’s fizzled

@RSM-HQ: I agree, my favorite Bethesda Studio experience is The Shivering Isles DLC for Oblivion. Even without mods that's an enjoyable experience. Takes everything Oblivion already has but actually gives a fun world and creative creatures without the monotony. Morrowind is a close second but honestly hate the dice system for combat, I wouldn't revisit the game without the amazing Overhaul mod.

As a TES fan I regret to say I've never played Morrowind. It was out of my radar as a kid and by the time I realized what I had missed, it was so dated I just couldn't be arsed to try it out, not even with all the overhaul and retexture mods.

I honestly liked Fall Out 4 more than FO3 and New Vegas. Sure the RPG part is horrid but the actual gun play is far more enticing and that alone got me playing it for over ten hours to beat the main questline. Also it was nice that the environment had variety, which I honestly felt the other Fall Out games lacked. Making custom guns was very enjoyable. But glad I stopped when I did.

I agree. The gunplay was significantly improved, the weapon/armor customization was enjoyable and they at least made an effort with the environment (for some reason I missed the green tint of FO3 lol) and the faction quests. The building mode was also kinda cool though I never bothered with it outside of the basics.

All these however came at a cost of poor RPG mechanics and a general blandness. I suppose that's the story of their games. They listen to feedback and improve some aspects of the game but in the process totally bastardize others. Here's hoping they someday find the best formula.

If you ever find yourself in a The Elder Scrolls mood I highly recommend Morrowind with Overhaul, which got its latest update last year (5.0). It's really easy to add-on. It runs a check list of what you want improved, tweaked and changed (includes Oblivion combat option). And quickly installs those to the base-game.

The difference is Morrowind has two big graphical mods one is the Overhaul which keeps the style of the original game intact but updates it to more modern standards. Well. . it looks more in line with Oblivion at least but with a better artstyle.

The other is called Skywind, which puts everything into Skyrim, has the look and everything. Personally I'm not a fan of this one, everyone being huge muscle people shrugging movement, duel weilding, dead RPG mechanics just doesn't fit the theme of the game.

I agree. The gunplay was significantly improved, the weapon/armor customization was enjoyable and they at least made an effort with the environment (for some reason I missed the green tint of FO3 lol) and the faction quests. The building mode was also kinda cool though I never bothered with it outside of the basics.

I played Fall Out 3 a long time ago so might have just been very hard on the game. It was winning award after award and many calling Oblivion stupid by comparison. Went in and didn't get the fun, it was so blurry, brown, and with terrible shooting mechanics. I heavily enjoyed V.A.T.S ability to blow off limbs but after a few encounters that came across as transparent and extremely OP.

Cannot vouch for story because usually when a NPC chats about philosophy or a depressing life I tune out and see what my friends are talking about in a chatroom lol. I read novels and poetry often so most games comes across as bad writing/ hot air. So story is rarely my area of interest in a game. And no particular lines come to mind in any Bethesda RPG if I'm being fairly honest outside campy memes_

I got a multiplatform CastleVania collection so cannot complain. Sure I don't hold much interest in what they develop. However if they just slip out remasters of its amazing backlog I will eat them for dinner everyday.

And I prefer not to speculate because I don’t know what the future holds.

Won't force you, our previous debate was just getting a little spicy for my taste and sure you can agree sometimes a conversation has outlived its welcome. Speculation is always fun for me, but to each his or her own. And respect your choice to prefer being a spectator, over guesser.

I also thought GTAO and RDRO would be the lowest the studio goes and now Dan Houser is out the door.

Don't really follow Rock Star, I just respect them for a far. They don't really do what I want in games 95% of the time so not really my area of discussion. From what I do know however GTAV would not be within the top five best selling games of all time if not for its online mode(s). And seems to me like following the cash is just what the company is about in 2020.

@RSM-HQ: If you ever find yourself in a The Elder Scrolls mood I highly recommend Morrowind with Overhaul, which got its latest update last year (5.0). It's really easy to add-on. It runs a check list of what you want improved, tweaked and changed (includes Oblivion combat option). And quickly installs those to the base-game.

The difference is Morrowind has two big graphical mods one is the Overhaul which keeps the style of the original game intact but updates it to more modern standards. Well. . it looks more in line with Oblivion at least but with a better artstyle.

To be honest, I already own Morrowind so I may as well at least try it out sometime just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm not planning to invest in any new release until September anyway.

The other is called Skywind, which puts everything into Skyrim, has the look and everything. Personally I'm not a fan of this one, everyone being huge muscle people shrugging movement, duel weilding, dead RPG mechanics just doesn't fit the theme of the game.

Yeah I totally agree. I used to keep up with the development of Skywind as it's a pretty admirable undertaking by the modding team. Same with Skyblivion (recreating Oblivion in Skyrm's engine). I realized though that such a remake would inevitably alter the identity of the original so Iost interest eventually.

I played Fall Out 3 a long time ago so might have just been very hard on the game. It was winning award after award and many calling Oblivion stupid by comparison. Went in and didn't get the fun, it was so blurry, brown, and with terrible shooting mechanics. I heavily enjoyed V.A.T.S ability to blow off limbs but after a few encounters that came across as transparent and extremely OP.

Cannot vouch for story because usually when a NPC chats about philosophy or a depressing life I tune out and see what my friends are talking about in a chatroom lol. I read novels and poetry often so most games comes across as bad writing/ hot air. So story is rarely my area of interest in a game. And no particular lines come to mind in any Bethesda RPG if I'm being fairly honest outside campy memes_

In my eyes Fallout 3 was basically Oblivion in a post-apocalyptic environment with guns. The modern setting allowed Bethesda to break free from fantasy tropes and create a weird and quirky world. Fallout 3 featured some of their best and most memorable quests and locations to date. The Power of the Atom, The Replicated Man, Vault 108 (Gary!), Oasis, to name a few. The world of Fallout is basically dead so they did a lot of work on the environmental story-telling front.

Aside from some particularly thought out side quests though, the writing (as always) was pretty shallow and kinda... just there to bind the world together. An incentive to set out and explore the world, where tons of smart and crazy details are aplenty. They tried to invest more in characters, story and factions in Fallout 4 but the result was still mostly bland compared to New Vegas. Maybe they could do better if they hired more experienced writers like Chris Avellone, who worked on NV.

There is one thing that people do in general, sheep following, like a big heard.

"If Fallout 76 was bad; everything is bad" It's not only sheepish attitude, it is a very destructive, self-centered one too like a child spitting out their pacifier.

Joining bandwagons is very common on the internet. People would rather join a group than go against the grain and stand as a individual.

Cannot personally relate to that immature attitude, and much agree with you. I've found even here a few will also talk big about games they 'maybe' watched maybe five minutes of footage, or looked at a screenshot and have gaping inconsistencies with the games they're attempting to hold a conversation with.

However, that is the norm online so may as well deal with it instead of holding a form of resentment. No ones perfect, just correct them and move on before they drop hatemail on your lap.

Fallout NV was interesting for its SouthWestern setting and I felt aspects of the gameplay were improved upon in comparison to Fallout 3, but the story felt very weak in comparison to Fallout 3.

I haven't really seen too much hate for Bethesda lately but I prefer Fallout NV to Fallout 3 and I played 3 before NV. Obsidian just totally outclasses Bethesda in the writing department and it really showed with those two games. I had the same issue with Fallout 4 and enjoyed NV more than that game as well.

I haven't heard or seen much of what you're talking about. Maybe it's because I don't play most of those games or read their reviews. I do play ESO and love the Elder Scrolls series. I do make posts about ESO and how the devs can't get the game working right and can't balance skills. I could compare them to the older titles again but there is little point at this point now.

I'd say of all the 'new' Fallout games, New Vegas is the best. I've played them all extensively, NV is the only one that feels like a Fallout game through and through.

It's trendy.

Honestly, It sounds like all you're saying is basically "Why do people think Fallout NV is better than 3, and to be quite honest, it really is, I think a lot of improvements were made over 3. Nuff said...

But to comment on why people think Bethesda "sucks" at making games, I believe it's just the gaming culture; they've recycled Skyrim so many times fully knowing that people are going to buy it for all the little tweaks they've added, without updates or focus on new games. With Fallout 76, for most, It's not appealing to them while there are so many bugs and misguided mechanics, and that more than likely garnered a large amount of distrust, and anger with their fans, seeing as they're so good at making single-player games, with little to no experience with online style RPG's.

Let's face it, Bethesda makes incredible games, all of them (with the exception of 1), and it's not a blanket hatred for their ability to make such games, (if you think it's so bad, found a studio and develop your own.) but their lack of response to player demands, that's the real tea. They've kinda become ignorant to the public while they work on Starfield and TESVI, and I can understand why. I don't think any company, other than EA maybe gets so much negative feedback because fans can't give them a chance to put all their ducks in a row.

They're just like any other studio making games for YOUR benefit, and YOUR enjoyment, yet they're consistently nagged, and battered, and scolded. They don't make bad games, that's just some salt being rubbed in the wounds of those impatient players because they can't hold on to their panties.

Give 'em a break.

"Incredible" may be a far stretch but they certainly deliver exactly what is expected Bethesda to release. An open world game with a lot of content. I prefer when RPG mechanics actually mattered but the games are enjoyable, for what they each offer to its sandbox lusting demographic.

if you think it's so bad, found a studio and develop your own

You realise this is the oldest excuse in the book to defend a declining developer. I don't need to make games to have an opinion of quality. Just the same as don't need to be a chef to know when an ordered meal is under-cooked/ burnt/ wrong order.

but their lack of response to player demands, that's the real tea. They've kinda become ignorant to the public while they work on Starfield and TESVI

I don't think that's the case, if you read some of my comments above it's clearly arrogance over ignorance. They're also firing talented staff that have worked at Bethesda for years simply because it goes against what they intend to gain from modern conventions.

Give 'em a break.

No. Bring the goods or go home is what I believe in within the world of gaming. Not every game is built for me; however customer-respect is essential.

Continue down the 76 line of insult and they can go out of business for all I care. ****'em

@mj0807: Hmm...I'm still playing Fallout New Vegas Ultimate Edition (haven't completed it yet for still playing & stuck on Dead Money DLC). It's the first game I've ever play by Bethesda. Plus, I'll get the chance to play Fallout 4 later. I only heard 95 percent positive things about Bethesda & 5 percent negativity is from Fallout 76 (an spin-off). The internet will complain about anything nowadays & it's pathetic.

I don't think this is a new trend. I've been panning Bethesda for 15+ years, and I definitelt haven't been alone.

When Oblivion came out, many Morrowind fans were disappointed with the dumbed-down gameplay and bad writing. When Fallout 3 came out, many Fallout fans hated the game for being a complete betrayal of the first two games. When Skyrim came out, it was mocked for being a broken mess. When Fallout 4 came out...I don't really remember much hubbub, because the game was dead boring.

I think those voices have always been there, they're just sometimes blotted out by the huge number of newbies who think "oh wow, I've never played an RPG before - Oblivion/Falloit/Skyrim is the best!".

Now that Bethesda has had a string of flops, that goodwill is mostly gone, and the other voices have become more visible.