Why all the Halo hatred?

    It seems fashionable nowadays to hate on the original Halo.  I've heard many people claiming it's really not a great shooter compared to many others out there.  This I just can't see.  I've been playing games since the Atari 2600, and have been a gamer of PC and console games since 1984....long before gaming became a mass industry, and have played all the classic FPS shooters along the way.  Halo, IMO, beats all of them.  I never fail to leave Halo impressed and satisfied and a bit in awe of the work and care that went into it.

So I want to know......why the hating?  None of the original's praise was undeserved.

Tell me, if you dislike CE, I'd like to know exactly why.  What about it was so bad as to warrant the hostility?  Is it because it helped MS get a foothold in the industry?  Has it received more attention than you believe it deserves?  What gameplay aspects bothered you? 

Oh yea, this is just about the original Halo. 

Help me to see your point of view.  I don't understand at all how anyone can consider Halo to be "average" in any way, shape, or form. 

You really liked Halo better than Half Life 2 and FEAR? o_0 Its a good game, got nothing against it but there are better FPS, and people like to hate on Halo because its popular but it is a good game.GodModeEnabled

While I thought HL2 was a great game, the firefights were boring and sterile feeling.  An awesome game, but I find Halo far more enjoyable and replayable.  FEAR I hated.  Boring boring boring levels.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]You really liked Halo better than Half Life 2 and FEAR? o_0 Its a good game, got nothing against it but there are better FPS, and people like to hate on Halo because its popular but it is a good game.Rekunta

While I thought HL2 was a great game, the firefights were boring and sterile feeling.  An awesome game, but I find Halo far more enjoyable and replayable.  FEAR I hated.  Boring boring boring levels.

Most of the hate comes from the fact that... 1. It's popular. More popular than games others feel are better. 2. There are many rabid fans of it, many of which are very outspoken and very obnoxious. 3. Most PC gamers seems to hate it because PC is primarily an FPS platform and people call it a mediocre one.

Basically it's that people like to hate on popular things to separate themselves from the pack, but in the case of Halo all they do is side themselves with another pack.

That's not to say some people just don't care for it. It's just that most people I see hate it for the "Wrong reasons." 

Some people really just don't like Halo. It's a matter of opinion. Personally I found Halo to be cliched beyond belief and a mediocre FPS in the right place at the right time, that's all.

But clearly if it sold like 8 million copies or something, there must be a lot of people who like it too. Think about that. 

[QUOTE="Rekunta"]

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]You really liked Halo better than Half Life 2 and FEAR? o_0 Its a good game, got nothing against it but there are better FPS, and people like to hate on Halo because its popular but it is a good game.GodModeEnabled

While I thought HL2 was a great game, the firefights were boring and sterile feeling.  An awesome game, but I find Halo far more enjoyable and replayable.  FEAR I hated.  Boring boring boring levels.

All great games, with the exception of Dissapoi.....errrr Doom3. ;)

The firefights in Halo, the weapons, the chaotic free for all battles that ensue just make Halo such an intense game to play.  It's just a rush to get into a good firefight in Halo, and while all the previous games you've mentioned have aspects that are enjoyable, for pure run and gun action I really feel that Halo:CE has yet to be beat.

Maybe I should have said that Halo has the best gunplay in an FPS.  It's like whenever I go and play any other similar game and then go back to CE, I wonder how I enjoyed what I was just playing beforehand.

Well, I'm heading to bed.  Thanks for the replies, I'll be back on later today to check up.

Basic laws of physics, every action has a equal and opposite reaction :-P

Seriously though, most flames come from fanboys, a small portion comes from seasoned FPS veterans who like to point out it brought nothign new to the table, yeah it was a good game but lets throw it on the pile with all the other 'good' FPS's..

Bottom line if you were a PC FPS veteran it was a bitter pill to swallow when the masses declared the average to good console FPS blast the best FPS in the world.

Ignorace is frustrating and you cant reason with it.... hence the zillion words writen in flame... no one is a winner...

 On that note I though it was a good game, Halo 2 better and I will be checkign out the PC port... You wont get better than good from me though :-)

It's hated because it's so popular.

Personally I love halo, my favorite fps from this century, but still, I have a feeling that it's too popular for it's own good. Bungie definitely deserves the fame though, the Marathon series is easily the most underrated fps series ever, bar none.

Basic laws of physics, every action has a equal and opposite reaction :-P

Seriously though, most flames come from fanboys, a small portion comes from seasoned FPS veterans who like to point out it brought nothign new to the table, yeah it was a good game but lets throw it on the pile with all the other 'good' FPS's..

Bottom line if you were a PC FPS veteran it was a bitter pill to swallow when the masses declared the average to good console FPS blast the best FPS in the world.

Ignorace is frustrating and you cant reason with it.... hence the zillion words writen in flame... no one is a winner...

On that note I though it was a good game, Halo 2 better and I will be checkign out the PC port... You wont get better than good from me though :-)

JackSherbak

I understand that reaction, I was sitting in the same boat, it's just that I actually gave in and bought a xbox. Like I said before, I really think it's one of the best fps's out there, and I've played most of them. Many games do one part of the game better than it (Half Life does the storytelling much better, even if the story itself isn't that good, FEAR has IMO superior foot based gameplay etc.) but halo really does everything at least very well and a few things amazingly well, like the vechicle based combat.

actually, most people hate the second halo, not the original-Masterchef-

Halo is an average shooter with a hell of a marketing campaing behind it, with that said, I want to add that I haven't played Halo on a console so maybe is there where the true potential of the game resides.

On the other side, what I really hate about the game is the "high" requirements compare to its console counterpart.

Later.

I play all the big PC & console fps's and Halo, particularly Halo 2, is probably my all time favorite.  

The online play of Halo 2 is easy to pick up and play, it's visceral, it's very well balanced and it's not dull for a second.  The only people who I hear complain about it are ones who racked up 1000 games or more and get bored.  Personally, it's my all time favorite online gaming experience.....it just does everything right as far as I am concerned.

 The single player versions of Halo 1 & 2 are overrated, but still some of the best single player FPS'ing of the last 10 years....easily.   

 Why do people hate Halo?   I got no idea, but there have been literally like 10 billion games of Halo 2 played online....so alot of people disagree.    

I'd like to hear reasons as to why those that really dislike Halo despise it so much.  Specifics!  Disliking it merely because it's so popular is absurd IMO.

Also, I don't play Halo or Halo 2 online because I suck at it, I'm purely looking at the single player criticism of CE.

As a gamer that has played a lot of PC FPS's, I can honestly say I thought Halo was a fun game, although not nearly the best of the genre like I hear many console-only gamers seem to believe. I bought an Xbox and Halo on day one, did'nt regret my purchase at all and thought it was a fine game and system. I just don't happen to think it stands out much if you throw it in the PC space. Where I believe the original Halo would've been lost forever and probably never saw a sequel.

As for the console space........ well Halo was revolutionary. It brought the PC shooter experience to the masses. The console gamer. They succeeded where no one else had.

I'd like to hear reasons as to why those that really dislike Halo despise it so much. Specifics! Disliking it merely because it's so popular is absurd IMO.

Also, I don't play Halo or Halo 2 online because I suck at it, I'm purely looking at the single player criticism of CE.

Rekunta

I don't know that I hate Halo, exactly, but I definitely have no use for it. Personally, I've never been a fan of multiplayer gaming, and that--so I'm told--is where the Halo series really shines. The single player game just never interested me all that much, to tell you the truth.

Also, as a former marine myself, it just really irks me that Master Chief is supposed to be this big, bad-ass marine and yet he's still a Master Chief, instead of a Master Guns. Get the rank structure right, Bungie, you d*** pogues. (Sorry, that's just my own personal rant).

Its all about balance. No matter what it is or how good it is there will be divided opinions about it.

The only reason I "hate" Halo is becuz I dont have an Xbox/Xbox 360 :P

 But I dont think that counts...

Ive only played the first Halo on PC but only for the first 5 min of the game so I cant really say anything bout the game. :(

IMO Halo has the best gunplay. YES, I have played Half-Life 1/2, FEAR, and many more on PC. Half-Life 1's gunplay was on par with Halo's but Half-Life 2's SUCKED! HL2 was focused on story and puzzles more and less with the shooting, I mean I got so bored with the game I quit playing it. 'Cept Ravenholm, that was tight (and CS: Source was okay). FEAR was horrible IMO. It did NOTHING for the genre, besides good A.I. Doom 3, multiplayer sucked, single player was okay, it was just too predictable. Cyberdemon was underwhelming. Halo is just a great rounded off game, it has the best action IMO, could use some puzzles though. Consoles really are on par with PC for FPS's. The main reason why they hate Halo is because, PC was the leader, the master of FPS, until Halo came. No longer was the PC the master, it was cut down by Halo.Dopemonk736

At the risk of inciting massive flames, I attribute Halo hatred to the three prime causes:

1. PC gaming snobs (think Half-Life loving Gabe Newell worshippers) who loathe the success of Halo and look upon it as some child's toy that is unworthy of the accolades andits place among sophisticated FPS.
2. Sony fanatics who despise Halo because its a threat to the Sony universe.
3. The hardcore Nintendo faithful who thumb their noses down upon Halo because Halo gamers are in their collective opinion, a rabble of knuckle-dragging, casual gaming savages who are destroying the creativity and integrity of the gaming industry.

 

This thread has taken on the form of every other Halo debate, it has descended into pure childish nonsense.

I'm sorry MarcusAntonius but your contribution to this thread is just childish and should really be in console wars, you have not given any valid reason why some may love and some hate, you have just spat your dummy out and insulted people who may not enjoy the game as much as you!

Dopemonk, you are the reason many seasoned FPS's player bang there head against the wall when trying to justify why they do not think Halo is "all that" You have compared it to a number of blue chip FPS titles that have come out since Halo!

Just for the record I do consider myself a FPS veteran, the single player story/action driven FPS is my favourite Genre and has been since 95ish, it is not in my interest to get locked in the childish reasons why some love and some hate, if it's a good game it's a good game, if it's a great game it's a great game.

Imo Halo was a good game but I take nothing from a person who thinks it was great, everyone is entitled to their opinions after all, personally I think Doom 3 was a piece of intellectual genius poorly misunderstood by the 70% of the forum trolling zombies, however that is just my opinion and I already know the ramifications of making this opinion public : )

I had an Xbox, I played Halo, I thought it was OK, but I had a long list of games to measure it against, to name a few:

Doom 1 & 2

RTCW

Quake 1, 2 & 3

Goldeneye

Turok 1&2

Unreal

Unreal Tournament

No one lives forever

MOH:aa

Soldier of Fortune

System Shock 2

Alien Vs Predator 1 & 2

Half Life

Rainbow 6

Swat 2

Duke Nukem 3D

Hexen 1 & 2

Battle Feild 1942

Star Trek Eliet Force 1 & 2 + Expantions

Return to castle wolfenstien

Enemy Teritory

Day of Defeat

Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast

Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

Serious Sam

Serious Sam: Second Encounter

Vietcong

Hidden and Dangerous 1 & 2

Rainbow 6

Ghost Recon

Unreal 2

Soldier of Fortune 2

Iron Storm

NOLF 2

Blue Shift

Enclave

Operation Flashpoint

Theif 1 & 2

Opposing Force

Command and Conquor Renegade

Battlefeild 2

Red Faction 1 & 2

Postal 1 & 2

Tribes 1 & 2

Clive Barkers Undying

Q3: Team Arena

Daikitana

Dues Ex

Team Fortress Classic

Kingpin Life of Crime

Sin

Sorry Dopemonk, the fact you use FEAR, HL2 and Doom3 as a measure against HALO means you are not really educated enough to have an opinion on this subject.

So then the question, why does everyone hate Halo.... Answer they don't! they hate all the uneducated noobs who were given a decent FPS on their console so decided to pollute the internet with there completely uneducated, uninformed opinion.

For the record I thought Halo was a good game, I thought Halo 2 was a good game, I am looking forward to picking up the PC version next week... Like I say I love FPS's and Halo is FPS, I love FPS's I hate people who try to argue a point with absolutely no knowledge of what they are talking about.

But yes Dopemonk, Console is starting to close in on PC FPS wise, but just as you think PC may be falling by the wayside something new and kick ass pops up! STALKER anyone?....

IMO all the Halo hatred is simply because the game was nothing special.The Single-player was solid,the multiplayer too.I play Halo 2 from time eo time but it´s nothing special at all.I think there are many games (like TimeSplitters) who had been MUCH more motivating.And more entertaining.

All the fuss about Half-Life 2 is a riddle for me,too.I played it for 5h and still had the feeling absolutely nothing happend.I was just bored.

I can´t shake the feeling both HALOs and Half-Life 2 was only hyped that much because there was no other good FPS they could hype back then.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]You really liked Halo better than Half Life 2 and FEAR? o_0 Its a good game, got nothing against it but there are better FPS, and people like to hate on Halo because its popular but it is a good game.Rekunta

While I thought HL2 was a great game, the firefights were boring and sterile feeling.  An awesome game, but I find Halo far more enjoyable and replayable.  FEAR I hated.  Boring boring boring levels.

I'll agree with you on HL2. I just couldn't believe how simplistic the fighting was, compared to Halo and FEAR. Still, in terms of atmosphere and pure immersion this is still unsurpassed. FEAR, on the other hand, featured some amazing fights, easily outdid Halo in terms of pacing, but felt too constrained. I agree that Halo was unfairly hated upon by the PC crowd. On the other hand, it certainly isn't the second coming of the FPS genre,as many ppl made it out to be.

It wasnt hated by the PC crowd, it just was not belived to be the best FPS ever..

What happend was a good FPS hit the console market, this ended up with hundreds of thousand kids telling a small group of people that a certain game was the best ever in the genre when it was there first real experience in this genre, at the time most of the Halo fanyboys could count the number of FPS's they had played on one hand. It ended up a very frustrating childish and pointless argument.

It is not Halo hatred it is contempt for a immuture portion of gamers, it is console wars, the whole Halo love/hate deal is just a by product of puberty and teenage angst!

It wasnt hated by the PC crowd, it just was not belived to be the best FPS ever..JackSherbak

I have to agree here because I believe this is a very common misconception. PC gamers don't really hate Halo, I think they were just annoyed by this constant pushing of Halo to be the "greatest FPS ever" by people who have little to no experience in the genre. Halo's level of mindless hype and annoying fans is unparalleled and simply turns a lot of people off. There are quite a few franchises that are actually more popular/successful than Halo, but their fans aren't nearly as adamant to push their favorite game as the second coming. Let's not forget that Half-Life is still the best-selling FPS series ever.

My personal view on Halo: Combat Evolved - extremely repetetive/dull level design, crappy vehicle controls, uninspired/boring combat. I finish virtually every game I play, but I quit Halo during the mind-numbingly boring Library level.

I enjoyed the hell out of Halo 2, though. It improved everything I had issues with in the original (level design, controls, diversity), and I appreciated the story being told from The Covenant's point of view. The Arbiter was a great character who complimented Master Chief surprisingly well.

What most people hate isn't Halo the actual game, what most people hate are many of the rabid Halo fanatics who are among the most obnoxious out of any tied to any game and who take the hype to extreme levels while acting like any criticism against it is some sort of blasphemy against some holy dogma.

Especially when they make claims like "Halo is the greatest FPS ever" or "Halo is the greatest game ever" or "Halo was the first to have _______", while attacking people who believe otherwise, especially in forums, going as far as making personal attacks or following users into unrelated topics to continue the argument.

Fact of the matter is, Halo, while a good game, was still just a straightfoward shooter....you simply went around and shot things. It didn't elevate the genre by going beyond being just a shooter the way other games in the genre like System Shock 2, Deus Ex, and Thief did.

In addition, even when talking about straightforward FPS gameplay....games like Half Life, CS, and Unreal Tournament were a MUCH bigger leap in improving the genre during their time, then Halo was when it released in late 2001......I'm not saying those games are necessarily better then Halo, but fact is those games were a bigger leap for the genre in relation to what was already out at the time, then Halo was when it released in 2001.

Many of the elements like rechargeble shields, on the fly grenade throwing, vehicles, etc. that man fans of Halo claim Halo introduced were really found in underappreciated games before it like Tribes, Tribes 2, and even Giants which brought all those elements into one game before Halo.

The story in Halo that its fans claim is so "great" is usually attributed if you count the books as well, not the actual story within the games themselves.

Then you have Halo fanatics who make ridiculous claims like any Halo criticism is done by PC "snobs" who are "jealous" (which is funny cause Halo is on PC) or other console platform users who are "jealous" or by who "haven't played it" (seriously, who hasn't played Halo by now?) ....in fact, there is a post right above that in this very thread that is a perfect example of this.....except there are major flaws in those claims.
1) If PC Gamers don't think its the greatest cause they are "jealous" cause its a console game then how come PC gamers love other games that started out on console and later came to PC like GTA3 or Riddick?
2) If PC Gamers are "jealous" cause its a successful FPS on console, then how come they didn't give games like Goldeneye or Perfect Dark which were just as acclaimed and popular the same kind of "jealous" treatment?
3) If other console users like Sony and Nintendo fans hate it cause its not on their platform....then how come there isnt hate for other exclusive series that are just as successful and popular like Final Fantasy or Zelda?

Fact is, though they were good games, both Halo games had major flaws that Halo fanatics pretend don't exist in their claims that its the best ever....and they'll attack anyone who simply points this out. The first game had pretty repetitive level design, and the second game's single player was considered by many, including Gamespot, to be a disappointment. (hell, Gamespot even nominated it for that dubious award in 2004).

Truth is the hatred isn't for the game, its for the Halo fanatics who hype this series up into the stratosphere and continously claim its the "best ever" or "beats them all" (hell, the topic author of this thread actually said this in his original post)....when the fact is there were FPS games just as good as Halo that don't get nearly as much appreciation, and did a lot more to elevate to the First Person Action genre beyond just being about shooting then Halo did.

[QUOTE="JackSherbak"]It wasnt hated by the PC crowd, it just was not belived to be the best FPS ever..UpInFlames

I have to agree here because I believe this is a very common misconception. PC gamers don't really hate Halo, I think they were just annoyed by this constant pushing of Halo to be the "greatest FPS ever" by people who have little to no experience in the genre. Halo's level of mindless hype and annoying fans is unparalleled and simply turns a lot of people off. There are quite a few franchises that are actually more popular/successful than Halo, but their fans aren't nearly as adamant to push their favorite game as the second coming. Let's not forget that Half-Life is still the best-selling FPS series ever.

My personal view on Halo: Combat Evolved - extremely repetetive/dull level design, crappy vehicle controls, uninspired/boring combat. I finish virtually every game I play, but I quit Halo during the mind-numbingly boring Library level.

I enjoyed the hell out of Halo 2, though. It improved everything I had issues with in the original (level design, controls, diversity), and I appreciated the story being told from The Covenant's point of view. The Arbiter was a great character who complimented Master Chief surprisingly well.

I 1000% agree (no not a typo). I've been playing FPSes on the PC since Wolfenstein and Doom, and for a bunch of people to get introduced to the Xbox generation with this "Revolutionary" FPS is just bogus.

And your highlighted views on the two games literally mimic my exact feelings. Couldn't have said it better. 

I'm sorry MarcusAntonius but your contribution to this thread is just childish and should really be in console wars, you have not given any valid reason why some may love and some hate, you have just spat your dummy out and insulted people who may not enjoy the game as much as you!

Sorry Dopemonk, the fact you use FEAR, HL2 and Doom3 as a measure against HALO means you are not really educated enough to have an opinion on this subject.

So then the question, why does everyone hate Halo.... Answer they don't! they hate all the uneducated noobs who were given a decent FPS on their console so decided to pollute the internet with there completely uneducated, uninformed opinion.

JackSherbak

I so enjoy being called childish by someone who uses terms like "noob."

See, my post above is more witty, cheeky, and humorous in taking a more lighthearted stab at the traditional pretentious nonsense that seems to infect so many Halo bashers. What you did here was shove your personal opinion down someone's throat while at the same time calling others "uneducated" and "not really educated enough to have an opinion on this subject."

Try not passing your opinion off as fact, OK?

I have to agree here because I believe this is a very common misconception. PC gamers don't really hate Halo, I think they were just annoyed by this constant pushing of Halo to be the "greatest FPS ever" by people who have little to no experience in the genre. Halo's level of mindless hype and annoying fans is unparalleled and simply turns a lot of people off. There are quite a few franchises that are actually more popular/successful than Halo, but their fans aren't nearly as adamant to push their favorite game as the second coming. Let's not forget that Half-Life is still the best-selling FPS series ever.

UpInFlames

Fully agreed 100%.

At the risk of inciting massive flames, I attribute Halo hatred to the three prime causes:

1. PC gaming snobs (think Half-Life loving Gabe Newell worshippers) who loathe the success of Halo and look upon it as some child's toy that is unworthy of the accolades andits place among sophisticated FPS.
2. Sony fanatics who despise Halo because its a threat to the Sony universe.
3. The hardcore Nintendo faithful who thumb their noses down upon Halo because Halo gamers are in their collective opinion, a rabble of knuckle-dragging, casual gaming savages who are destroying the creativity and integrity of the gaming industry.
   

MarcusAntonius

1. The how come they didn't "loath" games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, which were just as successful and popular (Goldenen sold over 8 million copies) and recieved just as many accolades as Halo....not only that, but both those games stayed exclusive to console and never came to PC.

2. Halo is a threat to the Sony universe?......GTA3 on PS2 was the highest selling game of 2001 and Holiday when it released around the same time as Halo, GTA:SA on PS2 was the highest selling game of the 2004 and of holiday 2004 when it released around the same time as Halo 2. Grand Turismo 3 recieved just as many accolades and was more successful then Halo. Final Fantasy X also recieved just as many accolades and sold about as much as Halo, so did Kingdom Hearts. See, Xbox users like to think Halo is this major threat to the Sony Universe, when the fact is if there is any "threat" to the Sony Universe, its from Sony themselves.

3. If thats the case, Then how come those "Nintendo faithful" didn't say the same things about the GTA series on PS2?

I have to agree here because I believe this is a very common misconception. PC gamers don't really hate Halo, I think they were just annoyed by this constant pushing of Halo to be the "greatest FPS ever" by people who have little to no experience in the genre. Halo's level of mindless hype and annoying fans is unparalleled and simply turns a lot of people off. There are quite a few franchises that are actually more popular/successful than Halo, but their fans aren't nearly as adamant to push their favorite game as the second coming. Let's not forget that Half-Life is still the best-selling FPS series ever.

My personal view on Halo: Combat Evolved - extremely repetetive/dull level design, crappy vehicle controls, uninspired/boring combat. I finish virtually every game I play, but I quit Halo during the mind-numbingly boring Library level.

I enjoyed the hell out of Halo 2, though. It improved everything I had issues with in the original (level design, controls, diversity), and I appreciated the story being told from The Covenant's point of view. The Arbiter was a great character who complimented Master Chief surprisingly well.UpInFlames

I don't believe its a misconception at all. Just because someone has played Wolfenstein 3D or the original Doom somehow qualifies them as a self-appointed authority on the FPS genre as if its on par with a master's degree or something. At least that's what I get from them, having already read over the thread of such a person in this very thread.

As far as the comparisons in campaign modes, I'd have to take Combat Evolved or Halo 2. I just don't think the few fun levels with the Arbiter made up for the mediocre level design that comprised the majority of the game. Don't even get me started on Master Chief's levels, that stuff would put a meth freak to sleep. That's not to say that Halo 2 is a bad game, I just think any advancements in gameplay were handcuffed by some poorly conceived levels. I'm wondering if perhaps Bungie became slaves to the plot or something?

I agree with your take on The Library, it was a drag and we certainly could have done without Neo Library in Halo 2.

[QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

I have to agree here because I believe this is a very common misconception. PC gamers don't really hate Halo, I think they were just annoyed by this constant pushing of Halo to be the "greatest FPS ever" by people who have little to no experience in the genre. Halo's level of mindless hype and annoying fans is unparalleled and simply turns a lot of people off. There are quite a few franchises that are actually more popular/successful than Halo, but their fans aren't nearly as adamant to push their favorite game as the second coming. Let's not forget that Half-Life is still the best-selling FPS series ever.

Robnyc22

Fully agreed 100%. 

At the risk of inciting massive flames, I attribute Halo hatred to the three prime causes:

1. PC gaming snobs (think Half-Life loving Gabe Newell worshippers) who loathe the success of Halo and look upon it as some child's toy that is unworthy of the accolades andits place among sophisticated FPS.
2. Sony fanatics who despise Halo because its a threat to the Sony universe.
3. The hardcore Nintendo faithful who thumb their noses down upon Halo because Halo gamers are in their collective opinion, a rabble of knuckle-dragging, casual gaming savages who are destroying the creativity and integrity of the gaming industry.
   

MarcusAntonius

1. The how come they didn't "loath" games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, which were just as successful and recieved just as many accolades as Halo....not only that, but both those games stayed exclusive to console and never came to PC.

2. Halo is a threat to the Sony universe?......GTA3 on PS2 was the highest selling game of 2001 and Holiday when it released around the same time as Halo, GTA:SA on PS2 was the highest selling game of the 2004 and of holiday 2004 when it released around the same time as Halo 2. Grand Turismo 3 recieved just as many accolades and was more successful then Halo. Final Fantasy X also recieved just as many accolades and sold about as much as Halo, so did Kingdom Hearts. See, Xbox users like to think Halo is this major threat to the Sony Universe, when the fact is if there is any "threat" to the Sony Universe, its from Sony themselves.

3. If thats the case, Then how come those "Nintendo faithful" didn't say the same things about the GTA series on PS2?

1. Those games were successful, but they weren't nearly the colassal cash cows that Halo was. They very existence of Microsoft's entire console gaming division can thank Halo for putting the XBOX on the map.
2. Why bring up Gran Turismo or Final Fantasy? I'm not sure how that figures into the discussion at all. Those were franchises that had been established long before Halo. Why is there so much Halo hate as of late? Simple. Once Halo 3 comes out, The PS3 has little shot of catching up to the X360 marketshare, and there are going to be alot of angry Sony fans out there.
3. They did. It was done from the angle of the "real gamers vs. casual gamers" bit. I think this lasted for several months, perhaps an entire year. Thank God GGD is no longer plagued by those tiresome threads.

I think a big part of PC gamers problem with Halo (me included) is a resentment stremming from the fact that before Bungie was bought over by MS, it was a PC only game.

[QUOTE="Robnyc22"]
[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]
I attribute Halo hatred to the three prime causes:

1. PC gaming snobs (think Half-Life loving Gabe Newell worshippers) who loathe the success of Halo and look upon it as some child's toy that is unworthy of the accolades andits place among sophisticated FPS.
2. Sony fanatics who despise Halo because its a threat to the Sony universe.
3. The hardcore Nintendo faithful who thumb their noses down upon Halo because Halo gamers are in their collective opinion, a rabble of knuckle-dragging, casual gaming savages who are destroying the creativity and integrity of the gaming industry.
   

MarcusAntonius

Like I said in my previous post.

1. The how come they didn't "loath" games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, which were just as successful and recieved just as many accolades as Halo....not only that, but both those games stayed exclusive to console and never came to PC.

2. Halo is a threat to the Sony universe?......GTA3 on PS2 was the highest selling game of 2001 and Holiday when it released around the same time as Halo, GTA:SA on PS2 was the highest selling game of the 2004 and of holiday 2004 when it released around the same time as Halo 2. Grand Turismo 3 recieved just as many accolades and was more successful then Halo. Final Fantasy X also recieved just as many accolades and sold about as much as Halo, so did Kingdom Hearts. See, Xbox users like to think Halo is this major threat to the Sony Universe, when the fact is if there is any "threat" to the Sony Universe, its from Sony themselves.

3. If thats the case, Then how come those "Nintendo faithful" didn't say the same things about the GTA series on PS2?

1. Those games were successful, but they weren't nearly the colassal cash cows that Halo was. They very existence of Microsoft's entire console gaming division can thank Halo for putting the XBOX on the map.
2. Why bring up Gran Turismo or Final Fantasy? I'm not sure how that figures into the discussion at all. Those were franchises that had been established long before Halo. Why is there so much Halo hate as of late? Simple. Once Halo 3 comes out, The PS3 has little shot of catching up to the X360 marketshare, and there are going to be alot of angry Sony fans out there.
3. They did. It was done from the angle of the "real gamers vs. casual gamers" bit. I think this lasted for several months, perhaps an entire year. Thank God GGD is no longer plagued by those tiresome threads.

1. Goldeneye wasn't a colassal cash cow? .....Goldeneye sold over 8 million copies and was one of the most popular games on N64...probably the most popular, and a major reason many people bought an N64. In fact, Goldeneye sold more then Halo 1. Fact is no matter how you cut it, Goldeneye was a MAJOR success for a console FPS both in sales and accolades, and it was the first to do so, in addition to being ahead of many PC FPS games out in 1997 in terms of gameplay....yet PC gamers didn't "loath" it for the flawed reason you say they "loath" Halo....not to mention, like I said, BOTH Halo 1 & 2 ended up on PC so I don't know where this idea of jealously is coming from.....PC-only gamers never got Goldeneye or Perfect Dark on their platform. If anything the ports of Halo 1 & 2 solidified that Halo isn't this uber "best ever" game many Xbox users made it out to be when matched up with the rest of PC's FPS catalogue.

2. Why am I bringing them up?....cause you said Halo was some major "threat" to the "Sony Universe"....fact is the Sony Universe, and Nintendo Universe for that matter, consist of more then ONE game....which is why I think its ridiculous to think that one game alone can be a "threat" to them, especially when other games in the Sony catalogue proved to be more popular and successful then that one game you're claiming to be a threat. You don't know if PS3 has a possibility of catching up to 360, nor do you know what Nintendo has in store, or even if Halo 3 will live up to expections.
Xbox 360 users were predicting that once Gears of War came out it would "be the end of Nintendo", yet its funny how Wii is such a hit and actually outselling the competition over its timeframe since it was first introduced.....for all you know Sony or Nintendo could drop a major hit in the next 18 months that can match or even outdo Halo 3 in terms of success and popularity.

3.Even if that was true, then it was attributed to all action games of this type by what you claim is the Nintendo faithfull....not just Halo....so acting like Halo was singled out by the Nintendo faithful is simply a flawed claim.

Its also funny when you say its the "Nintendo faithful" brushing off Halo as a "casual" game experience that is reducing creativity in the industry.....when I actually see the exact opposite happening with Halo fanatics and 360 followers brushing off the Wii and its big success as only being for "casual gaming savages" and claiming that is is "destroying the creativity and integrity of the gaming industry" cause its not as powerful as the Xbox 360.

I think a big part of PC gamers problem with Halo (me included) is a resentment stremming from the fact that before Bungie was bought over by MS, it was a PC only game.

dannyodwyer

No no no no no...... Please dont tar PC gamers with that brush! :( The most childish incident in gaming history imo is the recent petition Sony gamers made to Capcom saying they would boycot their games if they made the follow up to Jade empire multiformat.

I can see absolutley no reason why anyone should wish to boycott a company for presenting their games to a wider audience, it is ammunition for the non gaming public to keep hold of the idea all gamers are children, who figh over gaming platforms in the same way they fight over football teams or who is the best super hero.

If it is a good game it is a good game, it came to PC so why any resentment? It would have been no better a game if it was PC only, in fact it would not have created the same waves, it would have been presented to the fussiest gamers on the planet who care very little for hype. When Halo arrived a million PC gamers saw it and said... Were's the beef?

Rainbow 6 Vegas debuted on 360 and came to PC, why no hatred? Gears of War on 360, amazing game, not on PC yet but we all have our fingers crossed it will come. Bioshock, one of teh most anticipated games of this year dual release PC 360. My point, yet again....... People hate Halo fans not Halo!

.  FEAR I hated.  Boring boring boring levels.

Rekunta

wow have you even played HALO at all?. Theres this one part where you have to go down a long hallway, then you go into another hallway, then you make it to the end of the hallway, then omg theres another hallway THEN IT REPEATS 9 MORE TIMES!!!!!!!!!!! It's like the developers just pressed Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V in the map editor. HALO suxkthanksbye.

Look. Whether Halo is or is not good is really just an opinion. Its just that many people on forums try to argue about every goddamn thing while trying to sound intellectual, deep, and snobbish. This in turn just starts silly wars of people complaining at how somebody's opinion is flawed.

Halo is simply a series that has made a big name for itself in the console world and not everybody likes that so they resort to stuff like "ugh. Why do people buy this crap when nobody looked at Okami?" or "Mario is more mature than Halo" or my favorite, sweet and simple "Halo is trash". It's like sport athletes. If you are a big shot you will have a crowd that despises you.

To me Halo has great enemy AI which keeps things fun but got frustrating with bad level design. Halo 2 had great AI again and wasn't as repetitive as the first but it too was the strongest at the earily stages. I'm looking forward to Halo 3 regardless of what the media does (knock it down or hype it).

[QUOTE="dannyodwyer"]

I think a big part of PC gamers problem with Halo (me included) is a resentment stremming from the fact that before Bungie was bought over by MS, it was a PC only game.

JackSherbak

No no no no no...... Please dont tar PC gamers with that brush! :( The most childish incident in gaming history imo is the recent petition Sony gamers made to Capcom saying they would boycot their games if they made the follow up to Jade empire multiformat.

Actually, it was Devil May Cry.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="Robnyc22"]
[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]
I attribute Halo hatred to the three prime causes:

1. PC gaming snobs (think Half-Life loving Gabe Newell worshippers) who loathe the success of Halo and look upon it as some child's toy that is unworthy of the accolades andits place among sophisticated FPS.
2. Sony fanatics who despise Halo because its a threat to the Sony universe.
3. The hardcore Nintendo faithful who thumb their noses down upon Halo because Halo gamers are in their collective opinion, a rabble of knuckle-dragging, casual gaming savages who are destroying the creativity and integrity of the gaming industry.
   

Robnyc22

Like I said in my previous post.

1. The how come they didn't "loath" games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, which were just as successful and recieved just as many accolades as Halo....not only that, but both those games stayed exclusive to console and never came to PC.

2. Halo is a threat to the Sony universe?......GTA3 on PS2 was the highest selling game of 2001 and Holiday when it released around the same time as Halo, GTA:SA on PS2 was the highest selling game of the 2004 and of holiday 2004 when it released around the same time as Halo 2. Grand Turismo 3 recieved just as many accolades and was more successful then Halo. Final Fantasy X also recieved just as many accolades and sold about as much as Halo, so did Kingdom Hearts. See, Xbox users like to think Halo is this major threat to the Sony Universe, when the fact is if there is any "threat" to the Sony Universe, its from Sony themselves.

3. If thats the case, Then how come those "Nintendo faithful" didn't say the same things about the GTA series on PS2?

1. Those games were successful, but they weren't nearly the colassal cash cows that Halo was. They very existence of Microsoft's entire console gaming division can thank Halo for putting the XBOX on the map.
2. Why bring up Gran Turismo or Final Fantasy? I'm not sure how that figures into the discussion at all. Those were franchises that had been established long before Halo. Why is there so much Halo hate as of late? Simple. Once Halo 3 comes out, The PS3 has little shot of catching up to the X360 marketshare, and there are going to be alot of angry Sony fans out there.
3. They did. It was done from the angle of the "real gamers vs. casual gamers" bit. I think this lasted for several months, perhaps an entire year. Thank God GGD is no longer plagued by those tiresome threads.

1. Goldeneye wasn't a colassal cash cow? .....Goldeneye sold over 8 million copies and was one of the most popular games on N64...probably the most popular, and a major reason many people bought an N64. In fact, Goldeneye sold more then Halo 1. Fact is no matter how you cut it, Goldeneye was a MAJOR success for a console FPS both in sales and accolades, and it was the first to do so, in addition to being ahead of many PC FPS games out in 1997 in terms of gameplay....yet PC gamers didn't "loath" it for the flawed reason you say they "loath" Halo....not to mention, like I said, BOTH Halo 1 & 2 ended up on PC so I don't know where this idea of jealously is coming from.....PC-only gamers never got Goldeneye or Perfect Dark on their platform. If anything the ports of Halo 1 & 2 solidified that Halo isn't this uber "best ever" game many Xbox users made it out to be when matched up with the rest of PC's FPS catalogue.

2. Why am I bringing them up?....cause you said Halo was some major "threat" to the "Sony Universe"....fact is the Sony Universe, and Nintendo Universe for that matter, consist of more then ONE game....which is why I think its ridiculous to think that one game alone can be a "threat" to them, especially when other games in the Sony catalogue proved to be more popular and successful then that one game you're claiming to be a threat. You don't know if PS3 has a possibility of catching up to 360, nor do you know what Nintendo has in store, or even if Halo 3 will live up to expections.
Xbox 360 users were predicting that once Gears of War came out it would "be the end of Nintendo", yet its funny how Wii is such a hit and actually outselling the competition over its timeframe since it was first introduced.....for all you know Sony or Nintendo could drop a major hit in the next 18 months that can match or even outdo Halo 3 in terms of success and popularity.

3.Even if that was true, then it was attributed to all action games of this type by what you claim is the Nintendo faithfull....not just Halo....so acting like Halo was singled out by the Nintendo faithful is simply a flawed claim.

Its also funny when you say its the "Nintendo faithful" brushing off Halo as a "casual" game experience that is reducing creativity in the industry.....when I actually see the exact opposite happening with Halo fanatics and 360 followers brushing off the Wii and its big success as only being for "casual gaming savages" and claiming that is is "destroying the creativity and integrity of the gaming industry" cause its not as powerful as the Xbox 360.

1. Which is more attirbuted to the falling price of the N64 and its software and not so much 8 million sold when the game was being sold for $60.00 three years after it came out. Conjecture? Sure, but a more likely scenario IMO. I don't recall Goldeneye being nearly the launch event that Halo 2 was, no offense here.
2. Why continue to bring up the PS2s glory days? I'm more focused on the resent, that's not to completely brush off your take on things. However, discussing present market conditions, I'd say its realisitc that the release of Halo well before the holiday rush is going to give Sony some problems. Sure they have good games coming out, but none of them are high profile system sellers like a Halo, and GTA is a simultaneous release. I never said the console race was a forgone conclusion, I gave a likely scenario.
3. Rob, I never said Nintendo gamers singled Halo out, read my original post again. I merely provided an example and one based on making it a point of humor. Must you take everything on a message board so seriously?

 

At the risk of inciting massive flames, I attribute Halo hatred to the three prime causes:

1. PC gaming snobs (think Half-Life loving Gabe Newell worshippers) who loathe the success of Halo and look upon it as some child's toy that is unworthy of the accolades andits place among sophisticated FPS.
2. Sony fanatics who despise Halo because its a threat to the Sony universe.
3. The hardcore Nintendo faithful who thumb their noses down upon Halo because Halo gamers are in their collective opinion, a rabble of knuckle-dragging, casual gaming savages who are destroying the creativity and integrity of the gaming industry.

 

MarcusAntonius

I think you've brought up some interesting points but perhaps overstated. In general I think there is this general feeling going around of mild resentment from some because of the feeling of undeserved success. For the first Halo when i first played it I couldn't see what the fuss was about, it was a good game but I still had vivid memories of Goldeneye and Perfect dark in my mind and Halo was unfinished as I said before. As the years went by I came to appreciate the Halo more because console wise at least most FPS are crap. And I don't play PCs so this is not a PC shooter fan saying so. Halo is just about the only decent console shooter I've played along with the N64 cla-ssics.

But again, it was unfinished and gained notoriety for being the one game worth owning on the Xbox for a very long time, it's anchor. Then Halo 2 came out and MS and Bungie cloaked it in this whole shroud of mystery and put on this colussul marketing campaign and the single player didn't live up to expectations and retrospectively, most agree that Halo 1 outdid it in that area. At the time remember only 10% of Xbox owners were online and able to participate in the excellent multiplayer so there were many gamers who considering the wait and the hype and the marketing, felt cheated to an extent or disappointed at least. With me I know that my hype for Halo 3 was essentially killed by the whole second coming aspect of Halo 2's marketing campaign and the eventual result. So while I look forward to the sequel I'm not expecting it to blow us all away.

Wow this thread has taken off.  I want to reply to the new posts, but am heading out for some pool action.   8)

Thanks for the replies, please keep checking back because I want to respond to the new posts but have no time now.

Later!

Here's something that I posted in another thread the other day:

I've beaten both games, and here's what I think of them:

Halo: The game has horrible level design where you visit the same room models over and over again. The music is decent, but it only plays 1/5th of the time, and even when it IS playing, it NEVER sets the mood--quite the opposite, in fact. Sometimes you'll just be running along a dark hallway and the Halo theme will just start playing out of nowhere and you'll literally be thinking "Wtf, where did that come from?" And when you run up to smack an enemy in the head, the aim-assist makes it so that MC stares at the ground once you get close to them.
Also, there is absolutely no variety in the gameplay whatsoever until the last level.

Halo 2: Much better level design, and every room is unique. The music is just as bad though, and there's still no variety in the gameplay. But at least the aim-assist was fixed.

EDIT: Also, the Energy Sword and Needler are the only cool weapons in the games, which is pretty depressing considering that both games are set in the future.

EDIT 2: And another thing about Halo 1: the cut-scenes initiate before the textures are done loading. It's hard to explain, but the point is, it looks pathetic.