Was Doom 64 better than Doom 2?

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uninspiredcup

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#1 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 36496 Posts

So, I've been playing through Doom 2 again recently, and i'm amazed at how bad some of the map design here is compared to (incredible) Ultimate Doom.

Thematically cohesive maps replaced by large, fragmented abstract ones with no rhyme of reason, progression without any visual signals to player. Some maps just, 2 minutes long with 3 rooms. A barrage of jumping the player with retracting walls over and over with enemy spammage.

Would is be fair to say Doom 64 is a better game than Doom 2?

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#2  Edited By RSM-HQ
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As someone who played all the D00M games one after the other (before 2016 reboot) I found D00M 64 to be my second favorite at the time. With the original D00M being my personal favorite even now. The level design in the original is amazing_

D00M II is bigger maps, a few new enemies, and tacked on a DB shotgun (that makes most guns irrelevant to use). Otherwise is just heavily reused assets, which is a little off-putting. And as mentioned level design has much to be desired.

D00M II heavily relies on the "bigger is better" route, and while still fun (because more classic D00M). Doesn't really try and be a competent sequel. Whether as D00M 64 tried something a little different and feels like a whole other game, while still being true to the series. D00M 64 is the real third main D00M entry, and now most will be able to play it legally without depending on a bad controller.

I don't dislike D00M II, it's just very slap and paste. And D00M 64 seems to do its own thing which I really liked.

D00M>D00M2016>D00M 64>>D00M II>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>D00M 3

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#3 uninspiredcup
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@RSM-HQ said:

As someone who played all the D00M games one after the other (before 2016 reboot) I found D00M 64 to be my second favorite at the time. With the original D00M being my personal favorite even now. The level design in the original is amazing_

D00M II is bigger maps, a few new enemies, and tacked on a DB shotgun (that makes most guns irrelevant to use). Otherwise is just heavily reused assets, which is a little off-putting. And as mentioned level design has much to be desired.

D00M II heavily relies on the "bigger is better" route, and while still fun (because more classic D00M). Doesn't really try and be a competent sequel. Whether as D00M 64 tried something a little different and feels like a whole other game, while still being true to the series. D00M 64 is the real third main D00M entry, and now most will be able to play it legally without depending on a bad controller.

I don't dislike D00M II, it's just very slap and paste. And D00M 64 seems to do its own thing which I really liked.

D00M>D00M2016>D00M 64>>D00M II>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>D00M 3

Mostly agree with this barring Doom2016, while Doom 2's map design is well... bad, Doom2016 is too simplistic.

One compliment will give to Doom 2 though, it's creative and nigh experimental. With Ultimate Doom you generally know between each level what you're getting, Doom 2 is like a roulette wheel.

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#4  Edited By Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 21633 Posts

The main problem with doom 64 was being relegated to a controller, and lacking reload animations on the shotguns like quake. Now both issues have been addressed with source ports, so it's a much better game than it used to. Better than doom 2 though? I'm not sure I would say that.

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#5 RSM-HQ
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@uninspiredcup said:

Mostly agree with this barring Doom2016, while Doom 2's map design is well... bad, Doom2016 is too simplistic.

D00M IV (2016) has its fair share of issues. Though I think the level design was good for what it was designed to do. Unlike the older D00Ms 2016 is designed for double jumps and ledge climbs. And honestly the platforming in older D00M games are shit to put it mildly.

Glory-kills became too much of a God of War mechanics and seeing loot drop everywhere didn't seem right.

The constant lock-downs is usually the main drawback I see, and rightfully so, they're extreme padding and far too frequent. Then again the actual areas lock-downs have really great level design for the most part and designed similar to a Quake battle arena.

More of a mix between the two franchises and as a fan of both found it very enjoyable. If just needlessly repetitive.

If puzzle level design is more you taste however Ion Fury and Dusk are good alternatives. Dusk in particular is probably my favorite SP shooter in recent memory.

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#6  Edited By Robbie23
Member since 2015 • 433 Posts

Yes out of all the old school Doom games Doom 64 had the best soundtrack with freaky ambient sounds similar to Silent Hill.

Doom 64 had amazing leavel design especially the lighting, towards the end the levels reminded me of something out of Hexen.

I did like Doom 2, but I thought the last half of the game got pretty annoying in terms of level design. The suburbs level is the worst map in any doom game in my opinion.

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#7 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 39449 Posts

Hate to be this guy but Doom 3 was the first Doom game I played when it came to Xbox and from their, I still go back playing Doom 3 from time to time. I did play Doom 2 when I purchase Doom BFG edition on PC years ago and Doom 2 was pretty good but outdated for me personally.

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#8  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 36496 Posts

Final Doom and The Master levels tend to get overlooked because they are effectively fan made, but definitely put The Master Levels above the base Doom 2 game.

Final Doom tends to mixed bag, tnt feels closer to Ultimate Doom though with cohesive levels, while Plutonia has it's fans for difficulty, but I think it goes overboard.

Master/TNT > Base Doom II imo

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#9 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 36496 Posts

@robbie23 said:

Yes out of all the old school Doom games Doom 64 had the best soundtrack with freaky ambient sounds similar to Silent Hill.

Doom 64 had amazing leavel design especially the lighting, towards the end the levels reminded me of something out of Hexen.

I did like Doom 2, but I thought the last half of the game got pretty annoying in terms of level design. The suburbs level is the worst map in any doom game in my opinion.

Yea, the horror atmosphere in Doom 64, the tighter levels with a focus on fewer enemies makes it feel closer to Quake.

Usually when I play Doom (via Doomday) typically use the PS1 soundtrack for Doom 1/2, which is amazing.

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#10 robert_sparkes
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I loved doom 2 such a great game can still play it today. I agree 64 had a better soundtrack.

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#11 Litchie
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Well, no. That would not be fair.

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#12  Edited By RSM-HQ
Member since 2009 • 8806 Posts

@Litchie said:

Well, no. That would not be fair.

"All's fair in love and war"

Sequels and spiritual successors are commonly compared to predecessors in all forms of media. Games are just more frequent because continuation is more common, as such the debate is more frequently brought up.

Even this year we have many; The Outer Worlds compared to Fall Out 3+, BloodStained to CastleVania/ MetroidVanias, and most else compared to Dark Souls for no reason. .

Could name a dozen or more games that are judged for being sequels, prequels, or spiritual successors to something. It's just how things are.

In my opinion D00M 64 vs. D00M II is fair comparison. Same IP, same genre, same target audience in all respects.

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#13 Macutchi
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@RSM-HQ said:
@uninspiredcup said:

Mostly agree with this barring Doom2016, while Doom 2's map design is well... bad, Doom2016 is too simplistic.

D00M IV (2016) has its fair share of issues. Though I think the level design was good for what it was designed to do. Unlike the older D00Ms 2016 is designed for double jumps and ledge climbs. And honestly the platforming in older D00M games are shit to put it mildly.

Glory-kills became too much of a God of War mechanics and seeing loot drop everywhere didn't seem right.

The constant lock-downs is usually the main drawback I see, and rightfully so, they're extreme padding and far too frequent. Then again the actual areas lock-downs have really great level design for the most part and designed similar to a Quake battle arena.

More of a mix between the two franchises and as a fan of both found it very enjoyable. If just needlessly repetitive.

If puzzle level design is more you taste however Ion Fury and Dusk are good alternatives. Dusk in particular is probably my favorite SP shooter in recent memory.

good summary, agree with all this