Ubisoft says ZombieU not profitable, no sequel.

  • 78 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Grammaton-Cleric
Grammaton-Cleric

7515

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts


Here's the full rundown at IGN.

Basically, Zombie U flopped on the Wii U and the abysmal sales were a mitigating factor in the decision to make Rayman a multiplatform title.

Ubisoft also hints at a broader downshifting of Wii U support if sales for their games continue to lag on the platform, which they hope enjoys a better consumer response this holiday season.

Avatar image for JML897
JML897

33134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 JML897
Member since 2004 • 33134 Posts
Sounds like they're making reasonable business decisions, can't hate on Ubi for that
Avatar image for Black_Knight_00
Black_Knight_00

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#3 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts
Incidentally, that can also be said about the Wii U itself
Avatar image for CarnageHeart
CarnageHeart

18316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

Given that Zombi U was the biggest of the 3rd party launch games and that it was even included in a Wii U bundle, if Zombi U has lost money then its certain no third party game has made money on the Wii U.

Avatar image for nameless12345
nameless12345

15125

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Given that Zombi U was the biggest of the 3rd party launch games and that it was even included in a Wii U bundle, if Zombi U has lost money then its certain no third party game has made money on the Wii U.

CarnageHeart

 

Sega were pleased with WiiU sales of Sega Racing... (it sold a few hundred thousand copies)

Avatar image for AzelKosMos
AzelKosMos

34194

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 89

User Lists: 0

#6 AzelKosMos
Member since 2005 • 34194 Posts

Standard Nintendo console, same old Ninty games and no third party support. So if you want Mario Kart 8 and little else it's the console for you.

Avatar image for CarnageHeart
CarnageHeart

18316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Given that Zombi U was the biggest of the 3rd party launch games and that it was even included in a Wii U bundle, if Zombi U has lost money then its certain no third party game has made money on the Wii U.

nameless12345

Sega were pleased with WiiU sales of Sega Racing... (it sold a few hundred thousand copies)

That makes sense. Nintendo fans have a soft spot for Sonic (and Shadow).

Avatar image for nyc05
nyc05

10190

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8 nyc05
Member since 2005 • 10190 Posts

I can't blame Ubi.  They've done all they can to help Wii U.  It's Nintendo's job to fix the problems.  Until and if they do, Ubi and other third parties shouldn't bother supporting it.

As for the game, I personally really liked it.  GamePad integration was fantastic - sonar, scanning, looting, inventory management, map, etc. - making sure your surroundings were safe to do so really added to the tension.

The gameplay itself certainly could use some improvement, particularly the melee combat, but there's a lot of great pieces in place for a great game.

I would love it if Ubi brought it over to PS3/4 and use Vita as the controller.  Of course, I only mention PS3/4 because Vita could act as the controller.  I wouldn't want to try and use my iPad with Smartglass as a controller for 360/One.

Of course they would have to drop the "U" from the title, though.:P

Avatar image for Metamania
Metamania

12035

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#9 Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12035 Posts

Not surprised to hear about this.

ZombiU, from what I've seen in the video gameplay footage on Gamespot and elsewhere, it didn't look like a good game to me at all.

Avatar image for Madmangamer364
Madmangamer364

3716

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 0

#10 Madmangamer364
Member since 2006 • 3716 Posts

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Given that Zombi U was the biggest of the 3rd party launch games and that it was even included in a Wii U bundle, if Zombi U has lost money then its certain no third party game has made money on the Wii U.

nameless12345

 

Sega were pleased with WiiU sales of Sega Racing... (it sold a few hundred thousand copies)

Yeah, I suspect that because All Stars Racing Transformed was a port, it was able to generate profit. However, that's still nothing to go by for third party publishers, as even most multiplats have suffered on the system. The biggest problem here is that not everyone has a Sonic-like character or property that can consistently work within Nintendo's ecosystem, so I don't think most publishers ever had a chance to gain something positive from supporting the Wii U. The fact that we now know the system's biggest and most notable third party release has also, in a sense, failed on the platform is a major telling point in just how dire the situation is with the Wii U's importance and relevance to third party publishers.

I just don't see a solution in sight, either. With no appeal to any kind of consumer, outside of the Nintendo fanatic, the Wii U doesn't have much room to grow.

Avatar image for DJ-Lafleur
DJ-Lafleur

35604

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

#11 DJ-Lafleur
Member since 2007 • 35604 Posts

Not entirely surprising, considering the Wii U's poor situation and the mixed reactions the game got.

Avatar image for Yama
Yama

34151

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12 Yama
Member since 2002 • 34151 Posts

I find it hard to believe a more polished sequel on multiple platforms wouldn't be profitable, though that's a lot of 'if's'.

Avatar image for Shame-usBlackley
Shame-usBlackley

18266

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#13 Shame-usBlackley
Member since 2002 • 18266 Posts

Incidentally, that can also be said about the Wii U itselfBlack_Knight_00

It's an unmitigated disaster. I was going to make a thread a few days ago about it, but I felt bad about writing it halfway through and shltcanned it. Still, the sentiment is valid -- I noticed when I went to Amazon's Wii U page that there is, like, nothing coming out for this thing. The software lineup looks like that of a system in its last few months of life, not the first few. 

Avatar image for Rattlesnake_8
Rattlesnake_8

18452

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 31

User Lists: 0

#14 Rattlesnake_8
Member since 2004 • 18452 Posts

Given that Zombi U was the biggest of the 3rd party launch games and that it was even included in a Wii U bundle, if Zombi U has lost money then its certain no third party game has made money on the Wii U.

CarnageHeart
This.. Nintendo needs to do something if they expect anyone to make games for their system.. price drop, new bundle with super mario and some announcements from third party studios might help.. but all they do is announce more mario themed games.
Avatar image for El_Zo1212o
El_Zo1212o

6057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts
I think PS4's got something up it's sleeve- since I won't buy one for at least 2 years(maybe 3) I'll be settling back and watching the news develop during that time from behind my Gamepad.
Avatar image for Randolph
Randolph

10542

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#16 Randolph
Member since 2002 • 10542 Posts
The Wii U seems to be stuck in a rut, and Iwata just awkwardly stands around repeating "please understand" and "we apologize". I just can't fathom a solution to their console problem, and even hardcore Nintendo fans were let down by their E3 Nintendo Direct. I mean, Mario 3D World looks like it will be a fun game, but just about everyone expected something more than what is, essentially, a $60 3DS port. We expected Mario Galaxy on steroids. We got a portable game in HD. Even Mario, their flagship character, just doesn't seem to take the Wii U seriously. It's like they've already resigned themselves to the fact the this system will not be a huge success, so they don't see the reason to go balls to the walls and make games like Galaxy when reasonably well made yet extremely lazy efforts like NSMB and 3D World will still turn a tidy profit regardless. They are penny pinching the Wii U into oblivion.
Avatar image for JonathanL
JonathanL

22123

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 45

User Lists: 0

#17 JonathanL
Member since 2002 • 22123 Posts
[QUOTE="Randolph"]The Wii U seems to be stuck in a rut, and Iwata just awkwardly stands around repeating "please understand" and "we apologize". I just can't fathom a solution to their console problem, and even hardcore Nintendo fans were let down by their E3 Nintendo Direct. I mean, Mario 3D World looks like it will be a fun game, but just about everyone expected something more than what is, essentially, a $60 3DS port. We expected Mario Galaxy on steroids. We got a portable game in HD. Even Mario, their flagship character, just doesn't seem to take the Wii U seriously. It's like they've already resigned themselves to the fact the this system will not be a huge success, so they don't see the reason to go balls to the walls and make games like Galaxy when reasonably well made yet extremely lazy efforts like NSMB and 3D World will still turn a tidy profit regardless. They are penny pinching the Wii U into oblivion.

I don't see a solution short of A) Buying Sega Sammy or B) Somehow doubling their development studios. They're still the best developer in the world for my money, but they're pretty much running it solo.
Avatar image for Oil_Rope_Bombs
Oil_Rope_Bombs

2667

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#19 Oil_Rope_Bombs
Member since 2010 • 2667 Posts
Can't blame Ubisoft for making the right decision. Oh well, sheep are still gonna love the some old rehashed IPs like Mario Party, so Nintendo isn't going down any time soon.
Avatar image for Black_Knight_00
Black_Knight_00

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#20 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Incidentally, that can also be said about the Wii U itselfShame-usBlackley

It's an unmitigated disaster. I was going to make a thread a few days ago about it, but I felt bad about writing it halfway through and shltcanned it. Still, the sentiment is valid -- I noticed when I went to Amazon's Wii U page that there is, like, nothing coming out for this thing. The software lineup looks like that of a system in its last few months of life, not the first few. 

Yup, worst Nintendo blunder since the Virtual Boy. To be fair they still have time to pick up the pace and sell a few million units to Nintendo fanboys and people who buy multiple consoles. Hell, they could even vaguely entice me to buy that mess if they showed a proper 3D Mario game and a new Zelda, but so far only 3DS ports and Gamecube remakes. It's like they are deliberately trying to suck.
Avatar image for Metamania
Metamania

12035

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#21 Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12035 Posts

I think PS4's got something up it's sleeve- since I won't buy one for at least 2 years(maybe 3) I'll be settling back and watching the news develop during that time from behind my Gamepad.El_Zo1212o

Really? I thought you would be getting a PS4 on launch, like how I was (and still am going to).

Avatar image for MirkoS77
MirkoS77

17532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#22 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17532 Posts

Given that Zombi U was the biggest of the 3rd party launch games and that it was even included in a Wii U bundle, if Zombi U has lost money then its certain no third party game has made money on the Wii U.

CarnageHeart

Didn't the Wii U sell relatively decent on release?
The Wii U seems to be stuck in a rut, and Iwata just awkwardly stands around repeating "please understand" and "we apologize".Randolph
He is not genuine in this as it keeps happening.  I've come to believe it's a calculated move to appease people by capitalizing on his charisma so Nintendo can get away with murder.  I can't even number the times I've seen people in threads on various sites saying how he apologized, how he's so humble, how he's aware of the situation, is working to fix it, and wants to explain why things are the way they are.  That he cares

And yet the same bullshit happens which can only mean three things: a) he doesn't care, b) he's incapable of rectifying what he's sorry for, or c) it's an intentional appeal to empathy to cover his and Nintendo's ass.  I used to believe b, but now tend towards c.  It's a brilliant strategy really, as people have been tolerating it for years now.  The reason he does this is ultimately to help save Nintendo money by shifting developmental resources instead of investing in more, which cause these droughts (notice the sudden influx of 3DS games and no Wii U ones?), then throws out apology after apology to placate.  Then people eat it up and come to his defense saying, "aw shucks, but he's such a nice guy!  He wants to make sure that all the games are finished.  I wish more CEOs were like him".  

Please.  Iwata has a lot of charisma and he knows it.  He "understands" how he's perceived by his fans and uses that as leverage to help excuse his incompetence.  How can you argue with a cute little man playing with bananas? Seriously though, how long will people continue to believe this dope?  He's been apologizing since what....the GCN?  Shit or get off the pot. That moron needs to be kicked to the curb ASAP, or back to what he's best at: software development.

Avatar image for Miroku32
Miroku32

8666

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 43

User Lists: 0

#23 Miroku32
Member since 2006 • 8666 Posts
Can't blame Ubisoft. In fact, I can't blame any third party, developing games for the Wii U is a waste of money and time right now.
Avatar image for CarnageHeart
CarnageHeart

18316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

Didn't the Wii U sell relatively decent on release?

MirkoS77

The Wii U put up decent numbers over the holiday (though it didn't sell out anywhere) but as Gamasutra explained, a lot of that was due to speculation. Thinking of what happened with the X360 and PS3 (where due to shortages one could make hundreds of even a thousand bucks on Ebay), speculators snapped up Wii Us early only to find there was little demand, so many wound up selling them for the same or less money than they paid for them.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/187605/A_theory_behind_Januarys_weak_Wii_U_sales.php

The figure reported by the NPD Group, the sources' story went on, included perhaps 100,000 units sold to consumers -- and 40,000 or more units returned to stores. The net, then, would yield the 57,000 units reported by the NPD Group.
And the explanation for those tens of thousands of returns? The collapse of the secondary market, those resellers who had purchased Wii U systems in November and December 2012 hoping that popularity and a shortage of systems would yield a tidy profit through Christmas and into the new year. However, profiteers advertising Wii U systems on sites like Amazon, eBay and Craigslist saw their margins disappear and then chose to return their systems to retailers while their original receipts still permitted them to.
So in the end, there probably still were a minimum of 57,000 units that ended up in consumers' homes in the U.S. this January. But it's nonetheless interesting to examine how these prospectors may affect the retail environment.
Is such a thing even possible? Could the speculative market really have returned a volume of hardware that was 40-50 percent of the actual new sales in January? A quick check of VideoGamePriceCharts (which aggregates data from various resellers) shows that Wii U prices for new systems have been below retail since December 2012. And as of today there are numerous brand new Wii U Deluxe systems selling on eBay for well below the $350 retail price.

Avatar image for El_Zo1212o
El_Zo1212o

6057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]I think PS4's got something up it's sleeve- since I won't buy one for at least 2 years(maybe 3) I'll be settling back and watching the news develop during that time from behind my Gamepad.Metamania

Really? I thought you would be getting a PS4 on launch, like how I was (and still am going to).

I was going to, but lately I've been getting suspicious. Better to just stick with a company that's stuck in the past when everyone thinks the future should belong solely to them.
Avatar image for Metamania
Metamania

12035

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#26 Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12035 Posts

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]I think PS4's got something up it's sleeve- since I won't buy one for at least 2 years(maybe 3) I'll be settling back and watching the news develop during that time from behind my Gamepad.El_Zo1212o

Really? I thought you would be getting a PS4 on launch, like how I was (and still am going to).

I was going to, but lately I've been getting suspicious. Better to just stick with a company that's stuck in the past when everyone thinks the future should belong solely to them.

That's how any company is going to think though...

Avatar image for El_Zo1212o
El_Zo1212o

6057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"][QUOTE="Metamania"]

Really? I thought you would be getting a PS4 on launch, like how I was (and still am going to).

Metamania

I was going to, but lately I've been getting suspicious. Better to just stick with a company that's stuck in the past when everyone thinks the future should belong solely to them.

That's how any company is going to think though...

Eventually, yeah. And when that happens, I'm going handheld only. Until that time, I'll be giving my money to the company that's currently trying to take the least from me.
Avatar image for Grammaton-Cleric
Grammaton-Cleric

7515

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] I was going to, but lately I've been getting suspicious. Better to just stick with a company that's stuck in the past when everyone thinks the future should belong solely to them.El_Zo1212o

That's how any company is going to think though...

Eventually, yeah. And when that happens, I'm going handheld only. Until that time, I'll be giving my money to the company that's currently trying to take the least from me.

If you paid full price for a Wii U then I'd argue Nintendo took more from you than Sony could ever hope to, given how redundant the Wii U hardware is and how lacking the library is.

The Wii U isn't even a next gen system, a painful reality that will come to bear as companies begin developing exclusively for the new consoles.

Obviously the choice is yours but I fail to grasp how Nintendo isn't one of the worst purveyors of screwing over the consumer with a system that currently costs only 100 dollars less than the PS4 despite having, maybe, 1/5 of the power.

Avatar image for Metamania
Metamania

12035

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#30 Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12035 Posts

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] Eventually, yeah. And when that happens, I'm going handheld only. Until that time, I'll be giving my money to the company that's currently trying to take the least from me.dvader654

If you paid full price for a Wii U then I'd argue Nintendo took more from you than Sony could ever hope to, given how redundant the Wii U hardware is and how lacking the library is.

The Wii U isn't even a next gen system, a painful reality that will come to bear as companies begin developing exclusively for the new consoles.

Obviously the choice is yours but I fail to grasp how Nintendo isn't one of the worst purveyors of screwing over the consumer with a system that currently costs only 100 dollars less than the PS4 despite having, maybe, 1/5 of the power.

I was hoping Nintendo would do a big price cut and give me free crap as an apology like they did with the 3DS. This is complete BS and I cant believe I got one at launch. What I really want is still 2 months away.

Then maybe you should sell your Wii U and everything for it with something else instead. Then again, I don't see that happening, because knowing how you work on the forums, you'll be like "OMG Zelda this and ZOMG Mario that!" :P

Avatar image for Metamania
Metamania

12035

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#31 Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12035 Posts

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] I was going to, but lately I've been getting suspicious. Better to just stick with a company that's stuck in the past when everyone thinks the future should belong solely to them.El_Zo1212o

That's how any company is going to think though...

Eventually, yeah. And when that happens, I'm going handheld only. Until that time, I'll be giving my money to the company that's currently trying to take the least from me.

What do you mean "eventually?" Dude, have you noticed this since the beginning of game creation? Every videogame console maker had that mentality going ever since they were BORN...where have you been living? Under a rock? :P

Avatar image for gbrading
gbrading

8085

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 35

User Lists: 0

#33 gbrading
Member since 2005 • 8085 Posts

Thus ends possibly the most interesting game on the Wii U, and thus the Wii U itself unless a bolt from the blue can revitalize it.

Avatar image for Jacanuk
Jacanuk

20281

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 42

User Lists: 0

#34 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts


Here's the full rundown at IGN.

Basically, Zombie U flopped on the Wii U and the abysmal sales were a mitigating factor in the decision to make Rayman a multiplatform title.

Ubisoft also hints at a broader downshifting of Wii U support if sales for their games continue to lag on the platform, which they hope enjoys a better consumer response this holiday season.

Grammaton-Cleric
Nintendo has basically put their hands in the pocket and counted on Mario to come to their rescue. But the WiiU is dead , games might come on WiiU but after this announcement i think it will be as a sidedish if it doesnt cost to much.
Avatar image for El_Zo1212o
El_Zo1212o

6057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"][QUOTE="Metamania"]

That's how any company is going to think though...

Metamania

Eventually, yeah. And when that happens, I'm going handheld only. Until that time, I'll be giving my money to the company that's currently trying to take the least from me.

What do you mean "eventually?" Dude, have you noticed this since the beginning of game creation? Every videogame console maker had that mentality going ever since they were BORN...where have you been living? Under a rock? :P

Here's the kicker- Xbox One came out and said basically 'we're doing away with discs.' The reason for doing that is to finally cement the claim that you don't purchase anything when you lay down sixty bucks at your local Gamestop(or wherever you buy your games). They got beat back, but all they really gave was their promise that they are no longer going to implement those policies. Now if their fine print contains a phrase like 'Microsoft reserves the right to alter their policies without notice,' then they could just wait for all the buyers to pick up their console(give it about two years or so) and implement that crap through a dashboard update. By then, people will be invested, and the alternative is to refuse to download the update and basically have their system bricked until they do update it. How many people disliked the NXE dashboard so much that they refused to download/install it? Very few if any. I believe that Playstation has some kind of similar plan that they don't intend to implement before launch, so I'm taking a wait and see approach. If Xbox One does implement such a scheme, then maybe PS4(and doubtless PS5) will follow suit. In this way, Nintendo's policy of trailing behind nearly guarantees that my last home console will be a Nintendo machine. @Gram: If Xbox One's original plan had taken root(or if it's brought back later), then Microsoft will have taken more from all of us than just money.
Avatar image for MirkoS77
MirkoS77

17532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#36 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17532 Posts

Here's the kicker- Xbox One came out and said basically 'we're doing away with discs.' The reason for doing that is to finally cement the claim that you don't purchase anything when you lay down sixty bucks at your local Gamestop(or wherever you buy your games). They got beat back, but all they really gave was their promise that they are no longer going to implement those policies. Now if their fine print contains a phrase like 'Microsoft reserves the right to alter their policies without notice,' then they could just wait for all the buyers to pick up their console(give it about two years or so) and implement that crap through a dashboard update. By then, people will be invested, and the alternative is to refuse to download the update and basically have their system bricked until they do update it. How many people disliked the NXE dashboard so much that they refused to download/install it? Very few if any.

I believe that Playstation has some kind of similar plan that they don't intend to implement before launch, so I'm taking a wait and see approach. If Xbox One does implement such a scheme, then maybe PS4(and doubtless PS5) will follow suit. In this way, Nintendo's policy of trailing behind nearly guarantees that my last home console will be a Nintendo machine. El_Zo1212o

Like it or not, I believe gaming will be going down the road that MS is trying to push it, it was just too much too soon utilizing the wrong approach.  Sony will eventually follow suit, if not keep pace.  I don't hold faith in either too much really.  DD and DRM has already proven to be a viable market model if executed correctly, as Steam has done (a service that was pretty much universally hated upon release but is now loved).  It's a matter of pros vs. cons, it really is as simple as that.

As much as Nintendo pisses me off of late, I very much agree with them on their philosophy that games should be viewed as toys, and if developers are concerned about the used game market to make better games.

Avatar image for c_rakestraw
c_rakestraw

14627

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 64

User Lists: 0

#37 c_rakestraw  Moderator
Member since 2007 • 14627 Posts

As much as Nintendo pisses me off of late, I very much agree with them on their philosophy that games should be viewed as toys, and if developers are concerned about the used game market to make better games.MirkoS77

They said that? Man, f*ck that, and f*ck Nintendo, too. Way to devalue how far games have come.

Avatar image for Grammaton-Cleric
Grammaton-Cleric

7515

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

@Gram: If Xbox One's original plan had taken root(or if it's brought back later), then Microsoft will have taken more from all of us than just money.

El_Zo1212o

True, but MS's plan was shit and it was rejected on a massive and unanimous scale.

Sony clearly had no aspirations to follow suit even before the public drubbing of MS occurred and I think placing them into the same space as MS is a mistake given how clear they've made it that the PS4 is, first and foremost, a traditional gaming machine.

Regardless, the Wii U is nothing more than a current gen system with almost no viable third party support tethered to a mostly useless controller. Even if I were going to entirely reject next gen gaming I wouldn't choose such a poor console as my refuge, especially with PC gaming a viable alternative.

My two cents anyway.

Avatar image for Grammaton-Cleric
Grammaton-Cleric

7515

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#39 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]As much as Nintendo pisses me off of late, I very much agree with them on their philosophy that games should be viewed as toys, and if developers are concerned about the used game market to make better games.c_rake

They said that? Man, f*ck that, and f*ck Nintendo, too. Way to devalue how far games have come.

I just completed The Last of Us and that game is about as far from being a toy as the film Taxi Driver.

Avatar image for MirkoS77
MirkoS77

17532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#40 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17532 Posts

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]As much as Nintendo pisses me off of late, I very much agree with them on their philosophy that games should be viewed as toys, and if developers are concerned about the used game market to make better games.c_rake

They said that? Man, f*ck that, and f*ck Nintendo, too. Way to devalue how far games have come.

I don't see that comment as to how games are designed, only marketed. Do you want to own or rent them?
Avatar image for CarnageHeart
CarnageHeart

18316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] Here's the kicker- Xbox One came out and said basically 'we're doing away with discs.' The reason for doing that is to finally cement the claim that you don't purchase anything when you lay down sixty bucks at your local Gamestop(or wherever you buy your games). They got beat back, but all they really gave was their promise that they are no longer going to implement those policies. Now if their fine print contains a phrase like 'Microsoft reserves the right to alter their policies without notice,' then they could just wait for all the buyers to pick up their console(give it about two years or so) and implement that crap through a dashboard update. By then, people will be invested, and the alternative is to refuse to download the update and basically have their system bricked until they do update it. How many people disliked the NXE dashboard so much that they refused to download/install it? Very few if any.

I believe that Playstation has some kind of similar plan that they don't intend to implement before launch, so I'm taking a wait and see approach. If Xbox One does implement such a scheme, then maybe PS4(and doubtless PS5) will follow suit. In this way, Nintendo's policy of trailing behind nearly guarantees that my last home console will be a Nintendo machine. MirkoS77

Like it or not, I believe gaming will be going down the road that MS is trying to push it, it was just too much too soon utilizing the wrong approach. Sony will eventually follow suit, if not keep pace. I don't hold faith in either too much really. DD and DRM has already proven to be a viable market model if executed correctly, as Steam has done (a service that was pretty much universally hated upon release but is now loved). It's a matter of pros vs. cons, it really is as simple as that.

As much as Nintendo pisses me off of late, I very much agree with them on their philosophy that games should be viewed as toys, and if developers are concerned about the used game market to make better games.

MS's move was insane because it tried to push gamers towards an inevitability through negative, coercive means. ITunes is now how most people buy their music, but Apple didn't touch CDs (of course, they lacked the power to do so). They didn't need to. They made DD cheaper and more convenient and CDs just kind of faded away. Same with Steam. Retailers were horrible about stocking PC games and Steam gave gamers a place to easily find PC games and often made them cheaper than retail.

Game designers are giving gamers positive reasons to go online. As a recent article I read (in Eurogamer or Gamasutra, I forget which) pointed out, developers are drawing inspiration from the likes of Journey and Demon's Souls, which didn't have this multiplayer mode which was a distinct thing from SP, but part of the whole experience (Tom Clancy's The Unit is a good example). Both Sony and MS are allowing people to share game footage with friends and both are shipping with big hard drives and have announced that all games will be for sale online at the same time they are on shelves (Sony has already done this with the Vita). Also, both Sony and MS are working on kid-friendly play-create-share games (Media Molecule's unnamed PS4 project and MS's Project Spark) which allow those with an internet connection to download player created games.

So neither Sony nor MS are going to retroactively strip away consumers' rights (that would be an insane move which would trigger a backlash which would dwarf the one that caused MS to reverse course). Its also worth noting that both offer consumers more control over digital content than Nintendo. With Nintendo purchases are tied to hardware, so if you buy games on a 3DS and then decide you want a 3DS XL, you can't just sign into your old system and redownload all of your purchased content, you have to ship both your systems to Nintendo so they can handle the process themselves.

Clearly you are determined to stick with the Wii U and that's fine and good, but it doesn't make much sense to do so if your big worry is your rights as a consumer.

Avatar image for Venom_Raptor
Venom_Raptor

6959

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 124

User Lists: 0

#42 Venom_Raptor
Member since 2010 • 6959 Posts

A gory, adult-orientated game like that on any Nintendo console is bound to flop. Promo material made it look better than it actually was unfortunately.

Avatar image for Metamania
Metamania

12035

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#43 Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12035 Posts

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]As much as Nintendo pisses me off of late, I very much agree with them on their philosophy that games should be viewed as toys, and if developers are concerned about the used game market to make better games.MirkoS77

They said that? Man, f*ck that, and f*ck Nintendo, too. Way to devalue how far games have come.

I don't see that comment as to how games are designed, only marketed. Do you want to own or rent them?

That depends on which title you're talking about. For me, when I use Gamefly, I use it for most of the games that I just want to check out without having to pay for it in full and then there are other games that are the exception in terms of buying and owning them, like with some of my favorite franchises (Saints Row, Fable, etc). But a game that's viewed as toys...I see where they are coming from with that and actually, I like that. Yes, these "toys" are expensive, but they come with their own strengths and weaknesses and can last either a short time or forever, depending on how much time you put into playing the toy.

Avatar image for MirkoS77
MirkoS77

17532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#44 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17532 Posts

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

As much as Nintendo pisses me off of late, I very much agree with them on their philosophy that games should be viewed as toys, and if developers are concerned about the used game market to make better games.

CarnageHeart

MS's move was insane because it tried to push gamers towards an inevitability through negative, coercive means. ITunes is now how most people buy their music, but Apple didn't touch CDs (of course, they lacked the power to do so). They didn't need to. They made DD cheaper and more convenient and CDs just kind of faded away. Same with Steam. Retailers were horrible about stocking PC games and Steam gave gamers a place to easily find PC games and often made them cheaper than retail.

Game designers are giving gamers positive reasons to go online. As a recent article I read (in Eurogamer or Gamasutra, I forget which) pointed out, developers are drawing inspiration from the likes of Journey and Demon's Souls, which didn't have this multiplayer mode which was a distinct thing from SP, but part of the whole experience (Tom Clancy's The Unit is a good example). Both Sony and MS are allowing people to share game footage with friends and both are shipping with big hard drives and have announced that all games will be for sale online at the same time they are on shelves (Sony has already done this with the Vita). Also, both Sony and MS are working on kid-friendly play-create-share games (Media Molecule's unnamed PS4 project and MS's Project Spark) which allow those with an internet connection to download player created games.

So neither Sony nor MS are going to retroactively strip away consumers' rights (that would be an insane move which would trigger a backlash which would dwarf the one that caused MS to reverse course). Its also worth noting that both offer consumers more control over digital content than Nintendo. With Nintendo purchases are tied to hardware, so if you buy games on a 3DS and then decide you want a 3DS XL, you can't just sign into your old system and redownload all of your purchased content, you have to ship both your systems to Nintendo so they can handle the process themselves.

Clearly you are determined to stick with the Wii U and that's fine and good, but it doesn't make much sense to do so if your big worry is your rights as a consumer.

I'm clearly determined NOT to stick with the Wii U, quite the contrary.

I will continue to remain miles away from them until they decide to modernize and remedy their archaic and admittedly anti-consumer practices.  That being said, I do agree with Miyamoto's statement that games should be viewed the same as toys in the sense that they are a product to be owned, not licensed. I wish for physical media to always remain an option.  With MS and Sony I believe that while they will transition and adopt the digital age in a way that will ultimately benefit us as Steam has, it will come at a cost of there being no other option. 

My agreement with Nintendo on this is in no way me attempting to excuse their asinine account system (among other things) in terms of rights or convenience.  But I can't agree that Sony or MS are not going to attempt to strip away our rights, as this is the way the industry is headed and both companies are going to subtly head in that direction, it will only be slowly drawn out.  MS showed their insanity and their approach was wrong.  That was their mistake.  But the intent is there, and it has happened with Steam.  There is no borrowing or selling of PC games anymore and it's been that way for years now.  Those rights were not "stripped" in the strictest sense of the word, but instead (as you noted) slowly faded into obscurity when the benefits outweighed the cons.  But the end result is basically the same.....rights held previously are lessened because people were given greater incentive elsewhere to help justify their abandonment.

So at a time like this I appreciate when a company comes out and says they view games as products, though with the brilliant minds that are running Nintendo today, I do worry if they will be able to stamp their code onto discs correctly.

Avatar image for MirkoS77
MirkoS77

17532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#45 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17532 Posts

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"][QUOTE="c_rake"]

They said that? Man, f*ck that, and f*ck Nintendo, too. Way to devalue how far games have come.

Metamania

I don't see that comment as to how games are designed, only marketed. Do you want to own or rent them?

That depends on which title you're talking about. For me, when I use Gamefly, I use it for most of the games that I just want to check out without having to pay for it in full and then there are other games that are the exception in terms of buying and owning them, like with some of my favorite franchises (Saints Row, Fable, etc). But a game that's viewed as toys...I see where they are coming from with that and actually, I like that. Yes, these "toys" are expensive, but they come with their own strengths and weaknesses and can last either a short time or forever, depending on how much time you put into playing the toy.

Sorry, what I meant was, when you drop $60 on a game, do you wish to own that game, or rent it?  Nintendo's saying games are toys in the sense that they are entertainment products:

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/miyamoto-says-publishers-should-see-game-ownership-like-a-toy-company-6410237

I agree with him and I'd think anyone who cares about used games would too.  Now they just need to get the DD up to snuff to offer us both.

 

Avatar image for gbrading
gbrading

8085

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 35

User Lists: 0

#46 gbrading
Member since 2005 • 8085 Posts

I don't know about the argument that the Wii U isn't for "serious" games. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories on the Wii was both an excellent game and a great Wii experience, given how the used the Wiimote as a flashlight and a mobile phone at the same time. I think it's shortsighted to say that Nintendo platforms can't have those kind of experiences. Eternal Darkness anyone?

Avatar image for CarnageHeart
CarnageHeart

18316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#47 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

As much as Nintendo pisses me off of late, I very much agree with them on their philosophy that games should be viewed as toys, and if developers are concerned about the used game market to make better games.

MirkoS77

MS's move was insane because it tried to push gamers towards an inevitability through negative, coercive means. ITunes is now how most people buy their music, but Apple didn't touch CDs (of course, they lacked the power to do so). They didn't need to. They made DD cheaper and more convenient and CDs just kind of faded away. Same with Steam. Retailers were horrible about stocking PC games and Steam gave gamers a place to easily find PC games and often made them cheaper than retail.

Game designers are giving gamers positive reasons to go online. As a recent article I read (in Eurogamer or Gamasutra, I forget which) pointed out, developers are drawing inspiration from the likes of Journey and Demon's Souls, which didn't have this multiplayer mode which was a distinct thing from SP, but part of the whole experience (Tom Clancy's The Unit is a good example). Both Sony and MS are allowing people to share game footage with friends and both are shipping with big hard drives and have announced that all games will be for sale online at the same time they are on shelves (Sony has already done this with the Vita). Also, both Sony and MS are working on kid-friendly play-create-share games (Media Molecule's unnamed PS4 project and MS's Project Spark) which allow those with an internet connection to download player created games.

So neither Sony nor MS are going to retroactively strip away consumers' rights (that would be an insane move which would trigger a backlash which would dwarf the one that caused MS to reverse course). Its also worth noting that both offer consumers more control over digital content than Nintendo. With Nintendo purchases are tied to hardware, so if you buy games on a 3DS and then decide you want a 3DS XL, you can't just sign into your old system and redownload all of your purchased content, you have to ship both your systems to Nintendo so they can handle the process themselves.

Clearly you are determined to stick with the Wii U and that's fine and good, but it doesn't make much sense to do so if your big worry is your rights as a consumer.

I'm clearly determined NOT to stick with the Wii U, quite the contrary.

I will continue to remain miles away from them until they decide to modernize and remedy their archaic and admittedly anti-consumer practices. That being said, I do agree with Miyamoto's statement that games should be viewed the same as toys in the sense that they are a product to be owned, not licensed. I wish for physical media to always remain an option. With MS and Sony I believe that while they will transition and adopt the digital age in a way that will ultimately benefit us as Steam has, it will come at a cost of there being no other option.

My agreement with Nintendo on this is in no way me attempting to excuse their asinine account system (among other things) in terms of rights or convenience. But I can't agree that Sony or MS are not going to attempt to strip away our rights, as this is the way the industry is headed and both companies are going to subtly head in that direction, it will only be slowly drawn out. MS showed their insanity and their approach was wrong. That was their mistake. But the intent is there, and it has happened with Steam. There is no borrowing or selling of PC games anymore and it's been that way for years now. Those rights were not "stripped" in the strictest sense of the word, but instead (as you noted) slowly faded into the background when the benefits outweighed the cons. But the end result is basically the same.....rights held previously are gone because people were given greater incentive elsewhere to help justify their abandonment.

So at a time like this I appreciate when a company comes out and says they view games as products, though with the brilliant minds that are running Nintendo today, I do worry if they will be able to stamp their code onto discs correctly.

Even when MS was at its craziest they didn't say they were going to wipe out physical media (they just said they would take away all of the rights traditionally associated with that medium :P) because for the forseeable future many people's download speeds/bandwith caps can't handle DD only for consoles.

Its also worth noting that computer game and music sales are overwhelmingly digital, books are mostly there and movies are getting there but in all four cases those who really want physical copies can get them.

Last but not least, I don't see how views of mediums have anything to do with views of games. If one asked a writer what sort of books he wrote and he told you 'Physical books' that would tell you nothing useful. Same with games.

Avatar image for CarnageHeart
CarnageHeart

18316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#48 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

I don't know about the argument that the Wii U isn't for "serious" games. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories on the Wii was both an excellent game and a great Wii experience, given how the used the Wiimote as a flashlight and a mobile phone at the same time. I think it's shortsighted to say that Nintendo platforms can't have those kind of experiences. Eternal Darkness anyone?

gbrading

It should be kept in mind that like Zombie U Eternal Darkness and Shattered Memories lost money. Sure, the Wii U can offer those types of experiences, but if consumers don't buy them, companies won't make a habit of offering them.

Avatar image for MirkoS77
MirkoS77

17532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#49 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17532 Posts

Even when MS was at its craziest they didn't say they were going to wipe out physical media (they just said they would take away all of the rights traditionally associated with that medium :P) because for the forseeable future many people's download speeds/bandwith caps can't handle DD only for consoles.

Its also worth noting that computer game and music sales are overwhelmingly digital, books are mostly there and movies are getting there but in all four cases those who really want physical copies can get them.

Last but not least, I don't see how views of mediums have anything to do with views of games. If one asked a writer what sort of books he wrote and he told you 'Physical books' that would tell you nothing useful. Same with games.

CarnageHeart

It would if I were a book collector. :)

No, MS never came out and explicity stated they wanted to eradicate physical media, but that's simply due to the fact that the tech is not quite there yet to make it a practical or efficient method.  But as evidenced by their policies they would've had they had a choice, the only thing stopping them are the things you mentioned.

Avatar image for Metamania
Metamania

12035

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#50 Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12035 Posts

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]I don't see that comment as to how games are designed, only marketed. Do you want to own or rent them?MirkoS77

That depends on which title you're talking about. For me, when I use Gamefly, I use it for most of the games that I just want to check out without having to pay for it in full and then there are other games that are the exception in terms of buying and owning them, like with some of my favorite franchises (Saints Row, Fable, etc). But a game that's viewed as toys...I see where they are coming from with that and actually, I like that. Yes, these "toys" are expensive, but they come with their own strengths and weaknesses and can last either a short time or forever, depending on how much time you put into playing the toy.

Sorry, what I meant was, when you drop $60 on a game, do you wish to own that game, or rent it? Nintendo's saying games are toys in the sense that they are entertainment products:

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/miyamoto-says-publishers-should-see-game-ownership-like-a-toy-company-6410237

I agree with him and I'd think anyone who cares about used games would too. Now they just need to get the DD up to snuff to offer us both.

Again, that only depends on the game. That's why you make the decision to either rent or own before you drop the $60.