The XBOX : spiritual successor to the Dreamcast

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#1 Posted by Shenmue_Jehuty (5211 posts) -

I took advantage of a sale at a local media store and bought a ton of XBOX games that I've been putting off buying for some time (they were $2 each, it doesn't get much cheaper then that). Among them were many games developed and published by Sega (Sega GT 2002, Jetset Radio Future, Crazy Taxi 3, Gunvalkyrie). While testing out the Sega GT/Jetset combo disc on my XBOX, there were also a ton of video previews for games published by Sega that were coming soon for the XBOX back then. While watching some of these previews I could help but think that in many ways, the XBOX carried the torch that would have otherwise been held by the Dreamcast had it not gone bellyup in 2001. What I mean by that is that many of the Sega games on the XBOX would have been released on the Dreamcast (and many were, like Jetset and Shenmue II in other regions). I just couldn't help but feel like the XBOX is in many way the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast given its saturation of games that would have otherwise been on the Dreamcast. I know that Sega released a lot of other exclusive and non-exclusive games on other systems throughout last gen, however the ones that were exclusive to the XBOX seem to carry that Dreamcast asthetic while others don't. What are your thoughts on this?

I've recently come to really appreciate the XBOX's library of games, especially the more obscure titles, and this realization has made me enjoy it even more.

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#2 Posted by rilpas (8161 posts) -
in some ways it was, in others it wasn't sega was really great at supporting the xbox and xbox live was an evolution of the dreamarena but the xbox was very shooter focused, something which the dreamcast was not
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#3 Posted by TheSacredFlame (324 posts) -

Didn't Sega have some hand in the development of the Xbox? Considering the controllers have similar looks to them?

Anyways, I love the Xbox and the Dreamcast. I only wish that I had more games for them both.

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#4 Posted by Shenmue_Jehuty (5211 posts) -

in some ways it was, in others it wasn't sega was really great at supporting the xbox and xbox live was an evolution of the dreamarena but the xbox was very shooter focused, something which the dreamcast was notrilpas

I know it had a lot of shooters, and in no way do I believe Halo would have ever come out for the Dreamcast if it had survived longer, but I'm mostly saying that it became a surragate system for most of the games that would have otherwise been on the Dreamcast.

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#5 Posted by Shenmue_Jehuty (5211 posts) -

Didn't Sega have some hand in the development of the Xbox? Considering the controllers have similar looks to them?

Anyways, I love the Xbox and the Dreamcast. I only wish that I had more games for them both.

TheSacredFlame

That's another thing, the controller. It is very similar to the Dreamcast's, it's almost like an evolved Dreamcast controller. I'm not sure of Sega did however have anything to do with the XBOX, would be interesting if someone could give us some info on that though.

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#6 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

[QUOTE="rilpas"]in some ways it was, in others it wasn't sega was really great at supporting the xbox and xbox live was an evolution of the dreamarena but the xbox was very shooter focused, something which the dreamcast was notShenmue_Jehuty

I know it had a lot of shooters, and in no way do I believe Halo would have ever come out for the Dreamcast if it had survived longer, but I'm mostly saying that it became a surragate system for most of the games that would have otherwise been on the Dreamcast.

I completely agree with what you're saying. A lot of great Sega games or series that started on Dreamcast that continued on the XBox. Panzer Dragoon: Orta, Shenmue II, Sega GT 2002, Project Gotham Racing, Jetset Radio Future, Unreal Championship 2, Crazy Taxi 3, House of the Dead III, Gunvalkyrie, Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Mega Collection Plus. I'm sure they all would have been Dreamcast games if the plug had not been pulled on the console.

And the XBox controller really was an evolution of the Dreamcast pad. It's basically the same controller with the added extra black & white buttons and with the oh-so-needed 2nd thumbstick.

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#7 Posted by Bubble_Man (3100 posts) -

It had strong support from Sega, but it didn't really have a Dreamcast-like feel overall.

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#8 Posted by deactivated-57ad0e5285d73 (21398 posts) -
Im almost positive that both the Dreamcast and Xbox share the same directors in the US.
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#9 Posted by Shenmue_Jehuty (5211 posts) -

It had strong support from Sega, but it didn't really have a Dreamcast-like feel overall.

Bubble_Man

I would completely disagree, especially the games released by Sega. I could totally see Panzer Dragoon Orta being on the Dreamcast had it survived another year.

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#10 Posted by Dudersaper (32951 posts) -
I've always thought this too, actually. I agree with pretty much everything you said and what was said about the controller. It's a pity both the Dreamcast and the XBOX didn't get as much support as they deserved like the PS2 did.
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#11 Posted by amari24 (1899 posts) -

[QUOTE="TheSacredFlame"]

Didn't Sega have some hand in the development of the Xbox? Considering the controllers have similar looks to them?

Anyways, I love the Xbox and the Dreamcast. I only wish that I had more games for them both.

Shenmue_Jehuty

That's another thing, the controller. It is very similar to the Dreamcast's, it's almost like an evolved Dreamcast controller. I'm not sure of Sega did however have anything to do with the XBOX, would be interesting if someone could give us some info on that though.

I recall reading a few years back that the guy who designed the Dreamcast controller also designed the XBox controller, hence the uncanny resemblance. I'm assuming he went over to Microsoft after the Dreamcast launched, and with permission from Sega, used the same layout. So yes, indirectly (and willingly), Sega did help Microsoft with the XBox. I agree with the connection too, OP. I always felt the XBox was essentially the Dreamcast reborn. Sega's good relationship with MS in that time span only solidified it.
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#12 Posted by Meeeper282 (1597 posts) -

Well they both did flop, so i know where your comming from

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#13 Posted by Shenmue_Jehuty (5211 posts) -

Well they both did flop, so i know where your comming from

Meeeper282

I think an explaination is due if you actually think the XBOX flopped. Let's hear it.

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#14 Posted by rilpas (8161 posts) -

[QUOTE="rilpas"]in some ways it was, in others it wasn't sega was really great at supporting the xbox and xbox live was an evolution of the dreamarena but the xbox was very shooter focused, something which the dreamcast was notShenmue_Jehuty

I know it had a lot of shooters, and in no way do I believe Halo would have ever come out for the Dreamcast if it had survived longer, but I'm mostly saying that it became a surragate system for most of the games that would have otherwise been on the Dreamcast.

yep, it was a surrogate system, heck a lot of Sega's staff were eventually hired by microsoft including Bernie Stolar, then CEO of Sega of America

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#15 Posted by rilpas (8161 posts) -

Well they both did flop, so i know where your comming from

Meeeper282
this isn't system wars, take it somewhere else
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#16 Posted by Darkman2007 (17928 posts) -

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]in some ways it was, in others it wasn't sega was really great at supporting the xbox and xbox live was an evolution of the dreamarena but the xbox was very shooter focused, something which the dreamcast was notrilpas

I know it had a lot of shooters, and in no way do I believe Halo would have ever come out for the Dreamcast if it had survived longer, but I'm mostly saying that it became a surragate system for most of the games that would have otherwise been on the Dreamcast.

yep, it was a surrogate system, heck a lot of Sega's staff were eventually hired by microsoft including Bernie Stolar, then CEO of Sega of America

Stolar left before the Dreamcast's US launch I think , I think the person your are refering to was Peter Moore , who later ended up working for EA after leaving Microsoft. just remember that the PS2 did get Virtua Fighter 4 , which was a huge game , especially in Japan , so the Xbox didn't get everything, the dilemma for Sega was that despite the Xbox being a very nice system (easy to work with too, or at least the architecture was not new) , the system itself didn't do well at all in Japan , a core market for Sega obviously.
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#17 Posted by rilpas (8161 posts) -

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

I know it had a lot of shooters, and in no way do I believe Halo would have ever come out for the Dreamcast if it had survived longer, but I'm mostly saying that it became a surragate system for most of the games that would have otherwise been on the Dreamcast.

Darkman2007

yep, it was a surrogate system, heck a lot of Sega's staff were eventually hired by microsoft including Bernie Stolar, then CEO of Sega of America

Stolar left before the Dreamcast's US launch I think , I think the person your are refering to was Peter Moore , who later ended up working for EA after leaving Microsoft. just remember that the PS2 did get Virtua Fighter 4 , which was a huge game , especially in Japan , so the Xbox didn't get everything, the dilemma for Sega was that despite the Xbox being a very nice system (easy to work with too, or at least the architecture was not new) , the system itself didn't do well at all in Japan , a core market for Sega obviously.

ah right, I was thinking of Peter Moore, my bad

what did happen to Stollar after he left Sega?

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#18 Posted by Darkman2007 (17928 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="rilpas"] yep, it was a surrogate system, heck a lot of Sega's staff were eventually hired by microsoft including Bernie Stolar, then CEO of Sega of America

rilpas

Stolar left before the Dreamcast's US launch I think , I think the person your are refering to was Peter Moore , who later ended up working for EA after leaving Microsoft. just remember that the PS2 did get Virtua Fighter 4 , which was a huge game , especially in Japan , so the Xbox didn't get everything, the dilemma for Sega was that despite the Xbox being a very nice system (easy to work with too, or at least the architecture was not new) , the system itself didn't do well at all in Japan , a core market for Sega obviously.

ah right, I was thinking of Peter Moore, my bad

what did happen to Stollar after he left Sega?

to be honest, I have no idea. he did work at Sony prior to working at Sega , and was involved in one way or another with the early PS1 launch and such.
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#19 Posted by logicalfrank (1686 posts) -

There is something similar in feel to the DC and Xbox to me, might just be those big old controllers though. They were also both the most focussed on online play for their respective times. (They were both the same generation but the state of the internet was way different when Xbox was released than when DC came out.)

On a related note, Sega did some of its best work on other consoles after they dropped out of the console business themselves. Their Xbox lineup has been discussed but look at their lineup on GBA has tons of really great games as well.

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#20 Posted by Megavideogamer (6357 posts) -

Microsoft was a part of the Dreamcast. They provided the OS and helped with the On-line. The Dreamcast is kinda in a way the first trail run of the Xbox.

So yep the Original Xbox is the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast.

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#21 Posted by MonkeySpot (6070 posts) -

I can see the connections here...

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#22 Posted by Kaszilla (1841 posts) -

Well they both did flop, so i know where your comming from

Meeeper282
Sold more than the gamecube.
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#23 Posted by Kaszilla (1841 posts) -
[QUOTE="Meeeper282"]

Well they both did flop, so i know where your comming from

Kaszilla
Sold more than the gamecube.

I agree, the Xbox is like the DC 1.5
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#24 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

It got quite some Sega games but in terms of hardware I don't really see the connection.

Plus Sega was not it's exclusive developer (they made PS2 and GC games too).

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#25 Posted by Shenmue_Jehuty (5211 posts) -

It got quite some Sega games but in terms of hardware I don't really see the connection.

Plus Sega was not it's exclusive developer (they made PS2 and GC games too).

nameless12345

yes, the hardware is very different, and yes both the PS2 and GC got their own Sega games too, but the ones released on the XBOX had that Dreamcast asthetic while many of the ones released on the other 2 systems did not. I can't imagine games like Yakuza being a Dreamcast game, however I could see Otogi being a Dreamcast game.

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#26 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

It got quite some Sega games but in terms of hardware I don't really see the connection.

Plus Sega was not it's exclusive developer (they made PS2 and GC games too).

Shenmue_Jehuty

yes, the hardware is very different, and yes both the PS2 and GC got their own Sega games too, but the ones released on the XBOX had that Dreamcast asthetic while many of the ones released on the other 2 systems did not. I can't imagine games like Yakuza being a Dreamcast game, however I could see Otogi being a Dreamcast game.

But GC got the most Sonic games and Virtua Fighter 4 (Evo) was exclusive to PS2.

I otherwise agree Sega was most creative on Xbox (Otogi, Panzer Dragoon Orta, OutRun 2, Sega GT 2002, ect.).

I've heard MS even wanted to buy Sega at the time (they buyed Rare instead which I regret *a lot*).

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#27 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

It got quite some Sega games but in terms of hardware I don't really see the connection.

Plus Sega was not it's exclusive developer (they made PS2 and GC games too).

nameless12345

yes, the hardware is very different, and yes both the PS2 and GC got their own Sega games too, but the ones released on the XBOX had that Dreamcast asthetic while many of the ones released on the other 2 systems did not. I can't imagine games like Yakuza being a Dreamcast game, however I could see Otogi being a Dreamcast game.

But GC got the most Sonic games and Virtua Fighter 4 (Evo) was exclusive to PS2.

I otherwise agree Sega was most creative on Xbox (Otogi, Panzer Dragoon Orta, OutRun 2, Sega GT 2002, ect.).

Well, there was only 2 Sonic games on Dreamcast. And XBox got plenty of Sonic games anyways: Sonic Heroes, Sonic Riders, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Mega Collection Plus.

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#28 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

yes, the hardware is very different, and yes both the PS2 and GC got their own Sega games too, but the ones released on the XBOX had that Dreamcast asthetic while many of the ones released on the other 2 systems did not. I can't imagine games like Yakuza being a Dreamcast game, however I could see Otogi being a Dreamcast game.

Emerald_Warrior

But GC got the most Sonic games and Virtua Fighter 4 (Evo) was exclusive to PS2.

I otherwise agree Sega was most creative on Xbox (Otogi, Panzer Dragoon Orta, OutRun 2, Sega GT 2002, ect.).

Well, there was only 2 Sonic games on Dreamcast. And XBox got plenty of Sonic games anyways: Sonic Heroes, Sonic Riders, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Mega Collection Plus.

True, however Sonic Adventure DX and Adventure 2: Battle were GC exclusives (besides also having the games you mentioned).

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#29 Posted by NiKva (8181 posts) -
Sega probably wanted to support the up and coming console so that it could fare against the PS2 and Gamecube, which come from companies that are already well renowned.
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#30 Posted by GeoffZak (3715 posts) -

The controller of the Xbox is another thing. It's a blatant rip off of the Dreamcast controller.

It's funny how all the Sony haters were up in arms over Sony somewhat copying the SNES controller design, but when Microsoft comes along and blatantly copies the Dreamcast controller, nobody says a thing.

(Yeah, some people actually think the PS1 controller is a rip off of the SNES controller. It SOMEWHAT resembles the SNES controller, but I think those people were reading too much into it.)

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#31 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

But GC got the most Sonic games and Virtua Fighter 4 (Evo) was exclusive to PS2.

I otherwise agree Sega was most creative on Xbox (Otogi, Panzer Dragoon Orta, OutRun 2, Sega GT 2002, ect.).

nameless12345

Well, there was only 2 Sonic games on Dreamcast. And XBox got plenty of Sonic games anyways: Sonic Heroes, Sonic Riders, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Mega Collection Plus.

True, however Sonic Adventure DX and Adventure 2: Battle were GC exclusives (besides also having the games you mentioned).

Yeah, but they were already on the Dreamcast. Which wouldn't make them games that would have been on the Dreamcast had it survived, because they're already there.

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#32 Posted by Shenmue_Jehuty (5211 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

Well, there was only 2 Sonic games on Dreamcast. And XBox got plenty of Sonic games anyways: Sonic Heroes, Sonic Riders, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Mega Collection Plus.

Emerald_Warrior

True, however Sonic Adventure DX and Adventure 2: Battle were GC exclusives (besides also having the games you mentioned).

Yeah, but they were already on the Dreamcast. Which wouldn't make them games that would have been on the Dreamcast had it survived, because they're already there.

Yes, exactly! There are so many XBOX games that I could have totally seen a release for had it survived longer. All the Sonic games that came out for the XBOX and other consoles are a given obviously.

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#33 Posted by thebest31406 (3775 posts) -
That's the impression the Xbox had on me when I first laid eyes on it. The console for example looked like a big black dreamcast and it's controller was almost identical to that console. And all of those Sega titles that were released for the first few years.
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#34 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

There was a very mysterious absence of a lot of Sega's big franchises on the Dreamcast. If some of those were paid attention to, I think the system might have lasted a little longer. Popular franchises like Shinobi, Streets of Rage, Virtua Cop, and Golden Axe.

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#35 Posted by nintendoboy16 (33744 posts) -

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

But GC got the most Sonic games and Virtua Fighter 4 (Evo) was exclusive to PS2.

I otherwise agree Sega was most creative on Xbox (Otogi, Panzer Dragoon Orta, OutRun 2, Sega GT 2002, ect.).

nameless12345

Well, there was only 2 Sonic games on Dreamcast. And XBox got plenty of Sonic games anyways: Sonic Heroes, Sonic Riders, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Mega Collection Plus.

True, however Sonic Adventure DX and Adventure 2: Battle were GC exclusives (besides also having the games you mentioned).

Adventure DX is on PC.
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#36 Posted by Darkman2007 (17928 posts) -

There was a very mysterious absence of a lot of Sega's big franchises on the Dreamcast. If some of those were paid attention to, I think the system might have lasted a little longer. Popular franchises like Shinobi, Streets of Rage, Virtua Cop, and Golden Axe.

Emerald_Warrior
I think Sega tried to reinvent itself somewhat with the Dreamcast (it does have a "out with the old, in with the new" vibe to it) , going away from the supposidly bad and unpopular Sega to a more likeable new Sega. maybe thats why they didn't give their old franchises too much time. although Virtua Cop 2 did come out on the Dreamcast, though its a port of the PC version (wheres the Saturn version was a port of the original arcade)
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#37 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

Well, there was only 2 Sonic games on Dreamcast. And XBox got plenty of Sonic games anyways: Sonic Heroes, Sonic Riders, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Mega Collection Plus.

nintendoboy16

True, however Sonic Adventure DX and Adventure 2: Battle were GC exclusives (besides also having the games you mentioned).

Adventure DX is on PC.

PC doesn't count when we talk about consoles.

For example FFVII and MGS were still PS1 exclusives at the time despite getting ported over to the PC too.

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#38 Posted by rilpas (8161 posts) -

The controller of the Xbox is another thing. It's a blatant rip off of the Dreamcast controller.

It's funny how all the Sony haters were up in arms over Sony somewhat copying the SNES controller design, but when Microsoft comes along and blatantly copies the Dreamcast controller, nobody says a thing.

(Yeah, some people actually think the PS1 controller is a rip off of the SNES controller. It SOMEWHAT resembles the SNES controller, but I think those people were reading too much into it.)GeoffZak

take it to system wars

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#39 Posted by NirdBerd (2113 posts) -

I feel like I'm in a minority group of people when I say that the Xbox is one of the greatest consoles ever, and a powerful one too.

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#40 Posted by rilpas (8161 posts) -

I feel like I'm in a minority group of people when I say that the Xbox is one of the greatest consoles ever, and a powerful one too.

NirdBerd
I think it depends on whether or not you have a gaming PC if you don't have one, then yes, I agree, it's one of the best
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#41 Posted by DreamStation360 (33 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="rilpas"] yep, it was a surrogate system, heck a lot of Sega's staff were eventually hired by microsoft including Bernie Stolar, then CEO of Sega of America

rilpas

Stolar left before the Dreamcast's US launch I think , I think the person your are refering to was Peter Moore , who later ended up working for EA after leaving Microsoft. just remember that the PS2 did get Virtua Fighter 4 , which was a huge game , especially in Japan , so the Xbox didn't get everything, the dilemma for Sega was that despite the Xbox being a very nice system (easy to work with too, or at least the architecture was not new) , the system itself didn't do well at all in Japan , a core market for Sega obviously.

ah right, I was thinking of Peter Moore, my bad

what did happen to Stollar after he left Sega?

Hopefully he died. His poor decisions were a major part of the reason the Saturn failed so miserable in the US. He felt that Japanese role playing games would not do well in America so the majority of them were never released here.

On topic though to me, Xbox and 360 are the successors to the Dreamcast. That's why I went from the dc to the Xbox.

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#42 Posted by Darkman2007 (17928 posts) -

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] Stolar left before the Dreamcast's US launch I think , I think the person your are refering to was Peter Moore , who later ended up working for EA after leaving Microsoft. just remember that the PS2 did get Virtua Fighter 4 , which was a huge game , especially in Japan , so the Xbox didn't get everything, the dilemma for Sega was that despite the Xbox being a very nice system (easy to work with too, or at least the architecture was not new) , the system itself didn't do well at all in Japan , a core market for Sega obviously.DreamStation360

ah right, I was thinking of Peter Moore, my bad

what did happen to Stollar after he left Sega?

Hopefully he died. His poor decisions were a major part of the reason the Saturn failed so miserable in the US. He felt that Japanese role playing games would not do well in America so the majority of them were never released here.

On topic though to me, Xbox and 360 are the successors to the Dreamcast. That's why I went from the dc to the Xbox.

thats.....pretty harsh......
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#43 Posted by rilpas (8161 posts) -

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] Stolar left before the Dreamcast's US launch I think , I think the person your are refering to was Peter Moore , who later ended up working for EA after leaving Microsoft. just remember that the PS2 did get Virtua Fighter 4 , which was a huge game , especially in Japan , so the Xbox didn't get everything, the dilemma for Sega was that despite the Xbox being a very nice system (easy to work with too, or at least the architecture was not new) , the system itself didn't do well at all in Japan , a core market for Sega obviously.DreamStation360

ah right, I was thinking of Peter Moore, my bad

what did happen to Stollar after he left Sega?

Hopefully he died. His poor decisions were a major part of the reason the Saturn failed so miserable in the US. He felt that Japanese role playing games would not do well in America so the majority of them were never released here.

On topic though to me, Xbox and 360 are the successors to the Dreamcast. That's why I went from the dc to the Xbox.

I'm pretty sure that's moddable offense

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#44 Posted by Sali217 (1301 posts) -
Honestly, The Xbox was more like a spiritual successor to the Apple/Bandi Pippin. I know that sounds odd, but that's what the xbox ended up doing was definitely the direction that the Pippin was attempting to head. Unfortunately a combination of bad marketing, overpricing and general lack of games pushed the pippin into obscurity early on, but I would say the original xbox really built off a ton of it's features.