Story Driven Games: Can You Finish Them?

@The_Last_Ride

lol... See ?

You're doing "it" again....... :)

I don't have an issue with accepting something I don't like.... I can do that easily.... The issue arrises when you back up and take a closer look.

You know somebody once told me games are all about "immersion"...... As much as I liked the idea I could still see something was wrong with it...... Just like I do with how games are now.......

This whole "like it or not" thing was never a factor.....

Why do sites like Rev3Games, IGN, Gamespot, Machinima, GiantBomb, etc are all reviewing it. THat means they view it as a game...

@The_Last_Ride

How they view it is just that.... Their view.

If I were to hold a coin up to your face you would only "view" one side of it......

Its just pecreption. You remember Bioshock Infinite right ?

Things may have changed and people may like the changes, and we may have built a whole massive ecosystem out of these changes.... Doesn't mean they're not undisputable....... In essence thats sort of what happened, people are interchanging the concepts of colonizing and nativity.

Story driven games are the main reason I got into video games, I can honestly say if I never got into video game characters and stories, I wouldn't here. To answer your second question, both evenly keep my intrigued.

What are you talking about LuLu? defining games are as easy as defining what a car is, you might not like the idea that your 1million$ Ferrari is just a car like the 200$ Ford Mustang with rust all over. And people might argue from here until eternity that a Ferrari is more than just a car, but it doesn't change the facts.

We are dealing with an objective definition like with games and what can be called a game, so again yes Beyond two souls is just a game, Heavy Rain is just a game just like Pong is just a game or Farmville is just a game.

It´s kinda funny that you treat games like something subjective that are open for interpretation like art and what art is, but art is not games and games are never art.

@Jacanuk

I think you're confusing defining with coming to a conclusion.

And ofcourse a ferrari is a car..... The situation arise when in the future cars hover instead of role on wheels.... But I'm not going into that today....

Also I'm the only one here whos not treating it subjectively....

I hate the idea of art..... It overated and its a load of bullsh!t... Just like immersion..... !

Well, i dont know why others are looking at what is a game as something subjective. After all pick up any dictionary and look under what game is, and then you have what a game is.

And immersion isn't just a buzz word, infact thats the key to why a lot of gamers play games. But that is subjective ;)

@Jacanuk

Yes.... Because the guy who wrote the definition of the word game is totally a Super Mario fan.......

And the girl who wrote what colour is , is also totally a Super Mario Fan.

@Jacanuk

Nope.... Shes a Naruto fan Obviously...

Nah, thats what you think :)

@behardy24: "Story driven games are the main reason I got into video games, I can honestly say if I never got into video game characters and stories, I wouldn't here. To answer your second question, both evenly keep my intrigued"

You didn't answer the second question.

"Does the gameplay keep you engaged or is a good story enough for you to ignore lazy cut and paste scenarios?"

The question is asking if you can ignore mediocre gameplay for the sake of a good story.

I'm very surprised at the number of people that say story is the most important aspect to them in a video game. I guess I'll just have to accept that point of view as something I may never understand. I've always find the strength of this medium comes from that aspect that separates it from other mediums: interaction. The more a game attempts to tell you a specific story, the less choice/ interaction the player is given. It's this conflict between these two aspects that makes me feel like they'll never coexist to their fullest potential. Gameplay and story, for the most part, work against one another. Compromises have to be made on one end to accommodate the other.

Gameplay for me comes first and foremost. If the game isn't fun to play or has broken and/or underdeveloped mechanics then there really isn't a point. That being said, I do really enjoy story driven games. A lot of the times the story gives context to the players action and puts them in interesting scenarios that would otherwise seem out of place.

You've usually been pretty vocal about your dislike for narrative in games, Uncharted in particular (I fucking love Uncharted), but I find The Last of Us to be one of the few games that does the mixture of gameplay and story/narrative just right.

@Jacanuk

I can "think" ? :o

@Pikminmaniac: what about interactivity as a means to create your own story?

i think it needs to be a mix between, a bad gameplay will always bore us as would having too many cutscenes. But story really is one of the most important aspects of a game. Gameplay nowadays are extremeley similar in every fucking game. even controls are standardized. I think devs need to be a bit more creative.

But these make a freaking living off gaming. If the industry as a whole didn't feel that these weren't games, then nobody would review them...

@The_Last_Ride

Theres no rule that says you can't build an empire on a lie.... Infact thats pretty much how things usually are.

Nope, but who on this forum can that :D

@mastermetal777

".....interactivity as a means to create your own story?"

You mean interpretation.... (The Sims, Left 4 Dead) ?

Or do you you mean choose your own adventure type thing (Heavy Rain, Mass Effect) ?

I don't see a counter argument. You're basicly saying the entire industry behind a conspiracy to call Beyond Two Souls a game. You do know how stupid that sounds right?

@Pikminmaniac

I wouldn't be so bold to make a claim like that but all evidence up to this point has been in your favour..... The boys in the lab are hard at work trying to figure it out.

@The_Last_Ride

Its not a conspiracy, its the human condition, we blurr the facts with subjective bias constantly.....

And yeah I realise its stupid... Thats kind of the point, this medium is full of backwards thinking and you shouldn't expect its shortcommings to be deep and profound. Only humans are this self centered, we're so narcisistic that even when we're wrong we want to be wrong in a way that seems clever instead of accepting that sometimes we forget to plug in the machine when we complain that its broken..... Thats Gaming in a nutshell.

@Lulu_Lulu: why don't you make an actual counter argument instead of just saying "I think you're wrong. You mad?" As for what type of storytelling there should be, who cares? Stories are made in many different ways. Hell, I've made stories vastly different from one another. Some use world building, others have dialogue and human conflict, while a few are simply nothing but the character's thoughts. Video games have their own methods of storytelling distinct from one another. To say one way is the only way to do it is to limit the medium into producing only one type of video game, which would immediately kill the industry.

These are the definitions of a story:

1. a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.

2. a fictitious tale, shorter and less elaborate than a novel.

3. such narratives or tales as a branch of literature: song and story.

4. the plot or succession of incidents of a novel, poem, drama, etc.: The characterizations were good, but the story was weak.

5. a narration of an incident or a series of events or an example of these that is or may be narrated, as an anecdote, joke, etc.

Now tell me how video games can't possibly apply this when they have been trying to do so since the 1980s?

@mastermetal777: The only thing you need is interaction and BOOM! You got a game

@mastermetal777

Yeah.... All I did was ask what you meant....... You could atleast wait for me to actually make the argument before you jump the gun counter something I haven't said yet.....

Also I'd like to adress point 5..... The problem with narration of anything is just that, narration, to narrate is to tell a story...... Implying one person speaks and the other persons sits on their ass and does nothing more than listen..... Its the brick wall this medium has been running into since the 1980's.

Now if you want have a story in a game then no problem.... Story and Gameplay can coexist comfortably..... But if you want to somehow mix gameplay and narratives then you're in for a long and painfull eternity because these concepts clash at every turn.

Apart from Silent Hill 2, I don't believe I've played a video-game which deviates from It's paint-by-numbers genre template. Most, if not all, video-games have dull, derivative and genuinely shit storylines. There is no value in looking to games for story and it's high-time the industry shuts up about it.

@ChefPers0n:

"Apart from Silent Hill 2, I don't believe I've played a video-game which deviates from It's paint-by-numbers genre template. Most, if not all, video-games have dull, derivative and genuinely shit storylines. There is no value in looking to games for story and it's high-time the industry shuts up about it"

Hope you feel better now, no use keeping all that bullshit locked away inside

@xeno_ghost: Considering that you popped your Gamespot cherry with that, I can only assume my post angered you enough to warrant creating an account (or sock). It is a pity that you couldn't find an argument to accompany your bitterness and condescension.

I can finish them if the gameplay isn't oppressively awful. Unfortunately this is rarely the case.

For the exact same reasons as you, sir, I have never finished one story-based video game on my PS3.

For me, I can only play story driven games. I feel that when you only play games online, everything ends up repeating itself, and the gameplay elements become repetitive, therefore requiring you to buy DLC, such as map packs. Story driven games, however, have that same gameplay while engaging you and giving you something new at each and every turn. While story games are barely replayable, online games are, which is why a balance is needed. Personally, I do not like them, however I can see why people do. Games like bioshock have an incredibly engaging story while succeeding in creating a game that is worth playing in it's gameplay core. When a balance between the two is found, then it is something beautiful. Otherwise, it can be one way or the other, and that all depends on preference.

@evan22198: This. If you don't like story-driven games, don't play them. There are plenty of options for the gameplay-only crowd. Don't try to force your gaming preferences down everybody's throat saying that it's "the only way to play", because that's very narrow minded.

@ChefPers0n: I know you was just voicing your opinion but to say

"Most, if not all, video-games have dull, derivative and genuinely shit storylines"

It's kind of a dumb blanket statement.

@xeno_ghost: I wouldn't say "shit" storylines, but very few video games have truly great stories. Over 90% of games have very generic types of stories, like saving the world, defeating the enemy force, finding a hidden treasure, etc. Film can be the same way, as can novels, but video games seem to have it more so.

Well, games also have to be interactive but if you look at movies, book, music its also for 90% the exact same, they have a generic template they run by and just change the story.

I found The Last of Us' game play to be more engaging as it progressed. I'm usually able to finish narrative driven games. Most are short. Only time becomes a factor for me not finishing a game.

As Awesome as The Last Of Us was..... I think the best Story Driven games will come from the Adventure genre.....

My number 1 candidate is the deeply Flawed LA. Noire.

Actually now that I think about it.... What the hell does "Story-Driven" mean exactly ?

Does the story actually drive the game or does that simply mean that theres alot of story. ? Is it story-driven or "Story Heavy" ?

Or maybe the actual meaning got lost somewhere and now people think that "Story Driven" means the story "drives" the player.... Not the game.

Feel free to chip in...

@Lulu_Lulu: story-driven means that the main reason for playing the game - learning mechanics and all that - is to play through the game's story. It's a game where what you learn as you play is directly related to how the story plays out. This is opposed to gameplay-driven games, where the reason for playing is to become better at the game by mastering its rules.

I like to think that in a story-driven game the gameplay mechanics and progression all serve to further develop the plot rather than being simple means to end, and make sense lore-wise. To separate this from probably every game ever made, they rely on exposition and cutscenes.

I guess a story-heavy video game contains a lot of background lore, regardless of it's use in the actual gameplay

Didn't give this post much thought, gotta watch that World Cup :P

@mastermetal777

But you can still play a gameplay oriented game for the story, games usually include both and I don't think defining a game by what a user plays a specific game for as a reliable way to define something... After all, I didn't care much for TLOU's story, I kept playing for the gameplay.... Played it twice now, skipped past all the cutscenes on the second playthrough.

@SovietsUnited

The reall problem is seperating game mechanics that are story oriented from the game mechanics the the player merely perceives as being related to the story.....

The other problem is determining whether a game mechanic is actually gameplay or just an interaction...... Obviously before we can cross that bridge we need to clarify the difference between a gameplay and a game mechanic/interactions and how not all game mechanics/interactions are actually gameplay.....

Also I like football but damn I hate the World Cup..... I think the most exciting competition to watch is The UEFA Champions League.

@xeno_ghost: I can only assume that you aren't articulate enough to challenge the statement. Well then, just keep calling it "dumb" and "bullshit".

Though you're right, It's a deliberately superfluous blanket statement tailored to my opinion, but I wouldn't call it dumb. Had I said "all video-games have shit stories" then it would be dumb, but, as you can see, I word it like an estimation "most, if not all". This, I feel, redeems it from sounding too much like a sweeping generalisation.

It is a combination of both gameplay and story. First thing you notice is gameplay. Even if a game has a great story if you can't play it due to terrible gameplay then it fails. What keeps you around after that fact is the story. Last of Us is a good example. The gameplay was decent, but if the story wasn't good I would have put an hour into it then quit.

Wow this thread takes me back.....

Yep it takes you back 7 months to be precise.

But Thread Necromancy is just bad......

Please do not bump old threads, make sure to check the date of the last post before posting, will be locking this folks.