Revealing interview with a Gamecube marketer/retrospective of Nintendo

Its a combination of interview and historical piece (lots of links to old interviews but doesn't look like anyone still working at Nintendo spoke directly to the reporter about the article) and is a very interesting read. Full credit to the neogaf for the find.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=653527

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013/08/15/the-struggles-of-marketing-the-gamecube/

During the GameCube era, Nintendo of Japan became confused by North Americas obsession with violence, epic cinematic stories, and photo realistic graphics. Games such as Halo 2 (sold 8 million units) and Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (sold 17.33 million units) were stealing attention away from Nintendos first party GameCube software.

In meetings it was clear [Nintendo of Japan] could not understand why the brand had fallen so far here in North America or comprehend why the mature titles, and more powerful consoles, were so successful. Nintendo represented fun, in the purest sense of the word, they always have. When you play Nintendo games you laugh, you yell, you smile, and you jump around. You have FUN. Someone, sadly I forget who, would later quote in one of those meetings that Consumers dont want fun anymore; they just want to kill people in HD. It was actually kind of true, and with the cultural differences between Japan and the US, it was easy to understand the confusion, said Mercury in 2011.

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According to an NPD sales chart created by GamePro magazine (which you can see by scrolling below):

• GameCube sold 2.2 million units in North America during the first 10 months of launch. (Source: Joystiq)
• PlayStation 3 only sold 1.7 million units in North America during the first 10 months of launch. (Source: Joystiq)
• In both console generations, GameCube and PlayStation 3 were competing in a competitive market where three consoles fought for market share.

The difference is that PlayStation 3 miraculously turned around its gloomy situation by eventually selling between 75 to 80 million units worldwide. GameCube would only sell 21.7 million units worldwide by the end of its six year run.

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In an attempt to appeal to the PlayStation and Xbox crowds, Nintendo established deals with companies like Maxim and Heineken to reach the 17-to-25 year old males. Mercurys promotional teams would show off products like the Game Boy Advance SP at porn industry parties and night clubs. To fight the kiddy/toy image that GameCube was facing, Nintendo created promotional campaigns like Cube Clubs, Nintendo Fusion Tours, and the Who Are You? campaign to bring public awareness of their products to older demographics.

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Toward the end of the GameCube era, Nintendo lost confidence in their own fans. Nintendo was losing market share with each new console launched.

Pride turned to arrogance. Ugly arrogance. Nintendo started to develop contempt for the gaming community. They felt as if they were being betrayed by the gamers they created. The marketing teams started to look at gamer focused strategies with ire and spite. says Mercury. The hardcore Nintendo audience was equally cast aside. Why bother? Theyre going to buy anything we put out anyway.

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The article ends with a ton of links to interviews with Nintendo execs (and select quotes from those interviews). Below is the most hilarious.

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Reggie talks about the lessons Nintendo learned from GameCube.

First, weve got make sure that the titles in the first six months are strong and can drive sales. Weve also got to make sure the console is attractive visually. And weve got to deliver on the right consumer needs.

That's what happens when people from a tiny, culturally unique country try to run a multinational cultural company by imposing their ideas and disregarding feedback.

I think Nintendo was (and probably is) fooling itself about the popularity of action games back when Nintendo's console were popular among the core. Long before the Playstation, gamers loved action games like Berzerk, Combat!, Kung Fu, Commando, Contra, Virtua Cop, Ghosts n' Goblins, Mortal Kombat, NARC, Rolling Thunder, Castlevania, Final Fight and Ikari Warriors so the notion that one minute unicorns were farting rainbows at each other and the next people were suddenly shooting each other in the head holds zero truth. Heck, the publisher of the most popular console FPS in the 32/64 bit era was Nintendo.

That was an interesting read.

It's too late for Nintendo to change their image now, and they know it.    They had everything going for them during the SNES days.  A powerful 16 bit system,  great third party support and an awesome brand image.    Then the N64 came along and destroyed all of that, and it just continues on the the Gamecube, Wii, and now the Wii U.       If Nintendo of Japan hadn't been so stubborn,  they  could have prevented it from happening.       Reggie knew GEIST wasn't a Halo killer.   lol.

Great article, thanks for posting!

Seems like Nintendo (post SNES) has issues understanding and reacting to the market.

They actually thought Geist would be Halo. :lol:dvader654

That's what happens when people from a tiny, culturally unique country try to run a multinational cultural company by imposing their ideas and disregarding feedback.

ReddestSkies

Every country is culturally unique.  The specific problem with Japanese culture is that it's dumbfoundingly impervious to feedback.  Just look at the current problem with the nationalistic rhetoric spewing forth from the current Japanese government.  They just can't understand how any other country could possibly view them as having been the bad guys during the Pacific war.  Out of the goodness of their hearts, they were merely protecting Asia from Western Imperialism.  Nintendo is just protecting all of us from violent Western culture.

Keep in mind the atmosphere in Japan though.

Xbox wasn't even a factor in Japan.  Wii and PS3 was all they had.  Once people realized that Wii won't ever get quality third party, they started buying PS3's.

And the Wii was birthed from that arrogance and hatred for the gaming community. Given everything, I still can't fathom why Microsoft is so hellbent on becoming Nintendo with better third-party support. All of Nintendo's ideas with motion controls were not born out of intent to HELP the gaming community; but rather, to completely fvck it up ("disrupt" it, to use Nintendo's own term) because it didn't fit their nationalistic view on what was acceptable entertainment.

So sad to see the cavaliers of conventional gaming following the lead of Nintendo right off the cliff with shitty casual games and motion controls. 

[QUOTE="ReddestSkies"]

That's what happens when people from a tiny, culturally unique country try to run a multinational cultural company by imposing their ideas and disregarding feedback.

capaho

Every country is culturally unique.  The specific problem with Japanese culture is that it's dumbfoundingly impervious to feedback.  Just look at the current problem with the nationalistic rhetoric spewing forth from the current Japanese government.  They just can't understand how any other country could possibly view them as having been the bad guys during the Pacific war.  Out of the goodness of their hearts, they were merely protecting Asia from Western Imperialism.  Nintendo is just protecting all of us from violent Western culture.

Ok, that seems like quite a stretch. Japan is insular, sure, but not in all ways -- they love American pop culture, for example. They are decidedly anti-violence, though, and while I don't fault them for that, they can't be upset that they haven't been more of an influence on the western world in that regard. In fact, we are just as fvcked up in the other direction -- we are pro-violence, but almost puritanical when it comes to sex and nudity, which Japan is very open to. 

I haven't heard any Japanese people defend the country's choice to be on the wrong side of history during the last great war. Do you have any citations of such? In fact, I've found people don't like to talk about it, to be honest. I will say that when I went to the Pearl Harbor Memorial in Hawaii, Americans and Japanese stood at the watery graveyard and I saw eyes from both nationalities get teary. I think in spite of all the bad that came from that time, there was also good. 

Interesting read. Interesting to get a more in depth look into the cultural differences between NoA and NoJ, and some of Nintendo's hilarious attempts to market their products to the 18-24 year old male. The geist part was pretty funny too.

I would be more interested in hearing other in-depth persepctives though, as this really was just one guy out of a very large group I would imagine. I'm sure what this guy said has a good amount of truth to it, it would just be interesting to get other view points to help paint a bigger picture.

 

In meetings it was clear [Nintendo of Japan] could not understand why the brand had fallen so far here in North America or comprehend why the mature titles, and more powerful consoles, were so successful. Nintendo represented fun, in the purest sense of the word, they always have. When you play Nintendo games you laugh, you yell, you smile, and you jump around. You have FUN. Someone, sadly I forget who, would later quote in one of those meetings that Consumers dont want fun anymore; they just want to kill people in HD. It was actually kind of true, and with the cultural differences between Japan and the US, it was easy to understand the confusion, said Mercury in 2011.

 

CarnageHeart

This paragraph kills the entire thing for me.

Goldeneye and Perfect Dark didn't exist then, I guess.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

 

In meetings it was clear [Nintendo of Japan] could not understand why the brand had fallen so far here in North America or comprehend why the mature titles, and more powerful consoles, were so successful. Nintendo represented fun, in the purest sense of the word, they always have. When you play Nintendo games you laugh, you yell, you smile, and you jump around. You have FUN. Someone, sadly I forget who, would later quote in one of those meetings that Consumers dont want fun anymore; they just want to kill people in HD. It was actually kind of true, and with the cultural differences between Japan and the US, it was easy to understand the confusion, said Mercury in 2011.

 

IndianaPwns39

This paragraph kills the entire thing for me.

Goldeneye and Perfect Dark didn't exist then, I guess.

Neither of those games were made in Japan or by a Japanese developer.  I would need to double check, but I'm also pretty sure neither of them sold well in Japan.

Keep in mind the atmosphere in Japan though.

Xbox wasn't even a factor in Japan.  Wii and PS3 was all they had.  Once people realized that Wii won't ever get quality third party, they started buying PS3's.

drekula2

The PS 3 dominates the Japanese market in part because Japanese consumers favor domestic products over imported ones and mainly because Microsoft provided very little Japanese language support for the Xbox 360 when it was first introduced.  For the first few years, Xbox 360 games were primarily just the Asia releases with Japanese subtitles.  It took too long for MS to catch up with Sony in releasing Japanese language versions of popular games for the Japanese market and by that time the damage was done.

Ok, that seems like quite a stretch. Japan is insular, sure, but not in all ways -- they love American pop culture, for example. They are decidedly anti-violence, though, and while I don't fault them for that, they can't be upset that they haven't been more of an influence on the western world in that regard. In fact, we are just as fvcked up in the other direction -- we are pro-violence, but almost puritanical when it comes to sex and nudity, which Japan is very open to. 

I haven't heard any Japanese people defend the country's choice to be on the wrong side of history during the last great war. Do you have any citations of such? In fact, I've found people don't like to talk about it, to be honest. I will say that when I went to the Pearl Harbor Memorial in Hawaii, Americans and Japanese stood at the watery graveyard and I saw eyes from both nationalities get teary. I think in spite of all the bad that came from that time, there was also good. 

Shame-usBlackley

Do a few key word searches for things like "comfort women," "Abe" and "aggressor."  The Japanese government still officially denies that it was guilty of any atrocities during the war and Japan's current prime minister has said that whether or not Japan was the aggressor during the war is a matter of perspective.  The nationalistic rhetoric coming from government officials since the LDP was voted back into power has been causing some serious problems between Japan and its Asian neighbors, particularly China and South Korea.  Catch up on the international news for Asia.

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

 

In meetings it was clear [Nintendo of Japan] could not understand why the brand had fallen so far here in North America or comprehend why the mature titles, and more powerful consoles, were so successful. Nintendo represented fun, in the purest sense of the word, they always have. When you play Nintendo games you laugh, you yell, you smile, and you jump around. You have FUN. Someone, sadly I forget who, would later quote in one of those meetings that Consumers dont want fun anymore; they just want to kill people in HD. It was actually kind of true, and with the cultural differences between Japan and the US, it was easy to understand the confusion, said Mercury in 2011.

 

keech

This paragraph kills the entire thing for me.

Goldeneye and Perfect Dark didn't exist then, I guess.

Neither of those games were made in Japan or by a Japanese developer.  I would need to double check, but I'm also pretty sure neither of them sold well in Japan.

Yes but they're discussing why the brand fell so far in North America. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were two successful (in NA), exclusive to Nintendo titles that this paragraph is otherwise dismissing.

As if I couldn't lose any more faith in Nintendo.....I go on and read this article and it depresses me even more.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

Ok, that seems like quite a stretch. Japan is insular, sure, but not in all ways -- they love American pop culture, for example. They are decidedly anti-violence, though, and while I don't fault them for that, they can't be upset that they haven't been more of an influence on the western world in that regard. In fact, we are just as fvcked up in the other direction -- we are pro-violence, but almost puritanical when it comes to sex and nudity, which Japan is very open to.

I haven't heard any Japanese people defend the country's choice to be on the wrong side of history during the last great war. Do you have any citations of such? In fact, I've found people don't like to talk about it, to be honest. I will say that when I went to the Pearl Harbor Memorial in Hawaii, Americans and Japanese stood at the watery graveyard and I saw eyes from both nationalities get teary. I think in spite of all the bad that came from that time, there was also good.

capaho

Do a few key word searches for things like "comfort women," "Abe" and "aggressor." The Japanese government still officially denies that it was guilty of any atrocities during the war and Japan's current prime minister has said that whether or not Japan was the aggressor during the war is a matter of perspective. The nationalistic rhetoric coming from government officials since the LDP was voted back into power has been causing some serious problems between Japan and its Asian neighbors, particularly China and South Korea. Catch up on the international news for Asia.

Yes, some people in Japan have had problems accepting its wartime guilt, but they're hardly unique in that aspect (a lot of countries are the heroes or victims in their own stories).

More importantly, that has nothing to do with Nintendo. The Nintendo of old was a lot better about working with Western partners than modern Nintendo. NOA is a mouthpiece now, but they once had real power, negotiating deals and acquring and overseeing studios.

Also, modern Japanese companies like Sega, Sony, Squenix and Capcom have had no problem working with Western studios (Sony had an American helm development of the PS4) so within the context of the game industry, a relunctance to deal with foreigners doesn't seem to be a Japanese problem.

You can go back much before Goldeneye if you're looking for very popular violent games on Nintendo consoles.

You can go back much before Goldeneye if you're looking for very popular violent games on Nintendo consoles.

ReddestSkies

I remember playing Commando, Ikari Warriors, Contra and Freedom Force (one of the few games I've played where one can shoot a kid) on the NES.

Yes, some people in Japan have had problems accepting its wartime guilt, but they're hardly unique in that aspect (a lot of countries are the heroes or victims in their own stories).

More importantly, that has nothing to do with Nintendo. The Nintendo of old was a lot better about working with Western partners than modern Nintendo. NOA is a mouthpiece now, but they once had real power, negotiating deals and acquring and overseeing studios.

Also, modern Japanese companies like Sega, Sony, Squenix and Capcom have had no problem working with Western studios (Sony had an American helm development of the PS4) so within the context of the game industry, a relunctance to deal with foreigners doesn't seem to be a Japanese problem.

CarnageHeart

Of course, you had Oliver Stone running around Japan last week saying that Japan was a victim of American Imperialism during the war.  Beyond that, I doubt that the people of China and South Korea would be so quick to excuse Japan for its war crimes.

As for Nintendo, you have to view Nintendo's current problems within the context of the traditional Japanese management style, which is dumbfoundingly impervious to feedback.  Sony has had its own problems in that regard, but they did come around to some extent regarding the PS 3.  On the other hand, Sony is increasingly alienating itself from its US shareholders by refusing to heed the advise of some very influential investors regarding the overall management strategy of the company, thus the nosedive in its stock value a few days ago.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Yes, some people in Japan have had problems accepting its wartime guilt, but they're hardly unique in that aspect (a lot of countries are the heroes or victims in their own stories).

More importantly, that has nothing to do with Nintendo. The Nintendo of old was a lot better about working with Western partners than modern Nintendo. NOA is a mouthpiece now, but they once had real power, negotiating deals and acquring and overseeing studios.

Also, modern Japanese companies like Sega, Sony, Squenix and Capcom have had no problem working with Western studios (Sony had an American helm development of the PS4) so within the context of the game industry, a relunctance to deal with foreigners doesn't seem to be a Japanese problem.

capaho

Of course, you had Oliver Stone running around Japan last week saying that Japan was a victim of American Imperialism during the war. Beyond that, I doubt that the people of China and South Korea would be so quick to excuse Japan for its war crimes.

As for Nintendo, you have to view Nintendo's current problems within the context of the traditional Japanese management style, which is dumbfoundingly impervious to feedback. Sony has had its own problems in that regard, but they did come around to some extent regarding the PS 3. On the other hand, Sony is increasingly alienating itself from its US shareholders by refusing to heed the advise of some very influential investors regarding the overall management strategy of the company, thus the nosedive in its stock value a few days ago.

What does Oliver Stone have to do with anything and who said anything about Japan's war crimes being excusable?

As for Sony's disagreement with that big shareholder who wants them to split, headbutting between shareholders and corporate management is common (probably not as common as it should be though).

My point was and remains that many Japanese companies (including Nintendo in the past) are willing to work with non-Japanese so your claim that is unwilling to work with Western talent because it is Japanese make no sense.

Good read. Essentially solidifies existing concerns about the company and its management.

Reggie talks about the lessons Nintendo learned from GameCube.

First, weve got make sure that the titles in the first six months are strong and can drive sales. Weve also got to make sure the console is attractive visually. And weve got to deliver on the right consumer needs. (Source)

It's funny...with the Wii U...it's like they learned nothing.

What does Oliver Stone have to do with anything and who said anything about Japan's war crimes being excusable?

As for Sony's disagreement with that big shareholder who wants them to split, headbutting between shareholders and corporate management is common (probably not as common as it should be though).

My point was and remains that many Japanese companies (including Nintendo in the past) are willing to work with non-Japanese so your claim that is unwilling to work with Western talent because it is Japanese make no sense.

CarnageHeart

You said it's not unique for some people to have trouble accepting their country's wartime guilt, so I thought you'd appreciate Oliver Stone's excuses for it as well.

As for Sony and Nintendo, their particular problems are precisely the result of the kind of inflexible management that typifies the Japanese management style.  I never said that they were unwilling to work with Western talent because they are Japanese nor did I even imply that.  Following the traditional Japanese style, they want to be in complete control of every aspect of their business without being influenced by outside forces, like influential shareholders (Sony) or American gamers (Nintendo).  Once a course of action is decided upon and set into motion, changing it later is tantamount to admitting that the initial plan was a failure, and admitting failure is worse than death for managers in Japan.  If Sony and Nintendo weren't plagued with management problems, we wouldn't be having this conversation.