Max Payne 3's sales hurting Rockstar

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D3s7rUc71oN

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#1 D3s7rUc71oN
Member since 2004 • 5180 Posts

http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/2012/06/15/max-payne-3s-sales-may-be-hitting-rockstar-where-it-hurts/

According to Michael Pachter,Max Payne 3has sold less than 50% of whatL.A. Noiremoved at this point in the release cycle. But does that mean the pill-popping detective is in trouble? Or that we might not see Max Payne 4?

Perhaps, but it's worth looking at the two games, which had very different production histories.

Game budgets are kept tightly under wraps, but we do know that L.A. Noire is widely considered one of the single most expensive games ever developed:estimates range between $50 and $100 million, and, considering the long development cycle, enormous amount of research to make it period accurate, and sheer complexity of the game, it's probably safer to assume it cost closer to $100 million than $50 million.

Similarly, we don't know Max Payne 3's exact budget, since Rockstar doesn't divulge those figures, butanalysts have estimated it at $105 million. But it also had a shorter, and much less troubled, development cycle, and that estimate doesn't come from Rockstar: it's essentially an educated guess. Max Payne 3 also didn't have Team Bondi's face-capturing technology, or the difficulty of building a massive open world.

There's also the DLC factor to consider: the Rockstar Pass no doubt made the company a decent amount of money on both games.

In the end, it largely comes down to how Rockstar and Take-Two feel about Max's performance: so far, he's estimated to have sold 1.65 million copies. We'll see what his handlers have to say in the weeks ahead.


I finally got to play Max Payne and I'm impressed with the game, perfect difficulty ( feels like last generation games) gritty theme and satisfying combat. I haven't gotten to finish it yet, but seeing the NPD numbers sales are low. I hope word of mouth will help generate more sales because from what I've played so far I would love to see a sequel next generation.

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Ilovegames1992

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#2 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

Max Payne 3 is genuinely one of my favourite games this year. Its so stylish, mixes that old Max Payne feel with new generation elements.

Bit disappointed but not surprised it didn't sell well.

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SouL-Tak3R

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#3 SouL-Tak3R
Member since 2005 • 4024 Posts

Definitely one of my favorite games now. I just hope they patch it soon and get rid of all the hackers. Which are not all that common but they are there from time to time. Also they really need a map pack dlc.

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Jbul

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#4 Jbul
Member since 2007 • 4838 Posts

LA Noire sold a tremendous amount for two reasons, as far as I'm concerned. First, it had a rediculous advertising campaign. I remember not being able to watch Prime-time TV without seeing one of those commercials. Max Payne 3? Meh, not so much.

Second, and much more important reason, is that the public perception of LA Noire to casual gamers was that it was a GTA-ish game set in the 40's. I honestly think that, in and of itself, helped the game sell millions. The actual product was flawed but ambitious, but GTA-style games remain Rockstar's big sellers.

And you're right, Max Payne 3 is a great game and deserves to sell many millions, but even if it did sell extremely well, you wouldn't see a sequel for quite some time I'm sure.

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Jugman720

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#5 Jugman720
Member since 2012 • 25 Posts

LA Noire sold a tremendous amount for two reasons, as far as I'm concerned. First, it had a rediculous advertising campaign. I remember not being able to watch Prime-time TV without seeing one of those commercials. Max Payne 3? Meh, not so much.

Second, and much more important reason, is that the public perception of LA Noire to casual gamers was that it was a GTA-ish game set in the 40's. I honestly think that, in and of itself, helped the game sell millions. The actual product was flawed but ambitious, but GTA-style games remain Rockstar's big sellers.

And you're right, Max Payne 3 is a great game and deserves to sell many millions, but even if it did sell extremely well, you wouldn't see a sequel for quite some time I'm sure.

Jbul
Yet LA noire turned out to be a bit of a disappointment but Max payne 3 turned out to be a fairly good game.
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-Fromage-

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#6 -Fromage-
Member since 2009 • 10572 Posts
Didnt the previous Max Payne game sell below expectations as well? Looks like its consistent at least. But seriously though it is too bad as it is a fun game.
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Sagacious_Tien

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#7 Sagacious_Tien
Member since 2005 • 12562 Posts
I can only hope it does well and Rockstar can continue making them. :)
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deactivated-609eda8a7edd0

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#8 deactivated-609eda8a7edd0
Member since 2012 • 1173 Posts
Am I the only one that was a little underwhelmed by Max Payne 3? I mean it was fun in parts but overall felt to linear and I started to lose interest like half-way through.
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Archangel3371

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#9 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 38926 Posts
That's a shame as it really is an excellent game. Hopefully it'll have some legs and will continue to sell well for awhile yet.
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hrt_rulz01

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#10 hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 21555 Posts

Max Payne 3 is genuinely one of my favourite games this year. Its so stylish, mixes that old Max Payne feel with new generation elements.

Bit disappointed but not surprised it didn't sell well.

Ilovegames1992

Yes it's very disappointing, but like you, I'm not surprised. Maybe R* should've put Max in an army uniform on the cover and maybe people would have bought it. :(

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mikeyMKII

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#11 mikeyMKII
Member since 2009 • 754 Posts

Guess I'm just jaded from all the shooters, but I have no interest in it. I am suprised it's not selling better though.

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brucecambell

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#12 brucecambell
Member since 2011 • 1489 Posts

I actually thought it was selling like Hot Cakes. The COD kiddies are loving MP3.

LA Noire was actually really different, unique & innovative. It offered a open world & let you play as a detective, solving real crimes, looking for clues & interrogating suspects. The game was very long, offered a lot more, was something completely unique & different.

If a generic shooter like MP3 were to sell more than LA Noire that would be the a sad day for gaming. I cant believe people support this crap. Sorry to those who loved MP3, i sure as hell didnt.

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brucecambell

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#13 brucecambell
Member since 2011 • 1489 Posts

Yet LA noire turned out to be a fairly good game but Max payne 3 turned out to be a bit of a disappointment .Jugman720

Fixed.

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DJ_Lae

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#14 DJ_Lae
Member since 2002 • 42748 Posts
I had no interest in a Rockstar Max Payne, to be honest, especially at $60. And I loved the previous games.

LA Noire was actually really different, unique & innovative.

brucecambell
It's a fantastic game. It's also somewhat flawed in its 'game' elements but I can forgive it for trying something new and for its dedication to that time period. My only real gripe is the similarity between lie and doubt during interrogations.
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Kevlar101

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#15 Kevlar101
Member since 2011 • 6316 Posts
Grand Theft Auto 5 sales will make up for it
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Ilovegames1992

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#16 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

I actually thought it was selling like Hot Cakes. The COD kiddies are loving MP3.

LA Noire was actually really different, unique & innovative. It offered a open world & let you play as a detective, solving real crimes, looking for clues & interrogating suspects. The game was very long, offered a lot more, was something completely unique & different.

If a generic shooter like MP3 were to sell more than LA Noire that would be the a sad day for gaming. I cant believe people support this crap. Sorry to those who loved MP3, i sure as hell didnt.

brucecambell

LA Noire was very disappointing. The realistic faces gimmick got boring after 10 minutes, it was quite boring. Wasn't really open world either.

I wouldn't class Max Payne as a generic shooter either.

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CarnageHeart

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#17 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

When a heavily advertised Rockstar shooter with extremely positive reviews and strong word of mouth fails commercially, its safe to declare the market oversaturated.

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Grammaton-Cleric

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#18 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

I actually thought it was selling like Hot Cakes. The COD kiddies are loving MP3.

LA Noire was actually really different, unique & innovative. It offered a open world & let you play as a detective, solving real crimes, looking for clues & interrogating suspects. The game was very long, offered a lot more, was something completely unique & different.

If a generic shooter like MP3 were to sell more than LA Noire that would be the a sad day for gaming. I cant believe people support this crap. Sorry to those who loved MP3, i sure as hell didnt.

brucecambell

You should stick to slandering Conviction because you really are out of your element here.

Firstly, I'm still unsure if you've actually played MP3. The last time we had a discussion on the matter it was apparent you had little in the way of specific criticisms and kept returning to the "generic" mantra.

You were also entirely unable to refute a single point I made regarding the sweeping and progressive nature of Max Payne 3's core game play.

There is literally no TPS on the market with this type of malleability, physics engine or AI, along with the mini-sandbox structure that makes each and every shootout dynamic and unique.

You call MP3 generic but I'm clearly asserting the opposite and calling it perhaps the most innovative shooter of this generation. And unlike you, I've backed this up with a bevy of specific examples and cogent arguments.

The term generic insinuates that there is glut of shooters that offer, fundamentally, the same experience as MP3.

I challenge you to name ONE.

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capaho

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#19 capaho
Member since 2003 • 1253 Posts

L.A. Noire sold well because it was heavily marketed despite its many flaws. It was over-hyped and the marketing blitz worked despite the fact that the game itself was mediocre. Max Payne 3 is a better game in terms of overall action than L.A. Noire, but if it's not selling well it's probably because it's a linear game that becomes repetitive to the point of monotony after a while. L.A. Noire and Max Payne 3 are more like interactive videos than true video games. Rockstar has strayed too far from the format that made it popular.

The fundamental problem for Rockstar is that GTA IV was a tough act to follow. The only game that came after it that provided the same level of satisfaction was Red Dead Redemption. GTA IV set a level for open world games that is difficult to surpass. Neither L.A. Noire nor Max Payne 3 come close to that level of satisfaction or replay value.

It's also worth noting that Rockstar has changed hands several times since GTA IV, so I'm not sure how much of the original company still survives after its corporate assimilations.

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TheFallenDemon

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#20 TheFallenDemon
Member since 2010 • 13933 Posts

[QUOTE="brucecambell"]

I actually thought it was selling like Hot Cakes. The COD kiddies are loving MP3.

LA Noire was actually really different, unique & innovative. It offered a open world & let you play as a detective, solving real crimes, looking for clues & interrogating suspects. The game was very long, offered a lot more, was something completely unique & different.

If a generic shooter like MP3 were to sell more than LA Noire that would be the a sad day for gaming. I cant believe people support this crap. Sorry to those who loved MP3, i sure as hell didnt.

Grammaton-Cleric

You should stick to slandering Conviction because you really are out of your element here.

Firstly, I'm still unsure if you've actually played MP3. The last time we had a discussion on the matter it was apparent you had little in the way of specific criticisms and kept returning to the "generic" mantra.

You were also entirely unable to refute a single point I made regarding the sweeping and progressive nature of Max Payne 3's core game play.

There is literally no TPS on the market with this type of malleability, physics engine or AI, along with the mini-sandbox structure that makes each and every shootout dynamic and unique.

You call MP3 generic but I'm clearly asserting the opposite and calling it perhaps the most innovative shooter of this generation. And unlike you, I've backed this up with a bevy of specific examples and cogent arguments.

The term generic insinuates that there is glut of shooters that offer, fundamentally, the same experience as MP3.

I challenge you to name ONE.


This should be entertaining.
joker_eatin_popcorn_by_capnectoplasm-d39

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GodModeEnabled

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#21 GodModeEnabled
Member since 2005 • 15314 Posts

When a heavily advertised Rockstar shooter with extremely positive reviews and strong word of mouth fails commercially, its safe to declare the market oversaturated.

CarnageHeart
I think this is the money post right here. Max Payne 3 is the best game released this year not named Diablo 3 and the sales are still not to par. This game is excellence on every level, but I do think our market of 3000 shooters a year are going to be this games biggest enemy. Its too godamn bad because the game deserves much more.
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S0lidSnake

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#22 S0lidSnake
Member since 2002 • 29001 Posts

When a heavily advertised Rockstar shooter with extremely positive reviews and strong word of mouth fails commercially, its safe to declare the market oversaturated.

CarnageHeart

Nailed it. This has easily been the most advertised game of the year. I watched more Max Payne 3 ads on Hulu than Obama/Romney ads...it was insane.

That said, I think the game will have decent legs. Let's not forget even L.A Noire sold 500K+ in its second month.

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Grammaton-Cleric

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#23 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

Neither L.A. Noire nor Max Payne 3 come close to that level of satisfaction or replay value.

capaho

Max Payne 3 has an incredibly high replay factor. Not only does the nature of the game play warrant multiple plays but the arcade mode and multiplayer are both excellent additions.

I agree with you on LA Noire however; not much replay value.

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Grammaton-Cleric

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#24 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

This should be entertaining.
joker_eatin_popcorn_by_capnectoplasm-d39

TheFallenDemon

I wouldn't count on it.

He's been given the opportunity before to substantiate and more clearly delineate his position regarding MP3 and has opted not to do so.

I've openly challenged anyone to refute what I've written about the game or to show me another TPS on the market that offers the same advancements but thus far it hasn?t happened.

The biggest criticism you could objectively levy at MP3 would be that it is a pure shooter and uninterested in ancillary components such a platforming and exploration.

On a core level however there is no shooter, including the Gears and Uncharted franchises respectively, that even approach what this game has accomplished. It's a legitimate game-changer.

That isn't merely subjective opinion but rather the objective analysis of technology nobody else is using.

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Ilovegames1992

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#25 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

[QUOTE="TheFallenDemon"]

This should be entertaining.
joker_eatin_popcorn_by_capnectoplasm-d39

Grammaton-Cleric

I wouldn't count on it.

He's been given the opportunity before to substantiate and more clearly delineate his position regarding MP3 and has opted not to do so.

I've openly challenged anyone to refute what I've written about the game or to show me another TPS on the market that offers the same advancements but thus far it hasn?t happened.

The biggest criticism you could objectively levy at MP3 would be that it is a pure shooter and uninterested in ancillary components such a platforming and exploration.

On a core level however there is no shooter, including the Gears and Uncharted franchises respectively, that even approach what this game has accomplished. It's a legitimate game-changer.

That isn't merely subjective opinion but rather the objective analysis of technology nobody else is using.

I love the game and franchise but i disagree there. I doubt it wiill have an impact on the genre.

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Gamefan1986

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#26 Gamefan1986
Member since 2005 • 1325 Posts

Am I the only one that was a little underwhelmed by Max Payne 3? I mean it was fun in parts but overall felt to linear and I started to lose interest like half-way through.OhJayDubya

Felt too linear? It's a third person shooter, it's exactly like all other third person shooters as well as the other games in the series in that you make your way to the end of the level and then you start another one.

Calling a third person shooter linear is like calling coffee hot, it generally goes with the territory.

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Jbul

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#27 Jbul
Member since 2007 • 4838 Posts

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="brucecambell"]

I actually thought it was selling like Hot Cakes. The COD kiddies are loving MP3.

LA Noire was actually really different, unique & innovative. It offered a open world & let you play as a detective, solving real crimes, looking for clues & interrogating suspects. The game was very long, offered a lot more, was something completely unique & different.

If a generic shooter like MP3 were to sell more than LA Noire that would be the a sad day for gaming. I cant believe people support this crap. Sorry to those who loved MP3, i sure as hell didnt.

TheFallenDemon

You should stick to slandering Conviction because you really are out of your element here.

Firstly, I'm still unsure if you've actually played MP3. The last time we had a discussion on the matter it was apparent you had little in the way of specific criticisms and kept returning to the "generic" mantra.

You were also entirely unable to refute a single point I made regarding the sweeping and progressive nature of Max Payne 3's core game play.

There is literally no TPS on the market with this type of malleability, physics engine or AI, along with the mini-sandbox structure that makes each and every shootout dynamic and unique.

You call MP3 generic but I'm clearly asserting the opposite and calling it perhaps the most innovative shooter of this generation. And unlike you, I've backed this up with a bevy of specific examples and cogent arguments.

The term generic insinuates that there is glut of shooters that offer, fundamentally, the same experience as MP3.

I challenge you to name ONE.


This should be entertaining.
joker_eatin_popcorn_by_capnectoplasm-d39

The kid is the worst kind of troll. I say just ignore him and hopefully he'll eventually go away, although I do appreciate Grammaton's ownage of him.

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AwesomePS3gamer

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#28 AwesomePS3gamer
Member since 2012 • 25 Posts
Pachter doesn't know what he is talking about, Max Payne 3 actually sold very well in less than a month with 3 million copy shipped and 1.8 million copy sold which is a great number for a game like max payne in less than a month (considering the first two didn't sell that well)
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MirkoS77

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#29 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 16957 Posts

LA Noire sold a tremendous amount for two reasons, as far as I'm concerned. First, it had a rediculous advertising campaign. I remember not being able to watch Prime-time TV without seeing one of those commercials. Max Payne 3? Meh, not so much.

Jbul

I think a lot don't give enough credit to marketing and advertising in how well a game sells, including the publishers themselves. It's not just about the game, how can it be expected to sell well when there's barely any exposure beforehand? I think I've seen maybe 2 ads for MP3 at release, and none since.

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capaho

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#30 capaho
Member since 2003 • 1253 Posts

Max Payne 3 has an incredibly high replay factor. Not only does the nature of the game play warrant multiple plays but the arcade mode and multiplayer are both excellent additions.

I agree with you on LA Noire however; not much replay value.

Grammaton-Cleric

The shooting action in Max Payne 3 is good, but the lack of replay value for me comes from the linear progression and the repetitiveness. It's basically, long cut scene -> firefight -> long cut scene -> firefight -> long cut scene -> firefight, ad nauseum. There's no exploring, no side missions, nothing to do but walk the narrow path and wait for the next ambush. Getting through it once is tedious enough, forget about replay.

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Mcspanky37

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#31 Mcspanky37
Member since 2010 • 1693 Posts
I've said it once and I'll keep saying it...why are people surprised that a PC franchise isn't selling as well on consoles as a console-based franchise?
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KHAndAnime

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#32 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Max Payne 3 has an incredibly high replay factor. Not only does the nature of the game play warrant multiple plays but the arcade mode and multiplayer are both excellent additions.

I agree with you on LA Noire however; not much replay value.

capaho

The shooting action in Max Payne 3 is good, but the lack of replay value for me comes from the linear progression and the repetitiveness. It's basically, long cut scene -> firefight -> long cut scene -> firefight -> long cut scene -> firefight, ad nauseum. There's no exploring, no side missions, nothing to do but walk the narrow path and wait for the next ambush. Getting through it once is tedious enough, forget about replay.

There's a bit of exploring when it comes to finding the Golden Guns. Gives good incentive to replay the game too.
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brucecambell

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#33 brucecambell
Member since 2011 • 1489 Posts

I challenge you to name ONE.

Grammaton-Cleric

STRANGLEHOLD.

MP3 is a mediocre game that delivers a underwhleming & mediocre experience. MP3 delivers a shooter experience i've done a 100 times already. That's why i had previously compared it to BODYCOUNT.

It's a game that delivers nothing different, or unique, tries to ride off a gimmick ( bullet time ), has no real pacing or variety & comes down to nothing more than clearing out room after room of enemies. Its a very dull experience.

That kind of shooter was wicked back in the day but at this stage that kind of experience is dated & has nothing to offer. Dont bother replying because im not going to argue with you for the next 3 weeks of my life. If you like that experience good for you. I want more from games than a generic shooting gallery.

The kid is the worst kind of troll. I say just ignore him and hopefully he'll eventually go away, although I do appreciate Grammaton's ownage of him.

Jbul

LOL Are you kidding me? You're a dumba**.

Comparing me giving a opinion ( thats what these forums are for ) to trollling is ridiculous. Funny too when Grammatons the worst kind of troll. Annoying, narcistic, stalker who's whole purpose of living is for a "debate". The guy takes casually talking about games very, very seriously.

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Vari3ty

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#34 Vari3ty
Member since 2009 • 11111 Posts

I actually didn't find Max Payne 3 that great. While the shoot-dodge mechanic is admittedly awesome, the rest of the game felt similar to every other TPS to me. Of course I didn't play the previous games in the series so maybe that is why I found the story uninteresting. I just didn't care about the characters, setting, or the story.

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Ilovegames1992

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#35 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Max Payne 3 has an incredibly high replay factor. Not only does the nature of the game play warrant multiple plays but the arcade mode and multiplayer are both excellent additions.

I agree with you on LA Noire however; not much replay value.

capaho

The shooting action in Max Payne 3 is good, but the lack of replay value for me comes from the linear progression and the repetitiveness. It's basically, long cut scene -> firefight -> long cut scene -> firefight -> long cut scene -> firefight, ad nauseum. There's no exploring, no side missions, nothing to do but walk the narrow path and wait for the next ambush. Getting through it once is tedious enough, forget about replay.

What about finding the clues and the golden gun parts?

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Ilovegames1992

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#36 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

I've said it once and I'll keep saying it...why are people surprised that a PC franchise isn't selling as well on consoles as a console-based franchise?Mcspanky37

?

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Grammaton-Cleric

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#37 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

I challenge you to name ONE.

brucecambell

STRANGLEHOLD.

MP3 is a mediocre game that delivers a underwhleming & mediocre experience. MP3 delivers a shooter experience i've done a 100 times already. That's why i had previously compared it to BODYCOUNT.

It's a game that delivers nothing different, or unique, tries to ride off a gimmick ( bullet time ), has no real pacing or variety & comes down to nothing more than clearing out room after room of enemies. Its a very dull experience.

That kind of shooter was wicked back in the day but at this stage that kind of experience is dated & has nothing to offer. Dont bother replying because im not going to argue with you for the next 3 weeks of my life. If you like that experience good for you. I want more from games than a generic shooting gallery.

Stranglehold plays nothing like Max Payne 3 and it certainly features none of the technological advancements found in that game.

Once again I find myself doubting you've actually played MP3 much. (If at all)

The only similarities are that Stranglehold borrowed aspects from the earlier MP games (specifically bullet time and shoot-dodge) but that is where the similarities end.

Max Payne is the only dedicated shooter on the market that uses Euphoria. That alone is a massive innovation. It also contains the best AI of any shooter to date along with gameplay that is entirely malleable to the whims of the players.

Each and every shootout is a small sandbox that is exploitable and entirely responsive to each and every bullet the player discharges. It is the most dynamic shooter out there, period. Again, despite your ridiculous examples of Body Count (which is a FPS regardless) and Stranglehold, MP3 is clearly in a league of its own.

And it's of no great surprise that, assuming you actually played the game, you found it boring. A game like MP3 requires imagination and inventiveness on the part of the player and clearly you prefer to have your hand held by the games you play. For all of your derision of the "Call of Duty kiddies", your tastes run just as casual.

Lastly, your criticisms of the game's pacing and design are, typically, hollow. The complaints you levy about killing a room full of baddies and moving on can be aimed at the Uncharted games or just about any other TPS on the market.

Like I stated previously, you are clearly out of your depth.

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capaho

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#38 capaho
Member since 2003 • 1253 Posts

What about finding the clues and the golden gun parts?

Ilovegames1992

I don't really consider those to be exploring because they don't have any affect on the course of the game or its outcome. It doesn't matter whether or not you find those things as they have no impact on the linear progression of the story.

I should mention, though, that I'm not intending to knock Max Payne 3. It is a good shooting game, so I can see why people would like it. My comments are in relation to the OP's post regarding its sales falling below expectations, which I can relate to based on what I like in a game. Linear, repetitive games don't appeal to me as much as open world games that have multiple paths depending on the choices you make.

The problem for Rockstar, whatever is left of the original company, is that GTA IV and RDR are tough acts to follow. Neither Max Payne 3 nor L.A. Noir, in particular, come close to matching the quality of those games.

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Grammaton-Cleric

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#39 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

LOL Are you kidding me? You're a dumba**.

Comparing me giving a opinion ( thats what these forums are for ) to trollling is ridiculous. Funny too when Grammatons the worst kind of troll. Annoying, narcistic, stalker who's whole purpose of living is for a "debate". The guy takes casually talking about games very, very seriously.

brucecambell

Well, here's your initial quote:

I actually thought it was selling like Hot Cakes. The COD kiddies are loving MP3.

LA Noire was actually really different, unique & innovative. It offered a open world & let you play as a detective, solving real crimes, looking for clues & interrogating suspects. The game was very long, offered a lot more, was something completely unique & different.

If a generic shooter like MP3 were to sell more than LA Noire that would be the a sad day for gaming. I cant believe people support this crap. Sorry to those who loved MP3, i sure as hell didnt.

brucecambell

That's a troll post, pure and simple. Not only did you take a swipe at a game you have some irrational hatred for but you then proceeded to broadly insult those who enjoyed it (COD kiddies, people support this crap).

Objectively, Max Payne 3 isn't crap. Perhaps one day when maturity sets in and you learn to remove the emotional fog from your cognitive processes you will discover that you can respect something without personally liking it.

As to me being a troll, I've been posting here since this place was Videogames.com and I've contributed more thoughtful analysis and discussion than you ever will know. I make no apologies for the discourse and debate I've initiated and engaged in because that is precisely what a forum is supposed to be.

I would suggest you lay off the personal attacks and stick to the arguments, assuming of course you can manage to forge a cogent one as it relates to this topic.

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Grammaton-Cleric

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#40 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Max Payne 3 has an incredibly high replay factor. Not only does the nature of the game play warrant multiple plays but the arcade mode and multiplayer are both excellent additions.

I agree with you on LA Noire however; not much replay value.

capaho

The shooting action in Max Payne 3 is good, but the lack of replay value for me comes from the linear progression and the repetitiveness. It's basically, long cut scene -> firefight -> long cut scene -> firefight -> long cut scene -> firefight, ad nauseum. There's no exploring, no side missions, nothing to do but walk the narrow path and wait for the next ambush. Getting through it once is tedious enough, forget about replay.

I would submit that every game is repetitive, including open world constructs.

What impresses me about MP3 is that each gunfight can literally be played numerous ways and the AI and physics ensure this happens. It is an entirely dynamic system based directly on how you choose to play, making each segment effectively a new experience each time you attempt it.

I personally consider each and every segment a mini-sandbox, allowing for varied tactics, strategies and copious experimentation.

It is a linear game however, just like the previous Max Payne titles. But in this instance I actually think the linearity allows it to be a more focused and compelling experience.

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Grammaton-Cleric

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#41 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

I love the game and franchise but i disagree there. I doubt it wiill have an impact on the genre.

Ilovegames1992

You may be correct but if so that is the fault of the industry.

I rarely play a game that actually makes even the top entries in the genre feel dated but MP3 is that type of game.

If nothing else, I just wish more developers would use Euphoria or something similar to get the same type of results in their offerings.

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Metamania

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#42 Metamania
Member since 2002 • 12034 Posts

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

I challenge you to name ONE.

brucecambell

STRANGLEHOLD.

MP3 is a mediocre game that delivers a underwhleming & mediocre experience. MP3 delivers a shooter experience i've done a 100 times already. That's why i had previously compared it to BODYCOUNT.

It's a game that delivers nothing different, or unique, tries to ride off a gimmick ( bullet time ), has no real pacing or variety & comes down to nothing more than clearing out room after room of enemies. Its a very dull experience.

That kind of shooter was wicked back in the day but at this stage that kind of experience is dated & has nothing to offer. Dont bother replying because im not going to argue with you for the next 3 weeks of my life. If you like that experience good for you. I want more from games than a generic shooting gallery.

The kid is the worst kind of troll. I say just ignore him and hopefully he'll eventually go away, although I do appreciate Grammaton's ownage of him.

Jbul

LOL Are you kidding me? You're a dumba**.

Comparing me giving a opinion ( thats what these forums are for ) to trollling is ridiculous. Funny too when Grammatons the worst kind of troll. Annoying, narcistic, stalker who's whole purpose of living is for a "debate". The guy takes casually talking about games very, very seriously.

Bruce...

I don't need to defend Grammaton at all, but he's not taking his whole talking about games seriously. If an argument is to be made about something and it turns him off, he doesn't use personal attacks to fuel it. I've seen him post for a good long time now and if he wanted to go personal, he would have.

Instead, he has stated himself in a mature, responsive matter. Some people may or may not agree with his opinions, but at least there's a side of respect shown for his talk. As far as I'm concerned, he's intelligent and does have a clue of what he speaks of. If he didn't have anything important to say on the matter, he would have not brought up any of it on his behalf. Instead, he chose to, Bruce, and when he does, he speaks in a better fashion than you have.

To call JBul a dumba** and to call Grammaton names like annoying, narcistic, and stalker is way out of line. If you have argument to present here, whether it's a strong or weak case, then do so. But DO NOT resort to personal attacks around here. It just doesn't win you anybody.

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Grammaton-Cleric

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#43 Grammaton-Cleric
Member since 2002 • 7515 Posts

Bruce...

I don't need to defend Grammaton at all, but he's not taking his whole talking about games seriously. If an argument is to be made about something and it turns him off, he doesn't use personal attacks to fuel it. I've seen him post for a good long time now and if he wanted to go personal, he would have.

Instead, he has stated himself in a mature, responsive matter. Some people may or may not agree with his opinions, but at least there's a side of respect shown for his talk. As far as I'm concerned, he's intelligent and does have a clue of what he speaks of. If he didn't have anything important to say on the matter, he would have not brought up any of it on his behalf. Instead, he chose to, Bruce, and when he does, he speaks in a better fashion than you have.

To call JBul a dumba** and to call Grammaton names like annoying, narcistic, and stalker is way out of line. If you have argument to present here, whether it's a strong or weak case, then do so. But DO NOT resort to personal attacks around here. It just doesn't win you anybody.

Metamania

Firstly, thank you.

You know the respect is mutual.

Bruce has been getting increasingly nasty and frankly he needs to decide what type of contributor he wants to be on this forum given his frequency on the site. This is a place filled with intelligent people having smart discussions but lately it seems we are getting more and more of the adolescent nonsense infused with personal attacks and puerile logic.

I can't even begin to count how many arguments, just in the last few months, have de-evolved into newer forum members attacking my prose, calling me pretentious, etc.

Apparently a grasp of the English language is now seen as a detriment to communication.

People need to attack the arguments and leave the personal crap out of the equation. (And note I'm not entirely innocent of that myself)

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CaptainSofa

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#44 CaptainSofa
Member since 2011 • 163 Posts

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Bruce...

I don't need to defend Grammaton at all, but he's not taking his whole talking about games seriously. If an argument is to be made about something and it turns him off, he doesn't use personal attacks to fuel it. I've seen him post for a good long time now and if he wanted to go personal, he would have.

Instead, he has stated himself in a mature, responsive matter. Some people may or may not agree with his opinions, but at least there's a side of respect shown for his talk. As far as I'm concerned, he's intelligent and does have a clue of what he speaks of. If he didn't have anything important to say on the matter, he would have not brought up any of it on his behalf. Instead, he chose to, Bruce, and when he does, he speaks in a better fashion than you have.

To call JBul a dumba** and to call Grammaton names like annoying, narcistic, and stalker is way out of line. If you have argument to present here, whether it's a strong or weak case, then do so. But DO NOT resort to personal attacks around here. It just doesn't win you anybody.

Grammaton-Cleric

Firstly, thank you.

You know the respect is mutual.

Bruce has been getting increasingly nasty and frankly he needs to decide what type of contributor he wants to be on this forum given his frequency on the site. This is a place filled with intelligent people having smart discussions but lately it seems we are getting more and more of the adolescent nonsense infused with personal attacks and puerile logic.

I can't even begin to count how many arguments, just in the last few months, have de-evolved into newer forum members attacking my prose, calling me pretentious, etc.

Apparently a grasp of the English language is now seen as a detriment to communication.

People need to attack the arguments and leave the personal crap out of the equation. (And note I'm not entirely innocent of that myself)

I think you try to win arguments by trying to sound smart. I think MP3 is a boring generic shooter.
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Jbul

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#45 Jbul
Member since 2007 • 4838 Posts

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

I challenge you to name ONE.

brucecambell

STRANGLEHOLD.

MP3 is a mediocre game that delivers a underwhleming & mediocre experience. MP3 delivers a shooter experience i've done a 100 times already. That's why i had previously compared it to BODYCOUNT.

It's a game that delivers nothing different, or unique, tries to ride off a gimmick ( bullet time ), has no real pacing or variety & comes down to nothing more than clearing out room after room of enemies. Its a very dull experience.

That kind of shooter was wicked back in the day but at this stage that kind of experience is dated & has nothing to offer. Dont bother replying because im not going to argue with you for the next 3 weeks of my life. If you like that experience good for you. I want more from games than a generic shooting gallery.

The kid is the worst kind of troll. I say just ignore him and hopefully he'll eventually go away, although I do appreciate Grammaton's ownage of him.

Jbul

LOL Are you kidding me? You're a dumba**.

Comparing me giving a opinion ( thats what these forums are for ) to trollling is ridiculous. Funny too when Grammatons the worst kind of troll. Annoying, narcistic, stalker who's whole purpose of living is for a "debate". The guy takes casually talking about games very, very seriously.

Your posts go far beyond "sharing an opinion", which I respect from anyone, regardless of whether I agree with them or not, and into troll territory constantly. You consistently pop up in threads and whine and critisize unrelated games just for the sake of disrupting discussions, and I think a great deal of people who post here are at their wits end with your childish antics.

You have the right to disagree with anyone, that's not the point. We can all benefit from different and opposing viewpoints. Blathering and whining about the same thing over and over, refusing to participate in any kind of meaningful discussion, and contributing absolutely nothing anywhere -- those are the reasons why you're not liked here.

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Jbul

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#46 Jbul
Member since 2007 • 4838 Posts

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Bruce...

I don't need to defend Grammaton at all, but he's not taking his whole talking about games seriously. If an argument is to be made about something and it turns him off, he doesn't use personal attacks to fuel it. I've seen him post for a good long time now and if he wanted to go personal, he would have.

Instead, he has stated himself in a mature, responsive matter. Some people may or may not agree with his opinions, but at least there's a side of respect shown for his talk. As far as I'm concerned, he's intelligent and does have a clue of what he speaks of. If he didn't have anything important to say on the matter, he would have not brought up any of it on his behalf. Instead, he chose to, Bruce, and when he does, he speaks in a better fashion than you have.

To call JBul a dumba** and to call Grammaton names like annoying, narcistic, and stalker is way out of line. If you have argument to present here, whether it's a strong or weak case, then do so. But DO NOT resort to personal attacks around here. It just doesn't win you anybody.

CaptainSofa

Firstly, thank you.

You know the respect is mutual.

Bruce has been getting increasingly nasty and frankly he needs to decide what type of contributor he wants to be on this forum given his frequency on the site. This is a place filled with intelligent people having smart discussions but lately it seems we are getting more and more of the adolescent nonsense infused with personal attacks and puerile logic.

I can't even begin to count how many arguments, just in the last few months, have de-evolved into newer forum members attacking my prose, calling me pretentious, etc.

Apparently a grasp of the English language is now seen as a detriment to communication.

People need to attack the arguments and leave the personal crap out of the equation. (And note I'm not entirely innocent of that myself)

I think you try to win arguments by trying to sound smart. I think MP3 is a boring generic shooter.

No, he wins arguments by making articulate, valid points and welcoming like responses.... which he rarely gets.

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S0lidSnake

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#48 S0lidSnake
Member since 2002 • 29001 Posts

[QUOTE="Jbul"]

Your posts go far beyond "sharing an opinion", which I respect from anyone, regardless of whether I agree with them or not, and into troll territory constantly. You consistently pop up in threads and whine and critisize unrelated games just for the sake of disrupting discussions, and I think a great deal of people who post here are at their wits end with your childish antics.

You have the right to disagree with anyone, that's not the point. We can all benefit from different and opposing viewpoints. Blathering and whining about the same thing over and over, refusing to participate in any kind of meaningful discussion, and contributing absolutely nothing anywhere -- those are the reasons why you're not liked here.

brucecambell

Please. The forums are a place where we leave our thoughts on games & gaming in general. Thats exactly what i do. A thread pops up about MP3 & of course after playing the game i must contribute my thoughts, as unpopular as it may be.

Are we only allowed to contribute our thoughts if they're positive? I contribute plenty to those forums & my posts our no different than anybody else's. It would be ridiculous to focus in on only me. Theres a few games i have passionately argued aginst, & a few others i may have leave some unpopular opinions on.

You just have chosen to over dramatize what should essentially be just another opinion in these threads. Ridiculous. I get along with most fine, & contribute much to the forums. My comment may have been a bit nasty but only in defense to calling me "Lame" in a previous thread, along with claiming i was some sort of troll in this thread.

The COD kiddies are loving MP3.

If a generic shooter like MP3 were to sell more than LA Noire that would be the a sad day for gaming. I cant believe people support this crap. Sorry to those who loved MP3, i sure as hell didnt.

_____________________________________________________________

^That right there is trolling. The perfect definition of trolling. It's beautiful really... as a poster who dabbles into trolling every now and then trust me, this is trolling at its finest.

Secondly, forums are not just a place where you 'leave' your comments and thoughts. It's a place of discussion. So if you post an inflammatory comment like the one above, expect to be called out on it. If you just want to leave your thoughts out there then try the comments section or twitter or a blog. Here, you will get an argument or two, and let's be honest, that's pricesely what you wanted when you trolled Max payne so hard. The fact is that you were the one who went all dramatic on us. Sad day for gaming? Really? Crap? I haven't even played MP3 and I can tell it's far from crap.

Point is that you are well within your rights to call Max Payne 3 crap, but we are well within our rights to call you out on ridiculously obvious trolling.

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brucecambell

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#49 brucecambell
Member since 2011 • 1489 Posts

Your posts go far beyond "sharing an opinion", which I respect from anyone, regardless of whether I agree with them or not, and into troll territory constantly. You consistently pop up in threads and whine and critisize unrelated games just for the sake of disrupting discussions, and I think a great deal of people who post here are at their wits end with your childish antics.

You have the right to disagree with anyone, that's not the point. We can all benefit from different and opposing viewpoints. Blathering and whining about the same thing over and over, refusing to participate in any kind of meaningful discussion, and contributing absolutely nothing anywhere -- those are the reasons why you're not liked here.

Jbul

Please. The forums are a place where we leave our thoughts on games & gaming in general. Thats exactly what i do. A thread pops up about MP3 & of course after playing the game i must contribute my thoughts, as unpopular as it may be.

Are we only allowed to contribute our thoughts if they're positive? I contribute plenty to those forums & my posts our no different than anybody else's. It would be ridiculous to focus in on only me. Theres a few games i have passionately argued aginst, & a few others i may have leave some unpopular opinions on.

You just have chosen to over dramatize what should essentially be just another opinion in these threads. Ridiculous. You're not seeing the postive, but instead choosing to focus in on the few negative opinions & now formed some sort of grudge against me. That's cool bud, its not my problem.

I get along with most great, & contribute much to the forums. I know of maybe 5 posters that may or may not like me. 5 out of the entire commmunity. Out of those 5 they have had a grudge against me ever since i had joined & shared my dislike for a particular game.

My previous comment may have been a bit nasty but only in defense to calling me "Lame" in a previous thread, along with claiming i was some sort of troll in this thread. It was more defensive hostility than pure hostility.

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brucecambell

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#50 brucecambell
Member since 2011 • 1489 Posts

Stranglehold plays nothing like Max Payne 3 and it certainly features none of the technological advancements found in that game.

Once again I find myself doubting you've actually played MP3 much. (If at all)

The only similarities are that Stranglehold borrowed aspects from the earlier MP games (specifically bullet time and shoot-dodge) but that is where the similarities end.

Max Payne is the only dedicated shooter on the market that uses Euphoria. That alone is a massive innovation. It also contains the best AI of any shooter to date along with gameplay that is entirely malleable to the whims of the players.

Each and every shootout is a small sandbox that is exploitable and entirely responsive to each and every bullet the player discharges. It is the most dynamic shooter out there, period. Again, despite your ridiculous examples of Body Count (which is a FPS regardless) and Stranglehold, MP3 is clearly in a league of its own.

And it's of no great surprise that, assuming you actually played the game, you found it boring. A game like MP3 requires imagination and inventiveness on the part of the player and clearly you prefer to have your hand held by the games you play. For all of your derision of the "Call of Duty kiddies", your tastes run just as casual.

Lastly, your criticisms of the game's pacing and design are, typically, hollow. The complaints you levy about killing a room full of baddies and moving on can be aimed at the Uncharted games or just about any other TPS on the market.

Like I stated previously, you are clearly out of your depth.

Grammaton-Cleric

Stranglehold & MP3 are identical. If someone were to ask which game this generation is closest to a MP game they would say STRANGLEHOLD.

They both feature the same gimmick ( Bullet time ), both have a cover feature, both a room clearing shooters, they both very much are the same game. Stranglehold even had a feature that slowed down time & let you see the bullets hit your enemy with a up close camera, similar to MP3s mechanic that has is shown at the end of every fight.

You could slide down railings, jump onto moving carts, swing on chandeliers, slide across bars. Stranglehold may have had even more variety than MP3 now that i think of it.

Euphoria is great but has to do with physics & animation, something that makes a game feel more real but doesnt actually any real significant impact on gameplay. You talk up the A.I to be something amazing but in reality arent much better than anything else.

They make plenty of dumb decisions or mistakes, & attempt to rush you even when its a bad idea. As someone who has played many shooters over a lifetime they dont feel any more dynamic than anything else i have played.

I think you want to make something so simple out to be much more complex than it really is. There is no sandbox, & the game requires no imagination, or inventiveness. The level design is simple, there is no vertically to it like Uncharted.

You either in cover shooting at your foes, diving & shooting at foes, or running & shooting at your foes. Dont make it out to be more than it is. There really isnt any room for creativity. Bullet storm required more creativity in its kills, Uncharted has more room to maneuver & kill whether than be with your guns, your hands, horizontal, or vertical.

Finally my complaints cannot be direct at Uncharted as well because Uncharted has variety in its gameplay. Everything froms its platforming, puzzles, chases, fist fights, varied gunplay, & insane set pieces ( which are technical marvels btw ).

It mixes things experiences togethr to become more than a hollow shooting gallery.