I think Doom's level design is overrated

I am not talking about the recent remake/reboot. I am talking about the original Doom and Doom 2. Perhaps some of you are too young to remember them but I have played them fairly often for almost 15 years now.

Anyway, when people talk about modern level design vs old level design they like to show something like this:

https://i.imgur.com/BITmX.jpg

But the thing is, (and this is coming from somebody who has spent 99999x more time playing the old Dooms than most people have) I think Doom's level design is massively overrated.

For one thing, unless you have played the games before you will probably get lost at least once almost every level because you can't find out which switch to press or where the keys are. In fact while playing custom levels this can still happen to me even to this day and it just completely ruins the fun when it happens.

Second, non-linear levels are just overrated in general. Honestly, just how important is a level's layout to the gameplay compared to other things like the gunplay and the graphics? Almost nobody gives a shit in what order you progress through the rooms as long as killing the stuff in them feels fun to do. Perfect example: Half-life. Half-life is almost completely linear and yet it's considered one of the best games ever made.

Third, Doom's level design looks ugly and crude a lot of the time (Doom 2 is even worse in this regard than Doom). Knee-deep in the dead is the best episode because it has the most levels that actually sort of look like something, but most of the time through the Doom games the levels just look crude and random and make almost no sense at all. They don't even look that good in an abstract/artistic sense, they just look BAD. Compared to the level design in Duke 3D which actually looks like real places, the level design in Doom becomes a joke. I know this can be blamed largely on the technical limitations of the time it was made but that doesn't matter to us gamers playing it today.

Thankfully just about every single one of those complaints become meaningless once you start modding the game, but at least if we are only talking about the originals I think Doom's level design doesn't deserve it's praise.

Anyone else feel the same way.

Think it depends on what map your taking about as they are generally done by different designers, and even if they are done by the same designer they have different times attached to them. Doom II's maps aren't as good imo.

Duke Nukem has crap maps as well. It has one of the best opening levels in a FPS IMO (Hollywood Holocaust), but stuff like Flood Zone is just terrible. Vice versa in Doom maps like Perfect Hatred (which was made very fast) is probably one of the best I've played in FPS. The entire thing throws realism aside to be a gauntlet. So the whole cohesive realism argument doesn't really effect my Doom experience.

Artistically as well, with the limited technically they had it has some great atmospheric lighting and even though it has simplistic gifs, when you blow shit to chunks and here there crumbling mown it's still gratifying to this day over games with superior ragdoll technically e.g. Halflife 2

.

That's like complaining that pieces don't fall in place automatically in Tetris.

I really liked, and still like, the level designs on the old Doom games. They reward learning. Noobs will die, while those familiar with the levels will ace them. This is as it should be. Tunnel run shooters are for kids and grandmothers.

Talking of lame level desing, the 'heck' levels in the new Doom are really lame. Modern levels are fine, but the 'heck' sections were huge disappontment.

I have played all the Dooms games once (3x for the new one), and have played the older ones more recently as I am only 16, but I will say that I certainly agree, and that most of the levels in the Originals feel, look, and play awkwardly if not bad, but there are some gems I guess. Now I think that great level design comes from the likes of Destiny 1 (The years 2 & 3 content), Nier:Automata, and Borderlands 2. But that is just my opinion.

Did you say Nier Automata has great level design? Ehhh? Did you actually play the game? I mean it's got very generic and unoriginal level design, even for a jrpg...

This game is about action for me. The level design is good but it’s not why I play it - i enjoy blowing stuff up and Doom delivers that extremely well.

I got into the Doom series about a year or two ago, with all the hype around the new one, and even though the games are old, I find the action a lot more satisfying than most of the modern shooters. I personally like the level designs, and think they're well done, considering the limitations of the technology (they couldn't even put rooms on top of rooms). The great thing about the games being open source is that you can download weapon packs and maps that other people make.

I have been playing Doom for 20+ years, and I STILL find myself getting lost in levels I have played over and over again haha.

DOOM 2 was the greatest game ever made, and I loved the diabolical level design, worked for me. Amazing game.

Sounds like you've become spoiled by modern hand-holding shooters and prefer being led every-step-of-the-way w/ compass & glowing objects/switches etc.

I find myself playing fewer new games than ever before bc I'm sick of being treated like a mindless drone. FPS devs used to reward actual skill and exploration -- now priority one is accessibility, while catering to short attention spans.

Doom levels are notoriously smart. They still stand up. That's like saying Twilight Zone episodes suck now. Shame on youuuu..... ~!!~~!!!

WATCH A VIDEO~!! ha ha

Ghosts incoming!

Lol.