How do you categorize a game into WRPG or JRPG ? (Debate)

While talking about Demon's Souls with my friend here Matastig , I called it a JRPG .. this sparked a debate between us .


Demon's Souls is clearly - in my mind - a JRPG since it was made by From Software [Correction : As rragnaar reminded me .. DS was made by From Software . I made this topic late at night I wrote the publisher Atlus instead] who are Japanese and have developed it in Japan .

Matastig on the other hand finds this ridiculous and thinks that if a RPG doesn't have some of the usual JRPG tropes ( linearity , quirky characters , influences from old JRPGs like FF or DQ ... etc. ) but instead has WRPG tropes ( more open world , actions affecting the world , more freedom ... etc. ) then it should be called a WRPG regardless of where it was made or who made it ( In other words .. Demon's Souls = WRPG )

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I asked ppl in my blog about this and most of them agreed that DS is a JRPG . However , the answer wasn't conclusive so I thought I'd ask you guys/girls here in the forum about it ... What do you think ?

I consider Demon's Soul as WRPG type. My easy way to categorize them and always work for me:

WRPG:

• Real life like character with robotic/bland expression while conversing.
• Tend to be medieval.
• Narration isn't its strong point.
• A lot of dark/muted/depressing colors.
• More serious theme.
• Less melodrama stuff.
• Less cutscenes.

JRPG:

• Animeish hence easy to draw expressive character.
• Fantasy world.
• Tend to have good narration.
• Lost of vibrant and cheerful color.
• Fun like adventure.
• Lots of melodrama stuff.
• Lots of cutscene.

Well it is a JRPG because it is linear to a tee. It does however have open ended customization that isn't known in a lot of JRPGS.

Using the term JRPG or WRPG in any context other than where the game was developed kind of contradicts the terms. If you start breaking down which is which based on gameplay features and mechanics then it can no longer fall into just JRPG or WRPG. A JRPG is made in Japan (or in some cases other Eastern countries I suppose), a WRPG is made in a western country, simple as that. As soon as you try to expand on that you, by logical observation, have to start using other terms of definition.

Using the term JRPG or WRPG in any context other than where the game was developed kind of contradicts the terms. If you start breaking down which is which based on gameplay features and mechanics then it can no longer fall into just JRPG or WRPG. A JRPG is made in Japan (or in some cases other Eastern countries I suppose), a WRPG is made in a western country, simple as that. As soon as you try to expand on that you, by logical observation, have to start using other terms of definition.

keech

I agree. When I think JRPG or WRPG, I always think about where it was made. If you want to categorize RPGs on there style or gameplay elements then you should call them something else. While it is easy to make generalizations and say most RPGs from Japan have this style and most RPGs from the west have this style, the truth is not all games from the same region have the same style or gameplay elements. Also (imo) by calling a game like Demon Souls a WRPG its like your not giving credit to the Japenese developers who made it.

I usually think of the artstyle. In pretty much every jrpg the characters have this "japanese" style about them. For example hairstyles, which reminds you about emo, scene etc... This gelfilled pointy hair and all that... It's seen in like what, almost all jrpgs but wrpgs artstyle tend to be a bit more realistic where your hero does not spend 2 hours every day fixing his hair.

Personally I think I like both approaches.

[QUOTE="keech"]

Using the term JRPG or WRPG in any context other than where the game was developed kind of contradicts the terms. If you start breaking down which is which based on gameplay features and mechanics then it can no longer fall into just JRPG or WRPG. A JRPG is made in Japan (or in some cases other Eastern countries I suppose), a WRPG is made in a western country, simple as that. As soon as you try to expand on that you, by logical observation, have to start using other terms of definition.

evilgamer22

I agree. When I think JRPG or WRPG, I always think about where it was made. If you want to categorize RPGs on there style or gameplay elements then you should call them something else. While it is easy to make generalizations and say most RPGs from Japan have this style and most RPGs from the west have this style, the truth is not all games from the same region have the same style or gameplay elements. Also (imo) by calling a game like Demon Souls a WRPG its like your not giving credit to the Japenese developers who made it.

I don't believe that wRPG and jRPG really pertain to were they are made. The term arrived as subgenres to label RPG's based on their style of gameplay. There was once very noticeble japanese style versus a western style. However, genre styles can mix and blur with every game. I think of the terms as western-style RPG and japanese-style RPG. Not western made and japanese made, but from where the gameplay style derived. It is pretty simple to put most RPG games into one category or the other, but there is no rule that a game can't mix the two styles just like with any other genres

I think the lines between the two genres are starting to become very blurred.

[QUOTE="keech"]

Using the term JRPG or WRPG in any context other than where the game was developed kind of contradicts the terms. If you start breaking down which is which based on gameplay features and mechanics then it can no longer fall into just JRPG or WRPG. A JRPG is made in Japan (or in some cases other Eastern countries I suppose), a WRPG is made in a western country, simple as that. As soon as you try to expand on that you, by logical observation, have to start using other terms of definition.

evilgamer22

I agree. When I think JRPG or WRPG, I always think about where it was made.

Demon's Souls was made by From Software, not Atlus. Anyway... Everything about DS's design differs from JRPGs. It is the same with the King's Field games that came before it. The art direction is modeled after European medieval fantasy and the gameplay is much more hands on and action oriented than the traditional turn based combat in a JRPG.

You could almost mistake King's Field IV for Morrowind:

But you could never make that mistake with Demon's Souls and Final Fantasy:

I think the art direction and gameplay styIe are much more important than the actual country of origin when determining whether a game is a JRPG or a WRPG.

One is made in Japan and the other isn't. I don't think there's much more depth to this subject tbqh.

One is made in Japan and the other isn't. I don't think there's much more depth to this subject tbqh.

QuistisTrepe_

JRPG:

- Main characters are generally noisy teenagers with impossible haistyles and/or underage furries with huge boobs
- Stories always, always revolve about a bunch of kids defeating teh Satan
- Limited environment exploration and player movement
- Mostly turn based combat
- Monumental amount of grinding required to barely beat the game
- Mostly grating voice acting

I can make Italian food, but I'm not from Italy. I guess that is how I see it. rragnaar

Hah! you WISH you were in Italy :P

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

One is made in Japan and the other isn't. I don't think there's much more depth to this subject tbqh.

rragnaar

Point taken.

I break RPG into three groups: quest base, combat base, and action base.

Quest base RPG is about completed quest. It also need skill that player invest in and these skill are not use in combat. The lock picking skill falls under this. This is what a good number of games label as WRPG falls under.

Combat base RPG is a focus on combat. This games need rich enemies and many power the player can use. Most JRPG falls under this.

Action RPG is where the character runs around and attack enemies.

I do not consider multiple pick dialogs and moral picks as part of RPG.

JRPG:

- Main characters are generally noisy teenagers with impossible hai**** and/or underage furries with huge boobs
- Stories always, always revolve about a bunch of kids defeating teh Satan
- Limited environment exploration and player movement
- Mostly turn based combat
- Monumental amount of grinding required to barely beat the game
- Mostly grating voice acting

Black_Knight_00

You could say about WRPG:

- The main character is boring with little reason to be in the story
- The stories is always weak or revolve about a group defeating teh Satan
- The combat is very basic or rip from other game types
- The games can have little exploration or too much
- The require doing some many side mission and running around kill things to get okay
- They use such a limit number of character types

You don't like JRPG fine but does make their weakness seam that is the only part of the game.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

One is made in Japan and the other isn't. I don't think there's much more depth to this subject tbqh.

rragnaar

It's a fair point. But I could also turn it around and say I can go eat Taco Bell. But I wouldn't go as far as calling it mexican food.

i go by country of origin. when people separate them into gameplay characteristics, the defining difference generally comes down to player choice. that just muddles things too much for me when i think of a game like persona 3 or 4. thematically and stylistically, those are very japanese games. yet player choice has a significant role. is the anime game about japanese high school students and japanese lifesty|es from the point of view of japanese developers western? i dont think i could make that jump.

theres the opposite type of example like the previously mentioned demon's souls. id just call that a jrpg with western influences. even then, demon's souls has its own japanese roots that i dont think it truly strays from. there are some smaller things, but the most notable is the cyclical nature of the mythology. the continuous cycle of death and rebirth is something that gives it an eastern perspective despite having a lot of western elements too.

theres probably too much focus on labels anyway, but i think country of origin is effective.

I consider Demon's Soul as WRPG type. My easy way to categorize them and always work for me:

WRPG:

• Real life like character with robotic/bland expression while conversing.
• Tend to be medieval.
• Narration isn't its strong point.
• A lot of dark/muted/depressing colors.
• More serious theme.
• Less melodrama stuff.
• Less cutscenes.

JRPG:

• Animeish hence easy to draw expressive character.
• Fantasy world.
• Tend to have good narration.
• Lost of vibrant and cheerful color.
• Fun like adventure.
• Lots of melodrama stuff.
• Lots of cutscene.

Everiez

It's by country of origin. If it went by game types/ the way the game plays, then a few of the early Ultimas would suddenly fall in the JRPG genre only because the Japanese copied them and stuck to that style of gameplay. So there are JRPG's that offer freedom, choices and non-linear gameplay and they're still JRPG's. I really don't see much western about Ogre Battle.smerlus

With that said, most of my favorite games are Japanese. Just... very few of them are RPGs.

no unbelievable melodrama

There so much more unbelievable melodrama in WRPG than in JRPG.

no unbelievable melodrama

There so much more unbelievable melodrama in WRPG than in JRPG.

wiouds

Are you for real? Care to name drop a few examples?

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

no unbelievable melodrama

There so much more unbelievable melodrama in WRPG than in JRPG.

kaealy

Are you for real? Care to name drop a few examples?

Many of the teammates in Mass Effect 2.
I remember some moments in Fallout 3.
The Witcher has some moments.

no unbelievable melodrama

There so much more unbelievable melodrama in WRPG than in JRPG.

wiouds

One thing that I have notice is the double stander for JRPG and WRPG. A good number will like WRPG get away with things that JRPG get attack and belittle so much for.

One thing that I have notice is the double stander for JRPG and WRPG. A good number will like WRPG get away with things that JRPG get attack and belittle so much for.

wiouds

Also, still waiting to hear back about how Demon's Souls displays any sort of over-the-top animu melodrama, if indeed you were making that kind of implication.

It also seems that only a small handful of JRPGs have any sort of replay value, due to the lack of multiple endings.

I have found that I replay JRPG and a few time over becuase the game play is fun. While WRPG game play boring and only good when they take game play from other games.

I rarely replay a game with multiple ending since it just some clips or a slid after the game is over.

While talking about Demon's Souls with my friend here Matastig , I called it a JRPG .. this sparked a debate between us .


Demon's Souls is clearly - in my mind - a JRPG since it was made by Atlus who are Japanese and have developed it in Japan .

Matastig on the other hand finds this ridiculous and thinks that if a RPG doesn't have some of the usual JRPG tropes ( linearity , quirky characters , influences from old JRPGs like FF or DQ ... etc. ) but instead has WRPG tropes ( more open world , actions affecting the world , more freedom ... etc. ) then it should be called a WRPG regardless of where it was made or who made it ( In other words .. Demon's Souls = WRPG )

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I asked ppl in my blog about this and most of them agreed that DS is a JRPG . However , the answer wasn't conclusive so I thought I'd ask you guys/girls here in the forum about it ... What do you think ?

Just-Adam

It also seems that only a small handful of JRPGs have any sort of replay value, due to the lack of multiple endings.

I have found that I replay JRPG and a few time over becuase the game play is fun. While WRPG game play boring and only good when they take game play from other games.

I rarely replay a game with multiple ending since it just some clips or a slid after the game is over.

wiouds

I love a few JRPGs, most notably Panzer Dragoon Saga and the first two Shadow Hearts games. But they at least add a bit of variety to the combat.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

It also seems that only a small handful of JRPGs have any sort of replay value, due to the lack of multiple endings.

I have found that I replay JRPG and a few time over becuase the game play is fun. While WRPG game play boring and only good when they take game play from other games.

I rarely replay a game with multiple ending since it just some clips or a slid after the game is over.

pills4louis

I love a few JRPGs, most notably Panzer Dragoon Saga and the first two Shadow Hearts games. But they at least add a bit of variety to the combat.

I like the richness of enemies and how you can not use the same tactic to beat every enemies. The one that I like the most is the ones that are not turn base like FF9.

It better that WRPG's grind until you are strong enough to attack enemies until they are dead.

Demon's Souls is a JRPG, this cannot be argued (it's not my opinion). However, it does share more similarities with WRPGs than JRPGs, as far as gameplay goes. It's an interesting comparison, but it's definitely categorized as a JRPG.EccentricWraith

[QUOTE="EccentricWraith"]Demon's Souls is a JRPG, this cannot be argued (it's not my opinion). However, it does share more similarities with WRPGs than JRPGs, as far as gameplay goes. It's an interesting comparison, but it's definitely categorized as a JRPG.rragnaar

Interesting stuff from everyone .. quite a bit of JRPG hate and stereotyping but I can easily ignore that :roll:


So here's my input [ haven't been able to keep up with the topic as I'm amidst my final exams :cry: ] .. Why were the terms JRPG and WRPG created in the first place ? I'm not sure but my guess is that every other genre was almost identical worldwide except for RPGs .. so to distinguish both , they started saying JRPG and WRPG .. JRPG standing for RPGs coming from Japan and WRPGs for ones made in the west ..


By that definition , Demon's Souls has come from Japan and thus it instantly = JRPG .


Also , a response to a point raised here and that is the sty|e . I actually don't think DS has the traditional WRPG tropes . Case in point , Dragon Age Origins supposedly embodies a lot of the WRPG traditional elements . I played that game and couldn't stand it (not my type .. same with fallout ) . So if DS had the same elements I don't think I would've deemed it my GoTY that year . It's very different .

What I think is creating the rift here is the fact that DS is an action RPG .. therein lies the problem .. JRPG are mostly turn-based or tactical or that sort of "SUB-genre" .. so when Japanese make an action RPG , ppl aren't accustomed to seeing that often from them and so they call it Western . But that isn't true . If a WRPG decides to employ turn-based combat that doesn't instantly transform it to a JRPG .

Tactical - Action - Turn-based - Strategy ... those are all sub-genres not genres and should have no impact on the genre .

What about "Lord of the Rings the Third Age"

Giving a game the name JRPG because it was made in Japan is silly at best. We does call other cames JPlatformer and WPlatformer.

What about "Lord of the Rings the Third Age"

Giving a game the name JRPG because it was made in Japan is silly at best. We does call other cames JPlatformer and WPlatformer.

wiouds

If WRPG and JRPG is that different then why do we not give them more meaningful and unbiased names to group the games?

"lord of the rings third age" is called a WRPG but it break every thing that some say a WRPG is made up of.

i consider demon's souls a JRPG, though it is close to the borderline there.

in general:
JRPG: made in Japan, linear story-wise, heavy on reading, one ending, no creating charecters
WRPG: Made in western hemisphere, create own charecter, mutliple endings, more voice-overs, multiple endings, new game+, open world, based on dungeons and dragons

and I also like WRPG alot more (especially in the last few years)

I have become less impress with WRPG these last few years. Their stories are become just simple cut out. The main character does stuck in many and are meaningless. The teammate are become very cliche. The only changes that any WRPG have seen were taken from other games.

I do like WRPG so I can not over look there downsides.

What about "Lord of the Rings the Third Age"

Giving a game the name JRPG because it was made in Japan is silly at best. We does call other cames JPlatformer and WPlatformer.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

What about "Lord of the Rings the Third Age"

Giving a game the name JRPG because it was made in Japan is silly at best. We does call other cames JPlatformer and WPlatformer.

smerlus

u made a good point, jrpg's are traditionally on consoles while wrpg's are made for computers and could be said to be more "hard-core" then jrpgs

If WRPG and JRPG is that different then why do we not give them more meaningful and unbiased names to group the games?

"lord of the rings third age" is called a WRPG but it break every thing that some say a WRPG is made up of.

wiouds

This is a great point, if you aren't going to base what is a WRPG or a JRPG on where they were made, and instead on how they play. Then LOTR: 3rd Age is by definition a JRPG. It plays almost identical to Final Fantasy X. It bares virtually no commonalities with traditional WRPG's. The only thing even remotely western about it is the LOTR namesake.

You can't flip flop between what defines the genre. One can't in one breath say LOTR: 3rd Age is a WRPG because it was made by EA. Then in the next breath say Demon's Souls is also a WRPG because it plays more like one than it does a JRPG.

The main problem with calling things "Japanese Role-Playing Games" is that most so-called JRPG have little to no actual role-playing elements. I find it ridiculous to call a game where you never, ever, ever make any sort of choice whatsoever a "role-playing game".

Final Fantasy is not more of a role-playing game than Call of Duty, so why are you putting it in the same general category as Baldur's Gate?!

The main problem with calling things "Japanese Role-Playing Games" is that most so-called JRPG have little to no actual role-playing elements. I find it ridiculous to call a game where you never, ever, ever make any sort of choice whatsoever a "role-playing game".

Final Fantasy is not more of a role-playing game than Call of Duty, so why are you putting it in the same general category as Baldur's Gate?!

ReddestSkies