Hey Microsoft! You listening? Drop the DRM or you're screwed! Plain and simple!

If you guys are really listening, listen to this!

It's one thing if the entire industry is going in a direction, but it's clearly not now, and this is something you guys are pushing for. It's clear that if these publishers can develop these amazing looking games on PS4, the traditional way, they can survive just fine.

I love your tech.

I love your games.

I would happily pay a premium of $100 to play with that tech.

It's everything I wanted out of next generation gaming. You nailed me on that part and about wanting different experiences and it's clear you can deliver that.

But the price, the Xbox Live fee AND no used games? NOT WORTH IT!

You are not asking for a premium. You are asking for people to give up their liberties! For something that to me is clear will become standard technology anyway in the future! I will let people know that this is going to come later, with or without you, without the need to give up what is rightfully theirs! It might take one more generation, but if I people wait patiently, someone else will do what you guys are trying to do now. Just like online gaming would have eventually become standard anyway without you guys. Maybe not this generation, but the next. I just can't in good conscience support you guys, when someone else gives us the choice of freedom.

Drop the used games bullshit, and we'll talk. You can give us a free market digital distribution system where people can happily own and sell their licenses at will and maintain their ownership. You can do cloud gaming, without the need to ask anyone to check in every 24 hours. I know it's possible because I've played it. Until then, I hope Sony and Nintendo kicks living shit out of you because they clearly don't have the nerve you do to spit in the face of their customers like you are and I will make sure to educate your future customers on this issue and what it is that you guys are trying to do.

It's this FREAKING simple!

You will need early adopters like me for this console to succeed. You need gamers like me to spread the word on why your tech is cool and your games are so different. They don't get it without hardcore gamers like us, explaining it and selling them on it. They won't be there! I will not be in a line waiting for this thing. Buy it yourselves. With these kind of prices and restrictions, you're the only ones who can afford it! Enjoy!

PS: And honestly I don't give a shit if some of the games might get pirated if you go digital so that's not an excuse for me. It's always been a part of the business. You have the power to send the FBI to rain down on a 17 year old kid in Australia. You can protect yourselves just fine from this. It would never be at the point where it would damage your business so much that you have to do this. It's just not a good enough excuse.

Microsoft will spit in your face and kick you in the gut but you would still support them? Are you a F-n idiot?

Microsoft will spit in your face and kick you in the gut but you would still support them? Are you a F-n idiot?

jdc6305

Do you read kid?

I would like to add in all of the years (30) I've been gaming I have never a gaming company as greed and self centered as M$.

Serious reply here, it's too late. They've already gone through a lot of effort to set up this used games system to skim some more money, I think it may simply be too late to undo without delaying the system into next year. I think they'll slowly dismantle it over the course of time though. If they have any damn sense. Sony hit them so hard they may not, though.Randolph

They will not succeed. I will make sure I tell everyone about AGAWI, about Nvidia's GRID, about all the other awesome cloud services that will come anyway from so many different companies without this bullshit! I will let people know voice recognition is not an exclusive Microsoft technology. Neither is your camera. It CAN and WILL eventually be done by others anyway.

They are the type of company that can push this stuff forward, and bring it together, but it will slowly come without them. And in fact, maybe if they didn't bring in online gaming, then there would have been no god damn online gaming fee in the first place. SEGA didn't try that!

Microsoft I will not help you set a bad precedent just to get something a little bit early. That's all you are good for!  And as long as that was your selling point, without it needing an exchange for this kind of blood sucking, life sucking, measures, you would have kept succeeding over and over again. It's just not worth it! People can wait. We've smartened up!

I saw that clip, of sharing games, and laughed my ass off.

I don't think its too late for M$ to change things but they have left a sour taste in the mouths of consumers and it might be hard for them to bring them back. It's an uphill battle for M$ now.

When Sony announced that it supported used games, no online checks, and a hundred dollar less, the crowd EXPLODED with joy and that might have been the fat lady singing!

Hey everyone OnLive is going to upgrade to Nvidia's GRID, GPU-based cloud servers. THEY WON'T REQUIRE 24 hour check ins. You will not need a $500 console to hook up to it. You can buy a PS4 for and STILL use your current laptop to get next-gen cloud gaming! And you will come out $100 cheaper!!! The one you ALREADY own! The one WITHOUT these fuging measures! In 720p/30fps which will only get better with time anyway.

You hear this Microsoft? This is what I'm going to be spreading!

Xbox, go away.

Serious reply here, it's too late. They've already gone through a lot of effort to set up this used games system to skim some more money, I think it may simply be too late to undo without delaying the system into next year. I think they'll slowly dismantle it over the course of time though. If they have any damn sense. Sony hit them so hard they may not, though.Randolph

Even if MS does not inforce their DRM, it will still be there with MS hold the right to change the agree,

I also won't give Gamestop money anymore (even though I admittedly don't much these days anyway), but the whole "Authorized Retailer" BS that they were in on with MS just stinks to high heaven. 

I also won't give Gamestop money anymore (even though I admittedly don't much these days anyway), but the whole "Authorized Retailer" BS that they were in on with MS just stinks to high heaven. 

Shame-usBlackley

Screw GameStop!

[QUOTE="Randolph"]Serious reply here, it's too late. They've already gone through a lot of effort to set up this used games system to skim some more money, I think it may simply be too late to undo without delaying the system into next year. I think they'll slowly dismantle it over the course of time though. If they have any damn sense. Sony hit them so hard they may not, though.PumpkinBoogie

Sure they can. They can drop it all. That's about it though. It's not about face. Who gives a shit about that? Do the right thing and no one will care in the long run.

But I will say that after this I along with many other people would still find a very hard time trusting them. Because all this talk about an industry-wide effort is clearly not true.

We can't fight an entire industry. But 2 against 1? That's too easy!

If you guys are really listening, listen to this!

It's one thing if the entire industry is going in a direction, but it's clearly not now, and this is something you guys are pushing for. It's clear that if these publishers can develop these amazing looking games on PS4, the traditional way, they can survive just fine.

I love your tech.

I love your games.

I would happily pay a premium of $100 to play with that tech.

It's everything I wanted out of next generation gaming. You nailed me on that part and about wanting different experiences and it's clear you can deliver that.

But the price, the Xbox Live fee AND no used games? NOT WORTH IT!

You are not asking for a premium. You are asking for people to give up their liberties! For something that to me is clear will become standard technology anyway in the future! I will let people know that this is going to come later, with or without you, without the need to give up what is rightfully theirs! It might take one more generation, but if I people wait patiently, someone else will do what you guys are trying to do now. Just like online gaming would have eventually become standard anyway without you guys. Maybe not this generation, but the next. I just can't in good conscience support you guys, when someone else gives us the choice of freedom.

Drop the used games bullshit, and we'll talk. You can give us a free market digital distribution system where people can happily own and sell their licenses at will and maintain their ownership. You can do cloud gaming, without the need to ask anyone to check in every 24 hours. I know it's possible because I've played it. Until then, I hope Sony and Nintendo kicks living shit out of you because they clearly don't have the nerve you do to spit in the face of their customers like you are and I will make sure to educate your future customers on this issue and what it is that you guys are trying to do.

It's this FREAKING simple!

 

You will need early adopters like me for this console to succeed. You need gamers like me to spread the word on why your tech is cool and your games are so different. They don't get it without hardcore gamers like us, explaining it and selling them on it. They won't be there! I will not be in a line waiting for this thing. Buy it yourselves. With these kind of prices and restrictions, you're the only ones who can afford it! Enjoy!

PS: And honestly I don't give a shit if some of the games might get pirated if you go digital so that's not an excuse for me. It's always been a part of the business. You have the power to send the FBI to rain down on a 17 year old kid in Australia. You can protect yourselves just fine from this. It would never be at the point where it would damage your business so much that you have to do this. It's just not a good enough excuse.

alexwatchtower

Hmmmm.... well your stance changed fast.Minishdriveby

I don't get tied to a company as much as you guys believe. I've never had a problem ditching before or swapping sides(heck I did it pretty much every single generation except the last 2) and loyalty to a manufacturer never had to do with the manufacturer, but the product they put out that met my wants or needs. I backed the product, didn't care who made it. I drive a Cadillac, my first car was a red Honda prelude, but my favorite damn car was a Kia Sorento. That was the best bang for my buck I ever got!

I bought Sony, I bought Sega, I bought EA, I bought Microsoft. No big deal to me. And I could give up missing on a few games in order to get the better deal.

And that's something Microsoft doesn't understand. In fact, them more than any other, have fewer loyal customers than the other 2. We are used to giving up things. They didn't win the hearts of gamers.

It was never about you Microsoft with most of the customers. Some people still had a bitter taste in their mouth supporting you guys, but your product was undeniably good. You guys got the gamers who mainly swapped consoles and looked for the best value. That's what you didn't understand! The least loyal customer base! We didn't have a **** "relationship"! We had a business deal Microsoft! And now that deal went bad! Your deal freaking stinks! You understand business, don't you? Sorry, it's just business! Nothing personal!

If you guys are really listening, listen to this!

It's one thing if the entire industry is going in a direction, but it's clearly not now, and this is something you guys are pushing for. It's clear that if these publishers can develop these amazing looking games on PS4, the traditional way, they can survive just fine.

I love your tech.

I love your games.

I would happily pay a premium of $100 to play with that tech.

It's everything I wanted out of next generation gaming. You nailed me on that part and about wanting different experiences and it's clear you can deliver that.

But the price, the Xbox Live fee ANDno used games? NOT WORTH IT!

You are not asking for a premium. You are asking for people to give up their liberties! For something that to me is clear will become standard technology anyway in the future!I will let people know that this is going to come later, with or without you, without the need to give up what is rightfully theirs!It might take one more generation, but if I people wait patiently, someone else will do what you guys are trying to do now. Just like online gaming would have eventually become standard anyway without you guys.Maybe not this generation, but the next. I just can't in good conscience support you guys, when someone else gives us the choice of freedom.

Drop the used games bullshit, and we'll talk. You can give us a free market digital distribution system where people can happily own and sell their licenses at will and maintain their ownership. You can do cloud gaming, without the need to ask anyone to check in every 24 hours. I know it's possible because I've played it. Until then, I hope Sony and Nintendo kicks living shit out of you because they clearly don't have the nerve you do to spit in the face of their customers like you are and I will make sure to educate your future customers on this issue and what it is that you guys are trying to do.

It's this FREAKING simple!

You will need early adopters like me for this console to succeed. You need gamers like me to spread the word on why your tech is cool and your games are so different. They don't get it without hardcore gamers like us, explaining it and selling them on it. They won't be there! I will not be in a line waiting for this thing. Buy it yourselves. With these kind of prices and restrictions, you're the only ones who can afford it! Enjoy!

PS: And honestly I don't give a shit if some of the games might get pirated if you go digital so that's not an excuse for me. It's always been a part of the business. You have the power to send the FBI to rain down on a 17 year old kid in Australia. You can protect yourselves just fine from this. It would never be at the point where it would damage your business so much that you have to do this. It's just not a good enough excuse.

alexwatchtower

I don't think they're listening.

"STOP! STOP! HE'S ALREADY DEEAAAD!!"

Good points TC. That trailer is hilarious.

I've already decided to buy a PS4. With a more intense focus on games during their conference and the fact that trading games is allowed. Microsoft doesn't have the same focus towards gamers anymore. ferrari2001

Neither company has that anymore.

That video is one of the dickslaps I've ever seen. MS needs to get rid of their DRM and used game policy. They're going to fail if they don't. Hell Sony doesn't even have to try anymore. They just need to show up.

I think it's a bit too late for that....LJS9502_basic

I don't know about that. And that sounds hopeless which is what Microsoft wanted everyone to feel like. That's what they made me feel like. Like we were hopeless. Like the whole industry was going to do it anwyay. Well, bullshit.

If PS4 starts outselling it 2-1, 3-1 come launch they will re-think it.

If Wii U sales pick up, come launch, they will re-think it.

Once a mass exodus of Xbox fans start canceling those Xbox Live memberships, they will re-think it.

They had to do a pretty big price cut with the original Xbox soon after launch.

Nintendo had to as well with the 3DS.

Sony had to with the Vita and PS3.

But that's when they do it. They don't do it for Twitter begging, or backlash, or hardcore gamers. The only time they do it is when they lose money. This is even easier. It's a freaking software update. That's all. 

You think they are so stubborn on this issue that they are really willing to go from ~80+ million sales to something like 25 million sales and KEEP DRM? To basically lose their entire Xbox business just for DRM? 

They aren't going to change their minds. Simple as that. Gamers really only have one choice next gen. MonoSilver

If it does not sell, they will.

[QUOTE="MonoSilver"]They aren't going to change their minds. Simple as that. Gamers really only have one choice next gen. alexwatchtower

If it does not sell, they will.

I thought Ms had the best conference(games) but I dont get the decisions they've made.Who at MS thought these where ideas that people would just accept and get over.

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

[QUOTE="MonoSilver"]They aren't going to change their minds. Simple as that. Gamers really only have one choice next gen. MonoSilver

If it does not sell, they will.

So if you're running MS, and you're sales and business goes from 80+ million units to say....20...you're going to keep being stubborn and let that happen just to have your way?

They did make some changes with Windows 8, because of the backlash, didn't they?

I don't agree with the Kinect making it a worse console. Why the hell did Kinect bother people on the 360 considering you didn't have to buy it? I didn't buy it. I don't give a damn if people want to buy it and play those types of games. That's like bitching about Guitar Hero existing because it comes with a guitar. What's wrong with giving people an option and something different?

The only problem I had with it is it didn't have any games for me.

[QUOTE="MonoSilver"][QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

If it does not sell, they will.

alexwatchtower

So if you're running MS, and you're sales and business goes from 80+ million units to say....20...you're going to keep being stubborn and let that happen just to have your way?

They did make some changes with Windows 8, because of the backlash, didn't they?

I don't agree with the Kinect making it a worse console. Why the hell did Kinect bother people on the 360 considering you didn't have to buy it? I didn't buy it. I don't give a damn if people want to buy it and play those types of games. That's like bitching about Guitar Hero existing because it comes with a guitar. What's wrong with giving people an option and something different?

The only problem I had with it is it didn't have any games for me.

People's problem with kinect now is it's mandatory. It should not be, no matter what.

And an even bigger problem for MS is that they've placed a tremendous amount of their focus on kinect, instead of on other things that could actually progress the console instead of just adding an expensive gimmick. 

Hilarious video. :lol:

Honestly, I don't have much of a practical problem with their DRM scheme. There is no renting in my country on any platform, I don't have anyone to share Xbox games with (this is Sonyland), and while it's a drag, I can still sell the games with a bit of a workaround.

The biggest issue for me is the price. They're starting with an unrealistically high price and if the 360 is any indication, they won't be agressive about price drops. I'm not paying over 300 Euros for any console, if even that. Never have, never will.

People's problem with kinect now is it's mandatory. It should not be, no matter what.

And an even bigger problem for MS is that they've placed a tremendous amount of their focus on kinect, instead of on other things that could actually progress the console instead of just adding an expensive gimmick. 

People are wrong on this one.

#1. They can't do the entertainment box they want without it. Period.

#2. If you want different experiences, if you want to introduce new technology, if you want to set a standard, and get full support from the developer community for that tech, there is no other way. This has been proven over and over and over again. Accessories don't get supported. Ever. You have Kinect as an example. Two good games and they were not core games even though it sold more than 25+ milllion. Already, just from this show we have seen so many games using Kinect/voice chat and cloud networking that far surpass what was available on 360 and Kinect.

People should have a problem with DRM being mandatory when it's now obvious it's just Microsoft who is pushing for this. This is NOT even remotely close to a freaking fair trade off for that tech and that all in one box. It's just not.

No doubt in my mind, eventually this is something that's going to be standard in videogames. But if Microsoft are the ones bringing it in, they will take away something for it. Just like last time. And that doesn't have to happen. It does not have to be that way.

Remember the Xbox and PS2? Xbox offered the hard drive standard and Xbox Live with a fee as well as voice chatting.  They brought all that together and moved the industry forward. But we gave up free online gaming to get it early. It's not even to get it. It's simply to get it early.

Because last generation the PS3 came with a hard drive standard and online gaming for free!

So it's just a matter of waiting it out. I mean come on guys. We have history to look at that. It's there. It's all there for anyone to look at and learn from. 

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]Hmmmm.... well your stance changed fast.alexwatchtower

I don't get tied to a company as much as you guys believe. I've never had a problem ditching before or swapping sides(heck I did it pretty much every single generation except the last 2) and loyalty to a manufacturer never had to do with the manufacturer, but the product they put out that met my wants or needs. I backed the product, didn't care who made it. I drive a Cadillac, my first car was a red Honda prelude, but my favorite damn car was a Kia Sorento. That was the best bang for my buck I ever got!

I bought Sony, I bought Sega, I bought EA, I bought Microsoft. No big deal to me. And I could give up missing on a few games in order to get the better deal.

And that's something Microsoft doesn't understand. In fact, them more than any other, have fewer loyal customers than the other 2. We are used to giving up things. They didn't win the hearts of gamers.

It was never about you Microsoft with most of the customers. Some people still had a bitter taste in their mouth supporting you guys, but your product was undeniably good. You guys got the gamers who mainly swapped consoles and looked for the best value. That's what you didn't understand! The least loyal customer base! We didn't have a **** "relationship"! We had a business deal Microsoft! And now that deal went bad! Your deal freaking stinks! You understand business, don't you? Sorry, it's just business! Nothing personal!

Some of the reaction here sort of reminds me of the days, 11 years ago in these very forums, when folks would bash MS because the Xbox was to much like a PC or Xbox Live was a gimmick. People are always adverse to change, especially when it seems to come rather quickly.

I can certainly appreciate many gamers being upset about DRM for console games. It does not seem fair and as a comsumer not having the option to trade a game in as a downpayment of sorts towards a new game, kind of sucks for some. In reality you are either impacted by this or you are not. Some gamers trade their games in and others do not.

The writting has been on the wall for sometime, that the industry was heading and is heading in this direction, in regards to DRM. PC gamers were up in arms when this happened and now console gamers are up in arms. At some point, whether it was Microsoft or EA, this was going to happen.

Gamestop is an industry juggernaut, generating over a billion in revenue a year. Most of that comes from the sells of used/trade-in games. And guess what? The developers do not see a penny of that. So with rising developmental cost and loosing millions in additional revenue from used game sells, it almost seems natural that at some point this would happen.

Microsoft is not the only one ok with DRM. Sony has left the door open for third party devs and DRM for the PS4. According to Sony, it is at the discrestion of third party developers to determine whether or not games for the PS4 will have DRM. Sony only gurantee's that their first party titles will not have DRM. So this tells me two things, that even Sony has given 3rd party developers the green light on DRM, as they have left that decision in the hands of the 3rd party and two, that it should come to no surprise if we see DRM from 3rd party developers on both platforms. With rising developmental cost, and piracy it was only a matter time.

Lets fast forward to the very near future here. Cloud gaming and the elmination of discs to play games. At some point, we will be buying games and playing them directly from the cloud. Exactly how do we buy and trade-in used games via the cloud?

I am probably one of the few who see's the days of used games dwindiling. Dont kid yourself, DRM is coming to both consoles this generation.

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]Hmmmm.... well your stance changed fast.Areez7

I don't get tied to a company as much as you guys believe. I've never had a problem ditching before or swapping sides(heck I did it pretty much every single generation except the last 2) and loyalty to a manufacturer never had to do with the manufacturer, but the product they put out that met my wants or needs. I backed the product, didn't care who made it. I drive a Cadillac, my first car was a red Honda prelude, but my favorite damn car was a Kia Sorento. That was the best bang for my buck I ever got!

I bought Sony, I bought Sega, I bought EA, I bought Microsoft. No big deal to me. And I could give up missing on a few games in order to get the better deal.

And that's something Microsoft doesn't understand. In fact, them more than any other, have fewer loyal customers than the other 2. We are used to giving up things. They didn't win the hearts of gamers.

It was never about you Microsoft with most of the customers. Some people still had a bitter taste in their mouth supporting you guys, but your product was undeniably good. You guys got the gamers who mainly swapped consoles and looked for the best value. That's what you didn't understand! The least loyal customer base! We didn't have a **** "relationship"! We had a business deal Microsoft! And now that deal went bad! Your deal freaking stinks! You understand business, don't you? Sorry, it's just business! Nothing personal!

Some of the reaction here sort of reminds me of the days, 11 years ago in these very forums, when folks would bash MS because the Xbox was to much like a PC or Xbox Live was a gimmick. People are always adverse to change, especially when it seems to come rather quickly.

I can certainly appreciate many gamers being upset about DRM for console games. It does not seem fair and as a comsumer not having the option to trade a game in as a downpayment of sorts towards a new game, kind of sucks for some. In reality you are either impacted by this or you are not. Some gamers trade their games in and others do not.

The writting has been on the wall for sometime, that the industry was heading and is heading in this direction, in regards to DRM. PC gamers were up in arms when this happened and now console gamers are up in arms. At some point, whether it was Microsoft or EA, this was going to happen.

Gamestop is an industry juggernaut, generating over a billion in revenue a year. Most of that comes from the sells of used/trade-in games. And guess what? The developers do not see a penny of that. So with rising developmental cost and loosing millions in additional revenue from used game sells, it almost seems natural that at some point this would happen.

Microsoft is not the only one ok with DRM. Sony has left the door open for third party devs and DRM for the PS4. According to Sony, it is at the discrestion of third party developers to determine whether or not games for the PS4 will have DRM. Sony only gurantee's that their first party titles will not have DRM. So this tells me two things, that even Sony has given 3rd party developers the green light on DRM, as they have left that decision in the hands of the 3rd party and two, that it should come to no surprise if we see DRM from 3rd party developers on both platforms. With rising developmental cost, and piracy it was only a matter time.

Lets fast forward to the very near future here. Cloud gaming and the elmination of discs to play games. At some point, we will be buying games and playing them directly from the cloud. Exactly how do we buy and trade-in used games via the cloud?

I am probably one of the few who see's the days of used games dwindiling. Dont kid yourself, DRM is coming to both consoles this generation.

Yeah and you know what? I wasn't one of those people. Been one of the biggest supporter. I fully support their integration. I'm 100% behind the tech. Think it's amazing. I see their vision and I think it's great.

NOT their policies. Now my eyes are fully open to the fact this is a bait and switch. All stick, no carrot. Get this now, give up your freedom. Screw that. I'll wait, I'll still eventually get all that stuff and keep my freedom!

Just because Microsoft isn't the only one with DRM doesn't make it ok. I hate it on the PC too. And even if publishers do it on Sony's console at least for the time being you can choose to buy that individual game or not. If it has high replay value, maybe I would. If it doesn't I can skip it.

You will get cloud gaming in the future. But if you get it from Microsoft you will help set a shitty precedent for it, for things that would have come at no cost. Just like what we did with Xbox Live. We set a shitty precedent for online gaming. Requiring a payment method that we all hoped would one day go away. Instead it just encouraged Sony to adopt the same.

Guess what? Online gaming is still free, as it should be, everywhere else.

It's simple. I only buy 7-8 games a generation. The rest I rent or buy used. I can't afford to buy them all, and even if I could some games I don't believe are worth $60. So even though I love their tech and I love their line-up of games, what is the point if they will limit me to just a handful of games a generation?

Would I buy games like Kinect Rivals? Nope. Would I buy games like Crimson Dragon? Maybe, maybe not.  Need for Speed? Nope. Do I want to play them? Would I rent them? HELL YES! Guess what? I can't. Cause they have no plans for that. Can't afford to with the console model. I just can't. So now those games might as well not even exist as far as I'm concerned.

Microsoft effectively destroyed that and created a cumbersome system for us, a system created by them, publishers and retailers in their little meeting where they will effectively take out all the freedom we had of selling games between each other and give that ALL to retailers like GameStop.

You can have digital distribution where they can check keys for authentication but STILL give ownership to the buyer and let them re-sell it used as they see fit! They just don't WANT to do it.

i totally agree. MS has really done it this time. Get rid of the DRM, used game blockage and not being able to own your games. Give the gamers what they want!The_Last_Ride

They won't do it unless their sales go south. They won't do it if we don't ask for something better. If we don't DEMAND something better. 

Why can't I OWN my own license, authenticate it with a key when I want to play it, then let me sell it to whom I want and when I want without all the freaking bullshit restrictions? Why is it ok for GameStop to take in trade ins and sell used games and not me? Why can't I sell it on Ebay?

I'm sorry, but DRM, online always, etc...it's something that I feel completely turned off by from Microsoft.

I'm not getting an XBox One, no matter how impressive some of the games looked (Titan Fall, Killer Instinct, Ryse).

People's problem with kinect now is it's mandatory. It should not be, no matter what.

And an even bigger problem for MS is that they've placed a tremendous amount of their focus on kinect, instead of on other things that could actually progress the console instead of just adding an expensive gimmick. 

alexwatchtower

People are wrong on this one.

#1. They can't do the entertainment box they want without it. Period.

#2. If you want different experiences, if you want to introduce new technology, if you want to set a standard, and get full support from the developer community for that tech, there is no other way. This has been proven over and over and over again. Accessories don't get supported. Ever. You have Kinect as an example. Two good games and they were not core games even though it sold more than 25+ milllion. Already, just from this show we have seen so many games using Kinect/voice chat and cloud networking that far surpass what was available on 360 and Kinect.

People should have a problem with DRM being mandatory when it's now obvious it's just Microsoft who is pushing for this. This is NOT even remotely close to a freaking fair trade off for that tech and that all in one box. It's just not.

No doubt in my mind, eventually this is something that's going to be standard in videogames. But if Microsoft are the ones bringing it in, they will take away something for it. Just like last time. And that doesn't have to happen. It does not have to be that way.

Remember the Xbox and PS2? Xbox offered the hard drive standard and Xbox Live with a fee as well as voice chatting.  They brought all that together and moved the industry forward. But we gave up free online gaming to get it early. It's not even to get it. It's simply to get it early.

Because last generation the PS3 came with a hard drive standard and online gaming for free!

So it's just a matter of waiting it out. I mean come on guys. We have history to look at that. It's there. It's all there for anyone to look at and learn from. 

#1: I, and most people who buy consoles to play games, don't care about their entertainment box. It's not just MS here, Sony is doing the same thing and it's a bad direction.

#2: What??? Kinect is just a much better and more well funded attempt to do what Nintendo did with the Wii; motion control is a gimmick, period. There is no moving forward from that in any functional way other than going to a place that is like virtual reality, or something very close to it. Thats' not playing a video game anymore, that's virtual reality.

And DRM has existed in many forms for a long time, though you'll get no argument from me that it gets ridiculous at a point. But it's been there, PC gamers have dealt with it for years in frustrating ways. Developers make just as much of a push for DRM as anyone ever will.

What are you saying about the Xbox and the playstations? About free gaming or whatever? The PS2 had a network adaptor (I don't know what it was called) that allowed for online play that was charge-free I believe. It was crude and not very reliable, again if I remember, but it was there for those who wanted to use it. That was not the first console to make an attempt at online features, either. Then MS came along with the XBOX and provided a very organized, streamlined, user friendly online service that was like nothing we'd ever seen and it changed the way people played video games with one another. All of a sudden, 'matchmaking' was the focal point for the majority of the console industry. So what exactly do you mean? Giving up stuff early and whatnot? What kind of online console gaming (non-local) did we give up? MS set that standard entirely on their own terms, they forced exactly 0 people to pay for their service. Sony is smart to finally start doing so, because they are getting better at the online thing too.

I would like to add in all of the years (30) I've been gaming I have never a gaming company as greed and self centered as M$.

jdc6305

People should have a problem with DRM being mandatory when it's now obvious it's just Microsoft who is pushing for this. This is NOT even remotely close to a freaking fair trade off for that tech and that all in one box. It's just not.

alexwatchtower

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

People should have a problem with DRM being mandatory when it's now obvious it's just Microsoft who is pushing for this. This is NOT even remotely close to a freaking fair trade off for that tech and that all in one box. It's just not.

MirkoS77

Is it not obvious? 

What I said is that cloud gaming and DRM have nothing to do with each other. They still don't!

You can play a regular game that uses the cloud if they wanted to do it. There's nothing to prevent them from doing that.

You seem to be under the impression that the only reason they invested in all that money is for DRM. And that's where we differ. For one thing we already know that's not the case because they're going to use the Azure platform. And that wasn't developed for something easy to implement like DRM. That's usually reserved for businesses and it costs a lot of money to access. They developed cloud technology because it's the future. Because they want to compete in that area. Because that's where we are going. Because it opens up so many possibilities. And for another reason they have already demonstrated a bunch of games using both the Kinect and cloud integration.

The only catch is MS is the first once again to bring it to consoles. They want perks on top of it all. They want your blood for it for them being the first to do it. But I believe in time, it will be far more accessible anyway. There's a lot of other companies doing it. It's just going to take some time before someone integrates it into a system like they do.