Future of Bethesda

For me after the paid mods BS with Fallout 4 and Skyrim, and Bethesda releasing Fallout 76 on their already dated engine, makes me concerned for Starfield and Elder Scrolls VI. I hope Bethesda listened to the criticism from Fallout 4 being streamlined and make and RPG this time around.

Bethesda have seriously damaged their reputation this year, just like EA did last year. People are getting fed up and companies are paying the price for it. Elder Scrolls VI shouldn't try to put in micro-transactions or anything, but be an apology to what Bethesda did. Just give me another RPG Bethesda, because that's all I'm asking for.

What do you guys think ?

Waiting to see how Fallout 76 turns out, they might pull a "No Man's Sky".

Fallout 4 wasn't great, but it wasn't bad enough for me to hold it against them. In fact I enjoyed it for the most part, they just seemed to phone it in on that one.

Everything else Bethesda has touched of late, as dev or publisher, has been solid gold. Dishonored, Prey, Wolfenstein, DOOM...and we have Rage 2 coming up and DOOM Eternal.

Bethesda a private company so not sure why they wouldn't delay it. Not the first time bethesda rushed out a game they only gave Obsidian 18 months to make Fallout: New Vegas.

I'm surprised it took this long for people to be outraged at Bethesda.

Bethesda have been making streamlined RPG-lite games with bad engines, bad bugs, and bad microtransactions since Oblivion.

I'd argue that their publishing game has improved since the original Xbox days (they made some very questionable decisions back then), but their development team has been on a downward spiral for a long time.

I heard that Starfield and Elder scrolls six will be using the same old creation engine. So it doesn't appear that they're learning.

And the microtransactions in fallout 76 are almost unbelievable. Like $5 for a door or a blue dress? They kidding?

Yeah that dated engine is an issue. It's just like a car. If you buy a car from 1985 you can only upgrade it so much, but the core system is obselete compared to modern cars. Same with the Creation Engine.

But what I don't understand is why do we only accept this type of stuff in the game industry ? Bethesda is trying as hard as they can to not let anyone refund the game, but let's say in the food industry you bought some chicken. The chicken ended up being spoiled and the store said "Oh sorry you already bought the chicken so we can't give you a refund on it." Or even worse in the car industry and if you bought a car and the engine stopped working in one day, and the company said "Oh sorry you already bought the car, so we can't refund it."

You see what I'm saying ? It seems like only in the gaming industry these things can happen, but in other industries there would be lots of outrage.

Fallout 76 would be a better game if its a single-player based like Fallout 4. By the way Bethesda could recover their reputation if they make good single-player based games again.

Meh, I simply stay away from their sand-box RPGs. Not my cup of tea, however, Dishonored franchise or the new DOOM. Now, they are awesome.

I think Bethesda as a publisher is fine, D00M, Quake, Evil Within, Prey, Dishonored, etc. They've got a nice portfolio. But Bethesda Game Studio after this are going to loose a lot of money, and already have customer respect. BGA needs to at least reevaluate how dated Gamebryo is. And get with the times. They can recover but need to stop being stubborn and arrogant to do so, they can't get away with this a second time.

Pretty much this, despite Bethesda strengths I thought Fallout 3 was pretty garbage myself. Can see the appeal of the dark fantasy theme, and decapitating NPCs with V.A.T.s but honestly Bethesda Studios have been building games out of mud for a longtime know with outdated and poor mechanics, and reusing these bad assets a lot. They're swimming in money and have the funds to make something better, they even own id Tech 6.

I actually thought Oblivion was ok, mind you I grabbed it later with the Shivering Isles, the base game is a glorified green field with the same dungeons. Dark Brotherhood was pretty awesome though, rest is very hit and miss_

The very fact Gamespot roasted D00M IV when it was shown at pre-e3 (not many in the forums cared for it either) and GS made dozens of articles and videos for how amazing FO4 is, makes it very apparent fans of FO are easily fooled into buying almost anything Todd throws them.

Only reason FO76 got burned is because Bethesda finally reached the level even the most faithful of fan couldn't accept. And this is for no one reason, many are outcrying it's pretty bad at almost everything, even the usual things Bethesda is good at_

FO76 is Bethesda Studios- Andromeda, No Man Sky, Resident Evil 6, Duke Nukem Forever, Haze, D00M III . . . Rock bottom folks! And for most this would result in closure of a developer, as reputation is at an all time low. They're lucky this was a budget product and from one of the richest publishers in the industry.

It really wouldn't surprise me if Todd Howard hides for the next few years at anycase.

Honestly there are too many other better options to be bothered with even thinking about Bethesda frankly

Until gamers like myself stop buying the trash from them nothing will change.

@rockstargamer48: I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure that those examples are entirely appropriate. After all, with cars, look at how many times there've been some major problems and then a recall isn't done until months/years after the problem is known and until after people have actually died. And with food, it's illegal to be selling spoiled meat. If a customer comes to you saying that you accidentally slipped them some spoiled food, of course you're going to refund them and hope they don't file a formal complaint about you. Meanwhile, when it comes to Fallout 76, I think it would be a lot harder to make the case that the game is so broken that selling it is illegal. But yeah, I definitely think that the auto industry isn't the best example. Sometimes they'd rather let people die than to make things right for the customers.

Let's hope Bethesda don't pull this again....

@MrGeezer: Well for the automobile industry, if you bought the car, and the car tires fall out before you drive it out of the parking lot, an the car dealer says "Oh you need to wait for a week before we patch the car." You would be pissed right ? The car should work once you buy it, and you think to yourself "Oh this is a corporation with more than 100 people, and they can't deliver their customers a decent car ?" There is something off there, and the outrage would be real.

But then for Fallout's case, there were more than 100 people working on it. Todd even said that all of the Bethesda studios worked on Fallout 76, and it's the most 'ambitious' project they worked on. But prior Fallout games not many people cared about the bugs even though it was made by a big team. In fact in all of games, people didn't care if the game had game-breaking bugs and launch, they would wait for patches. Exactly what was Assassin's Creed Unity.

Here's proof too that Todd said it. (Video skipped to when he said it)

In a strange position as I loved skyrim so Ive given them a free pass. Not anymore after 76 it's the last time. Elder scrolls has to be great.

and be wary of people saying 'ES 6 is great!' about a thousand times before the game is even released.

it will happen.zero doubt. just wait for real reviews from real people after game is released.

please

I agree I've been burnt one too many times by Bethesda.

I didn't care for the Fallout or Elder Scrolls series at all until I bought Fallout 4 last year and I ended up liking it a lot. I didn't care for Fallout 76 as soon as Bethesda revealed it's an online game. It's their grand online experiment for the Fallout series. I didn't care if it bombed because I had no plans to ever buy it. No big loss to me. We'll see if they make the same mistake with the next SP Fallout game. That one I may buy....well after the original release date.

I'm still having fun with Fallout 4 long after I finished the storyline. Makes me look forward to the next SP game in the series.

When you bring Doom 3 alongside those flops you are doing something wrong.

Doom 3 was loved by everyone when it was released.(It had the best graphics of it's time , it's gameplay was nice and it was also the first FPS game with a flashlight that can cast shadows on game objects. It also improved the story of doom a lot)

And it it was also much more successful than all the RE games that came after 2.

There's no need to worry. I mean, sure, they fucked up Fallout 76. That doesn't mean they are done for. Bethesda will just move on.

@dorog1995: D00M III was a mediocre received tech demo of linear hallways and the same code script of an imp spawn. Weapons had the impact of trash. May not be as bad as some of those others but still a downgrade and shouldn't be looked at with praise_

Also has an insulting level of reused assests. The hell part of the game was also some stupid floating platforming and then return to generic space station. You only see more of that with the expansion that tried to fix the roaring complaints id fans had with that failure of a game.

D00M III may not have been an overall bad game, understand they tried making a horror game, but what it is, is a bad D00M game. D00M is better as D00M. And was even noted more people played the classics in the BFG edition than DIII. And that's why D00M (IV) is mechanically closer to the originals and Brutal Mod in overall design.

FP also just doesn't work in narrow level design, that's why D00M and Wolverstein had maps heavily focused on wide spaces.

Doom 3 was loved by everyone when it was released

No, no it wasn't. Launch owner of DIII and saw the backlash back in 2004. You had some people defend it on visuals, but little else. At this time fans expected more from id Software and they got a steaming pile of bad game design.

DIII and Rage are the reason not many had faith in the D00M reboot/ sequel project.

@RSM-HQ: Don't know what do you like about new Doom game anyway, It was far more boring than 3.

The only thing in 4 that was better was combat(But even then combat had this issue that enemies can easily kill you by shooting/attacking at you outside of camera) but in other ways(Level design, story , variety) it was inferior to 3.

Also in Doom 4 for some reason you can't skip cutscenes while in 3 you can.

I don't know why you hated the hell level it was pretty awesome.

As for hallways, by that logic 90 percent of the games are crap because they have lots of hallways after hallways.

And I don't know why some fans just wanted another arena shooter, that genre was already exhausted in early 2000s and no one wanted to make another FPS like that again back then.

And yet you explained no reason why D00M III is good. . Hey, if you don't like D00M IV that's fine, in my view it's still far from a brilliant game. Level design may be 110% better than DIII but still is far from the first two. Also taking out cores and then a horde is tedious I do admit. Also the Halflife 2 style not a cutscene-cutscenes (script locked till NPCs shut up) are one of my most disliked features in modern gaming. A sad thing transferred from D00M III.

I don't know why you hated the hell level it was pretty awesome.

Visually? Sure. D00M III was a stunning game from a visual perceptive. As a FPS it was pretty disappointing and had some of the worst map design. Especially from a developer I recall excelling in that area.

As for hallways, by that logic 90 percent of the games are crap because they have lots of hallways after hallways.

Depends on the mechanics in place, and if you didn't read carefully noted hallways simply doesn't fit First Person Perspective for engaging gameplay. The genre was brought in by developer that understood this and while had hallways used it to connect the more commonly and wider gameplay focused open areas. That's one of the reasons Resident Evil 7 suffers is the change of perspective. As it's built with design similar to a game with a third person perpective.

But while I'm on that note. You would be correct, I've never shown interest in Call of Duty campaigns. I prefer level design to have actual ****ing design. And be built around the gameplay mechanics given in games. Games of endless hallways is bad level design.

If nothing D00M III was my first purchase that taught me to be more subjective and be wiser with my money, don't view games solely on looks. So I at least thank D00M III for that. But that is all I'll give it

Well, all I know is Elder Scrolls 6 will need to be mind blowing enough to surpass Skyrim. :P

No there kind of is. Bethesda released a supbar game which was only a cash-grab trying to use the Fallout name. We have to hold Bethesda accountable for their actions or else they won't learn from Fallout 76. If we let them get away with this game(which we didn't) imagine what type of micro-transactions would be in their future games.

Remember 3 years ago when Bethesda and Steam tried to force paid mods into Fallout 4 before it released ? We let them get away with it, since people still bought the game, and gave positive reviews and look what happened last year. They pulled in paid mods and claimed it to be 'DLC'.

We let EA get away with their petty micro-transactions and look at the mess they made with Battlefront 2 last year. Never once let a company get away with these business practices or else they'll take advantage of their fans and implement these systems into future games. People laughed at the bugs in Fallout 4, and then you look at Fallout 76 and a lot of the bugs from the previous title are in the game.

This is why I hate fanboys. I'm not saying you are one, but don't expect Bethesda to move on to their next game without putting some sort of Fallout 76 features in it.

And the best way to do that is not buy the game. Ever.

Todd Howard himself stated they keep releasing Skyrim because we keep buying it. Complaints will fix very little, answer with your wallets.

@RSM-HQ: Yeah I never bought Fallout 76. I bought Fallout 4 two years ago, and Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 3 in February this year.

They still make good games,and as long as they do i WILL keep buying them. Beth isnt going anywhere.

@rockstargamer48: I sadly bought The Elder Scrolls Online and that was a big mistake on my part. Otherwise FO4 was my last and bought out of pure boredom at the time. Wanting to give the FO franchise another chance (I borrowed FO3 and never played New Vegas)_

Usually I'm more suckered into buying coop games because I play multiplayer experiences far more. But putting my foot down for this one. And plus was never the biggest Fallout fan anyhow, I think the setting is cool and dark humor to my liking, but only so long can they exploit the same resources over and over again.

While will always try and be smarter with my investments. I don't really have faith in majority of todays gaming customers, and what they view as a quality product. They always bark, but rarely bite when it needs to happen. Many still bought Battlefront II, despite being made out of lootboxes, it sold millions. Shadow of War, it sold millions. Tekken 7 is streamlined garbage, sold millions. And even the latest Call of Duty. . No Man Sky, Destiny. . . List goes on_ Deep down do these buyers like being treated like garbage? May do considering I've seen some people defend Mass Effect: Andromeda.

Not trying to state customers are idiots either, many however are being manipulated by marketing campaigns and media sites (funded by these companies) telling them what's worth investing in. Activision and EA would not be the biggest publishers in the industry if that wasn't true.

The last game I actually saw suffer a huge loss because Gamers said "no" and refused to buy despite the marketing push, was Evolve.

Definitely hurt their own reputation and that might impact them some... but once TES VI comes out I don't think a lot of people will remember or care a whole lot anymore. That game will attract their biggest audience and I'm sure it will turn out to an awesome game.

Remember radiant AI ?

I'm sure people will be ready to bend over again when Starfield or the new TES comes out though.

Yes... because if we (as gamers) send a message to developers that they can get away with making lazy, mediocre cash-grabs and still make big profits then where is their incentive to make anything decent?

@thereal25: I don't follow your unique form of sarcasm.

Your words have little say in what a developer/ publisher thinks if it's selling millions anyway. Best way to make Bethesda Studios learn from Fallout 76 is to not buy the game. It's very simple.

If you bought FO76, BattleFront II, or even Black Ops 4. You have only yourself to blame, sure you can complain about the product but in the end you've already supported them and they have your money. Your wallet is the only real language these bigger publishers understand.

1.That hell level was pretty awesome because it was one of the most memorable levels of the game.(And it was a level that you had to get back all the weapons that you lost)

2.if you are bored that's your problem for playing in a boring way.(You could go run and gun instead of using camping tactic)

3.Doom 3's level design is far better than Doom 4. In doom 4 level design is just kill the enemies in the area,go to the next area and repeat. Doom 3 had far more variety(At first you don't have to fight enemies, there are mars sections where you have to look out for your oxygen tank , you have a section were you have to cover a npc which is carrying a lantern for you, near the end of the game you have an artifact which helps you fighting monsters and you have to read logs and listen audio logs to open some lock doors.)

4.Doom 3 had one of the most greatest atmosphere that has ever been in games. The game always keep you on toes due to this that enemies can easily surprise attack you.

They used their mulligan. They are on an even level playing field for criticism/praise as everyone now.

Ok, losing all your weapons is a neat pacing choice but has been done better in many much better games (SotN, MGS2, GoW 2/3, etc). Only reason the Hell level is cool is because it's the only part of the entire game you're not in the same bland hallway of space station or outside ruins.

2.if you are bored that's your problem for playing in a boring way.(You could go run and gun instead of using camping tactic)

Who stated I did any of that? Difference is other D00M games give you options on how to play. That's what good games do, telling me I played the game wrong without even knowing how I played it just tells me it's overly scripted trash.

3.Doom 3's level design is far better than Doom 4. In doom 4 level design is just kill the enemies in the area,go to the next area and repeat. Doom 3 had far more variety

You had to backtrack all the time in D00M IV, did you get bored at the beginning and didn't finish the game or something? You seem so full of it I'm just going to post this for context. Nostalgia is clearly blinding you from reality-

You can make whatever outrageous claims you want. You can even like D00M III for whatever reason. But don't for a second think I'm believing the trash fed my way, D00M III has atrocious level design. And the above shows it.

4.Doom 3 had one of the most greatest atmosphere that has ever been in games. The game always keep you on toes due to this that enemies can easily surprise attack you.

Not really because it's always the exact same spawn "surprise" after two hours of play I'm pretty sure everyone can tell the exact spot in a new area a imp will teleport. It's so oblivious it's insulting. And sure, back to graphics. Never argued it was a pretty game. But that's shallow, and speaking on myself I need more than a pretty tech demo_

You like it because it's a nice setting. Cool. But you're not fooling me with it's terrible gameplay and atrocious level design. It's heavily considered the worst D00M game, and was on its release year and even now in 2018. It's the Resident Evil 6 of D00M. That as much is apparent.

@RSM-HQ: Doom 4's exploration was boring because you had to just use the map than memorizing the level yourself.(Which due to this that I played in the nightmare difficulty, I had to get every upgrades that I could find)

And you just showed some level map of Doom 3 but never talked about the variety of the things that you do in each level.(Listening to voice files, finding door passwords , interacting with survivals , exploring mars atmosphere with a limited O2 tank etc)

You could do that with the maps in the first two D00M games as well. Are you calling all D00M games "boring" minus the Black Sheep of the franchise?

Hey it's your opinion, but my opinion thinks heavily against it. This mini-discussion I think needs to come to a 'agree to disagree' form end. You like D00M III, and think it's great. And stated your reasons. I've given heavy context for not only why I dislike it, but also why many view it how it is.

And you just showed some level map of Doom 3 but never talked about the variety of the things that you do in each level.(Listening to voice files, finding door passwords , interacting with survivals , exploring mars atmosphere with a limited O2 tank etc)

You can listen to voice files in Fallout 76 as well and access passwords, along with survival elements. Just throwing that in here considering the thread is about that game to begin with. So if you like voice files and passwords? perhaps look into FO76 at somepoint.

Again I feel this subject is at its end, you can follow up if you like. But personally moving on.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I just meant to say that if a game like f76 was successful it would set a dangerous precedent. [The question was rhetorical]

Bethesda and Square-Enix are in the race to replace Electronic Arts as "the most hated video game company of all time". Maybe I should make a similar thread on SE someday in the not-so distant future.

@thereal25: As I mentioned to RockGamer I have a strong feeling FO76 is going to be successful anyway. Much like Battlefront II and The Elder Scrolls Online. Which would be a shame, I hope Gamers boycott this game so Bethesda learn something for future projects.

Time will tell if people are putting their money, where their mouth is.

Because they certainly didn't for Call of Duty or Destiny.

Not really fair. Some of us really want modern RPGs and there's simply no other company outside of CD Projekt making them right now. I'm not playing isometrics. I was gaming in the late 90s and I really don't want to return to it. I loved Torment for its day, but I want a fully explorable world that takes advantage of today's tech for both its visuals and its gameplay and you just can't get that many places.

So sure, we probably will buy it, but not because we are ignorant to or accepting of its faults, but because there is nothing else like it and we don't want another run-of-mill military shooter, lifeless MMO, or formulaic open world game.

@Ish_basic: Well at least Ubisoft is moving towards RPG category with each Assassin's Creed.

Have you ever considered looking into Divinity: Original Sin II?

food for thought

@RSM-HQ: He obviously wants the newshit. But he said no one else is doing these types of games outside CD Projekt and that's untrue. For instance, I'd take my chance with a game like KC: Deliverance or Elex over something from Bethedsduh any day.

And that's just right in this current time frame. By the time Starfield comes out, the gap between these other devs and Beth will be even bigger and they'll even look worse.

@bussinrounds said:

@RSM-HQ: He obviously wants the newshit. But he said no one else is doing these types of games outside CD Projekt and that's untrue. For instance, I'd take my chance with a game like KC: Deliverance or Elex over something from Bethedsduh any day.

And that's just right in this current time frame. By the time Starfield comes out, the gap between these other devs and Beth will be even bigger and they'll even look worse.

Come on, we all know Starfield won't release in our lifetime 〜(꒪꒳꒪)〜

Well yeah, time will tell. But even if they fix most of the bugs/issues and even put in some new content, it's still hard to imagine it being any good.

@thereal25: I agree 100%.

@thereal25:Yeah, for example in EA's case they'll probably have to release a pretty decent game. I'm just worried EA will shut down BioWare if Anthem fails to meet sale expectations next year, but with EA's stock going down they might try to make an effort at some point.