Do we really need a PS4?

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CarnageHeart

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#51 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]You'd have the low end and high end. Sony and Microsoft are middle-of-the-road tech that does not much more than copy Nintendo. There systems don't sell as much as Nintendo's systems, and their platforms have basically become rehash makers for EA and Activision. Outside of a few random exclusives they really don't offer much more that can't be found better elsewhere.

The next Sony and Microsoft consoles now seem nothing but a distant and half real rumor and if they ever do come out they'll either try to be as powerful as possible to try to keep up with the PC and be too expensive to sell well, or come out with weaker systems to try to appeal to casuals and make money in the market. They've already shown that they can't keep up with Nintendo in that department, and all they do is copy them and see fleeting success.

With only Nintendo and gaming PCs in the market you'd have developers who could be happy and make high-end software that caters only to one platform, without having to dumb it down to fit on pseudo-pcs. You'd also have Nintendo who does their own thing and makes hardware and software to fit their games.

El_Zo1212o

You're really let the fact that Nintendo won a single console generation (for the first time since Sony entered the market) go to your head. Your claims are especially curious given that the Wii has been outsold in various market by the X360 and the PS3 for the past year and a half or so. The Wii U looks to be following in the footsteps of the Wii, possibly minus the casual support (which given that it constituted 80% of Wii sales, is a big deal).

Contrary to your claim, Nintendo can and has misread the casual market before. Nintendo's Wiimote+ (and Sony's Move) revealed a misunderstanding of the casual market (both were made with the belief that casuals wanted more precision) but MS's Kinect read them correctly (it assumed they cared nothing about accuracy and wanted fewer buttons). Its not clear that the Wii U's tablet/controller mix (the most complicated controller yet release, one that goes against the design philosophy of the Wii) will capture the imaginatio of casuals.

Last but not least, due to the monomaniacal focus of many of the minority of the Wii's core gamers (most Wii owners are casuals) on Mario and Zelda, the market for games outside those franchises is miniscule. That coupled with the last gen hardware and simplified controller is why 3rd party developers with any amount of talent have either avoided or quickly abandoned the Wii and why Nintendo has offered up fewer new core franchises than ever before despite the fact that the Wii is their most successful console ever.

If third parties had no alternative but to deal with a publisher as actively hostile to third parties as Nintendo (who else openly talks smacks about indie developers, the sorts of people who make games like Journey, Minecraft and The Walking Dead?) then the console industry would die.

People don't seem to get this part- Wii was a casual console. The whole point was to get the one-off demographic "casual gamer." It was a one-off because the casual gamer has no interest in upgrading to the bigger better thing. The Move and the Kinect failed in comparison because of that fact. The core gaming populace is now getting their turn with the Wii U(and I still think it was a big mistake associating the two consoles with the name Wii since their target audiences are so widely separated). Have you seen the Wii U pro controller? It's an Xbox 360 controller with symmetrical sticks and a solid D Pad. Wii U is really the antithesis of the Wii- targeting the core gamer and tossing scraps to the casual. When you reference the 80% casual userbase of the Wii as a point of worry for the Wii U, you completely ignore the fact that the Wii had very, VERY little to recommend itself to the core gamer. The only non Nintendo core games I can think of for the Wii were Red Steel 2 and Madworld, and by the time they rolled around, core gamers the world over had already written off the Wii as a casual-focused gimmick box. Wii U, on the other hand, is announcing games like Batman: Arkham City, Assassin's Creed 3, Aliens: Colonial Marines, and more. The Wii U is the opposite of the Wii in terms of the target demographic and the family friendly focus. Maybe the U stands for "U-turn"?

Kinect is a creative failure, but so was the Wiimote and that doesn't seem to have stopped either from capturing the imagination of casuals. The Kinect's sales were 18 million eight months ago, making it far and away the most commercially successful peripheral ever released despite its high price.

In terms of core games, the Wii followed in the footsteps of the GC (after the commercial disappointment of Pikmin and Eternal Darkness, Nintendo pretty much gave up on original games). There was lots of Mario, a little Zelda, the odd Metroid game, one third party that sought to iceskate uphill (last gen Capcom, this gen Sega).

Wii U seems to be aimed at the Wii's core gamers. PS3/X360 unmoved by the dozens of Marios and the handful of Zeldas and Metroids on the Wii aren't going to be excited about such franchises coming to the Wii U, nor are they going to care about the Wii U getting some of the same games they enjoy (or enjoyed in the case of Arkham City) on their current hardware.

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mjf249

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#52 mjf249
Member since 2004 • 3000 Posts

Just make some great games, and I will be pleased. To me this generation has been rehases, same ole' same ole'. New COD game... too much focus on multiplayer. For a gamer myself, I care more about how the gameplay, and story are. Heck even last generation, they had some great releases.

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thedarklinglord

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#53 thedarklinglord
Member since 2003 • 1106 Posts
Playstation, XBox, whatever. I'm not in any hurry to purchase a new system unless it delivers 3-second or less load times and zero drop in frame rates. Even then, it's mostly dependent on developers to optimize their games to provide that level of polish and smoothness. A poorly coded game is still going to play like sh*t on even the most powerful computer. And for every game that pushes the limit of the current consoles while still looking, playing, and running beautifully, there are at least a dozen who don't attempt nearly half as much but are so sloppily put together that they stumble and stutter and play like crap. And that's not the hardware's fault. So, I'm going to say, no, we don't need the next generation just yet, since there are only a handful of developers/publishers who'd actually know how, care enough, and be willing to foot the bill to take advantage of more powerful systems and give us that higher quality.
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wizdom

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#54 wizdom
Member since 2003 • 10111 Posts

More powerful hardware = better/new gameplay.

gameofthering
I agree, eventually you have to move forward with technology, I personally feel like we should have been in next generation already, but thats just my point of view.
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Venom_Raptor

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#55 Venom_Raptor
Member since 2010 • 6959 Posts

Extremely realistic graphics are exactly what I want in games. Of course, better gameplay is a must, but graphics/physics still contribute immensely to the experience, so I definitely know we need a PS4.

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Black_Knight_00

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#56 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 77 Posts
Kinect is a creative failure, but so was the WiimoteCarnageHeart
On the contrary: they are extremely good conceptually but have both been a technological failure: Kinect doesn't do anything it's advertised to do and the wiimote only recently started doing something decent (Skyward Sword) and even that needed a redesign and an add-on.
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BuryMe

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#57 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts

Hardware has to grow and improve over time. Though I would say tha tthe PS3 and 360 still have a goo run left in them.

And at this point, I'd really like sony to pick a new same for their system, instead of just increasing the number at the end.

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Ricardomz

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#58 Ricardomz
Member since 2012 • 2715 Posts

Yes we do.

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ZombieKiller7

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#59 ZombieKiller7
Member since 2011 • 6463 Posts

Stupid question.

PS3 is weak, can't even handle Skyrim DLC.

How you gonna run modern games on split 512MB RAM? Not to mention ancient GPU.

Why is it that in the smartphone and tablet market, you can get the state-of-the-art, superAMOL hi-rez, quad core etc.

But in the console market all you have is ancient pieces of schit with GPU from 2003 running CrapOS, and either exploit customers with "subscription for online gaming" or a system that drags everything down to 17 frames.

Where is the iPhone 5 equivalent of consoles?

You give us crap and say "oh sales are slow." Of course they're slow, nobody wants to buy that schit.

You should be ashamed to put out games in 800x578 in 2012.

It's not about being "graphics ho" it's about most of your customers are tech saavy, you are giving them garbage.

PS3 did not fail because it was $600.

PS3 failed because it was $600 and did not have tech worthy of $600.

Even at $199 PS3 is fail piece of schit (talking purely hardware technology, not games or fan-based arguments.)

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D3s7rUc71oN

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#60 D3s7rUc71oN
Member since 2004 • 5180 Posts

PS3 failed because it was $600 and did not have tech worthy of $600.

ZombieKiller7

PS3 at launch cost to produce around $800 due to the Blu Ray drive at the time, built in Wi FI , 4 USB ports, etc .

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ZombieKiller7

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#61 ZombieKiller7
Member since 2011 • 6463 Posts

[QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"]

PS3 failed because it was $600 and did not have tech worthy of $600.

D3s7rUc71oN

PS3 at launch cost to produce around $800 due to the Blu Ray drive at the time, built in Wi FI , 4 USB ports, etc .

Well yeah, basically Blu-Ray drove the price of the unit up, gamers don't need Blu-Ray, especially if it's gonna jack up the price by $300-$400, I'd much rather have $300-$400 worth of GAME hardware in there.

The benefit of Blu-Ray is primarily for developers and producers, it's harder to copy and pirate since not everybody has a Blu-Ray burner.

They passed this "copy protection" off as a benefit to consumers and wanted THEM to pay for it, and consumers saw right thru the scam.

Consumers said "this isn't benefit for me, it's benefit for SONY."

Of course having alot of storage space is nice, but now you have 10-15 minute installs, and you can do the same thing with multiple DVD's with better results in every way.

Bottom line Sony tried to trick the consumer into paying for a copy-protection scheme, and the consumer saw thru it.

MS tried to trick the consumer and it worked.

360 cost $600 too, but you pay in installments (for "service" that isn't really a service.)

Pretty much the entire console business at this point is a scam. They're scamming people into paying exorbatant sums for crappy hardware with various gimmicks like Xbox Live, Blu-Ray, Move, Kinect, Tablet controller, etc.

If you like some of this stuff, I can't blame you, because I like some of it too.

But let's just call a spade a spade for a minute.

The only REAL value in the video game business is games on PC, and that's also full of little tricks and scams like MMORPG's, Digital Distribution, Facebook games where they force you to add 500 friends (so they can market to them) etc.

Bottom line as gamers we have to do our research.

The gaming lifestyle gets very expensive if you don't.

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Rattlesnake_8

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#62 Rattlesnake_8
Member since 2004 • 18452 Posts
[QUOTE="gameofthering"]

More powerful hardware = better/new gameplay.

Jacanuk
This is a clear misconception of facts. More powerful hardware doesn't equal better or new gameplay.

Sometimes it does.. without better hardware a game like Skyrim wouldn't have been possible. Skyrim is far better than the original Elder Scrolls game on PC. Try playing it now, graining pixilated graphics (I'm not talking about Morrowind, there were Elder Scrolls games before that one.. just added that because for some reason a lot of people think Morrowind was the first ES game).
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Bigboi500

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#63 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"][QUOTE="gameofthering"]

More powerful hardware = better/new gameplay.

Rattlesnake_8

This is a clear misconception of facts. More powerful hardware doesn't equal better or new gameplay.

Sometimes it does.. without better hardware a game like Skyrim wouldn't have been possible. Skyrim is far better than the original Elder Scrolls game on PC. Try playing it now, graining pixilated graphics (I'm not talking about Morrowind, there were Elder Scrolls games before that one.. just added that because for some reason a lot of people think Morrowind was the first ES game).

Better hardware made the game look better, but it still has the same boring mechanics as the other games in the series, and dungeons that looked almost all the same. Maybe better memory would allow for more variation in those regards though.

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CarnageHeart

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#64 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

Stupid question.

PS3 is weak, can't even handle Skyrim DLC.

How you gonna run modern games on split 512MB RAM? Not to mention ancient GPU.

Why is it that in the smartphone and tablet market, you can get the state-of-the-art, superAMOL hi-rez, quad core etc.

But in the console market all you have is ancient pieces of schit with GPU from 2003 running CrapOS, and either exploit customers with "subscription for online gaming" or a system that drags everything down to 17 frames.

Where is the iPhone 5 equivalent of consoles?

You give us crap and say "oh sales are slow." Of course they're slow, nobody wants to buy that schit.

You should be ashamed to put out games in 800x578 in 2012.

It's not about being "graphics ho" it's about most of your customers are tech saavy, you are giving them garbage.

PS3 did not fail because it was $600.

PS3 failed because it was $600 and did not have tech worthy of $600.

Even at $199 PS3 is fail piece of schit (talking purely hardware technology, not games or fan-based arguments.)

ZombieKiller7

That's a strange metric to use. Bethesda has always been a sloppy coder, even back when they were PC exclusive. While quick and dirty (the only way they know how to code) works okay for PC to X360 ports, it doesn't work well for PC to PS3 ports. That being said, I tip my hat to them for choosing not to ship broken code rather than repeat the fiasco that was the shipping of Skyrim (they withheld the PS3 game from reviewers and later admitted they knew it didn't work when they shipped it).

Also, there is no sign consumers give a crap about technology. They care about how games run and play, but only on internet forums will you hear people whine about CoD being sub-HD (the overwhelming majority of complaints about CoD are related to game design/gameplay). The Xbox and GC would have buried the PS2 if gamers cared about spec sheets but not games.

Also, for PC guys I'm sure $600 is a bargain, but in console terms that was insane. In prior generations Sony found a price 100,000,000+ consumers were willing to pay but this generation they doubled it. Its also worth bearing in mind that at the time the PS3 launched the X360 had much better support (it was two years before the average third party port on the PS3 became competent) and Gears, which was the most visually impressive console game out there.

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IndianaPwns39

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#65 IndianaPwns39
Member since 2008 • 5037 Posts

The discussions going on in this thread have made me picture an 8-bit Just Cause 2.

Yes, we need new consoles. As technology advances, games get bigger and offer more to us.