Boss battles in modern western RPGs

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nnecron

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#1 nnecron
Member since 2010 • 25 Posts

When people talk about modern RPGs, they either mention about games from Bethesda or BIOWARE, and neither of developpers' RPGs have satisfied me in terms of boss fights. DA:O is satisfactory for this matter, and it has a few memorable major enemy encounters so this game is an exception. I haven't played every single RPGs from these companies, but I doubt rest of them are any better (I heard that . Here is the list of Bethesda and BIOWARE RPGs I played:

Bethesda-Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3

BIOWARE-Mass Effect 2,Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2 (I can't say much about DA2 since I was never compelled to finish it)

I am going to ramble a bit here. This is aggravating to mention, because the game I'm about to mention is the best RPG I've ever played. The name of the game is The Witcher 2. The game has involving storyline and inspiring role playing scenarios unlike any other RPGs.The only contender I can imagine is Planescape Torment, and I'm not sure which one is better. But here is the thing. While some boss fights like the Kingslayer and few major fights with mages are interesting, all of giant bosses need to be spiced up. Their AIs are basically following attack patterns. While this kind of AI format is fine, if the patterns don't look and feel interesting, they all become bland. In case of TW2 giant bosses, they fit into the bland side. They are no better than giant bosses from any of the games above. Kayran is even worse than any of them. But strangely, I don't hate any of them. Probably because of their background and how they are implemented into the scenario. To rap this up, I'm basically saying that the boss fights are more about contextual quality and less about substantial combat.

I talked about The Witcher 2's bosses because similar things are going on with the other RPGs. For instance, Oblivion is vividly formulaic in the way I described. All of it's bosses are clones of NPCs and regular monsters with stat boost. None of them have special moves or unique look on them. To make the matter worse, they aren't even challenging. If the devs have made them a little overpowered, they could've been fun to deal with. Ramping up the difficulty level isn't helpful since it increases their HP and attack strength, which makes the enemies tedious to defeat. But they often times followed by captivating narrations and settings. You can say the exact same thing for Morrowind and Fallout 3 for obvious reason. In case of ME2, the final boss is the best example for this topic. The game does a great job of introducing the boss. Its grand music and sense of size is top notch. But when the fight begins, its just another "pls-hit-my-f***-me-light-to-win" boss. You just have to shove your laser into his holes. To its credit, his animations are fun to watch. You should be starting to see the pattern by now; An epic scene, followed by half-cooked combat. An epic cinematic exists in every games, but RPG dev teams are putting too much effort into making epic scenes and don't spend much time on the combat itself. Now, I'm not saying these games are terrible. They are all fun to play, but boss fights aren't. At least they aren't anything special.

On the other hand, fighting a group of enemies is really fun for all of the games I mentioned. Probably because programmers don't want to put complex AIs, and they like to spend more time on level designs instead. AIs aren't getting any better since the NES era despite of increasing production value and technology, and this is a little sad to realize.

Mod Note: Censor bypass removed.

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LoG-Sacrament

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#3 LoG-Sacrament
Member since 2006 • 20397 Posts
demon's souls is a japanese rpg but it more western and it has some really good boss fights. one of them is controlled by another player if youre worried about AI.
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AdrianWrz

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#4 AdrianWrz
Member since 2006 • 534 Posts

Dark Souls is sort of SPIRIT Squeal to Demon's Souls.... >.< my most antipiated game of this year >.< I do anything for a copy.

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LoG-Sacrament

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#5 LoG-Sacrament
Member since 2006 • 20397 Posts

Dark Souls is sort of SPIRIT Squeal to Demon's Souls.... >.< my most antipiated game of this year >.< I do anything for a copy.

AdrianWrz
you are becoming my new favorite user. dont ever change.
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immadbro

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#6 immadbro
Member since 2011 • 54 Posts

Modern western rpgs have bosses? i never knew, every enemy i've fought seemed like a trash mob to me perhaps thats what bored me about wrpg's.

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wiouds

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#7 wiouds
Member since 2004 • 6233 Posts

There are not that good. I put WRPG at the bottom when it comes to battles and their bosses are just normal units with a little but more power.

At the top of good bose battles I could put JRPGs.

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nnecron

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#8 nnecron
Member since 2010 • 25 Posts

Is that suppose to be a sarcasm or you really didn't noticed? Look at the games like Diablo or any dungeon crawlers. They got plenty of them.

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AdrianWrz

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#9 AdrianWrz
Member since 2006 • 534 Posts
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="AdrianWrz"]

Dark Souls is sort of SPIRIT Squeal to Demon's Souls.... >.< my most antipiated game of this year >.< I do anything for a copy.

you are becoming my new favorite user. dont ever change.

Whole REASON i bought PS3 was for Demon's Souls.
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campzor

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#10 campzor
Member since 2004 • 34932 Posts
if demons souls counts than that probably has the best boss battles from wrpgs. Havnt come across one yet in deus ex :P also alpha protocol has the most awesome boss battle :P "TURN UP... THE RADIO!!"
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texasgoldrush

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#11 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14941 Posts
WRPGs put less focus on boss battles....and thats okay. Its more realistic for major enemies to be just more powerful enemies than "bosses" that can take thousands or millions of HP in damage. And the boss quality has gotten worse in the JRPG genre...they were great backj in th emid 90's when it wasn't a one way strategy.
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craigofadown

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#13 craigofadown
Member since 2007 • 530 Posts

Totally agree on the bethesda comment, great games which do not allow themselves the capacity for good boss battles, not something i believe to be realistic on the engine however. Shame really.

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Rusteater

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#14 Rusteater
Member since 2004 • 4080 Posts

Always hated boss battles in JRPGs.

It's the 2D side scroller mentality applied to RPGs.

A huge overpowered "boss" at the end of a "level" ruins immersion.

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keister58

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#15 keister58
Member since 2011 • 25 Posts

The game does a great job of introducing the boss. Its grand music and sense of size is top notch. But when the fight begins, its just another "pls-hit-my-f***-me-light-to-win" boss. You just have to shove your laser into his holes. To its credit, his animations are fun to watch.

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padaporra

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#17 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

Most missions in ME2 had a great final fights with tougher enemys. They were often challenge and very fun, I liked this formula.. the last boss was lame though... and in LoTSB we had some amazing boss battles.

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wiouds

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#18 wiouds
Member since 2004 • 6233 Posts

Most WRPG gameplay is not that good and it does not allow for good bosses. The only good WRPG seam to come from the WRPG game that take the gameplay from other game types.

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XaosII

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#19 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

I dunno. I think WoW has some pretty epic and intersting boss battles. Especially since they have well over 80 or so epic boss fights, they keep making new and interesting mechanics so as to not bore people in boss fights.

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Qixote

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#20 Qixote
Member since 2002 • 10843 Posts

Not just RPGs, boss battles in general tend to be disappointing, uninspired, uncreative, etc, etc. There are rare exceptions of course. But apparently the industry is not learning from them.

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El_Zo1212o

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#21 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts
...also alpha protocol has the most awesome boss battle :P "TURN UP... THE RADIO!!"campzor
"Ah, so you can't hear anything over your jacket either, huh?" Awesome. Just fought him last night. On topic, I think boss battles are becoming obsolete altogether, so just focus on continuing this idea of conversation as the centerpiece of an RPG. And keep reworking co/bat systems to find a proper balance between player-skill based and stat based fighting.
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JohnnyWPSP

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#22 JohnnyWPSP
Member since 2009 • 1895 Posts

I like boss battles in general. They belong in any action game/shooter/RPG imo, which includes western RPGs like Mass Effect and Fallout.

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mems_1224

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#23 mems_1224
Member since 2004 • 56919 Posts
dont really care about boss battles as long as the rest of the game is great. like deus ex, the boss battles in that one are horrible. but its a really great game
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190586385885857957282413308806

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#24 190586385885857957282413308806
Member since 2002 • 13084 Posts
Bosses in RPG's suck in general. WRPG's tend to, for the most part, keep their bosses at least realistic. Meaning they won't set up this elaborate magic system only for you to find out that all your most powerful magic spells are suddenly ineffective/inefficiant to cause damage. Most of the times they follow the same rules as your characters, they only have larger amount of hitpoints/stats.
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nnecron

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#25 nnecron
Member since 2010 • 25 Posts

Come on guys, don't just agree with my oppinion. Disagree about what I wrote and stand up against me! This is why I opened this thread!

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ristactionjakso

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#26 ristactionjakso
Member since 2011 • 6118 Posts

1) Lost Planet 2- just simply amazing boss battles. the bosses are big, and hard to take down. and its multiplayer offline, and online. (I know, not a rpg, but it still has the best boss battles ever in my opinion)

2) Nier- This game has pretty cool boss battles. Some are huge bosses, others are......different but are still fun to fight. and if you find the game a little to easy, there is a difficulty setting.

3) DA2- while the story isnt that great when compared to the first dragon age, I think the fighting system is better. (my opinion ok) the bosses are pretty good. fire breathing dragons and what not are always fun to fight.

EDIT: 4) rogue galaxy- a great ps2 rpg game. everything about it is awesome. great bosses, great storyline, great fighting system, great characters.

In my opinion, ps3 doesn't have all the great rpg's like the ps1 and ps2 had. ps3 really needs to make some actual rpg's.

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CaineFH

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#27 CaineFH
Member since 2004 • 88 Posts

I dunno. I think WoW has some pretty epic and intersting boss battles. Especially since they have well over 80 or so epic boss fights, they keep making new and interesting mechanics so as to not bore people in boss fights.

XaosII

The only problem with WoW boss fights, is the fact that the tactic often is rediculous. We have yet toseea battle were you have tojump on one leg and spit over your right shoulder, while crossing your eyes,but any minute now, any minute.

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XaosII

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#28 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

I dunno. I think WoW has some pretty epic and intersting boss battles. Especially since they have well over 80 or so epic boss fights, they keep making new and interesting mechanics so as to not bore people in boss fights.

CaineFH

The only problem with WoW boss fights, is the fact that the tactic often is rediculous. We have yet toseea battle were you have tojump on one leg and spit over your right shoulder, while crossing your eyes,but any minute now, any minute.

I'd argue that the tactic for every boss fight in any non-turn based game is ridiculous.

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Blaze787

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#29 Blaze787
Member since 2007 • 535 Posts

It's true that most WRPG bosses aren't as difficult as they look in most cases. However, I don't see this as a bad thing. To me, tough boss battles are frustrating and can turn me off a game altogether.

I think Western devs realize that there are quite a few people who feel this way and don't really want to invest the time and energy repeating a boss battle over and over until they're good enough to progress and experience the rest of the gameplay and story.

JRPG bosses can be ridiculously difficult, and this is the main reason I don't purchase them any more.

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blueboxdoctor

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#30 blueboxdoctor
Member since 2010 • 2549 Posts

if demons souls counts than that probably has the best boss battles from wrpgs. Havnt come across one yet in deus ex :P also alpha protocol has the most awesome boss battle :P "TURN UP... THE RADIO!!"campzor

Deus Ex ones aren't bad until you reach the final one and think how much better it could've been, but that's sort of excusable since the rest of the game is great.

I do agree that nearly all types of games anymore have subpar boss battles. ME2 was great until the boring boss battle.

However, the dragons in skyrim look like there may be stronger ones that can be considered bosses, which if that ends up being true then that would be pretty cool.

And as others said, Demons' Souls if you happen to have a ps3, if not wait for Dark Souls as that most likely won't fail to disappoint if the bosses are anything like some of them in Demons' Souls.