Best/worst Final Fantasy battle systems?

Despite FFXIII having alot of problems and not being all that great overall, I think it's battle system struck a pretty good balance between simplicity and depth. It was simple and elegant, could be really tense during tougher battles, looked cool, and I thought that switching roles in different paradigms was a perfect acceptable (and maybe even better) alternative to not controlling every character in your party (which alot of people complained about) . I thought that the leveling tree was kind of tedious and pretty darn restrictive, but the gameplay itself was great and the action unfolded at an optimal pace. It's too bad that the easy battles persisted too far into the game and the lack of anything to do other than fight and watch cutscenes eventually gave the battles a feeling of tedium. If they would have paced the game better and had you perform other tasks between combat stretches and ramped up the difficulty earlier, I think alot more people would appreciate the simple yet strategic battle system.

As for the worst? FFVIII. My God, the junction system sucks! It shows everything that is wrong with convoluted battle systems that are convoluted just for the sake of being convoluted. No, it wasn't innovative because innovation implies that thinking outside the box actually leads to pragmatic results. Thinking outside the box just for the sake of it is pretty much game design masturbation IMO, which unfortunately, the FF developers have been guilty of on more than one occasion. The junction system is just needlessly complex, counter-intuitive and lacks balance. Leveling up is not advantageous, yet the system can be easy to exploit. And there is the horrible drawing aspect. At the end of the day, it just felt like FVIII's battle system was a bunch of parts that didn't mesh well with eachother. Some people may like this system for whatever reason, but there is the simple reality that alot of people are atleast initially confused by it, which does not speak well of any battle system. Not to mention that the tutorial is crap.

I suppose I could forgive a convoluted system if it ultimately leads to depth, but this doesn't really happen in FFVIII.

I don't think FFVIII is bad overall (though it does have alot of chinks in the armor) and I do find it to be one of the more beautiful FFs, but I do think that the junction system sums up the game's worst quality: awkwardness.

I agree with most of what you said there. But I still wouldn't say XIII is the best battle system. I like it, but FFX has the best battle system IMO.

I'm just generally more a fan of turn based stadegy then real time, and while most FF games do go slow enough for me to be fun, I still like it best when it completly stops every time the menu comes up, to give me all the time I need to plan my next move. And I also find the boss battles are a bit more tactical then most Final Fantasy games.

As for the worst: Final Fantasy VIII. I see no need to explain because you did a good job of doing that already.

I agree with most of what you said there. But I still wouldn't say XIII is the best battle system. I like it, but FFX has the best battle system IMO.

I'm just generally more a fan of turn based stadegy then real time, and while most FF games do go slow enough for me to be fun, I still like it best when it completly stops every time the menu comes up, to give me all the time I need to plan my next move. And I also find the boss battles are a bit more tactical then most Final Fantasy games.

As for the worst: Final Fantasy VIII. I see no need to explain because you did a good job of doing that already.

lazyathew

I think FFX is another great battle system (like FFXIII, it stresses simplicity and elegance), but I prefer the speed and immediacy of FFXIII's battle system.

I think FFX is a superior game in most ways though, especially in terms of its visual makeup and its music. There's no song in FFXIII that even comes close to matching the beauty of Besaid Island's music (and others).

Final Fantasy X has the battle system of any RPG I've ever played.

Also the Sphere Grid is the most amazing thing ever.

Not related, but I love everything about that game. :oops:

The worst battle system to me is FFVI.

Oh yeah. Totally went there.

I think FFX is a superior game in most ways though, especially in terms of it's visual makeup and it's music. There's no song in FFXIII that even comes close to matching the beauty of Besaid Island's music (and others).

GreySeal9

That's because Nobuo didn't compose the music.

If Nobuo had done FFXIII's music... it might have changed the entire feel of the game.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I think FFX is a superior game in most ways though, especially in terms of it's visual makeup and it's music. There's no song in FFXIII that even comes close to matching the beauty of Besaid Island's music (and others).

no_more_fayth

That's because Nobuo didn't compose the music.

If Nobuo had done FFXIII's music... it might have changed the entire feel of the game.

Although I wouldn't expect him to do the music in the same style as X (since the environment of FFXIII was more electronic), I wish he had done the music.

FXIII's music is decent but, while you do get the occasional gem (like the battle system music), so much of it is non-descript. I think that FFX's music had way more of a unique indentity.

This conversation is making me want to put on some FFX music.

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I think FFX is a superior game in most ways though, especially in terms of it's visual makeup and it's music. There's no song in FFXIII that even comes close to matching the beauty of Besaid Island's music (and others).

GreySeal9

That's because Nobuo didn't compose the music.

If Nobuo had done FFXIII's music... it might have changed the entire feel of the game.

Although I wouldn't expect him to do the music in the same style as X (since the environment of FFXIII was more electronic), I wish he had done the music.

FXIII's music is decent but, while you do get the occasional gem (like the battle system music), so much of it is non-descript. I think that FFX's music had way more of a unique indentity.

This conversation is making me want to put on some FFX music.

He could totally do a more electronic feel.

VII, VIII, IX, and X... all the styles are different.

Granted, he has orchestral, classical songs in each, the majority of the songs in each game differs in style.

I have the soundtracks if you wanna borrow them. :P

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

That's because Nobuo didn't compose the music.

If Nobuo had done FFXIII's music... it might have changed the entire feel of the game.

no_more_fayth

Although I wouldn't expect him to do the music in the same style as X (since the environment of FFXIII was more electronic), I wish he had done the music.

FXIII's music is decent but, while you do get the occasional gem (like the battle system music), so much of it is non-descript. I think that FFX's music had way more of a unique indentity.

This conversation is making me want to put on some FFX music.

He could totally do a more electronic feel.

VII, VIII, IX, and X... all the styles are different.

Granted, he has orchestral, classical songs in each, the majority of the songs in each game differs in style.

I have the soundtracks if you wanna borrow them. :P

Awesome. Actual CDs>Youtube.

Did you order them online? I assume that you can't find them in a record store.

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Although I wouldn't expect him to do the music in the same style as X (since the environment of FFXIII was more electronic), I wish he had done the music.

FXIII's music is decent but, while you do get the occasional gem (like the battle system music), so much of it is non-descript. I think that FFX's music had way more of a unique indentity.

This conversation is making me want to put on some FFX music.

GreySeal9

He could totally do a more electronic feel.

VII, VIII, IX, and X... all the styles are different.

Granted, he has orchestral, classical songs in each, the majority of the songs in each game differs in style.

I have the soundtracks if you wanna borrow them. :P

Awesome. Actual CDs>Youtube.

Did you order them online? I assume that you can't find them in a record store.

Good ol' Amazon. :oops:

God turned based combat is awful, might as well be playing a board game.

They need middle ground between turn based and real time... Which I think their doing for the next instalment.
Sorry for ranting. I just find TBC this generation of gaming archiac. It limits gameplay and overall immersion.

God turned based combat is awful, might as well be playing a board game.

They need middle ground between turn based and real time... Which I think their doing for the next instalment.
Sorry for ranting. I just findTBC thisgeneration of gamingdumb and archiac.It limitsgameplay and overall immersion...

YoungSinatra25

I love turn-based battle.

[QUOTE="YoungSinatra25"]

God turned based combat is awful, might as well be playing a board game.

They need middle ground between turn based and real time... Which I think their doing for the next instalment.
Sorry for ranting. I just findTBC thisgeneration of gamingdumb and archiac.It limitsgameplay and overall immersion...

no_more_fayth

I love turn-based battle.

Yeah, I love it too, especially during the boss fights. Contrary to what some people might think, turn-based boss battles can be incredibly tense. Particularly challenging ones have me at the edge of my seat and it's fun to figure out what kind of strategy you need to use.

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

[QUOTE="YoungSinatra25"]

God turned based combat is awful, might as well be playing a board game.

They need middle ground between turn based and real time... Which I think their doing for the next instalment.
Sorry for ranting. I just findTBC thisgeneration of gamingdumb and archiac.It limitsgameplay and overall immersion...

GreySeal9

I love turn-based battle.

Yeah, I love it too, especially during the boss fights. Contrary to what some people might think, turn-based boss battles can be incredibly tense. Particularly challenging ones have me at the edge of my seat and it's fun to figure out what kind of strategy you need to use.

I'm the same way.

I made a blog about my favorite boss battles.

Fighting Yunalesca in X... oh my god, that was a heart-pounder.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

I love turn-based battle.

no_more_fayth

Yeah, I love it too, especially during the boss fights. Contrary to what some people might think, turn-based boss battles can be incredibly tense. Particularly challenging ones have me at the edge of my seat and it's fun to figure out what kind of strategy you need to use.

I'm the same way.

I made a blog about my favorite boss battles.

Fighting Yunalesca in X... oh my god, that was a heart-pounder.

The thing in most remember from that battle is Mega Death driving me nuts. But of course that made beating the battle that much more satisfying.

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Yeah, I love it too, especially during the boss fights. Contrary to what some people might think, turn-based boss battles can be incredibly tense. Particularly challenging ones have me at the edge of my seat and it's fun to figure out what kind of strategy you need to use.

GreySeal9

I'm the same way.

I made a blog about my favorite boss battles.

Fighting Yunalesca in X... oh my god, that was a heart-pounder.

The thing in most remember from that battle is Mega Death driving me nuts. But of course that made beating the battle that much more satisfying.

Auron's speech before the fight breaks out just totally gets you in the mood to kick her ass.

But of course the first time playing, you don't know what's coming. :o

She has a few tricks up her sleeve.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

I'm the same way.

I made a blog about my favorite boss battles.

Fighting Yunalesca in X... oh my god, that was a heart-pounder.

no_more_fayth

The thing in most remember from that battle is Mega Death driving me nuts. But of course that made beating the battle that much more satisfying.

Auron's speech before the fight breaks out just totally gets you in the mood to kick her ass.

But of course the first time playing, you don't know what's coming. :o

She has a few tricks up her sleeve.

Yeah. Auron was pretty bad ass. He should be brought up when FF-haters try to accuse the series of only featuring girly men.

It did look kind of weird how his arm hung out of his outfit though...

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

The thing in most remember from that battle is Mega Death driving me nuts. But of course that made beating the battle that much more satisfying.

GreySeal9

Auron's speech before the fight breaks out just totally gets you in the mood to kick her ass.

But of course the first time playing, you don't know what's coming. :o

She has a few tricks up her sleeve.

Yeah. Auron was pretty bad ass. He should be brought up when FF-haters try to accuse the series of only featuring girly men.

It did look kind of weird how his arm hung out of his outfit though...

I believe it's a symbol of him being monkish/samurai-ish.

I know there's a reason he does that.

Yunalesca, and Seymour in Gagazet, were some great fights.

I love FFX's battle system, thoug I'm fond of the hyperactive battle system in FFX-2 as well. Most of that game is trash, but combat was wonderful.

FFXI also had an elegant battle system. A part of six who knows how it is supposed to work is a beautiful thing. Like a symphony.

Turns in combat allow for more thoughtful strategy. It's not for everyone, but a good turn-based system is a joy to play.

(1) FF13, Paradigm shift makes for fast paced, fun, and challenging combat.

(2) FF8, the Junction system was a great change of pace, was it flawed? Yeah..you spend hours drawing magic and it punishes you for using it, but it was great to use 1 time, it enabled the most powerful characters of the series, only the 7 characters come even close.

You put status effects on your mellee attacks, become immune to status effects, absorb elemental attacks, super boost your stats, its a great system that would just need some tweaking if they ever used ita gain.

(3) FF7, materia was a great idea, anyone can do anything.

I also personally like Crisis Core, Zack was a beast.

Favourite was FFVII. Straightforward, uncomplicated, and easy to use, yet incredibly effective. Not at all convoluted in the slightest bit.

Least favourite was FFXII. Some kind of strange unwelcome mixture of real-time + turn-based combat that just didn't sit well with me.

I would say I like FF9 battle system the best. They have a good away of keep the rich enemies. I like the real time system.

FF12 is the worst battle system. They enemies really did not seam that rich to me.

Best battle systems?

-Final Fantasy I
-Final Fantasy IV
-Final Fantasy V
-Final Fantasy VI
-Final Fantasy VII
-Final Fantasy IX
-Final Fantasy X

Worst battle systems?

-Final Fantasy VIII
-Final Fantasy XI
-Final Fantasy XII
-Final Fantasy XIII
-Final Fantasy XIV

Just my opinion though...

The materia system in VII worked great. FFX also has a great system.

FFX-2, FFXII, FFXIII being the worst for me.

God turned based combat is awful, might as well be playing a board game.

They need middle ground between turn based and real time... Which I think their doing for the next instalment.
Sorry for ranting. I just find TBC this generation of gaming archiac. It limits gameplay and overall immersion.

YoungSinatra25

On topic: I've played a few main FFs, which are I, III, IV, VII, IX and XIII.

The best for me is FFXIII. While that auto-something (can't remember the name lol) made it somewhat easy, it's fast paced, and it just feels great. The worst for me is *flame shield* the first FF. Yes I know it's old and shouldn't really be criticized, but i played only a few FFs, and this one's system felt odd.

I actually thought FFXII had the best battle system, while FFXIII had the worst. The only thing that sucked about FFXII was the story and irrelevant main character. Otherwise the seamless open world battles were great. FFXIII was fast pace, but there was no thinking to it at all. I think I literally button mashed myself through the whole thing with making some very minor deicsions along the way. The crafting was pretty good, but it's not apart of the battle system, which was the only thing a player had to think about in the game. If you put a few mins into upgrading equipment, you could EASYILY button mash all the way through. FFX is my second choice for the second best. I can say it was one of the more challenging FFs I've played. The only reason why I place FFXII over X is because of the seamless game play. FFX's story with FFXII's gameplay would make the best FF game ever.

I feel like people are hating on FFXII's batte system because of the story. The battle system itself, is the best system. X is a close 2nd. XIII is just a joke. Just imagine FFXII's battle system in today's time of gaming in a seamless, open world environment, which is what FF needs to get back to instead of this linear gameplay, button mash crap.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

I love turn-based battle.

no_more_fayth

Yeah, I love it too, especially during the boss fights. Contrary to what some people might think, turn-based boss battles can be incredibly tense. Particularly challenging ones have me at the edge of my seat and it's fun to figure out what kind of strategy you need to use.

I'm the same way.

I made a blog about my favorite boss battles.

Fighting Yunalesca in X... oh my god, that was a heart-pounder.

Ah Yunalesca, I still remember pacing back and forth in my room yelling orders like a football coach for over an hour. Too bad the PS2 didn't have trophies or achievements back then, I would have loved one after that fight.

FFX was my favorite combat system, I feel the turn by turn added an extra layer of strategy as opposed to hoping my ATB bar filled before the next attack.

FFXII was an attempt to create an offline MMO. The battle system wasn't bad, but the enemy types made it constantly vexing.

Mete, what didn't you like about FFXI's battle system?

id give the overall best system to FFXI. the preparation beforehand is rewarding and then the actual combat gives the best sense of teamwork in any final fantasy game. once the early levels are through, every party member has to know their objective and be aware of what everybody else is doing. one slip up by anybody and the whole party is in for a long fight. plus i just like how there isnt a transition to a battle screen. it gives everything a place in the world.

FFXII was an attempt to create an offline MMO. The battle system wasn't bad, but the enemy types made it constantly vexing.

Mete, what didn't you like about FFXI's battle system?

JonathanL

I found the battle system to be boring and slow, Jonathan. I'd like to have more control of my actions instead of just watching my character just swinging away constantly. I even played this game with a couple of friends and still, for the life of me, could not stay interested in it. But I guess, by that point, after spending several days to a week trying to get this game installed, then playing it for a few days more, I just found the battle system to be not a whole lot of fun.

One of these days, Square should take a page from Namco and learn something from one of the Tales games; that's a terrific battle system that should be in a role-playing gane. Fast, fun, and furious, plus I love the challenge. FFXI wasn't that fun for me...then again, I am not a huge fan of MMOs to begin with. Too much time wasted on it when I could have been playing better games to begin with.

And you're right - FFXII was an attempt to create an offline MMO...part of the reason why it's not a good Final Fantasy at all.

FFXII was an attempt to create an offline MMO.

JonathanL

Final Fantasy XII and Tactics were the best, with Final Fantasy II being the worst.

I think VII did a lot for the genre but hasn't aged well.

Are we talking about the leveling ssystem or just combat?

I understand that there are fans of the Tales games, and that's fine, but I hate that battle system. I like the concept of injecting action into RPG battles, but the way Tales games do it, with some kind of lobotomized fighting game thing, just doesn't fly for me.

For myself, FFX had the best battle system. It had the system we all grew to love with each of the advancements the series had made over the years with the addition of it's own - character switching.

The worst would be FFVIII. I didn't enjoy the draw system and I felt the game relied far too heavily on summons.

Best battle system of all? Grandia series.

God turned based combat is awful, might as well be playing a board game.

They need middle ground between turn based and real time... Which I think their doing for the next instalment.
Sorry for ranting. I just find TBC this generation of gaming archiac. It limits gameplay and overall immersion.

YoungSinatra25

How does it limit combat? It's strategic.

Some players want a heavy action based game that require combo memorizations and quick reflexes, others like to take their time and plan ahead. To each their own. I save the combos for fighting games and series like Ninja Gaiden.

Final Fantasy X has the battle system of any RPG I've ever played.

Also the Sphere Grid is the most amazing thing ever.

Not related, but I love everything about that game. :oops:

The worst battle system to me is FFVI.

Oh yeah. Totally went there.

no_more_fayth

I am genuinely curious what you don't like about FFVI's combat system. It has the standard turn based gameplay, a wide selection of characters with different roles, a standard summon system that also offers the ability to learn spells, and the active time battle system.

I don't really understand how the Junction system is "complex," let alone "overly complex." Put magic in a stat, it goes up. I personally think it's a great idea, but I think it was handled poorly. Which is why, unfortunately, I would agree with FFVIII being one of the lesser battle systems.

let me say the worst FF battle system.... FF8, because junction system is confusing....until you get to the 2nd disc...or when you played the game for the second round. However, once you get most of the Guardian force and draw many magic... it's getting addictive

Having Pocketstation is a Plus for this game....for having ot's of rare magic

I don't really understand how the Junction system is "complex," let alone "overly complex." Put magic in a stat, it goes up. I personally think it's a great idea, but I think it was handled poorly. Which is why, unfortunately, I would agree with FFVIII being one of the lesser battle systems.

hakanakumono

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

Final Fantasy X has the battle system of any RPG I've ever played.

Also the Sphere Grid is the most amazing thing ever.

Not related, but I love everything about that game. :oops:

The worst battle system to me is FFVI.

Oh yeah. Totally went there.

Velric

I am genuinely curious what you don't like about FFVI's combat system. It has the standard turn based gameplay, a wide selection of characters with different roles, a standard summon system that also offers the ability to learn spells, and the active time battle system.

I don't like equipping pretty much every character with a sword and shield.

Totally defeats the purpose of front row and back row.

Yeah, that game has four thousand characters.

Too bad they all get, like, one move.

I don't like being able to choose whatever magic I want people to have once you get summons.

The main reason why I disliked FFXII was because any character could use any weapon or magic you wanted them.

That destroys part of their personality.

[QUOTE="YoungSinatra25"]

God turned based combat is awful, might as well be playing a board game.

They need middle ground between turn based and real time... Which I think their doing for the next instalment.
Sorry for ranting. I just find TBC this generation of gaming archiac. It limits gameplay and overall immersion.

Velric

How does it limit combat? It's strategic.

Some players want a heavy action based game that require combo memorizations and quick reflexes, others like to take their time and plan ahead. To each their own. I save the combos for fighting games and series like Ninja Gaiden.

I don't really understand how the Junction system is "complex," let alone "overly complex."

Also the Sphere Grid is the most amazing thing ever.

I don't really understand how the Junction system is "complex," let alone "overly complex."

hakanakumono

It was complex when people didn't understand it first, myself included, but once they did get the idea, either they used it or they don't. For me, when I played the most atrocious FF on the planet, it was so f****** boring to grind hours and hours of spells that you didn't need to have in the first place. Only a few spells even mattered in the end, so having at least up to 20-30 of those spells are just fine. Not once did I EVER use the Junction system to my benefit, because let's be honest, you really don't need it. I've made it to the last boss without even touching the system....that's how bad it was. It was boring to use, it was handled poorly, and it was just a bad system overall. The Junction system, quite frankly, was a system that should not EVEN EXIST...but it is there...and that sucks major ass!

I'd have to go with VI, VIII, and X (despite its numerous gameplay failings) as the best of Final Fantasy gameplay. I can't speak for XII and XIII as I haven't played them. VI provided a variety of characters each with their own unique skills to go along with equipping the espers for added measure. VIII actually forced gamers to hit other buttons besides "X", a huge step for Final Fantasy gamers. In all seriousness however, the QTEs for unleashing a character's finisher was a nice touch, the overworld, having to find parts for your weapons for the upgrades and level design were executed splendidly. The Junction system was quite brilliant and allowed for a good deal of customization. Such "freedom" was almost unheard of in FF at that time. I might even call FFVIII the single best gameplay system of the series.

FFX brought us swapping characters in battle and opened up new strategic options (it was about ******* time Square). Depsite the crests/sigils debacle this edition of FF really opened up things a lot. It's just too bad that physical attacks became worthless later in the game without a FAQ to help unlock the ultimate weapons.

As far as the worst, that would be all the other FF games that I haven't mentioned. FFI gets a pass as it was the first, but I find the rest of the FF games needlessly trapped in the comfort zone of being a class JRPG borefest. Hardly any distinguishing features, just a lot of silly cliches and near 8-bit era RPG gameplay.

I don't like equipping pretty much every character with a sword and shield.

Totally defeats the purpose of front row and back row.

Yeah, that game has four thousand characters.

Too bad they all get, like, one move.

I don't like being able to choose whatever magic I want people to have once you get summons.

The main reason why I disliked FFXII was because any character could use any weapon or magic you wanted them.

That destroys part of their personality.

no_more_fayth

all your dislikes make no sense. you don't like everyone equipping anything in ff12 but you don't like having to equip characters with their specific weapons in ff6? you don't like the open ended customizable characters in ff12 but you also don't like the characters in ff6 that have their pre-set move?

it basically sounds to me like you don't really know what you want in a game. unless its just characters finding their own specific little weapons that automatically equip. at which point why bother getting new weapons, why not just have everything powerup after a certain point.... at which point why bother playing a jrpg?