Are moral chooses in RPGs needed?

There are many moral chooses in RPGs these days. Do you think they are needed or not?

I find that many mortal chooses are not important and have no real affect on the game but for the very end of the game. They have little affect on the game play.

RPG choices are needed, but need to be improved in its current state, The Witcher treated morality pretty well, while Mass Effect treated them pretty poorly.

RPG's need more dating sim elements.

RPG's need more dating sim elements.

Ravirr

Yes, I've been the bright-eyed lawful good hero in way too many games. Let me make my own choices of whether I want to be chaotic or even evil. Gives the game variety and makes it stand out.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

There are many moral chooses in RPGs these days. Do you think they are needed or not?

I find that many mortal chooses are not important and have no real affect on the game but for the very end of the game. They have little affect on the game play.

TonyDanzaFan

Sorry your reading skill is too poor to understand a message typed in a rush.

I think they are needed. When you choose to be good or evil the overall experience and your perception of everything in the game is made, which is unique to each person. I think it's great. While just playing on one set moral compass can be fun the benefits of makingmy own desicionsare better.

I don't think they are needed at all. I like a good story inRPG's, I don't need the option to completely change it depending on the choices I make. That also greatly limits the kind of stories you can tell.

They are cool for some games, but I defintly don't want it to become a requirement for developers to include it in all RPG's.

I don't think they are needed at all. I like a good story inRPG's, I don't need the option to completely change it depending on the choices I make. That also greatly limits the kind of stories you can tell.

They are cool for some games, but I defintly don't want it to become a requirement for developers to include it in all RPG's.

lazyathew

Not everyone's first language is English, guys. This is an international forum posted on by people around the world. So please, get a grip, and cut people some slack. I know it's the internet, and when your anonymous it's easy to be a jerk, but it doesn't mean you should do it.SteveTabernacle

If that were the case, I'm sure nobody would have a problem with it; but the OP blamed his or her mistakes on "being in a rush," not that his or her first language isn't English. He or she is just opening him or her up for more laughter and ridicule.

[QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"]Not everyone's first language is English, guys. This is an international forum posted on by people around the world. So please, get a grip, and cut people some slack. I know it's the internet, and when your anonymous it's easy to be a jerk, but it doesn't mean you should do it.Conscrumptured

[QUOTE="Conscrumptured"][QUOTE="SteveTabernacle"]Not everyone's first language is English, guys. This is an international forum posted on by people around the world. So please, get a grip, and cut people some slack. I know it's the internet, and when your anonymous it's easy to be a jerk, but it doesn't mean you should do it.SteveTabernacle

Are they needed? No, plenty of great RPG's don't have a good/evil morality scale feature. But I personally welcome them in games that do it well. Dragon Age did a fairly good job of it. Their was no good and evil status bar to let you know where on the scale you are. It was "if you do this, this will happen as a direct cause". The fact that the decisions were good or evil was somewhat secondary.

But I do agree with a lot of posters this feature needs to be treated a bit more maturely. Being evil sometimes and sometimes being good slaps you in a strange middle ground that typically isn't any fun to play as, and typically the moral decisions are horribly transparent. Developers need to figure out a more organic ebb and flow when it comes to morality choices in games.

I'm not arguing that. But as long as the "victim" uses such excuses, it just makes it funnier.Conscrumptured

The problem is that most modern rpgs are based upon a model of present-day western religious moral codes. The moral choices lack subtelty, presenting an almost non-exist gray area in which most people operate. And in times of desperation in which survival becomes the most important consideration, moral code should basically be thrown out the window. For example, in a post-apocalyptic game like Fallout 3, traditional conceptions of good and right should be thrown out of the window.

One problem, I have with some moral chooses is that they become the focus of the game for a while but the only effect is a short moment after I beat the game.

I would like less moral chooses and more about chooses about how to deal with problems. For example, the player can pick who will become the ruler but every one of the player's character use the same path. This mean even if the player is trying to play two different role like a heavy, powerful fighter or a nimble, stealthy rouge, the player is force to play both close to the same way.

RPGs can have great stories and be good games without moral choices. With that said, being able to influence the story as a whole and customize a character's personality really makes you feel like you are "role playing" and makes the overall experience more personal. It also adds a lot of replay value since you can play a game over and over again and not have the same experience twice. I enjoy games where there are moral choices to be made, unfortunately many developers don't utilize this feature properly and many decisions come off as being shallow or only having a small impact on the story. Still its not absolutely needed and in fact many games are better off with a more straight forward story than something that can be changed through specific plot decisions. It all comes down to the developers using this feature for the right game and putting in enough time and effort to make them effective.

RPG's need some sort of choices, that's what makes them RPG's. Moral choices and being able to influence the story, other characters or the gameworld are probably the most interesting and profound choices one can make in an RPG. I would definitely like to see more developers offer shades of gray (The Witcher, and to a lesser extent, Dragon Age), but straight-up good/evil choices should have a place in RPG's as well. The bigger variety of choices in RPG's, the better.

They aren't necessary, but they add a whole lot of fun.

[QUOTE="Ravirr"]

RPG's need more dating sim elements.

funsohng

There are many moral chooses in RPGs these days. Do you think they are needed or not?

I find that many mortal chooses are not important and have no real affect on the game but for the very end of the game. They have little affect on the game play.

wiouds

If you ever played Tatics Ogre on the PS1, you'd reach a point (Depending on your previous choices) where you could choose to:

1. Kill an entire city and frame a neighboring country on it in order to set the mood of your entire country get up to arms. (Thus becoming a Lawful character... interesting uh? Comit genocide and be a law abbiding dude...).
2. Go against the orders and don't commit genocide. (Thus becoming a chaotic character).

Later in the game(Depending on your previous choices) you could either:

1. Move onward with a plan set by your country's ruler that could probably kill your entire team.
2. Return to your HQ city, kill said ruler and take over the throne by force.

Trust me... gameplay was unchanged throughout the game, but choices did mean something on that game...

For all I know, moral choices are needed, should be better implemented, giving lasting impact on the imediate and long term run of the history. BEing evil should be as rewarding as being good (Some games actually make your like impossible when being evil, while others make so much better being evil that the good counterpart seems dull... namely Kotor II and recently ME2 do the later).

It really depends. Some RPG's are just focused on telling a central, good story. (Crono Trigger.) Others like to make you feel like you have an effect on the world. (Fallout 3, KOTOR, Mass Effect.) Is it really needed? Probably not. But, if done correctly, it makes the game a hell of alot more interesting.

[QUOTE="TonyDanzaFan"][QUOTE="wiouds"]

There are many moral chooses in RPGs these days. Do you think they are needed or not?

I find that many mortal chooses are not important and have no real affect on the game but for the very end of the game. They have little affect on the game play.

wiouds

Sorry your reading skill is too poor to understand a message typed in a rush.

In his defense, your message was pretty bad. "Choices" not "chooses," which you wrote twice. "Effect" not "affect," which is a verb. "Moral" not "mortal."

I just assumed you were not a native English speaker.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="TonyDanzaFan"] "Mortal chooses?" Learn proper grammar, then come back here and post.MithrilFox

Sorry your reading skill is too poor to understand a message typed in a rush.

In his defense, your message was pretty bad. "Choices" not "chooses," which you wrote twice. "Effect" not "affect," which is a verb. "Moral" not "mortal."

I just assumed you were not a native English speaker.

It is "affect" which mean something like influence. While, "effect" is is something like result

There are some tough decisions for the developers too :). If the choices have a big impact then, all other things being equal, the game will be shorter. I don't like the "it gives replay value to see what might have happened", because u need to replay a lot of the areas not affected too. Also if there are several dilemmas the number of branches increase exponentially. If there are ten dilemmas u may need a thousand play throughs to see it all.

Secondly if the choices are very black and white it feels pretty silly. On the other hand it is very unclear what will happen it's just like u are making a blind guess. In games u are never given the option to research further like u would do, facing a tough choice, in real life. Basically the game can do whatever they want with ur choice, so u haven't any real influence on the game anyway. For these reasons I prefer keeping the number of moral choices to a minimum.

Choice is the inherent element in "role-playing." A game that lets you customize your character in terms of stats and/or look... but fails to let you mould his/her personality and how they are viewed among NPC's in the game's world is not a "role-playing" game from my perspective. That would prevent a lot of games known to be "RPG's" from being termed as such... but "role-playing" has become too much of a generic term for anything with any semblance of choice, and doesn't focus on actual "role-playing."

[QUOTE="Ravirr"]

RPG's need more dating sim elements.

funsohng

I agree with this, I find myself enjoying the RPG games more if there is a bit of a relationship thing going on with your main character, it helps crap loads in bringing that character more to life and make you feel more connected to the games world.

Fallout New Vegas although setting new ground in terms of freedom of story, does a great job of making your character feel like you were never really there. Most your actions go unnoticed, some people don't even know if your a man or a women and it's rare you get credit for stuff even if it was something major like wiping out a whole town using only a shaving razor. Your character needed more connection to the game world.

I think they are needed. They give replay value to the game, and also provide a lot of flexibility in gameplay.

I enjoy RPGs that allow neutral choices in addition to good & evil.

It's a shame that ME1 and 2 are only thought of as having black and white choices because of a few choices and the meter when in actuality it has choices from everything to basic ways you talk to people, to the gray areas and good vs. evil choices. I think choices are fine the way they are I think it's the consequences that developers need to work on. These days, the devs are too afraid to punish a person for the decisions they make or the decisions just result in some kind of loot and a change in a meter. I can't think of the last game that really punished me for being a d***.smerlus

These days, the devs are too afraid to punish a person for the decisions they make or the decisions just result in some kind of loot and a change in a meter. I can't think of the last game that really punished me for being a d***.smerlus

Something to consider, however, is that if a player constantly gets punished for being evil, then why make an evil path in the first place? I believe there's a fine line to walk between "punishing" a player for being evil/chaotic, and influencing the flow of the game by that same player's choices. While an evil character shouldn't get to use God's Holy Sword of Badassery, a new (and equal) door should instead be opened, so maybe instead they get Lucifer's Doomsday Device.

In the end, we have to keep in mind that these ARE video games. And while both good and evil actions should have consequences, they should both equally give the player an opportunity to continue the story without severely crippling their own character due to RP decisions.

yes i do believe their needed as they bring some1 more into the game and make them care for their actions

i found mass effect 2 did this very well

[QUOTE="smerlus"]These days, the devs are too afraid to punish a person for the decisions they make or the decisions just result in some kind of loot and a change in a meter. I can't think of the last game that really punished me for being a d***.Greyfeld

Something to consider, however, is that if a player constantly gets punished for being evil, then why make an evil path in the first place? I believe there's a fine line to walk between "punishing" a player for being evil/chaotic, and influencing the flow of the game by that same player's choices. While an evil character shouldn't get to use God's Holy Sword of Badassery, a new (and equal) door should instead be opened, so maybe instead they get Lucifer's Doomsday Device.

In the end, we have to keep in mind that these ARE video games. And while both good and evil actions should have consequences, they should both equally give the player an opportunity to continue the story without severely crippling their own character due to RP decisions.

while they are at it, punish the player for being a saint. doing the right thing isnt always easy.LoG-Sacrament

Exactly. Whatever happened to good characters passing by on quest rewards, or annoying powerful factions by refusing to follow their more-questionable orders?

Anyway, RPGs need choices in my mind (unless they're Action RPGs like Diablo, JRPGs, SRPGs, or the various other sub-genres), else they wouldn't really be 'roleplaying' games. So the more moral choices the better, but...they need to be done better than most companies currently do them (with the exception of Obsidian and CDProjekt Red, who do them better than anyone else).

I think we need more games with more than just good and evil choices, and with meaningful conequences to boot. I also think we need more games that punish players for their choices, and...so on. It's all been said before, really, but most of the big companies prefer to take roleplaying in the other direction - making things simpler and providing less choise with every new sequel.

They aren't needed