AI bots should be standard in competitive multiplayer

I haven't been on the fps bandwagon long, but games like BF3 would have been much better with an offline mode where you can create a server full of AI bots with options to make them hostile or dormant.

This would also be great for running a few practice team matches with friends without worrying about rage quits from the opposition or if you just want to practice vehicle handling or fire off a few rounds without some idiot ruining your fun. I'm surprised this isn't an mp standard by now.

I agree, but I know some devs are gona turn this into a bad thing.Lulu_Lulu

I agree x 1000000000000.

I've been saying this for many years now, I think it's because they want gamers to always be online so they can get us to buy their online passes, weapon /map packs, skins etc.  Either way it sucks and is a reason why I prefer games like Killzone 2 and Black Ops 1/2 as I'm not forced to go online and deal with idiots who camp, drop shot, rage and rant.  I love AI bots and being able to play the maps I like while avoiding the sniper friendly ones in a pressure free environment, I've happily avoided certain fps titles because they had no AI bots and I have no regrets.  Aliens vs Predator is a perfect example of a game that would have greatly benefited from AI bots now that the servers are a barren wasteland.

[QUOTE="Lulu_Lulu"]I agree, but I know some devs are gona turn this into a bad thing.platinumking320

Even the best AI cant compete with a actual thinking human being. If you practiced against them you would just be setting yourself up for a major ass whipping when you went up against even mediocre real players.

The only way AI bots could beat someone is by jacking up their abilities beyond what any human could do like giving them godlike range and accuracy, they couldnt outsmart a human or think like a human. They would depend strictly on cheating in order to win. The matches would go something like you stick your head out a inch and a bot with a pistol headshots you from the other side of the map.

No one can be competitive training against bots, unless your dream is to do nothing but compete against bots.

Last night playing BF3 I had a guy chasing me into an alley, I came up to a turn and I threw a grenade forward against the wall, it bounced backward and blew up behind me as I turned the corner killing him. I take a flag and getting ready to move to the next and I glance over and see a tank rolling in so I drop a couple mines next to the flag and I get in a jeep and drive off, a minute later I see where I got a double kill because they saw no one there and just rolled right in. Ive see a chopper land to pick up a teammate of his and I run over to throw c4 on the chopper, when the guy gets in and it lifts off I blow it up. Ive put c4 on a jeep and drove it into a enemy base jumping out along the way and setting it off once it rolls into the group. If Im in a tank and I see a guy shoot a rocket at me and run behind something, I switch to the top turret and aim at the other side because I know he will more than likely try to pop out there for another shot and I kill him and he if he doesnt pop out I know the top turret moves much faster and can fire multiple rounds to nail him. No AI bot is going to think like that or be able to use a humans tactics.

What's the latest game to be made with bots? The last game I played with bots was Perfect Dark Zero.

Even the best AI cant compete with a actual thinking human being. If you practiced against them you would just be setting yourself up for a major ass whipping when you went up against even mediocre real players.

 

The only way AI bots could beat someone is by jacking up their abilities beyond what any human could do like giving them godlike range and accuracy, they couldnt outsmart a human or think like a human. They would depend strictly on cheating in order to win. The matches would go something like you stick your head out a inch and a bot with a pistol headshots you from the other side of the map.

 

No one can be competitive training against bots, unless your dream is to do nothing but compete against bots.

 

Last night playing BF3 I had a guy chasing me into an alley, I came up to a turn and I threw a grenade forward against the wall, it bounced backward and blew up behind me as I turned the corner killing him. I take a flag and getting ready to move to the next and I glance over and see a tank rolling in so I drop a couple mines next to the flag and I get in a jeep and drive off, a minute later I see where I got a double kill because they saw no one there and just rolled right in. Ive see a chopper land to pick up a teammate of his and I run over to throw c4 on the chopper, when the guy gets in and it lifts off I blow it up. Ive put c4 on a jeep and drove it into a enemy base jumping out along the way and setting it off once it rolls into the group. If Im in a tank and I see a guy shoot a rocket at me and run behind something, I switch to the top turret and aim at the other side because I know he will more than likely try to pop out there for another shot and I kill him and he if he doesnt pop out I know the top turret moves much faster and can fire multiple rounds to nail him. No AI bot is going to think like that or be able to use a humans tactics.

Gargus

Situationally I agree its beneficial to get used to competing with real people, but the only way to be competitive against human beings is to focus and expect the unexpected.

Fundamentally I disagree. There are still a lot of human players online that revert back to familiar tactics when challenged enough, and CPU's can be programmed (though more common in fighters than multiplayer shooters) to respond to familiar human patterns of attack or retreat. Remember a human being is also writing this code, the only hinderance is where they'll typically spawn from and what limit that programmer puts on the Ai behaviors in his code.

Since the 1980s specialized cpus have demonstrated themselves capable of defeating world champion chess players, and still do today. To me I see the Ai code as a pro gambler or rpg menu, professionally wagering against our circumstantial likeness to defeat it while we move around spatially in real time. A lot of time But most of all, we get exhausted, frustrated, tired, presumptuous, too risky, and we can't always wager that against consistent programming.

Killzone 2, 3 & Black Ops 1 were the examples of a.i. bots in competitvie multiplayer modes. Its 2013 & you think game developers would add it to their games for players who want to get some practice or like playing offline multiplayer mode.

What's the latest game to be made with bots? The last game I played with bots was Perfect Dark Zero.

firefox59

[QUOTE="firefox59"]

What's the latest game to be made with bots? The last game I played with bots was Perfect Dark Zero.

1PMrFister

I think they should at least have a type of bot mode where you can customize/upgrade/and program each individual bot on your team to do certain things to win the battle. And make it like a online mode, and a splitscreen offline mode to battle it out with ur friends.

Even the best AI cant compete with a actual thinking human being. If you practiced against them you would just be setting yourself up for a major ass whipping when you went up against even mediocre real players.

The only way AI bots could beat someone is by jacking up their abilities beyond what any human could do like giving them godlike range and accuracy, they couldnt outsmart a human or think like a human. They would depend strictly on cheating in order to win. The matches would go something like you stick your head out a inch and a bot with a pistol headshots you from the other side of the map.

No one can be competitive training against bots, unless your dream is to do nothing but compete against bots.

Gargus

It's not about getting better so much as warmed up. I know when I sit down to play multiplayer, some nights it takes a few matches to get my aim right. I dunno what it is...stiff thumbs? But an AI filled match would be a friendly place to "stretch" for the real thing.

Also, it's a great way to learn the maps for yourself or teach them to a friend.

took the words out of my mouth. 

Alpha Squad had Coop Competitions with custom made maps and missions. Teams would get the map with a basic mission on it to practice up until the tournament started. When the tournament started, teams got a custom mission again made for that map which all teams would play against the clock as well as the other teams. These tournaments were really big.

This is where the IGOR mission editor really shined. Modders were able to get AI to do what one would expect, but then again, Ghost Recon had some pretty good AI that would flank you and even six you when you least expected it. That does not mean that GR's AI was perfect, but with some more work, RSE could have made it even better. Personally, I think the RSE game engine was innovative for FPS games, especially in the Tac-Sim genre and a bit more work with it would have made it even better than other game engines. Sad that Ubi didn't let RSE continue or make them continue with it's development. 

[QUOTE="1PMrFister"][QUOTE="firefox59"]

What's the latest game to be made with bots? The last game I played with bots was Perfect Dark Zero.

Black_Knight_00

I agree it'd be good, especially if it was like Killzone's Botzone with difficulty levels to choose from aswell.

AI is good for a fun little romp, but they will never ever prepare you for actual human opponents. I'd actually suggest that they might hurt your game because getting used to AI tendencies can be a very bad thing.

What's the latest game to be made with bots? The last game I played with bots was Perfect Dark Zero.

firefox59

Heck yes! One of the main reasons why I bought Black Ops II and the Season Pass for it!

The bots in PD0 were great. I also enjoyed the bots in RB6's Terrorist Hunt mode.

AI is good for a fun little romp, but they will never ever prepare you for actual human opponents. I'd actually suggest that they might hurt your game because getting used to AI tendencies can be a very bad thing.

Pikminmaniac

I would agree, if human opponents didn't camp. While there are humans that will get out and attack the opposite team with gusto, there is always one that will sit in a corner somewhere where they can just rack up kills. 

The bots in PD0 were great. I also enjoyed the bots in RB6's Terrorist Hunt mode.

Shame-usBlackley

The AI in Ghost Recon were even better. 

I've always liked playing against bots, because I don't have to worry about losing as much in ranked competition, plus I enjoy it more. I would have liked to check out PD0's bots in action though...a lot of people seemed to praise them when they played it...

[QUOTE="Pikminmaniac"]

AI is good for a fun little romp, but they will never ever prepare you for actual human opponents. I'd actually suggest that they might hurt your game because getting used to AI tendencies can be a very bad thing.

WhiteKnight77

I would agree, if human opponents didn't camp. While there are humans that will get out and attack the opposite team with gusto, there is always one that will sit in a corner somewhere where they can just rack up kills. 

No one plays against bots just for playing against humans, they play against the computer to learn exploits they can later use against humans. Our advantage as people is spontaneity. The advantage a computer has is consistency over time. They don't fatigue. Extended AI play conditions us to sharpen our skills over time and develop a working rhythm. ( so does water and exercise but not entirely in context of the game. ) You don't have time to do all these things when a human's bullying you, unless you already Pwn the area.

[QUOTE="Pikminmaniac"]

AI is good for a fun little romp, but they will never ever prepare you for actual human opponents. I'd actually suggest that they might hurt your game because getting used to AI tendencies can be a very bad thing.

WhiteKnight77

I would agree, if human opponents didn't camp. While there are humans that will get out and attack the opposite team with gusto, there is always one that will sit in a corner somewhere where they can just rack up kills. 

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="Pikminmaniac"]

AI is good for a fun little romp, but they will never ever prepare you for actual human opponents. I'd actually suggest that they might hurt your game because getting used to AI tendencies can be a very bad thing.

platinumking320

I would agree, if human opponents didn't camp. While there are humans that will get out and attack the opposite team with gusto, there is always one that will sit in a corner somewhere where they can just rack up kills. 

No one plays against bots just for playing against humans, they play against the computer to learn exploits they can later use against humans. Our advantage as people is spontaneity. The advantage a computer has is consistency over time. They don't fatigue. Extended AI play conditions us to sharpen our skills over time and develop a working rhythm. ( so does water and exercise but not entirely in context of the game. ) You don't have time to do all these things when a human's bullying you, unless you already Pwn the area.

What? Care to make a bit more sense?

AI, made properly, can be better than humans any day. As noted, humans can sit in a corner where they can rack up kills without getting killed themselves. The Embassy map on Ghost Recon in the hotel is a great example of this. One could go down the hall and be able to sit there and be far enough away that they could not be attacked by those tossing grenade through the door or be attacked from the other side through the open windows by explosives either. AI just would not sit around.

That's why I referenced the Alpha Squad GR Coop Tournaments. GR had AI that would do things that one would expect human opponents to do unlike humans actually playing. 

[QUOTE="platinumking320"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

I would agree, if human opponents didn't camp. While there are humans that will get out and attack the opposite team with gusto, there is always one that will sit in a corner somewhere where they can just rack up kills. 

WhiteKnight77

No one plays against bots just for playing against humans, they play against the computer to learn exploits they can later use against humans. Our advantage as people is spontaneity. The advantage a computer has is consistency over time. They don't fatigue. Extended AI play conditions us to sharpen our skills over time and develop a working rhythm. ( so does water and exercise but not entirely in context of the game. ) You don't have time to do all these things when a human's bullying you, unless you already Pwn the area.

What? Care to make a bit more sense?

AI, made properly, can be better than humans any day. As noted, humans can sit in a corner where they can rack up kills without getting killed themselves. The Embassy map on Ghost Recon in the hotel is a great example of this. One could go down the hall and be able to sit there and be far enough away that they could not be attacked by those tossing grenade through the door or be attacked from the other side through the open windows by explosives either. AI just would not sit around.

That's why I referenced the Alpha Squad GR Coop Tournaments. GR had AI that would do things that one would expect human opponents to do unlike humans actually playing. 

What?  I thought I already said I'm aware of AI's capabilities. (i lose games too bud sheesh!) After all a person is sitting down to program AI and computers have  crushed world champion chess players since the 80's.

Fine (smh) I'll boil it down it down to bullet points

• If one wants to sharpen their skills and learn maps without too much interference from random assholery. AI is better choice. Just like fighters that have practice modes.
• When someone wants to beat specific pro players the best way is to face THEM as often as possible, and learn what that player likely do.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="platinumking320"]

No one plays against bots just for playing against humans, they play against the computer to learn exploits they can later use against humans. Our advantage as people is spontaneity. The advantage a computer has is consistency over time. They don't fatigue. Extended AI play conditions us to sharpen our skills over time and develop a working rhythm. ( so does water and exercise but not entirely in context of the game. ) You don't have time to do all these things when a human's bullying you, unless you already Pwn the area.

platinumking320

What? Care to make a bit more sense?

AI, made properly, can be better than humans any day. As noted, humans can sit in a corner where they can rack up kills without getting killed themselves. The Embassy map on Ghost Recon in the hotel is a great example of this. One could go down the hall and be able to sit there and be far enough away that they could not be attacked by those tossing grenade through the door or be attacked from the other side through the open windows by explosives either. AI just would not sit around.

That's why I referenced the Alpha Squad GR Coop Tournaments. GR had AI that would do things that one would expect human opponents to do unlike humans actually playing. 

What?  I thought I already said I'm aware of AI's capabilities. (i lose games too bud sheesh!) After all a person is sitting down to program AI and computers have  crushed world champion chess players since the 80's.

Fine (smh) I'll boil it down it down to bullet points

• If one wants to sharpen their skills and learn maps without too much interference from random assholery. AI is better choice. Just like fighters that have practice modes.
• When someone wants to beat specific pro players the best way is to face THEM as often as possible, and learn what that player likely do.

I wanted you to make sense of this: "No one plays against bots just for playing against humans."

[QUOTE="platinumking320"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

What? Care to make a bit more sense?

AI, made properly, can be better than humans any day. As noted, humans can sit in a corner where they can rack up kills without getting killed themselves. The Embassy map on Ghost Recon in the hotel is a great example of this. One could go down the hall and be able to sit there and be far enough away that they could not be attacked by those tossing grenade through the door or be attacked from the other side through the open windows by explosives either. AI just would not sit around.

That's why I referenced the Alpha Squad GR Coop Tournaments. GR had AI that would do things that one would expect human opponents to do unlike humans actually playing. 

WhiteKnight77

What?  I thought I already said I'm aware of AI's capabilities. (i lose games too bud sheesh!) After all a person is sitting down to program AI and computers have  crushed world champion chess players since the 80's.

Fine (smh) I'll boil it down it down to bullet points

• If one wants to sharpen their skills and learn maps without too much interference from random assholery. AI is better choice. Just like fighters that have practice modes.
• When someone wants to beat specific pro players the best way is to face THEM as often as possible, and learn what that player likely do.

I wanted you to make sense of this: "No one plays against bots just for playing against humans."

Jesus guy! No one grinds against bots exclusively to PREPARE themselves to defeat human players. Mastering against AI only prepares you to defeat that A.I. I gotta spell it out 4 you?

[QUOTE="Pikminmaniac"]

AI is good for a fun little romp, but they will never ever prepare you for actual human opponents. I'd actually suggest that they might hurt your game because getting used to AI tendencies can be a very bad thing.

WhiteKnight77

I would agree, if human opponents didn't camp. While there are humans that will get out and attack the opposite team with gusto, there is always one that will sit in a corner somewhere where they can just rack up kills. 

I can't complain about getting caught out there from a good sniper who plays his class strategically. Deliberately spawn camping an entire match gets old. On one hand, it's players taking advantage of over seen exploits and having a few lol's trolling noobs. On the other hand, it's like 'alright already, we get it, you got the map mastered and memorized, knock it off'.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="Pikminmaniac"]

AI is good for a fun little romp, but they will never ever prepare you for actual human opponents. I'd actually suggest that they might hurt your game because getting used to AI tendencies can be a very bad thing.

HipHopBeats

I would agree, if human opponents didn't camp. While there are humans that will get out and attack the opposite team with gusto, there is always one that will sit in a corner somewhere where they can just rack up kills. 

I can't complain about getting caught out there from a good sniper who plays his class strategically. Deliberately spawn camping an entire match gets old. On one hand, it's players taking advantage of over seen exploits and having a few lol's trolling noobs. On the other hand, it's like 'alright already, we get it, you got the map mastered and memorized, knock it off'.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

I wanted you to make sense of this: "No one plays against bots just for playing against humans."

platinumking320

Jesus guy! No one grinds against bots exclusively to PREPARE themselves to defeat human players. Mastering against AI only prepares you to defeat that A.I. I gotta spell it out 4 you?

Writing nonsensical statements as above goes far to create confusion. Stating that no one plays against bots just to play against humans would make more sense than what you wrote. 

This whole topic is about AI and competitive MP gaming. I have stated that one would play against it in order to get ready for a match. From what I see, you have never played GR in any COOP mode as it is all against AI. I related the Alpha Squad Tournaments as it was competitive MP pitting Coop team against AI verses Coop team against AI and not just a TvT type of tourney that just features humans against humans. Once certainly would practice against the AI in order to beat the other team.

Now, if someone is practicing for a TvT match, of course it does not make sense to just practice against the AI. 

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

I would agree, if human opponents didn't camp. While there are humans that will get out and attack the opposite team with gusto, there is always one that will sit in a corner somewhere where they can just rack up kills. 

HipHopBeats

I can't complain about getting caught out there from a good sniper who plays his class strategically. Deliberately spawn camping an entire match gets old. On one hand, it's players taking advantage of over seen exploits and having a few lol's trolling noobs. On the other hand, it's like 'alright already, we get it, you got the map mastered and memorized, knock it off'.

Exactly. 

[QUOTE="platinumking320"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

I wanted you to make sense of this: "No one plays against bots just for playing against humans."

WhiteKnight77

Jesus guy! No one grinds against bots exclusively to PREPARE themselves to defeat human players. Mastering against AI only prepares you to defeat that A.I. I gotta spell it out 4 you?

Writing nonsensical statements as above goes far to create confusion. Stating that no one plays against bots just to play against humans would make more sense than what you wrote. 

This whole topic is about AI and competitive MP gaming. I have stated that one would play against it in order to get ready for a match. From what I see, you have never played GR in any COOP mode as it is all against AI. I related the Alpha Squad Tournaments as it was competitive MP pitting Coop team against AI verses Coop team against AI and not just a TvT type of tourney that just features humans against humans. Once certainly would practice against the AI in order to beat the other team.

Now, if someone is practicing for a TvT match, of course it does not make sense to just practice against the AI. 

When I said just for playing against humans. I'm trying to say that playing A.I. is more about mastery-of-self, and playing against humans is only the test. One may lead to the other but to me they're two different things that I think one is looking for. 

Maybe if someone dominates a map, then however they prep is probably inconsequential.  But I think to your end a lessSENSATIONALIST highlighting  or a 'hey dude could you elaborate a bit on the 1st sentence' would've been just fine. I don't go piss all over other peoples posts to that extent. Maybe not every post you made came off generally well accepted. Jus' sayin.