Review: Game Of Thrones Episode 4, Season 8 -- Self-Sabotage At Its Finest

"The easiest resolution to this whole conflict would be for Jon and Dany to get married, announce his identity to the whole Seven Kingdoms, and be stronger than ever, together, a united front of Targaryens here to take their rightful seat back."

Close.... But that wouldn't make any sense, as you admitted yourself. Because it's Game of Thrones, as you know, there is no reason Jon and Dany can't struggle for the throne. So the writers, David Benioff and Dan Weiss, are bringing this story in the right direction.

I do, however, like your phrase "no one's managed to come up with any adequate justification for why..." but I, myself, would continue with...

"no one's managed to come up with any adequate justification for why JON DOES NOT WANT THE THRONE?"

MY GOD! Why in the world is he fighting the throne? The writers have not established this. So the contrived nature of Game of Thrones Season 8 is ALL based on the fact that Jon should accept that he is the true King. And if not, then there has to be a better reason than he weeping and sullying over Dany not loving him back... who, afterall, has no claim to the throne in the first place.

I saw the previous post, and due to my appreciation of both this show and the medium it conquered, felt compelled to post for the first time here. It should be known, that Benioff and Weiss, the shows creators, are (likely) completely to blame for this shows demise to mediocrity, not HBO.

It is my understanding, well before a decision to have spin offs, that HBO was willing to throw $ at them to continue the series past where they were aiming to end it (not meaning story, but eps counts and seasons). There is nothing else, imo, to explain why they refused to actually spend, easily another full season or two, to develop the plot and character arcs needed, other than they have been mentally checked out of it for awhile. They also have their own original show they want to develop (google it...I don't know how they will pull off that PC nightmare).

I like to see all sides, and I can understand many arguments for them wanting out (family, other projects, etc) but they could have handed the reins to others. Maybe HBO trusted them...I still did until now. Bottom line, imo, this show was too great of an achievement to excuse what happened here, and is truly ashame. If the info I am presenting is fundamentally sound, I think people need to be aware of why this happened...and that it could have been avoided. I fully admit a lot of this is opinion and speculative, while others don't see the massive quality drops or disagree with my opinion, many do relate to how I feel about it.

I was a pre-hype book fan and praised the show through S06. Around there, as overtly discussed over the nets, I am of agreement the show's quality went down due to the creators wishes to speed up arcs and bring this thing to an end. Until this season, most of the lazy writing and plot holes were forgivable to me. This season...this eps especially, is truly disappointing and the epitome of what I was trying to overlook previously while trusting the creators to end this with the respect it deserves. How hard could that be, after almost 6 seasons of some of the best television written and the ground work laid? Right? Sigh.

I fear what's about to come, not cause of who will die, but because this eps was of such low quality, they lost my trust. Luckily there is just the two left to cringe at, and don't get me wrong, still HOPE that I am wrong, and there is somehow going to be massive plot developments that make all of this season's plot and character choices mean more than the creators truly f'd us all over per my earlier statements.

Unfortunately, if I was putting vegas odds on either, my $ would be on the strongest show we have ever seen (when covering all artistic aspects across the board and budget), is about to fizzle out like it was canceled 2 seasons early and a TWD writer had to come in and write the end in 3 eps based on someone else's leftover bullet points.

Unfortunately, the series is being killed off by a thousand cuts. Reducing the number of episodes for season 8 to just 6 is a telltale sign that HBO just wants to wrap this thing up asap. To me, the whitewalkers were such a crucial part of the show. Obliterating them in the third episode, so easily, seemed ridiculous. Sure, the fans will say, GoT is about the characters, the living characters, well, no it's not. Because with the whitewalkers gone, there isn't much there in the remainder of the character's story line to sustain the level of theatrical intensity that we are so use to in the past. What we have is a rehash of the political intrigue we saw in seasons one and two.

Say what you will, but I thought this article was very spot on.....

Another Very BAD episode...

What where the writers thinking making this session.... this is nothing....

So much was painfully contrived in this episode that it made me stop caring about the series. All I want to know now is how it ends so I'll know what GRRM had in mind (at least when first discussed with the show runners), because I'm not certain he's ever finishing the books.

The show is almost a parody of its own worst moments from the last four years. I might even skip next episode, get the highlights from Reddit and Twitter, then just watch the finale. I do have something I could be doing Sunday at 9PM, anyway.

If Dany wants to issue her dreaded "dracarys" command, she better hurry. She's running out of dragons. This episode could have been called "The Face of Rage."

Season 8 could go down as a big disappointment in my opinion. Episodes 3 and 4 were questionable in many ways. The military tactics being displayed by the forces from the north (or lack thereof) make no sense at all. Everyone standing in front of the gates of Kings Landing in clear range of all the archers and the scorpion weapons mounted on the wall (with the dragon just sitting in the background) is just plain dumb. I guess it makes for good drama though. The writing has gotten sloppy and unimaginative, as if the producers are just trying to get the show completed so they can move on to other things. A sad way to finish off a wonderful series.

yah we seen many sides to dany and she just bad rest of them, Jon is more tempered but dont want the throne and is control by dany to , I think both will die

I see the city being burned and sacked and the imp and being last one standing or maybe is brother

Both Jon and Dany are rash and reckless, neither of them seems well suited for the throne.

The reason Jon and Dani aren't getting married is because she is his Aunt. Insisting that this is the best solution without mentioning their complicated relationship removes the steam from this review. She would no longer have claim to the iron throne. The show is doing a good job of framing this problem - everyone thinks Jon is the hero for riding her dragon, and nobody is acknowledging her contribution - supported very clearly in the scene with the Starbuck's cup. To me all of her subsequent actions make sense. Sure they aren't completely justified: she COULD capitulate, let him take the throne and remain a powerful family contributor. But that's not happening because why the hell should she, plus she has a bit of the T crazy.

It's not so much that the trajectory is disappointing or that they're doing things wrong at all. It's just that after the epic quality of episode 3 it just isn't very interesting. I'm not ready to watch them do their sh**t to each other and we are back to that. Episodes 2 and 3 were great farewells to all the characters, and that is kind of enough.

I just wanna SCREAM to this writer. It's because Danny time and time again showing the traits of a 'mad queen'. Power-hungry bitch! Urrrrghhhhh.. GOD!!!

Sad to see one of the dragon died, but it happens just to move the plot forward. Same reason Rob Stark stupidly butchered several seasons before

"But why? Is that conversation justified? Jon has proved time and time again that he has what it takes, but so has Daenerys."

Seriously? The reason they are beginning to think that Jon would be better is because Daenerys has several times also showed she is highly capable of being the "mad queen." Both have proven to be capable leaders. Only one has proven to also be mentally stable.

You really are a lousy reviewer. You seem to be mad just because the events didnt unfold the way you'd liked and now you are roasting the tv show for things that are actually good.

I've read fan theories that had better ending plot than this... whatever this is. It looks like fan fiction, but if that fan was either a pre-teen or bored elderly housewife. The fact that this season continues to disappoint with each episode is an achievement in itself. They had 2 years to prepare a sensible script and get the show back on the right track, but instead they continued to plunge even harder.

Don't think the show suffers for the past couple of seasons only because of the lack of books. This also seems to happen whenever the creator achieves early success. Over time, he gets surrounded by yes-men and starts to think his shit don't stink. Happened with Peter Jackson and George Lucas. Say what you will about D&D now, but they knew what their limits where in the early seasons. Now they think they are be-all end-all.

It’s odd that Television seems to give some people the idea that the story is written for them. Where the books are just the story and you either like it or don’t. You seem to think that because this show has not ended yet, that you have some kind of say in its rightful direction.

How sad.

This is getting somewhat predictable and banal, Michael.

Believability; how; why; nonsense! Yadda yadda yadda...

I love to actually say it: it's nice to see the butthurt here. I lounge with a wine and consume both the show and my glass of red with nothing but satisfaction. Whilst others 'need' to watch it, but hate it at the same time. I prefer my position--lucky to be alive and well to spectate production like this.

Roll on episode 5!

The giant arrows zipping in from directly where the dragon was looking was real dumb. They should have just had a giant shepherd's crook come in and yank him off screen with a funny musical sting.

You basically nailed in Michael. Well said.

I guess I'll never understand why Hollywood is so clueless most of the time.

Oh well, I realized long ago that GOT would never go in the direction we all want it to. In fact, it goes in the opposite direction!

Man, finally people are pointing out the rubbish this show has put out.

There is something else that is worrying me: the plot is going just too fast sometimes. The episode started slow with the funerals, but after an hour Euron destroyed their fleet in minutes, and then Daenerys marched in one second to King's Landing. Geography, again like in season 7, means nothing.

Also there is a serious lack of military logic, i know it's a series, i don't care if a ballista can easily kill a dragon and destroy ships (that's stupid, but who cares). But damn, i can't stop repeating "siege, SIEGE, S I E G E !!!!", a central part of medieval warfare. The night king could have forced their enemies to starvation or retreat at Winterfell if he maintained a siege. And Daenerys could do the same in King's Landing.

They want to conquer back the iron throne, but the reason why they don't get along is because the dragon queen is getting so pissed off she wants to conquer the iron throne at all costs.

I frankly don't know what you're complaining about, this last season just like pretty much any other season delivers, I know i'm sad too we going to lose the best tv show ever created, but giving out bad reviews isn't going to help anyone.

@Fr0z1ndude:

Hahahaha TRUE !

How is this a review? Isn't the driving force behind a plot the decisions that characters make? so if they all make super intelligent decisions, you pretty much have no story.
I GET complaining that some boneheaded decisions are far away from the character growth we've witnessed. but ... is it? Isn't Jaime still a little selfish? Isn't Jon still more looking for acceptance from his family than any kind of leadership role? Isn't Daenrys a little unhinged?

Besides, we haven't actually seen some of these choices play out - it's that tension that keeps us watching. Will Jaimie join - or kill - Cersei in the end?

But I digress, my original question was... how is this a review??

I don't understand what the author's problem is with this season. I think he is unconsciously down about it ending, so anything other than perfection is going to be met with disappointment. Nothing is perfect. Not even the best episode of the best TV show of all time (you decide what that is).

The Long Night had problems, but every episode had problems. In my opinion, the battle in the long night was the very best Game of Thrones battle of the entire series.

Jon and Dany getting married would solve that conflict, and the dragon queen if alludes to it, but Jon knows that incest is wrong, so therefore he rejects the idea. The fact that the author feels the need to bring it up like it was his idea makes it appear as though he doesn't understand what is happening or it apparently can't remember.

Jamie leaving Brienne to go to Cersie was absolutely necessary. Image how you would have like that plot point to go. It couldn't have happened any other way. Jamie MUST return to Cersie. The final conflict would seem out of place without him there.

Sure, Dany know the Iron fleet would be there, but she didn't know the ballistae where upgraded. She thought they would be ineffective, just like last time with the loot train raid. The show even points it out.

This article is another example in a trend the journalist appear to be taking. Write a controversial article to get clicks. We'll it worked.