How Company of Heroes 2 is Building the "Ultimate WWII RTS Experience"

We talk with Relic executive producer Greg Wilson about the the upcoming additions for CoH 2 as well as the long-term future of the franchise.

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Company of Heroes 2 developer Relic wants to make the most comprehensive World War II real-time strategy game on the planet. It's a lofty goal, but what does it take to create an experience compelling enough to keep bringing players back, especially in the crowded RTS genre? We talked with CoH2's executive producer Greg Wilson about the game's upcoming update introduces and about future plans for the franchise.

A few key highlights you'll find in our complete interview below:

  • The October update hits tomorrow (October 29) at 2PM PST
  • Observer mode will let you watch and save complete matches for reveiwing, learning, and just showing off.
  • New mod tools will let you modify and tune existing content, and change the win conditions for matches.
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GameSpot: You've said the October update is going to be big, but what exactly do you have in store for the game?

Greg Wilson: The October update is in line with previous updates in that and we're seeing a number of bug fixes and a bunch of tuning to improve the core multiplayer experience. But we've also got a couple of features that we're excited to talk about--Observer mode and our mod tools.

Observer mode is a feature that's been asked for from our team and from our community for some time, and we're really excited to be able to deliver it with this update. Essentially, it allows players to jump in and observe any live match in progress. The way it works is, imagine going into the front end, clicking the "Watch" button, and then seeing a list of games that are actually in play already. Then you're able to filter those in different ways like leaderboard ranking, number of observers, or friends playing. Those types of things. Then you jump in and watch that game as though you were there from the first beat.

You have full camera controls, and you're able to see and reveal the fog of war. You're able to switch sides and view the action from any player's perspective. You can pause the game; you can fast-forward it. It's really just a fantastic tool, not only for those players that want to become better at the game by watching different playstyles and tactics being used, but it also empowers our growing [broad]casting community.

What was the main impetus for integrating a feature like this? Has it been the growth of services like Twitch?

It definitely is in response to the excitement around personal broadcasting, but it's also just a way for us to expose the volume of games that are being played to every single player. So often, when you hop into the lobby, you don't necessarily know that there are potentially thousands of games going on, and this is a way for you to get exposed to that.

The game is very intense in terms of the learning curve; there's a lot of stuff going on in this RTS: camera controls, multiple units, build tiers, different strategies, completely destructible environments. The list goes on in terms of the things you need to learn to be effective at CoH2. And so what we're trying to do is get players another avenue to learn the game through watching other people. If they choose to do that through Twitch, that's fantastic. Twitch is great because it gives you a personality to connect with, and you have somebody choosing what camera direction to display, they're chatting with you, they're giving their play-by-play on what's happening in the match from their perspective.

But if you just want to observe the game, if you're already a player who's experienced enough to understand what's going on or wants to learn on your own, this feature gives you that option. You can jump in, and without anyone else talking to you, without anyone moving the camera around, you can slow the game down, speed it up, put the camera where you want. Those are all controls that are at your fingertips so you can learn the game at your pace and break down and analyze the different tactics and strategies that can make you successful.

Is there any interaction with the players built directly into Observer mode or a way for the player to record commentary over their playthrough?

That's where the casting comes into it. A popular caster would sign up to watch a game, and then would stream that feed to his users with live chat and by interacting with the people. But in Observer mode, you're just watching the game packet for packet as it unfolds. Your computer is doing the simulation right along with those other players, which is why you have complete control over the camera. It's not a linear experience, it's very open and dynamic--you're watching the game from the perspective of all the players.

Will you be able to save games and go back to watch specific matches?

Any game that you watch is saved to your local hard drive. So you can go back and watch that as many times as you want from as many different perspectives as you want. Users can also share those save files online, and what we're hoping to do is support different levels of ranking and voting so we can keep some of the most popular watched games of all time online so you can always come back in and watch those. That's something that we're looking to do in the future.

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The October update is also going to introduce some significant modding tools to the game, right?

Company of Heroes 2 launched back in June last year, and about six to nine months later we introduced our World Builder tool, which was the first content creation tool we released to the community. We saw an amazing response to that, and today in the Workshop on Steam we've got over 2,500 maps that have been generated by the community and uploaded and shared. We've been working hard to continue down that path, and with the October update we're introducing two new tools--one is the tuning pack tool, and the other is a win condition tool.

This is one step further down the path for us creating the ultimate RTS platform for our users, where they're able to build, share, and play the content that they want to. Not only the content that Relic provides, but they'll be able to combine it in new and interesting ways from their own perspective and share that with the Steam Workshop.

The tuning packs allow players to change the dynamic variables that make up a specific ability or specific squad, and make them do different things. It's a way for somebody to create a realistic damage mod or change the number of units in a specific squad. Everything is possible with the tuning pack in terms of manipulating the specific data that makes units unique in CoH 2.

The win condition is another tool that we're really excited to introduce, and it basically gives you the ability to manipulate, at a base level, the conditions in which the game is won. A simple thing like that is you can change the victory point counter to be something different. Rather than a 500-point game, you can make it a 5,000-point game.

One step below that, and this is what it's doing under the hood, is it's getting you access to our scripting tools. This allows you to run a custom script on any map in the game while you're playing. This allows you to change up the way the game is played, and what we've seen working closely with our alpha community in testing out these features and tools with us, is that they've created new custom game modes with the win conditions. It's a lot more powerful than it sounds in terms of changing the basis of how you win or lose the game. You're actually running a custom script; you have access to a tremendous amount of functionality and power through the scripting language that we have at Relic. And it gives you the ability to change things like the way units spawn; the up-rates that they have; the starting resources and the way that they acquire resources. The list goes on and on, but it essentially gives you the ability to customize and create new game modes.

This is just step one in our goal to become the ultimate WWII RTS platform, and these tools allow you to redefine and introduce the existing content in different ways.

Anything the community has created so far that's really surprised you?

The game modes that we've seen so far have been really impressive with the win condition tool, and we hope that that's just the start. This is just step one in our goal to become the ultimate WWII RTS platform, and these tools allow you to redefine and introduce the existing content in different ways. What we're planning to do down the road is support the ability for people to have their own content down the road--potentially adding their own models or doing their own UI, doing their own audio, and things like that.

The most surprising thing that we've seen to date with the limited exposure that the alpha community has had is just some amazing game modes that have come out of nowhere. We're going to be coinciding the release of those on the Steam Workshop with the actual update. But we're hoping this is just one step toward allowing people to make full conversions and really taking what we consider to be one of the most advanced RTS engines on the planet and using that to create whatever type of content that they think is exciting.

One of the game modes we've seen is centered around being a little shorter in duration for users, so it's about a 15- to 20-minute experience, and it's designed to give people access to more, and I'm using air quotes here, "toys" immediately without having to go out and capture resources or do any sort of map control. It's very synced up to the time of the clock as opposed to your ownership of resource points and control points. Essentially you start out with an infantry tier and you have full access to a bunch of infantry depending on what faction you're playing. And then when the next tier unlocks, you immediately get access to medium tanks and artillery. And when the next tier unlocks, you immediately get access to heavy tanks and artillery. What that creates is a fun and frenetic game pace where there's lots of action going on, lots of destruction. And you get to see all the candy that is the end-game of CoH2, but you get to see it early.

What do you feel has lead to the success of CoH2, that allows you to continue to release this kind of free content?

We've had more updates with CoH2 in the last sixteen months than Company of Heroes 1 saw in its entire lifetime.

The passion and commitment that our fans have to this genre and this franchise is amazing. There's just so much passion in RTS, and strategy games themselves are hard to master. So as you get exposed to great quality content, you see the depth in all the systems that are being used. It really shows you that there are legs within that experience. It shows the value in investing your time and your money to getting into a franchise like Company of Heroes or other RTS games.

From a business perspective, we're committed to long-term support of our userbase. So we've had more updates with CoH2 in the last sixteen months than Company of Heroes 1 saw in its entire lifetime. There have been a number of features added, there have been a number of maps added, there have been a number of commanders and skins added. These are all free things. We're not trying to monetize those; we're trying to build that initial investment for players beyond the date of purchase. We just want to create a great place for people to come and play.

What is the tipping point for when you decide to stop creating content and move over to a sequel?

You sequel when you need to. But we have a tremendous road map ahead of us, and we've got a really engaged community that we see long-term potential to continue growing with.

What kind of things do you have lined up for that future roadmap?

We're going to continue supporting the franchise. If you look at the pattern that we've exhibited over the last sixteen months since launch, you can see that continuing. You're going to see more multiplayer content, more single-player content. We've got our next big installment of our single-player campaign launching in November called Ardennes Assault, so there's some amazing stuff there.

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But it shows that there's a long-term road map that we're following. We're using not only our gut instinct as developers and our community input, we're also using telemetry data to help us shape and inform the decisions that we're making. We're really trying to make sure that we're making content that appeals to the customers that are playing the game. That's critical for us, and the "games as a service" mantle is about providing great-quality content that is relevant to our consumers on an ongoing basis. We're just going to keep that cycle going.

The update is hitting October 29 2PM PST, but do you have any other announcements for the near future?

One thing I also wanted to mention is that we have a big tournament deal with the ESL that's going to be coming up towards the end of this year. And that's just another example of how we're building out the franchise and the Observer mode and features to support that initiative.

No specific start date, but it'll be a six-month tournament across Europe and North America.

Has esports affected the game's direction at all, or have you tailored the game in any way to support esports competitors?

It's been a discussion of ours, for sure, and one thing that's really exciting is that these tools tie back into creating that platform for our userbase. For example, with the tuning packs, if you wanted to create a specific rule set and a specific set of tuning for your tournament, you could do that. And the power of Steam Workshop and our integration with it would enable you to share that content with anybody that you want to with just a couple clicks. The days of zipping things up and sharing them over email or the Internet or being concerned about downloading unsafe content are behind us. What we're trying to do is, rather than make those decisions for those groups, we're going to give them the tools and the capability to do that themselves.

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Observer mode is obviously a big part of the plan for expanding further into esports, but has CoH's seen a lot of growth recently in that arena?

I would say yeah. There's two things really; obviously, we think we have a great game. There's a bunch of tactical and strategic depth there. But it's also in large part due to the efforts of the guys who do Sunday Night Fights and CoH2.org and other fansites that have really put a lot of their own personal time and effort into promoting the game and helping us to broadcast how great this game is. The effort and time that we put into every asset really shines when you have someone that's passionate about talking about it.

We do live weapon records. We do live vehicle records. We have insanely detailed models, physics, and textures. And our environments are realistic and fully destructible. Not only that, but when you layer that in with the innate understanding that we have around how certain types of weapons interact with certain types of vehicles, and you get a really intuitive experience. When you have guys with rifles going up against a tank--you know in your core that that's not a good matchup and those guys are going to be in trouble. As soon as they pull out a bazooka, you again, know that that's a good matchup and these guys can hang in that fight.

We think CoH translates incredibly well to a spectator sport, and our fansites have really helped to expose that through their own passion and effort.

How do you feel about the additions to Company of Heroes 2? Is there anything missing that you hope gets added in soon? Let us know in the comments below.

Justin Haywald on Google+

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Avatar image for rimakiss
RimaKiss

My mum in law recently got Cadillac CTS Wagon by working part time off of a macbook... you can try this out....

=========>> << LINK REMOVED >>

Avatar image for R4gn4r0k
R4gn4r0k

Sure, Relic may have messed up at the start with the amount of DLC but people should give them another change.

Like they said: they have done more updates for this game in a year and a half than COH in its entire lifetime, and there is no sign of them stopping anytime soon.

This shows the dedication from Relic and they have really improved the game over the years. I still play it on a daily basis and I love it to this day.


Keep up the good work Relic, can't wait to see what you have in store for the franchise next.


(PS: thank you for keeping the RTS genre alive)

Avatar image for Baraq
Baraq

I really enjoyed coh2's beta. I thought the tanks felt like tanks and the infantry felt good as well. Buggy and not perfect but I thought it felt very coh1. Then with the full release it was a mess. Tanks were made of tin foil and infantry became super soldiers. After a few patches I really started to like the new balance and thought it was done well. Then they fucked it all up with a "series" of "balance" patches. The game became unplayable and I uninstalled it.

Fast forward to now I decided to give it another shot. So far It feels better but I am still not convinced. I liked the new armies for the most part but it still not enough to bring me back. Time will tell if they can get their crap together.

Avatar image for GSyyqqq3211yyGS
qqq3211

" what does it take to create an experience compelling enough to keep bringing players back, especially in the crowded RTS genre?"

I beg your pardon? We must be talking about a different RTS genre, because the RTS genre in our universe is all but extinct, since the xbox 360/ps3 era began. Today, besides Relic and Creative Assembly most RTS developers are dead.

Avatar image for R4gn4r0k
R4gn4r0k

<< LINK REMOVED >> It's not consoles fault. It's DOTA and Mobiles fault.


DOTA took over the RTS genre on PC. And many great RTS developers are now developing mobile games...

Avatar image for Kjranu
Kjranu

<< LINK REMOVED >> I'm pretty sure Starcraft 2 is still all the rage.

Avatar image for jollyboy00
jollyboy00

Great news. Hopefully we'll see Blitzkrieg Mod for COH 2

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lethalpi

What a bunch of hate. Great work Relic, I love your game!

Avatar image for rohitv2312
rohitv2312

CoH 2 sucks and everyone knows it.....its not even relevant anymore....With a depressing and completely untrue campaign, a broken multiplayer and huge graphic bugs I don't know how are they going to create the most comprehensive RTS. War Game is much better than the pile of rot provided by CoH 2. If ever you play as allies you will be frustrated to death because of the sorry state of balance. Its has been the worst AAA to date when you take in that its a sequel, an AAA game AND the fact that over a year has been passed now.



How Company of Heroes 2 is Building the "Ultimate WWII RTS Experience". Really? how much more obvious can you make it? You ALREADY assumed that they are building the greatest RTS huh?
Lets look at the conversation - What do you feel has lead to the success of CoH2, that allows you to continue to release this kind of free content?- I mean its just what you call as 'scratching your friend's back', assumed comments, flattering backhanded praises which are made public to fool readers, and no question about the flaws in game.
This is pretty much like those promotional articles you see in the internet marketing some weight loss pill or some other BS. Its no wonder people accuse you guys of being corrupt. You just don't, in any case, write something as promotional as this without giving the reader some sorta disclaimer. Either the interviewer is extremely biased towards the game, or that GameSpot has been charging something for this promotional article. Both ways its plain wrong. And don't say - "Its our opinion" BS. If it is, THEN MAKE IT CLEAR. Don't write universal statements like "Ultimate RTS experience". Unfortunately though, people will read the above article, make a decision about purchasing the game or the DLCs, to which point its fine. BUT ITS A MISGUIDED PURCHASE for them which may end up in some players getting frustrated by the game and would waste their money upon something they might not need. Seriously get your act together GameSpot, at least act according to a professional journalist's ethics.
Your readers deserve that - they deserve complete honesty about the premise of the article as much as they deserve the article itself.
Avatar image for MAD_AI
MAD_AI

Those mod tools seem lacking, what not a model importer exporter so that we can real total conversions?

Avatar image for grenadehh
Grenadehh

Um, no.


You mean ignoring the fact that the Germans are still OP and can spam units faster than Americans. Or the fact that the Americans have the most expensive basic infantry and literally can't build it without first building its commander. Because only the Allied army was reliant on command structure, am I right? That should gimp their faction while everyone else can throw 6 conscripts out within 2 minutes and dominate the field. Despite being in MUCH better shape than Russia and Germany at the time. You know, remember how we kind of manufactured all that stuff to ship to the french and british and russians while still fighting the war on three fronts? How WW2 saved our economy while the iron curtain destroyed Eastern Europe and Russia didn't do too well either?


How about the fact that Russian conscripts are more powerful than actually trained (comparatively) Americans with semi automatic rifles that were QUITE good for what they were?


Or how about how a Puma can destroy a T34?


Oh did I mention assault pioneers with STG44s that are RIDICULOUSLY powerful to the extent you literally don't need to build volksgrenadiers and can just skip to tanks? Because every last soldier on the Western Front had an STG44 in 1944, look it up - it's total fact. You should definitely be able to build as many as the population cap allows.


Yep, definitely the ultimate WW2 experience. I wouldn't choose it over Blitzkrieg or Men of War solely because of its graphics, not at all.


Games that are completely unbalanced have no business in esports.

Avatar image for entan
entan

<< LINK REMOVED >>

Perhaps you've been playing another game than I did those past few months, because your post is full of inaccuracies:

1. American riflemen are accessible right at the start, no commander is required. Yes, they're about 15% more expensive that grenadiers but also more durable and much more deadly at mid and short ranges.

2. American commander system is actually a great boon to that faction. At least you get a very useful unit when you tech up. For OH/SU, teching up is pure loss of resources and time until you can actually get some units from the next tier. It's not really cheaper because of that either.

3. Conscripts aren't nearly as powerful as riflemen, just more numerous and spammable. Which is quite accurate, historically speaking.

4. Puma will get owned by T-34 if it gets into range. It's a fragile, mobile unit that needs to keep the enemy at range to be effective. It's also meh against infantry, unlike T-34.

5. Try to spam sturmpioneer and skip volks completely. Any half decent player will massacre you. You'll have no map control, no AV, massive reinforcement costs and reinforcing will take forever. Good luck.

Avatar image for mc68ec040
mc68ec040

Such a damn shame that CoH 2 that is of such low general quality is getting all these updates instead of CoH1, which has fantastic voiceacting, great animations, sounds and non-cartoonish graphics.


How many people actually enjoy the indie cartoonish look & feel of CoH 2?

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Freedomination

".. the crowded RTS genre" ? Was this article made in 1998?

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Smosh150

So I am confused about how the modding tools will work, will it be able to add in new models, textures, etc or is it just for tweaks and what not? The latter would be quite a disappointment and would show that they have no intention of something that may hinder their DLC's profit(ridiculous pricing).

Avatar image for mihndoepayne
mihndoepayne

when they add Annihilate to multiplayer like coh has it'll be the "Ultimate WWII RTS Experience"

Avatar image for grenadehh
Grenadehh

@mihndoepayne Victory point is for bitches. I refuse to play anymore until annihilation is a standard type.

Avatar image for andypark87
andypark87

Sadly, the RTS genre isn't really the place for successful esports anymore. You can see that this is obviously true given the demise of Starcraft 2, a game that had the right backing and culture surrounding it at the start. And while we'd all like CoH2 to be the next successful RTS in esports, it simply won't happen because there aren't enough people playing it.

Avatar image for jack00
jack00

At launch the game was a mess, then it got better for a while, and after a series of patches the game became just more and more unbalanced, I have very little faith this game will ever be properly balanced. (I'm strickly talking about MP here.)

Avatar image for PinchySkree
PinchySkree

Imagine being able to rejoin a game in progress that you were disconnected from? That would actually be some innovation in the RTS genre, recovering from a disconnect or game crash (Although Age of Empires II in 1999 had a save on crash feature where you could make a new game and load it)

"We've had more updates with CoH2 in the last sixteen months than Company of Heroes 1 saw in its entire lifetime."

This is because you released an unfinished game. This is the main thing that really hurt my opinion of this game, along with paying for commanders, that terrible UI and the over sensitive forum moderation.


I would like to see improvements to skirmish such as AI upgrades. Check the stats on Company of Heroes 1 news page in game - Skirmish games dwarf pvp.

Typo: "A few key highlights you'll fine in our complete interview below"

Avatar image for sumoman23
sumoman23

<< LINK REMOVED >> You can load multiplayer saves in Sins of a Solar Empire. You can save whenever you want and it also automatically saves every so often.

Avatar image for PinchySkree
PinchySkree

<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> I actually own that game and have had 3 long games, they never crashed so I never discovered it.

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Tr4newreck

i really hope they create a special mode for e-sports... and not change the whole game towards it...

Avatar image for andypark87
andypark87

<< LINK REMOVED >> There is a special mode for it. It's called multiplayer.


Avatar image for XxXDarkness0XxX
XxXDarkness0XxX

i love CoH i only play the first one cause 1 it looks better to me and 2 CoH2 lags like ass for me but they are probably the best RTS games i ever played but i wish i would not get owned by everyone on these games :'(

Avatar image for entan
entan

Great stuff! There was a lof of fuss in the first months after the game's launch from folks who expected that the game would be almost immediately polished and balanced as well as CoH1 was after years of patching. There was some crying that the original game was better or deeper because of that. I guess some people no longer remember CoH1's "flavor of the month" period, when every patch something was overpowered (mass AT guns sniping infantry, anyone?). Anyway, as was expected, the game evolved in quite a spectacular fashion and is now at least on par with the quality of CoH1 - and that's a high praise indeed. It could still use some tweaking, but for the most part the better player wins (no matter the faction) and gameplay is very enjoyable. I'm already looking forward to DoW3 (it is happening right? pls?).

Avatar image for rohitv2312
rohitv2312

<< LINK REMOVED >> So you mean to say, relic should continue making the same mistakes they did in CoH 1. They should keep 'reinventing the wheel' and make shoddy balance and frustrating gameplay for years together before balance is somewhat achieved? I would call such a game as early access beta, not a full release. and definitely not assume it to be the world best RTS either, coz its not finished.

Avatar image for entan
entan

<< LINK REMOVED >>

They didn't make the same mistakes again, actually. CoH2 at launch was in a much better shape than CoH1 during that period, or for that matter DoW1 and DoW2 (Tyranids were absolutely ridiculous in the first few weeks). The only glaring imbalances early on were soviet cars with flamers or snipers inside and later on german flamer halftracks, but that was corrected pretty quickly. The factions didn't feel distinct enough at first however, and there was little incentive to use certain units. They also went too far and too fast with DLC commanders early on, which made balancing the game very tricky. They did correct those issues within a few months though. No RTS game in my memory was ever in a state where everyone agreed it was balanced (other faction than the one you play is always imba - tru fax!), but CoH2 is way better than previous games by Relic at the same moment in their life cycle.

Avatar image for Elche58
Elche58

<< LINK REMOVED >> I would give my left nut to get DoW3, but I am afraid that Sega bought only CoH license with Relic and Warhammer 40k went somewhere else. So I don´t expect Relic to make another DoW game. There is some shooter planned from W40k universe I think...