DC Universe Online Q&A: Marv Wolfman

Comic fans anxiously awaiting SOE's upcoming DC Universe Online have another reason to hope that the upcoming game will be doing right by its source material today with the announcement that Marv Wolfman is part of the creative team working on the game. The acclaimed veteran writer will be lending his considerable talent to writing story arcs, quests, and in-game events for the ambitious MMO. We got the chance to talk to the seasoned writer about how he joined the team and his approach to the ambitious project.

GameSpot: OK. So first question, how'd you get involved?

Marv Wolfman: Oh, well I've been writing games for a couple of years now. And obviously I've been at DC since the '60s, in one capacity or another, and the combination seemed to make sense. Plus, I live out here in LA so that I can deal with a lot of the other people who are involved with the game as well.

GS: So what games have you written for?

MW: Most I can't talk about because they're not out, or they've been put on hold or--you know how things are. The only one I can talk about--and unfortunately, because it didn't come out great, but it was Superman Returns.

GS: Oh, OK.

MW: Yeah, it wasn't quite the game we expected. But these things happen when you're doing movie tie-ins and such.

GS: Of course, the bigger question is, how familiar are you with MMOs? Do you play? Did you do research once you got tapped for this?

MW: Well, I've been playing games for years. I mean, you could joke and say starting with the Atari. But I currently have, for instance, a PlayStation 2, I have a Wii and an Xbox 360, and there are games constantly on all of them. So I've been playing for a long time. In terms of the MMOs, I started with City of Heroes when I first started, I mean, like, within a week of it starting, and I've played Warcraft.

GS: Ah.

MW: So between the two of them, I've played the, you know, some big ones. I haven't played all of them, I just don't have the time when I'm playing the other stuff. But, as I say, with City of Heroes I was on it for five, six, seven months, something like that, and Warcraft on and off.

GS: Yeah. Well, those pretty much cover a lot of ground, so you should be pretty good.

MW: Yeah, that's what I think. And my wife works over at Blizzard, so we have a very game-oriented family here.

GS: So tell us about your role on DCUO.

MW: OK. First off, the overall story was conceived by Geoff Johns. Geoff came in working with everyone over at Sony and DC, and came up with a really incredible overview story which fits in with all the different types of characters DC has, from the superheroes to the detectives or the tech characters, the gods, the magicians. You know, all of the different genres of characters that DC uses on a regular basis--somehow managed to come up with an overarching story for it that allowed you to keep building on to it. My job is to take Geoff's rough outline of where it can go and start to bring it down to playable games and very specific events, and create much more of a tight-knit storyline coming from that one. So it's moving it to the next step and individualizing the play and the games.

GS: How different is the experience for you from writing for comics and the comic world per se? Because, as you said, you have to make this game-friendly.

MW: Absolutely--

GS: As opposed to the crazy stuff you could do in a book.

MW: Well, the big difference in a game--not an MMO in this particular case, because you actually have a storyline, but in a lot of games that I've worked on--is that this stuff is not always linear. And also you don't have a situation where--I'm sorry--you have a situation where levels can be dropped at the very last minute, which--and the story may be dropped as part of it. In an MMO, which is a continuing game that keeps building, that doesn't happen to the same extent that it allows you to actually tell a story. The story is clear from the very beginning. So, in that case, the linear type of storytelling I've done in comics or in animation or in TV or on other places, books, comes in handy. But the main thing is that being a game player myself, I know what I like. I know that parts that keep me excited when I'm on an MMO, because there's also a lot of running around and such like that. So, what you try to do is really come up with intense storylines within it. It's not just going out and you're given the mission where you have to beat up a monster or something like that. These have actual story purposes. The events mean something. You'll know what they mean. They're not a random type of "Oh, let's just keep you busy."

GS: And how challenging is it--given the game's "timeless setting" is probably a good way to explain it, because it's not quite completely in sync with DC continuity--to create content? It's almost like it's set in an iconic moment in DC continuity. Does that force you to change your approach, in a way?

MW: Well, not really. What it allows you to do is to incrementally make the changes. DC continuity is constantly changing. By having someone like myself and Geoff Johns and Jim Lee involved, as well as some others, it means that we're plugged into what's going on. So as we come up with the new stories, as we come up with the new concepts, we can determine the difference between, say, a storyline that may last three months in a comic, or something that's going to last a year and a half. And the ones that are going to last a year and a half, or are the big-event type stories, we can easily plug in and make sure our continuity mirrors what's going on at DC.

I think it's important that a game like this is being written by the guys who are actually there and who are going to take the time to make sure that it fits in with the continuity as best as you can. And failing that, in some places, definitely the characters will be exactly right. So you don't get that a lot in a lot of the games. You get them altered in order to fit into a different type of scenario. Here it won't be.

GS: So, speaking of characters, because of the somewhat timeless state of the game, do you have carte blanche to grab whoever?

MW: I don't want to say that I have carte blanche, because that means that I could just go in there and say, "Hey, I'm using Congo Bill," and everyone's going to look at me like I'm insane.

GS: Except for the one guy that likes him.

MW: Except for the one guy who likes Congo Bill, and he's going to want Congorilla. So I think it's more like we talk over the stuff, we work out which characters make sense. There will be some incredibly well-known ones and there will be some characters that, you know, I'm going to have to research. But I don't think it's a matter of just having every character available. They pretty much are, but certainly in the beginning what you want are characters that people are going to know, but at the same time introduce other characters to them. So that people who are DC fans and have been following DC for the last number of years, as opposed to fans from the past, they will recognize the characters. But the people who are coming in new, who have never read the comics and are primarily gamers, they're going to come in and see these interesting characters.

You know, I liken it to some other games such as Warcraft where you may not know all these people, you're being introduced for the first time. But the difference is, of course, you're being introduced to a hero who has a long backstory, and that backstory will impact on the story itself. So we'll be introducing a lot of new people to DC characters, but they'll see they're just not ciphers; these are characters that have been around for a long time so that you can actually play character off of them.

GS: Can you talk about some characters that you were interested in making sure were in the game?

MW: Frankly, the list that was given to me up front had everybody I was really interested in doing. So there's no specific ones. But having done Superman once--but it had to fit into a movie and it had all the problems--I'm really interested in doing Superman correctly, in terms of the DC Superman and the character who, to me, is still the best character in comics. He's my favorite character. I've written him constantly from the point I got into comics to currently. So certainly him.

In fact, the trinity of characters--I've really never written Wonder Woman, but finally she's becoming the Amazon goddess type of character that I really like, because I love writing mythology stories. And, of course, Batman. I mean, you can't do much better than a character who is that intelligent, a good fighter, who can link the story pieces together, who can investigate, who can be a primary source for a lot of the story, and it works--it's not just a character sending you out, but it's a character who actually is going to think his way through as well.

GS: Are there any villains that you are excited to include?

MW: Yeah, but I don't think I'm actually supposed to talk about them, because we want to not give away a lot of the storylines up front. And I think that what you need to know is that the best villains are going to be there. And the stories are going to work with those characters. One of the villains I know right off the top is going to surprise you completely. But I think that a game like this, if you warn people in advance, they're looking forward to it, rather than being surprised by it. And, personally, I like to be surprised every so often when I'm playing. They know that the best DC villains are going to be in it, so that's not even a question. You can put a list and you'll probably be, you know, 99% correct. But I don't want to really talk about that and give away something that we may want to have as a surprise.

GS: Sure. And one of the things that you mentioned was just the level of freedom to kind of, like, tell stories and have events in the game and, you know--I'm talking to somebody that might have had a little something to do with one of the very first Crisis, right?

MW: Yeah, a little bit.

GS: Just a tiny bit. So we're wondering, do you see yourself writing stories or do you see the game supporting something of that magnitude over the course of the game?

MW: I can guarantee you from the overview that Geoff wrote, it's huge. And what's nice is, it's a story. So the minute the player is plunked down in the game and starts it, they will know that there's a plot. They will know that there's a story. You're not going to wander around or, you know, 25 levels before you suddenly realize there's a story there. You're going to know what your position is in this story, you're going to know why a lot of it is happening. You're going to know what's going on. And that will be the beginning.

And there are changes along the way, of course, there's going to be surprises that mean where you're going in one direction, you may have to slingshot in a completely different one. But you're going to know that there's a real story and what your involvement is in it actually affects the story. And that's a little bit different from a lot of the other type games where you can go for a long, long time before you even realize that you're doing more than just hunting down a monster or a mutant or something of that sort. You're going to know upfront what the stakes are to some degree, and the stakes keep building as it goes along.

GS: We're curious to hear--as someone that is familiar with MMOs and has sampled them from time to time, and having clearly more insight into what's in the game than the average person, what do you feel that the game is bringing that the MMO genre needs?

MW: I'm not an expert, because I haven't played long enough in a lot of the others. As I say, I've played for about six months with City of Heroes and I play on and off with Warcraft. And, you know, I'm still hunting down spiders and stuff there, because I can't seem to progress that much, but I don't have a lot of time. But what this game's doing is it is giving you a story, right up front. And it's not an ambiguous one. It's telling a story about the DC characters. Their personality as well as their powers actually affect what they'll do. You're going to be with those characters, you're not just alone. They'll be side by side.

And I think the fact that we're telling the story up front, where you're participating, is really one of the most important parts of it. There are others, they'll be a little less, you know, "Where am I and why do I have to kill this thing," and not knowing how it fits into the greater good. We're going to know that stuff for the most part.

GS: How do you feel about the way the storytelling is working in the game? Because it is open-ended, someone may not trigger a story sequence or a story experience exactly the way you might hope. How do you feel about how that's going to work?

MW: Well, so far, so good. I mean, I'm happy with it. I've been a writer all my life, but I've also been a game player for the last 20 years or so. And so I'm very, very comfortable with gameplay, even though I'm not a very good one, unfortunately. I'm still stuck on levels of God of War--or God of War II, rather.

But, you know, the way you write a game is somewhat different because what you're doing is you're telling a story in a little bit wider area. You're not in control of every moment. But that's OK, because in a comic book, for instance, I may write a sequence on the Teen Titans where there's three pages of fight. But the story is still there. And if we do our job right, you're going to be in control of those three pages of fight. But the story is still there. So it's there, but it's told somewhat differently. It's told less controlled panel by panel, but more control in a sense as you create this vast world. And you hopefully--and again, as the game comes closer and closer to reality, we'll see how well it works--but the idea is we will guide you, and you'll go through all the things that the heroes do.

But, you know, in a sense, that's sort of like life. You know that there's something out there, and you're not quite sure what you're doing. And you sort of just move through it and hopefully you'll pick up the storyline and join in. And the fun will be, you're in the midst of those fights that I normally write and choreograph panel by panel. Now you're in charge of those fights. But the story's still there. So, you know, to me it's a mixture of the two. I just step back during the action stuff and let you have the fun. And meanwhile, I'm guiding you in the story parts.

GS: One aspect of an MMO is to be open and welcoming to the new user, who might not be as steeped in comic lore as others. For people that are not intimately familiar with DC lore, or even the lore of some of the characters, are you taking into account--are you just trying to make sure that you're not going to lose anybody?

MW: No. It's very much a game, as I mentioned, that if you know DC, you'll know that the continuity is correct and you'll know that the characters are correct. So that's fine. But if you don't know the characters, you're being introduced to them to some degree or another. I can't give you specifics, because we're still working on it. It's still early in many ways. But the idea is that you're going to learn who these characters are because of the storyline and how they're introduced and what we make available to you. So, you know, this is all assuming that somebody is going to go through a game who's never heard of Superman. And I tend to doubt that. Have they heard of Adam Strange? Probably not, though you introduce Adam Strange. And you introduce him in a way--I'm not saying he's in it or not in it, I'm just picking a character out of thin air who has been around for 50 years but people who don't read comics may not know.

So it's that sort of thing. You're going to introduce characters to the players and you're going to make sure that the players who already know the character won't go, "Wait a second, that's not the way that character acts, that's not the way that character is." That's Geoff's job and my job and Jim's job and the other writers who will come on as the game continues, to make sure that it's that. But for the new players, they will learn the characters, and what they'll see is, if they bother to look at a comic later, they'll go, "Oh, it is the same character." We haven't changed it just for the sake of a game. But they'll get into the character hopefully because the character's interesting.

GS: Do you have any sense of how much material you're producing for the game? In a comic, you know you've got X amount of pages to fill. But the blessing and curse of an MMO is that pages can be added whenever.

MW: Yeah, I know. I'm going down to Sony in two weeks, and we'll be talking a lot more about all of that stuff. So I can't give you an answer right now.

GS: What attracted you to the project?

MW: Well, I've been enjoying writing games so much. Some of the ones that I've done I was brought in before there was even an idea, just for the character. And some of them I've been brought in much, much later when the whole game is there and we're essentially writing dialogue or something. Others I created the plot for.

But I've been enjoying that sort of--having to rethink as a writer how you do this. Just because I play games doesn't mean that I understand everything about them. So I really was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Now, a couple of years later, I'm given an offer to work on characters I already love and have been writing, you know, since 1967 in one way or another, when I first sold my first comic. And it's for an MMO, which I've not done, which means I'm writing something that can be huge. And, you know, that's like a no-brainer. You say, "Yeah, that's good."

Plus, one thing I love about writing games--and this is purely as a writer, this has nothing to do with the material or anything else--when you write any one thing for a long time, like, anything that's linear, you start--if you don't fight it--you can easily start to feel it's a little bit rote because-- r-o-t-e in that case--you've done it before. With games, you can't do that because the stories aren't told that way, which means it requires you to actually concentrate and think and figure out, not only is it a good story move, but is it going to be a good game move? Am I going to enjoy it when I'm sitting there with my controllers and, you know, button mashing and going, "Is this fun?" Or is it going to be something that's, you know, not.

So the idea of being able to be part of this and hopefully make it to be something where you're sitting there and going, "No, I don't want to break for dinner," I would be so happy if that's the case.

GS: Thanks for your time.