Discussion

65 comments
john_doe2
john_doe2

I think this concept would be really cool for a horror title. Just imagine how much more frantic you would feel reloading every bullet into the magazine of your gun while at the same time trying to outrun a horde of the undead.

squidshoggoth
squidshoggoth

In my eyes, realism isn't the way to go. Receiver is a cute idea, but games are meant to be fun. not "realistic"

veryDERPY
veryDERPY

unless you're totally retarded, operating a handgun isn't that hard. this game is actually harder. i just fumble with the keys

hystavito
hystavito

If most games did have realistic guns, a bunch of groups/people would go crazy saying they are dangerous because they are like gun tutorials.  

Imagine if somehow Receiver ended up getting noticed by some politician or some organization, and there's a story in the press about this game that teaches kids how to operate firearms.  I know it's been around for a long time already and that's not going to happen :), but it's the kind of thing they would love to attack.

valium88
valium88

...or we could go outdoors and shoot a real gun and get some perspective and even better ...get some air.

oOhedzOo
oOhedzOo

remember we just saw the VR Arcade? just what if..

oOhedzOo
oOhedzOo

I played this game and I approve of it. I just wanted more stuff in the game. I hope it gets bigger and harder.

zenstrata
zenstrata

If you want a real experience, go buy a firearm and visit one of your local ranges.  Its a fun and useful hobby to get into.  And it could potentially save your life.

Munstable
Munstable

The most unrealistic aspect of most gun games by far is the lack of encumbrance. Characters just seem to pull the guns and bazookas out of their asses every time. Just look at RE6.


It will be nice to have a realistic gun game for a change. I'm talking limited ammo, weight/stamina factor, kill only if necessary thriller type of game.

silverwings21
silverwings21

This game reminds me of Trespasser: Jurassic Park.

Unfallen_Satan
Unfallen_Satan

I am not convinced that any video game control scheme in existence today can adequately simulate the actual operation of firearms; it just sounds so clumsy. The game is actually more than that, or maybe not exactly that. The game mechanics trailer on Steam seems like a collection of numerous gameplay mechanics that potentially make FPS more realistic and are featured in the most hardcore war simulators: no-HUD, perma-death, high accuracy ballistic physics, and so forth. In terms of realism, pressing six (or however many) keys in sequence is no more realistic than pressing r. In fact, I think competently trained soldiers should have all aspects of their firearm's operation so drilled into them that they body reacts almost automatically when their brain sends the command "reload" or "r." Not to mention regularly taking out the clip of your gun or manually reloading bullets into clips in the middle of a firefight (heaven forbid) seems suicidal. I can't imagine real soldiers do that under normal circumstances.

Smosh150
Smosh150

@squidshoggoth That depends on your perspective as many see realism and things people consider unnecessary but can change the gameplay substantially quite fun in games such as ARMA and other simulators, but ofc for games like Battlefield, COD, etc I completely understand that it would be quite... stupid to add such in. Though I really don't see this system being implemented in sims either unless a system like VRcade becomes practical for personal gaming.

VRDave
VRDave

@oOhedzOo 

Yeah, that... We (VRcade) are building some props that have many of these more complicated reload schemes. When our current prototype M4A1 is complete, you will have to drop the clip to reload, clear it when it jams, etc etc. We're definitely planning on offering this for police and military training simulation, but we'll have to see how the general public reacts and embraces this level of detail.

Of course when we build a game using these sorts of things, we're going to have to make it like most arcade driving games where you pick "manual" or "automatic" before you start playing, so if you aren't gun savvy  you can just let the game take care of it. You will have to wait for the reload to happen, just like most games, but if you get really good at reloading manually, you can get a leg up on the competition.

Unfallen_Satan
Unfallen_Satan

@oOhedzOo They could certainly make gun controllers that not only look and feel like the real thing but also simulated other details like reloading, safety, even jamming. They could also make simulated magazines that independently kept track of bullet count. The tech exists today, I think, though who'd want to go through that much trouble for a gaming attraction. I am sure any virtual military training programs already use all available tech to enhance realism.

Unfallen_Satan
Unfallen_Satan

@zenstrata For FPS, as most of them deal with war, I think the only way to get the real experience is to enlist and be shipped off to a real war. Of course, one potentially dies instead of saving one's life, but that is the nature of warfighting. It's an interesting question: do so many people play FPS because they are fascinated with guns or because they are fascinated with military combat.

Unfallen_Satan
Unfallen_Satan

@Munstable A few games already do that. I don't know how far Arma has come, but as early as Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis and Rainbow Six 1, guns were restricted to one primary weapon + one sidearm, limited ammo (or only what you bring to each mission), and high risk of death or mission failure associated with firing your weapon careless in earshot of enemies. There was a time when a Gamespot review even criticized... Delta Force 3 I think, for allowing instantaneous switching of weapons. I guess those kind of games aren't popular anymore.

Smosh150
Smosh150

@Unfallen_Satan Exactly, the motions are all gone through in military simulators and some other games, what is the point of having to press different keys which would actually take a lot longer than doing it in person imo and is a lot more  clumsy, until the point of VR system as I said below there is no need for this to be put in military sims or other FPS's, as long as it goes through the proper steps once r is pressed as you can still see the proper function of the process. Don't get me wrong though, this system fit well in Receiver due to the simplistic nature of receiver, this didn't have to be done with enemies chasing after you and such, as long as you had a full mag before hand if you were being pursued by one of those tazer bots, then you would be fine, in other situations you could hide and reload and not have to worry about being attacked.

Smosh150
Smosh150

@Unfallen_Satan Well at the rate VR is going, such would not be a hassle in the years to come, not like they would need to make a seperate controller for each weapon, I understand that many weapons are different, but they could just make like an M4A1 or something and use that to simulate most non-bolt action rifles, ofc there are plenty else out there, Recoiless Rifles, Pistols, grenades wouldn't need one, I think some snipers could do with just using a M4A1 controller in place of a sniper controller, etc. Anyways I believe that the military uses such controllers, though not as detailed as you said, but they use similar things for VBS 2. I would gladly pay money for something as you said no matter the cost.

Smosh150
Smosh150

@Unfallen_Satan @zenstrata Many play it for both in some cases, the guns provide a really interesting perspective on the game when they are detailed really well in all aspects ex Receiver as it is a simple game, yet many are drawn to it for the gun mechanics, and as for military combat, some just really enjoy the structure of the military branches, the strategy, COC, etc example being many ARMA players. 

Munstable
Munstable

@xsonicchaos @zenstrata actually it is if you live in the U.S. I've done it before and it was quite an experience.

Too bad firearms are getting so much ill attention from the media though. It's just like with every technology, bad people will always find ways to do bad things with it. I'm sure smart phones are actually causing more side effects and killing more people with its radiation but we never hear about it.

zenstrata
zenstrata

@xsonicchaos @zenstrata Yep!  I grew up in the country and have been around firearms as long as I can remember.  My family considered firearm safety and operational knowledge as an important life skill.  When I was young I would regularly carry a rifle with me while hiking through the wilderness areas near my home.

As it turned out, this knowledge has saved my life and the lives of others around me twice.

I think of firearms like a seat belt for life.  When you get into your car and go driving down the road, you put on your seat belt.  Not because you are afraid you are going to get into an accident.  But because you appreciate the security it provides.  You hope you never have to use it, but if you get into a situation where you need it, you are extremely happy to have it with you.  A firearm is like a seat-belt for life.  You don't go looking for scenarios where you may need to use it defensively, but it is Always better to have one and not need it, then need it and not have it.

The world may have changed, but human nature has remained the same.  There are always people out there who will be wanting to do others harm.  If someone approaches you in a violent fashion which would you rather have in your hand?  A cell phone? Or a pistol?  You can call the police if you want, and they will get there - and they will take a picture of your dead body.  But they can't get there in time to save your life.  The first line of defense is you.

Smosh150
Smosh150

@Unfallen_Satan @Munstable ARMA provides a realistic representation of encumbrance, especially when the ACE mod is being used and too much running or too much weight can cause your person to stumble, fall, or blackout when using ACE. Though there is an exception in ARMA 3 mind you it is in Alpha, you seem to be able to carry about 10 First Aid Kits on your person itself no problem, but just about everything else regarding encumbrance in 3 is simulated pretty well.

deathwatch28
deathwatch28

@Smosh150 Changing mags for an assault rifle is a faff even with training. Take out mag from gun, open pouch, take out new mag, put new mag in rifle, release the bolt. close pouch so other mags don't fall out while moving Faff.

Black_Pander
Black_Pander

@zenstrata Where did you find those facts? purely out of interest. 
I live in one of the parts of the country with one of the highest crime rates, and there is quite a large gap between what your figures are suggesting, and my personal experience. 

Daelyn75
Daelyn75

@deathwatch28 @zenstrata 

I follow UK news buddy and you are full of it. When was the last time people were stabbed and shot in London? EVERYDAY.

zenstrata
zenstrata

@deathwatch28 @zenstrata So you want the United States to be more like Great Britian eh?  Lets look at the numbers there.

The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.  The UK has the 5th highest robbery rate, the 4th highest burglery rate.  But more importantly the EU named Great Britian as the "Most Violent Country in the EU".

In the UK there are 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people.  That puts it way ahead of even South Africa (which has a violent crime rate of 1,609 per 100,000 people).

The United States has a violent crime rate of 466 per 100,000 people.

What this means is that while people like deathwatch28 may insist that the US can learn from Great Britian - well maybe we can.

(It should be noted my information is a few years old here, but the crime rate has actually reduced even further in the US as far as I know, in the last few years.  Funny how that correlates with the increased gun ownership in the US over the last few years isn't it?)

zenstrata
zenstrata

@deathwatch28 @zenstrata your case is resting on ground which does not exist.  You need to compare overall violent crime rates.  Not just 'gun crime' rates.  To only look at gun crime is a misleading viewpoint because it does not take into account ALL violent crime.

If you truly want to keep people safe, shouldn't you be caring about those who are purposefully harmed by objects other than firearms as well?

If you truly want to 'rest your case' then you need to focus on overall crime rates, and find methods which reduce those.  Or your case is not resting, instead it is merely a festering pile of misleading half-truths or outright lies.

zenstrata
zenstrata

@one1zero0one @spammehardo @xsonicchaos @Munstable You are fooling yourself if you think that it is possible to limit violence by limiting peoples access to particular items.  The reverse has instead been proven to be the case.  Great Britian for example has now officially been named the "Most Violent Country in the EU."  Your violent crime rate is higher now than even south africa (long seen as one of the most violent places on the planet).  Compared to that - the US violent crime rate is not even in the top 10.  In fact the US is 28th in terms of violent crime rates in the world.  One easy source to see this, just go to youtube and type into the search bar "Ben Swann Reality Check Piers Morgan" and watch one of the 4 minute videos that pop up.

The only thing that they succeeded in doing is making the average citizen disarmed and helpless when the criminals come calling.  This is proven through your own officially reported violent crime rates before and after firearms were confiscated in that country.

What this really comes down to is people viewing the propaganda their media spews at them and not ever actually going to check the factual statistics that are freely available through their own government organizations.  Because it is easier to believe the public lie than it is to go research the facts.

At any rate, I am not going to go into this more.  If you want to know the truth all you have to do is go look for the information I suggested earlier.  It is out there, easy to find, freely available.  Just not what you will see on the evening news - because it does not fit the agenda of the people in power.

one1zero0one
one1zero0one

@spammehardo @xsonicchaos @Munstable Im happy in the knowledge that children aren't allowed to purchase knives and people are not allowed to walk the streets carrying one.

Im also glad i don't live with so much fear of others carrying firearms that i feel compelled to do so myself.

ViciousRDS
ViciousRDS

@deathwatch28 @zenstrata I just don't understand why people think that gun laws are going to stop gun violence from happening. I mean, people are aware that there are already much more stringent laws against homicide, right?

So it is believed by some people that a person that wants to kill someone is going to draw the line at breaking laws that say they aren't supposed to obtain a gun illegally? Gun laws don't affect criminals in any way when there are such readily available guns on the black market, usually at cheaper prices than you get in gun stores.

Nor do I understand why people relate gun violence to the general availability of guns. In Switzerland, nearly every household has in its possession an assault rifle for the militia laws and they have very low gun violence rates. The problem in the U.S. is a psychological and cultural issue.

spammehardo
spammehardo

@deathwatch28 @zenstrata "It is illegal sell a knife of any kind including cutlery and kitchen knives to anyone under 18"

What a bastion of freedom you must have. What a joke of a country.

Munstable
Munstable

@deathwatch28 @zenstrata When was the last time you thought seriously about an issue before arriving at conclusions fed to you by the mass media?

I guess then the UK is a safe haven that all people should migrate to or aspire to become? Lucky you.

zenstrata
zenstrata

@Munstable @xsonicchaos @zenstrata Not wanting to get too much into politics here, but if you look at violent crime rates in any region of the world, you will find that the rates of violent crime always goes up after firearms were confiscated from the general population compared to those same areas before they had their firearms confiscated.  This is true everywhere in the world where this has occurred, Even on island nations.

The whole idea of 'gun control' is really about people control.  It is about a privileged few exercising control over others by forcing them to surrender their firearms.  This really is done completely without regard for the actual levels of crime or death involved, instead it is about putting the general population in a state of helplessness because politicians are frightened of their people and want to have as much control as possible.

The trick here is not to look on 'gun crime'.  That is a misleading statistic.  You need to look at overall violent crime rates for regions to really get at the true consequences of gun control laws on the population of a region.  There is an American professor who has spent many years collating this data.  You can find his results by going to youtube and typing in "John Lott More Guns Less Crime" into the search bar.

His video is worth a watch if you've got the time and are interested in discovering more about this issue.

FutonSentinal62
FutonSentinal62

@zenstrata @xsonicchaos For the most part you are correct. I'm sure there are many stories of people preventing crimes because they had a firearm. Naturally, there isn't much attention given to those stories. 

I read an interesting article about Detroit. In summation; since the city is broke, budgets had to be slashed and cuts made. The police department suffered some losses. Many residents recognizing this and hearing about it looked to themselves for protection. Justifiable killings rose 79% and was 2200 above the U.S. average.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097467/Vigilante-justice-rise-Detroit-justifiable-homicides-jump-79-cent-year.html


Munstable
Munstable

@deathwatch28 @Munstable @xsonicchaos @spammehardo 

Aha...and you know where the banks get the money to loan to you in the first place? They don't, it's just a type-in number on their computers.

Guess where they get their authority to do this? The banks own the government my friend.

And normally when a bank gets into financial crisis, they get bailout money from you and me. It's just that simple. It's not a conspiracy theory but a fact.

deathwatch28
deathwatch28

@Munstable @xsonicchaos @spammehardo Normally a bank owns your house and you get a loan from the bank in the form of a morgage that you pay back after a predetermined amount of years. If you can't pay the bank they take the house as you can no longer afford it.

Munstable
Munstable

@xsonicchaos @spammehardo @Munstable I'm fine with giving up the rights to firearms when all governments do the same.

Governments should never possess any right that the people do not have. Actually governments should not have the right to take away your house even when you are in debt.

With your argument, I think the people should take over the white house right away.

spammehardo
spammehardo

@xsonicchaos @spammehardo @Munstable What could i say to a idealistic ninja to change his mind?

As for tyranny anyone could see our government wanting more control over it's people. They use buzz words like (terrorism, killing machines) and other tactics to scare people into complying into giving up their natural rights for some sort of dream world of safety. Sometimes you have to just think decades in the future and maybe think how bad it might get if the economy got much worse. Just take a look at other countries (UK) you're not even allowed to carry a knife to protect yourself. It's absolute insanity to ban such a basic human right.


xsonicchaos
xsonicchaos

@Munstable Oh wait, you mean like when the tyrannical government comes to take away your house because you can't pay you're debts? That's when you need to use your firearms. Give more details on what kind of tyranny are you expecting from your government.

Munstable
Munstable

@xsonicchaos @zenstrata People need to understand the origin of the 2nd amendment is to protect the people from tyranny of the governement. Who said anything about arming kids and teachers with guns?

If you think tyrannical governments is a thing of the past, think again.

However, it's also true that the government no longer needs violence to have control over their subjects. But given a choice, no governement likes controling a population with guns.

xsonicchaos
xsonicchaos

@zenstrata@xsonicchaos I can assure you that I could kill you with a kitchen knife before you can even notice I'm there, and not just me, probably a homeless guy can do that too. Also, little children aren't allowed to carry firearms inside a kindergarten. And neither are teachers. And for good measures. Care to share more of your lovely pro-gun propaganda?

Munstable
Munstable

@zenstrata@xsonicchaos

"Always better to have one and not need it, then need it and not have it." 

That's exactly what Woodrow said to Newt during his first cattle raid...if you've seen Lonesome Dove. Love that show so much.

Smosh150
Smosh150

@deathwatch28 @Smosh150 Yea IK, but I was just saying I think it would be simpler to do it in real life than to press keys, ofc I would prob suck at it if I were to try it as fast as they do it in games, but I am still saying it is "easier" than button pressing as that requires you to take your eye off of the screen, hold this key while pressing this, then press this, then this, it is just a mess for a keyboard. I wouldn't mind learning how to do it well for a video game, I can't say anything for others, but that is just how I feel. Don't take what I mean as "oh the process is simple, np anyone can do it" I just think that it could be simpler if the steps were instilled into your mind and you knew exactly how to do it.

Unfallen_Satan
Unfallen_Satan

@deathwatch28 @Smosh150 See, more steps that a real soldier have to go through in actual weapon usage. No doubt you trained extensively to do those things correctly and efficiently even under fire. All games that have any gounding in real life, whether a shooter or a business simulation, bypass a large amount of nut-&-bolt operation that real professionals in the field do on a daily basis. If they didn't, players would be laboring as in a actual job, without doing an actual job.